Today we are hearing about the few thousand marching in Jena, LA, over race relations.
But where was the MSM last weekend when around 100,000 marched in DC to stop the Iraq war? Check out this Link to learn more about the events of last weekend.
TheZoo
Every man must decide whether he will walk in the light of creative altruism or in the darkness of destructive selfishness. ~Martin Luther King, Jr.
TheZoo 
100,000 is good.
Now we need a million or so to keep Bush from invading Iran.
There is another big one coming up in I think October. I will find out when. Hubby was talking about it because he wants to go.
Because there weren’t 100,000; more like 10,000. And there were enough counter-demonstrators that the press would have felt awkward not mentioning them as well.
Iran won’t be invaded. Selectively bombed, maybe; invaded no.
What Ever Happened To Peace On Earth
By Willie Nelson — 2004
There’s so many things going on in the world
Babies dying
Mothers crying
How much oil is one human life worth
And what ever happened to peace on earth
We believe everything that they tell us
They’re gonna’ kill us
So we gotta’ kill them first
But I remember a commandment
Thou shall not kill
How much is that soldier’s life worth
And whatever happened to peace on earth
(Bridge)
And the bewildered herd is still believing
Everything we’ve been told from our birth
Hell they won’t lie to me
Not on my own damn TV
But how much is a liars word worth
And whatever happened to peace on earth
So I guess it’s just
Do unto others before they do it to you
Let’s just kill em’ all and let God sort em’ out
Is this what God wants us to do
(Repeat Bridge)
And the bewildered herd is still believing
Everything we’ve been told from our birth
Hell they won’t lie to me
Not on my own damn TV
But how much is a liars word worth
And whatever happened to peace on earth
Now you probably won’t hear this on your radio
Probably not on your local TV
But if there’s a time, and if you’re ever so inclined
You can always hear it from me
How much is one picker’s word worth
And whatever happened to peace on earth
But don’t confuse caring for weakness
You can’t put that label on me
The truth is my weapon of mass protection
And I believe truth sets you free
(Bridge)
And the bewildered herd is still believing
Everything we’ve been told from our birth
Hell they won’t lie to me
Not on my own damn TV
But how much is a liars word worth
And whatever happened to peace on earth
Here is the next big demonstration (I think):
http://www.unitedforpeace.org/
Wrong.
There WERE 100,000. Look at the picture. Does that look like 10,000 people to you, filling the street as far as the eye can see?
And as for the inbred right wing dirtbags chanting for more blood and horror in the middle east, they made little impact, because they knew if they got in the way the crowd would just roll right over their illeducated warmongering half wit hillbilly selves.
Brownshirt cowards who hand over their civil liberties because they’re soooo afraid of some tiny backwards nations in the middle east, who posses NO long range weaponry, NO blue-water Navy’s and NO technologically advanced convetional armies.
What a bunch of cowards the right wing faggots are. A bunch of simple minded inbred backwoods hicks, who are such big cowards, they can’t live in a free and open society.
Well I say lock em all up. Put em in steel panic cages and let them cower.
We’ll call the little worms when its safe to come out.
And as for Iran being “selectively bombed”, you’re forgetting that Russia and China, are not just going to sit back while you murdering mutherfuckers kill another half million children.
Keep playing little soldier boy in the middle east, and you morons might find more war than you know what to do with.
Tell us how you really feel, bartlebee.
Don’t hold back on us 😀
-Wayne
Republicans love war as long as we’re fighting some country that can’t possibly defend itself.
Its kind of like how republicans used to love to fight in school. They love to pick on the smaller defenseless kids, and that to a republican is what being “tough” is.
But when someone their own size steps up, oh then they’re Mr Diplomat.
THEN they’re all for talking.
Pussy’s. Every last goddamned big mouth tough talking one of them.
😐
Oh, sorry Wayne.
Did I say that outloud?
So Mopenshaw, were you at the rally or are you just repeating what Rush Limbaugh told you. And I would be fine hearing about the counter rally if I could have learned about the rally itself.
We didn’t hear about because the the administration cherry picks what we are allowed to see. You’re obviously old enough to remember when the protest against the Viet Nam war were televised.
Yeah Bartlebee I think you’re still sugar coating it. Tell “mopenshaw” how we all really feel.
Fuck the counter rally. Bunch of inbred neocon warmongering goosestepping bootlickers.
What does America need with a bunch of chickenshit cowards who are afraid of tiny backwards countries 6000 miles away and seperated by two oceans, and who have NO BLUE WATER NAVY, NO LONG RANGE AIR FORCE, and NO LONG RANGE WEAPONRY OF ANY KIND??!!!???
America doesn’t need cowards like this.
Hows that?
Better Bart.
Where’d mopenshaw go, you had ALL the answers a minute ago mope, now you’ve run off.
Oh yea, the fucking Iranians are all gonna climb into their tiny brownwater navy patrol boats, and sail over here to get us.
Those who don’t drown that is, 100 miles out.
What a bunch of fucking wimps.
Someone just needs to tell them to grow a pair.
Okay now that that’s over thanks for the info muse I want to know about the next rally.
Never mind their boats have a range of about 300 miles.
I imagine they’ll swim the other 5800 miles, huh?
Alright. I’ll go away now.
I feel better now anyway.
http://www.crooksandliars.com/2007/09/20/gold-star-father-who-lost-son-in-iraq-allegedly-beaten-by-members-of-pro-war-group/
Gold Star Father Who Lost Son In Iraq Allegedly Beaten By Members Of Pro-War Group
That’s right Bart, we have to go bomb Iran otherwise their navy will join with the Iraq navy and all be paddling up the Mississippi to toss one of those bomb out on the shore, KABOOM.
bartlebee sez:
It’s S.O.P. for our “liberal media” to underreport figures of people in rallies like this by about a factor of ten. It’s easy to see where mopenshaw got his figures from.
Thanks for the link Jen, were the guys who beat this father arrested on assault and battery charges? I bet nobody was even arrested.
Gold Star Father Who Lost Son In Iraq Allegedly Beaten By Members Of Pro-War Group — nwmuse
So this is how Republicans really support the troops?
By assaulting surviving family members?
Unbelievable.
I’m sure mopenshaw gets all his statistics from the same place, Limbaugh or O’Reilly or some other neocon nimrod pulls them out of his ass. And dumbasses like mopenshaw have to parrot everything these idiots say.
were the guys who beat this father arrested on assault and battery charges? I bet nobody was even arrested.
Its ok if you are Republican. /snark
gee, this one has me really pissed
Sure Wolverine, just the way they supported Cindy Sheehan’s son by lambasting his mother after he gave his life for this country. Just like they support Pat Tillman by fragging him and then lying to his family about the whole incident.
I’m right there with you Woverine.
Ok, after following the C&L link and then from there to the GoE (gathering of eagles)link…..sheesh, what a bunch of maroons…both sides.
The GoE guy ‘liberated’ the pic of the Marine from it’s ‘place of dishonor’ (on the coffin) and was intending to put it in Arlington “among his other fallen brothers” or some such crap as that. — I didn’t make that up, I swear. Dude needs a quaalude.
That guy’s something like 60 or so. He’s a good distance away, and the guy gets tackled(!) from behind by the GSD (gold star dad) and is promptly pulled away. He (the gsd) then bites a guy! Yeah, do that and you’re gonna take a beating, no matter who you are.
Sorry, no pity or support for either party from me, they’re both idiots.
TripMaster Monkey
September 20th, 2007 at 3:09 pm
It’s S.O.P. for our “liberal media” to underreport figures of people in rallies like this by about a factor of ten. It’s easy to see where mopenshaw got his figures from.
Clearly they can’t count. I know what a 10,000 looks like and its not a big crowd. Hell you see more than that at a football game.
10,000 would have filled about half a city block. This crowd was a massive throng however that stretched out as far as you can see.
Chances are, it was MORE than 100,000 GOOD Americans there.
And maybe a couple of thousand warmongering dirtbags.
Shayne
That’s right Bart, we have to go bomb Iran otherwise their navy will join with the Iraq navy and all be paddling up the Mississippi to toss one of those bomb out on the shore, KABOOM.
Yea will its gonna be a long paddle on JetSkis.
sgthiggins
September 20th, 2007 at 3:31 pm
Sorry, no pity or support for either party from me, they’re both idiots.
Good Sarge, cause we ain’t looking for pity.
We’re looking for good Americans who know what facisim looks like when they see it, so as they told you in boot camp, either lead, follow or get the hell out of the way.
BTW Sarge, how’s your boy doing?
Hope all is well.
sgthiggins
September 20th, 2007 at 3:31 pm
Sorry, no pity or support for either party from me, they’re both idiots.
Good Sarge, cause we ain’t looking for any pity.
We need good Americans, who know what facism looks like, so like they told you in boot camp, either lead, follow or get the hell out of the way.
Ok, I’ve tried to post a comment twice now but it doesn’t show up.
Is someone censoring comments here?
God I hope not. That would be a dealbreaker for me.
Ok, well I can post anything but this one comment, which indicates censoring.
At TPZoo?
If you’re censoring here just tell us, so I dont’ waste any more of my time.
sgthiggins
September 20th, 2007 at 3:31 pm
Sorry, no pity or support for either party from me, they’re both idiots.
Good Sarge, cause we ain’t looking for no pity.
We need good Americans, who know what facism looks like, so like they told you in boot camp, either lead, follow or get the hell out of the way.
Thanks Bart,
He’s been sick the past couple of days, but so are my wife and I. It seems to be going around but it’s always worse for him. I updated his page not too long ago….Zooey made me. lol
sgthiggins
September 20th, 2007 at 3:31 pm
Sorry, no pity or support for either party from me, they’re both idiots.
Good Sarge, cause we ain’t looking for any pity
We need good Americans, who know what facism looks like, so like they told you in boot camp, either lead, follow or get the hell out of the way.
sgthiggins
September 20th, 2007 at 3:31 pm
Sorry, no pity or support for either party from me, they’re both idiots.
===
Good Sarge, cause we ain’t looking for any pity.
We need good Americans, who know what facism looks like, so like they told you in boot camp, either lead, follow or get the hell out of the way.
Ok, theres my comment. Was it the em tags that stopped it I wonder? Or a TPZoo censor, who thought the Sarge was too fragile for a little ribbing?
If it was a censor at TP, trust me, I think the Sarge can handle it.
either lead, follow or get the hell out of the way.
Depending on the situation, I have to do all three at different times.
What the right wingers are doing is the exact same type of bullying that the SA under the dircetion of Hilter and Rohm did to leftists in pre-war Nazi Germany.
The SA would show up in smaller numbers at political rallies, but they’d pick out groups of leftists, and attack them. The leftists of course, being there to condemn war avoid fighting to retain what they think is the public perceived upper hand of civility and passive resistance.
What needs to happen I’m afraid however, is for a crowd of leftwingers to beat the living shit out of any right wing group who tries to single out and attack a left winger or group of left wingers. The crowd needs to turn on them, and beat the mutherfuckers with their signs until the goosestepping SA pricks back off.
There such a thing as passive resistance, when it comes to the law. But the neocon warmongers? They’re just citizens like us, and no group of left wingers should ever let one of their own get beaten again.
Its one thing to be peaceful and civil and orderly.
Its another thing altogether to stand by while one of your own gets his head cracked by a bunch of neocon goons.
If this had been 1970 and that handful of rent-a-cops at the University was torturing a student with a taser, they would have beat the shit out of those cops. The black panthers didn’t put up with any shit.
The far right wingnuts are acting exactly like Hitler and the SA, in pre-war Germany. Hate speech, fear mongering, bullying of peace activists and the singling out of a religious race (the Muslims) as a theat to the nation.
We see all the signs, like one party domination in the government, increased survellience on private citizens, the removal of Habeas Corpus.
We have ALL the ingrediants we need now to become a full fledged Totalitarian Dictatorship.
All we need is another good war to heat it up so we can serve it up.
So tell us Sarge. Are you really with Homeland security? Are you really here just to spy on us?
Come on. I won’t tell anyone. I promise.
If not, then could you tell me again what it is you do stand for?
What is your purpose, you, a stateside Military officer with access to the federal network, in doing here with us bunch of tree hugging insurgents?
Doesn’t the Pentagon frown on you frequenting far left lib blogs like this?
You know I luv ya Sarge, but your presence here seems somewhat, suspect. After all you’re no liberal fan, thats for sure.
What possible motive could you have for being here? Its a mystery to me.
What needs to happen is a group of left-wingers armed and dressed out like the riot cops, needs to stand face to face with the Storm Troopers.
We need to remind the userpers of this country that we are not sheep. We are the power of this country. And we will not cow to their lies anymore.
“Power concedes nothing without a demand. It never did and it never will.” Frederick Douglas
Well I wouldn’t go that far Willy, yet.
I am just saying there is NOTHING wrong in defending ourselves. When we go to these peace rallies and a bunch of skinhead neocon warworshiping gun loving tobaccy chewing war supporters gang up on one or two libs, the rest just stand by and say things like “oh my, how could they?”…. “someone should do something…oh my”.
How about shoving a picket sign up their ass?
There is nothing wrong with defending someone from being beaten by a crowd of cowardly bullies.
And they are cowardly bullies, because notice they always go after the lone guy, and theres always 6 of them piling on top.
Remember the guy who got the snot kicked out of him by a bunch of Macca’s SA force at an Arlington Hotel? Remember that?
Remember the smiling, smug face of the thicknecked fat brownshirt as he slammed the kids head into the ground, as they ALL piled on him? Remember seeing him smile? I saw it. And its WHO THEY ARE.
They’re cowards, who only find strength in numbers, JUST like the SA did in pre-war Germany.
sgthiggins says “Sorry, no pity or support for either party from me, they’re both idiots.”
You “liberate” a picture of my fallen son, you had better expect more than a bite. That seems like a strange comment there sgt. I have to admit.
“There is nothing wrong with defending someone from being beaten by a crowd of cowardly bullies.”
And there is nothing wrong with defending the freedoms of this country from all enemies.
Think about it. With the Enabling Ac… err… I mean the Patriot Act, the government and authorities are now IN BLOGS, listening and looking for activists.
Names, IP’s, speech patterns, ALL being recorded and stored by the Governments little wormspys, who think they’re serving some “greater purpose” by spying on THEIR OWN COUNTRYMEN.
I realize decent guys like Sarge don’t believe that this is true, but not only is it true, they’ve already ADMITTED to it.
Bartlebee,
Sorry about your comments being filtered out. We have an automatic filtering system, Akismet, that is part of the WordPress package. I don’t think we can disable it, and there is very little we can do to modify it. Akismet has its own mysterious criteria for identifying “spam”, which I am not privy to.
Sometimes an Administrator is not immediately available to rescue your comment. I suggest, when this happens, that you try to remove as many HTML tags as possible from your comments, as these tend to be prime targets for Akismet editing.
😐
I told Zooey not to let me in here.
It’s very true Bart. They know lies only work for so long, eventually the truth will come out.
It did in Germany, and in Chile, and in Egypt under Nasir. And it will here. When it does, you think these people will just give up and run away? fuck no. They have their starter empire and they are damn well going to keep it.
Egreggious
September 20th, 2007 at 4:24 pm
Bartlebee,
Sometimes an Administrator is not immediately available to rescue your comment. I suggest, when this happens, that you try to remove as many HTML tags as possible from your comments, as these tend to be prime targets for Akismet editing.
Hey, there is someone there. Thanks Eggregious!
I didn’t think anyone would edit me …yet. I haven’t even gotten warmed up.
http://willyloman.wordpress.com/2007/09/16/who-am-i/
here is an article I did on this very subject, Bart.
Homeland security is simply a pre-event staging of weapons and manpower.
Hitler did the same thing after the Reichstag fire.
Only he called them “Gestapo”.
Yeah, do that and you’re gonna take a beating, no matter who you are.
Sorry, no pity or support for either party from me, they’re both idiots. – sgthiggins
Perhaps your right sarge, but then why are there charges against the kids in Louisiana. Certainly those kids were just as antagonized by those nooses hung in the tree.
These are not “left wing streches”. (Sarge, you reading this, or recording it?)
Anyone who knows anything about the rise in Nazi Germany would see these DIRECT PARALLELS to the events leading up to 1939 and the invasion of Poland.
And we did the same thing in Chile in the early 70s to establish Augusto Pinochet with the CIA to test out Milton Friedman’s privatized Neo-liberal ecconomy.
It took Hitler just over 7 years before he convinced the people to let him invade Poland, after he was appointed Chancellor of Germany, and seized power. And once he got going, he used WAR to continue that power. (“today Poland, tomorrow the World!”).
So Bush’s cry is similar. Today Iraq, tomorrow the entire Middle East!
They’ll either convert to our form of government, or die.
Bush’s “FINAL SOLUTION” for the Muslims.
Bartlebee did you see Colbert talk about Generation Ixnay last night, that sits around and watches one of their own get attacked. I’ll go look for the tape.
Bartlebee, there’s only one subject that gets you censored around here. If you read the “About” section on the right you’ll see what that is. Sometimes posts get spammed because of links and then an administrator needs to rescue it out of there. Just let us know it’s missing. We routinely check for those but sometimes we miss one.
I agree with mopenshaw in the sense that Iran will be bombed. Russia and China will take a stand…but thats gonna be all.
Israel really needs Iran to be diminish in its military force because they need to establish themselves in Palestine (with Fatah), Lebanon and Syria now that Iraq is virtually a void.
And since Hezbollah showed how ill prepared for a long war Israel is, the Iran bombing seems a good option.
Oh, civilians…well, they should be smarter and just go.
Shayne
September 20th, 2007 at 4:36 pm
Bartlebee did you see Colbert talk about Generation Ixnay last night, that sits around and watches on of their own get attacked. I’ll go look for the tape.
Oh yea, I never miss Colbert.
Its true. Back in the day when I was in school, kids wouldn’t let a small group of cops like that hand out discipline and torture to a single defenseless student. Those cops would have found themselves overrun in a matter of moments as soon as they started tasering a kid once he was already subdued like that. He wasn’t even doing anything other than being a little obnoxious.
But in the new republican police state, the police think they have the power to beat, cripple or kill, any citizen who won’t bow to their almighty authority. It started after 911, and it hasn’t changed. LOOK wrong at a cop, and find your head bashed in. Hell the fucking cowards tasered to death a 72 year old man at the airport for petes sake, and no one did NOTHING!!!
Its got to stop.
We don’t need protection from terrorists.
We need protection from our own police and government.
juancristobal
September 20th, 2007 at 4:39 pm
And since Hezbollah showed how ill prepared for a long war Israel is, the Iran bombing seems a good option.
Nahh.
A better option is to lock up all peices of shit like you in steel cages, where you can’t murder anyone else.
Thats a really good option.
“Pieces of shit like you” I certainly hope that is sarcasm Admin
So what did I say a few minutes ago?
Shayne
September 20th, 2007 at 4:39 pm
Bartlebee, there’s only one subject that gets you censored around here. If you read the “About” section on the right you’ll see what that is. Sometimes posts get spammed because of links and then an administrator needs to rescue it out of there. Just let us know it’s missing. We routinely check for those but sometimes we miss one.
Well I didn’t like that condition.
I come for the trolls.
I am a troll.
I’m a “freedom troll”.
Bart, I’m pretty sure Juan C. was being sarcastic.
Shit I’d rather be killed by a terrorist, then live in a chickenshit police state where cowards in fancy uniforms walk around and bully the massess into submission.
Fuck that.
Live free or die.
Shayne
September 20th, 2007 at 4:45 pm
Bart, I’m pretty sure Juan C. was being sarcastic.
Oh was that Juan C? Sorry. I should have put that together.
Sorry Juan. Too fast on the draw I guess.
I’m sorry I’m so worked up today folks. I needed a good lib blog to vent my spline, and TP’s still not working for me.
It really looks like Bush is going to bomb Iran, and its got me all worked up.
fair enough….
You know that kid Andrew Meyer is still in jail? And the St. Pete Times TBO ran an article saying he was yelling and screaming at Kerry and the cops did nothing wrong.
How do you fight back against news services that will simply lie through their teeth about anything they want to?
It’s frustrating.
CNN covered the demonstrations. And you gotta love what Kathleen Koch had to say:
http://thinkprogress.org/2007/09/18/cnn-demonstrators/
I wrote to CNN a few days ago about this lousy reporting, but they have not bothered to respond to me.
You notice she says “they were scrambling over the barricades”? She says this as they run footage of the cops pulling two guys over the barricades.
“who are you gonna believe? Me or your lying eyes?”
They will just lie about every little thing these days and there is no accountability.
Pretty soon they are going to be telling us there is no war in Iraq. Never was one.
Its not a war. Its a massacre.
Survivor recalls Blackwater shootings
By BUSHRA JUHI, Associated Press Writer
1 hour, 47 minutes ago
BAGHDAD –
Lawyer Hassan Jabir was stuck in traffic when he heard Blackwater USA security contractors shout “Go, Go, Go.” Moments later bullets pierced his back, he said Thursday from his hospital bed.
“No one fired at them,” Jabir said of the Blackwater guards. “No one attacked them but they randomly fired at people. So many people died in the street.”
Wow. What a heroic story. What great American heroes those right wing Blackwater guys are.
Someone hand me a plastic flag to wave.
bartlebee,
No homeland security guy here. Just an E-5 truck driver relegated to a desk job…albeit temporarily. No recording going on here. I imagine the pentagon frowns on a lot of blogs, not just those of ‘tree-huggin’ insurgent’ types. lol I know I’m no liberal-lover but I’m no lock-steppin’ neocon, either. I come here because I can enjoy a debate…without some Joker harassing me about my son. The comments are on the right topics, and although I don’t mind being blasted for a comment, it isn’t personal or troll-ish.
willyloman,-
You “liberate” a picture of my fallen son, you had better expect more than a bite. That seems like a strange comment there sgt. I have to admit. —– I don’t fault him for tackling the guy from behind. But if he thought for even an instant that tackling a 60 yr. old guy from behind was going to go over w/o a hitch…he aren’t too bright. Frankly, I’d have tackled the guy too, but I would have expected to take a few lumps for it. Supposedly (according to the GoE site) the GSDad was not arrested bc the GoE guys didn’t press charges.
Shayne,
The ‘noose-hangers’ are more guilty of a “hate-crime” in my opinion than the six on trial. But that isn’t a good enough reason to free them. No accountability? wrong answer. probation…I’m cool with it. But if the noose-hangin’ rednecks were named (and suspended) then why aren’t they being charged w/ a hate-crime? bc the DA said he could not find any law that had been broken!
DA (looking behind the fridge): Nope, no broken laws back here. You’re free to go, boys.
That guy should be looking for a new job…yesterday! And the kids who hung the nooses should be tried for a hate-crime.
😐
Why don’t the Iraqi’s love us?
They hate us for our Freedom?
Freedom to storm into their house at night and steal their shit..
freedom to shoot at them from the back seat of our Lincoln Navigators…
freedom to kill indiscriminately without regard for rule of law and punishment…
freedom to come into their country and steal their natural resources.
you know, our “freedom”.
bartlebee,
No homeland security guy here. Just an E-5 truck driver relegated to a desk job…albeit temporarily. No recording going on here. I imagine the pentagon frowns on a lot of blogs, not just those of ‘tree-huggin’ insurgent’ types. lol I know I’m no liberal-lover but I’m no lock-steppin’ neocon, either. I come here because I can enjoy a debate…without some Joker harassing me about my son. The comments are on the right topics, and although I don’t mind being blasted for a comment, it isn’t personal or troll-ish.
Good answer. Took a while, but good answer.
Guess the PR boys at DHS are a little slow these days ay? 😉
Anyway you can bet your ass no one will say anything derogatory about your boy here. We’re radical wingnuts to be sure, but no one heres sick enough to wish anything but prayers for your son. Besides, he’s so freakin cute. He’s a good lookin kid.
willyloman
September 20th, 2007 at 5:08 pm
They hate us for our Freedom?
Things keep going the way they’re going, pretty soon we’ll be hating them for theirs.
sgt, you know that guy wasn’t taking the picture of that man’s fallen son to Arlington.
I know, that if anyone starts off their side of the story with an outright lie, I don’t believe anything else from that story.
Is there a picture of the 60 year old man? a name?
“Things keep going the way they’re going, pretty soon we’ll be hating them for theirs.”
at least their dictator stayed at home and could put more then three words together in a coherant fashion.
of course, look what that got him.
sgthiggins
September 20th, 2007 at 5:05 pm
bartlebee,
No homeland security guy here. Just an E-5 truck driver relegated to a desk job…albeit temporarily. No recording going on here. I imagine the pentagon frowns on a lot of blogs, not just those of ‘tree-huggin’ insurgent’ types. lol I know I’m no liberal-lover but I’m no lock-steppin’ neocon, either. I come here because I can enjoy a debate…without some Joker harassing me about my son. The comments are on the right topics, and although I don’t mind being blasted for a comment, it isn’t personal or troll-ish.
———
Good answer. Took you long enough to get the PR boys at DHS there to write it, but a good one nonetheless. 😉
As for your boy, no ones going to disrespect him here. We’re treehugging moonbats and all, but we aren’t assholes. No one here will wish nothing to your son other than our prayers. Besides, he’s such a cute little kid. Who could say anything bad about such a little guy?
sgthiggins
September 20th, 2007 at 5:05 pm
bartlebee,
No homeland security guy here. Just an E-5 truck driver relegated to a desk job…albeit temporarily. No recording going on here. I imagine the pentagon frowns on a lot of blogs, not just those of ‘tree-huggin’ insurgent’ types. lol I know I’m no liberal-lover but I’m no lock-steppin’ neocon, either. I come here because I can enjoy a debate…without some Joker harassing me about my son. The comments are on the right topics, and although I don’t mind being blasted for a comment, it isn’t personal or troll-ish.
———
Good answer. Took you long enough to get the PR boys at DHS there to write it, but a good one nonetheless. 😉
As for your boy, no ones going to disrespect him here. We’re treehugging moonbats and all, but we aren’t assholes. No one here will wish nothing to your son other than our prayers.
Besides, he’s such a cute little kid. Who could say anything bad about such a little guy?
sgthiggins
September 20th, 2007 at 5:05 pm
bartlebee,
No homeland security guy here. Just an E-5 truck driver relegated to a desk job…albeit temporarily. No recording going on here. I imagine the pentagon frowns on a lot of blogs, not just those of ‘tree-huggin’ insurgent’ types. lol I know I’m no liberal-lover but I’m no lock-steppin’ neocon, either. I come here because I can enjoy a debate…without some Joker harassing me about my son. The comments are on the right topics, and although I don’t mind being blasted for a comment, it isn’t personal or troll-ish.
———
Good answer. Took you long enough to get the PR boys at DHS there to write it, but a good one nonetheless. 😉
As for your boy, no ones going to disrespect him here. We’re treehugging moonbats and all, but we aren’t assholes. No one here will wish nothing to your son other than our prayers. Besides, he’s such a good looking little kid. Who could say anything bad about such a little guy? He’s aok, even if you’re not, lol.
That’s funny Sarge, checkin’ behind the fridge. But I believe the Feds are supposed to prosecute for hate crimes and they must be busy looking for ways to prosecute MoveOn.org instead.
Alright. I’ve tried for 10 minutes to answer the Sarge.
I had a nice comment for him with no quips and a few little yuk yuks, but for some reason the spam filter or whatever won’t let me post it.
I removed the tags egregious, and I made sure there was no profantity but it still won’t POST!!!
So I give up.
If its the SPAM filter, then why on ONLY comments to Sarge am I having problems?
And if its filtering, then God, just let me say what I’m going to say or ask me to get the hell out but don’t edit my words because someone doesn’t like them. I hate that shit.
Anyway I’ll be back when you guys get it figured out.
Chow for now
http://gatheringofeagles.org/forum?forum=3&topic=1002&page=1
willyloman,
take a look at the comment by spockwasright at 8:36. Also, this GoldStar DAd was supposedly the same guy who set a Marine van on fire when the news of his son’s death was delivered. Now read the comment, and see that neither side has a tight grip on reality here.
Bartlebee,
Sorry again. I keep stepping away from the computer to get a little housework done, and you get spammed.
In the future, if you notice one of your comments not appearing, try to let an Administrator (Zookeeper) here on the threads know about it, by asking to be rescued from the spam bin or some such thing.
No bells and whistles go off on our computers when Akismet spams somebody, so it’s nice if you can let us know when one of your comments fails to appear. If one of us is around, we’ll rectify the situation ASAP.
Not to belabor the obvious sarge, but the GoE doesn’t have the right to “liberate” the picture. Next time I head to the liquor store, maybe I will “liberate” some Tequila.
I also think, that anything written on their website, is going to be biased to an extreme rate.
I am sorry that it happened at all. The GoE should have been more respectful, and should have left well enough alone.
I am sorry for the hatred and vitriol that is affecting this country. But When both sides refuse to see any common ground, we can’t get anywhere.
That’s what OJ was doing Krazny, liberating his memorabilia from the guy who stole it.
Ok sorry Eggreg. It just seems odd it only happens on posts to the Sarge but ok. I’m seeing conspiracies everywhere now, lol.
You know what would be great?
If we were all wrong. If in January 09 Bush just quietly hands over power to President Obama, and slips quietly down to Crawdad.
It would make me feel pretty stupid, but hell I’m used to that. I can’t wait to feel stupid again.
sgthiggins.
I respect you as a person and a veteran.
So it is difficult for me to understand why you just sent me to a site where one of the arguments (and this is just one of many like it) said this;
“If this guy thinks it really happend to him it might of been his sons ghost.”
and you are quoting from these people about the actualities of the incident? You are smarter than that.
The quote about setting the marine van on fire is incomplete, sgt.
He didn’t set a marine van on fire (period. end of story) he set HIS marine van on fire, with himself in it. According to the quote from that site.
Which goes on to say that this man pulls his display cart around at these rallys and always gets alot of attention.
Meaning, that they have seen this guy and his display often, and they already have a bias toward it.
I would expect more from “A Gathering of Eagles”. They seem more like a “Flock of Chickenhawks” if you ask me.
Ok Eggegious. I just tried posting the the sarge TWICE now and they both got eaten.
Its fairly frustrating.
I’ll get it.
Willy said.
He didn’t set a marine van on fire (period. end of story) he set HIS marine van on fire, with himself in it. According to the quote from that site.
Wow Sarge.
Whats up with that?
from amm at 9:17pm on GoE site:
“This poor man has issues. He was the father who set fire to the Marine Corps van with himself inside when he was notified of his sons death. Antiwar groups expoloit his issues and the casket that he pulls around is used in photo ops at every protest.”
Looks like your comment got saved a few times.
Never mind Willy. They’re all the same. I just couldn’t get it to post.
Anyway it was frustrating because I really want to ask the Sarge whats up with this. Come on Sgt Higgins. I’ve always respected you and taken you on your word.
Whats with pushing right wing lies about a man who just lost his son?
YOU claimed he set “A MARINES” van on fire.
Now it seems it was HIS OWN van he set on fire.
So whats up?
Whats up with you, a so called moderate, spreading right wing lies about an American who just sacrificed his son to this stupid war?
Why would you do that?
I am going to dump one of them, Bart so you are not repeating yourself. K?
It was a marine corp van, but I think from the story that it was either in his charge or something to that effect. the point is, is that he was trying to take his own life… not just vandalize the van.
Yea I see that Willy. But it wasn’t there before. At least I could not see it.
Back to the Sarge.
SARGEANT HIGGINS!!!
TEN HUT!!! LISTEN UP!!! he he, just kidding Sarge.
But come on, Gooooooolllllllllllyyyy Sarge, why would you spread such a lie? Were you not aware of this?
How can you, a good and decent man, ignore the obvious SMEAR campaigns performed against the family of any US fallen soldier, who dares to speak out against the war?
and as it turns out, he jumped into the van the marines drove their to tell him.
He lit HIMSELF on fire inside the van.
3rd degree burns to 50% of his body.
http://www.firstcoastnews.com/news/florida/news-article.aspx?storyid=23352
If you mention the fact that he was trying to take his own life in a statement by burning himself in the van…he becomes a sympathetic character…
If you simply say “he set fire to a marine van” he becomes a terrorist.
Well the way the Sarge wrote it I was left with the impression he burned some OTHER marines van.
But I’ll retract my question Sarge, and assume I just misunderstood you.
Still that doesn’t answer how you can be comfortable with these sites that smear every fallen soldiers family who speaks out against the war. Did you hear the shit some of the sites were saying about Pat Tilmans Brother and Mom? Holy shit. Calling them traitors and such. Tilman’s even being smeared for speaking out against the war in Iraq in letters to his mom.
You see, you leave out one little detail like setting fire to HIMSELF and it changes everything, doesn’t it sgt.?
I’m sorry but I’m tired of these people who just hold hands with groups who support and or are friendly to people like Ann Coulter and act like they’re “hearing both sides”.
This “both sides” bullshit has got to stop. The Anti War movement is NOT a liberal movement. The liberals were the first on the bandwagon, but its an AMERICAN movement, because MOST of America has enough education and grasp of history to know that waging OFFENSIVE war is a recipe for disaster.
There is no “both sides” thing anymore. Its most of America against a small, powerful minority of warmongering nutjobs who think its a good idea to invade foriegn nations.
That was NEVER an American ideal and thats NOT an opinion goddammit. Thats a fact.
I’m tired of the “two sides” bullshit.
Did you check out that “GoE” site, Bart? Wow. You talk about “America! Love it or Leave it!” whack-jobs.
Sounds like most of those guys could justify ANY order just so long as it was sold to them as “good for america”.
Retired jar-heads who drank too much of the cool-aid.
Since when did “loving America” become hating freedom?
1974 Chile Pinochet coup-de-ta and the begining of our own transformation to the Neoliberal trickle down privatized country.
gotta run bartlebee. you play nice now. and keep your head up, chances are, we are making this whole thing up, and we won’t be in Iran in December. 🙂
(and the president doesn’t lie everytime he opens his mouth)
what are the odds of that you think?
I dont know, but this is one time I would’nt mind looking stupid.
Holy crap! I leave for a few hours and you guys lose all sense of context? lmao
Willy.Bart,
I never intended to ‘spread the hate’ of the GoE site. I followed an earlier link (nwmuse 3:05pm) in this thread and then a link in that site to the GoE comments about this DC event.
It was never my intention to condone their behavior. Since when does linking to a site for verification purposes (or any other) imply complicity? I provided you that site, and that particular comment to see that these GoE guys are entirely un-friggin’-hinged! Sorry, but same goes for people who SET THEMSELVES ON FIRE!
The comment I asked you to take a look at was not because I agreed with them, but so you could see for yourself that these guys aren’t playing w/ a full deck. Sheesh, thought you 2 knew me better than that. LOL
Oh yeah, and sorry it took me so long to get back to you Bart. My handlers were discussing the best way to ‘deal’ with you. LOL
krazny,
I never meant to imply that I agreed with the ‘liberation’ of the Marine’s photo. I was trying to point out the mentality of the guy who did the ‘liberating’. I mean, c’mon! The guy was offended by the PLACEMENT of a photo of a Marine in uniform.
sgthiggins
I provided you that site, and that particular comment to see that these GoE guys are entirely un-friggin’-hinged! Sorry, but same goes for people who SET THEMSELVES ON FIRE!
What are you freaking kidding me?
The guys just found out his sons was dead. I’m not saying it wasn’t a crazy act, but in an moment of God awful desperation a father who raised a son for 20 years, and who was sent off to fight in a war that whether or not you condone of it, theres no denying that the majority of the world including this country, think is wrong.
In a moment like that, in that God awful horror of finding the little boy you raised was dead, just like that, temporary insanity is a perfectly understandable response. That the fathers case is extreme is not in doubt.
That you are showing remarkable cold, callous apathy and downright disrespect for the father by calling him “unhinged” is just deplorable. I would expect more from a someone who is a father himself.
No ones condoning it but for Christs sake cut the guy some slack.
sgthiggins
Oh yeah, and sorry it took me so long to get back to you Bart. My handlers were discussing the best way to ‘deal’ with you. LOL
Yea, ….er…. lol.
Whats that Shakespeare used to say? “Many a truth is spoken in jest” … ?
It never fails to amaze me the antiseptic way this government expects “patriotic” citizens to act at learning of the loss of their own offspring.
That maggot in the White House and the two tawdry trailertrots of his haven’t a clue what it means to a parent, to learn that they’re putting one of their own in the ground.
A parent should never have to bury a child.
And when they do, for the sake of a pompous government the LEAST we can do is show them a little goddamned respect. The guy messed up, and compounded one tragedy with another.
What are you crying about the fucking van? FUCK the goddamned Marine van. Who gives a shit?
An American, a father, who’s just found out he has to bury his son is now seriously burned on over 50 percent of his body. I don’t care who you are, I don’t think calling him unhinged is correct.
Sad. Desperate. Temporarily insane with grief.
Sure.
But unhinged is just a fucked up thing to say.
Bart,
I’m sorry…temporary….what was that? insanity?
I agree w/ you.
It was a completely understandable response again I agree. And I could be wrong (although that would set a horrible precedent) but the photo ‘liberator’ may have had a similar moment of ‘temp. insanity’ when he saw the photo being displayed in a manner he felt was ‘disrespectful’. No doubt: The GoE member started the whole thing. The GSDad reacted appropriately….BUT: He was in reaction mode, he wasn’t thinking of the consequences that could arise from tackling a 60 yr. old man in front of a bunch of like-minded GoE wingnuts. And I’m sure the GoE wingnut was strollin’ along feelin’ a bit smug, having gotten one over on the protesters. I bet he felt all frickin’ giddy at the thought of those ‘hippies’ dragging a coffin w/o a pic on it. I live in DC and I steer clear of the protests and rallies. There’s always a fringe element on both sides. This rally was no different.
And I can, as a father, feel regret and remorse for the loss this man has suffered. But sorry, regardless of how he feels about the GWOT, what’s more important would be how did his son feel? Marines are a very proud bunch of people, and rightfully so.
I know if anything happens to me during my next deployment, my mother and wife would be on opposite sides of the fence regarding their ‘honoring’ my memory. And I’m a Gemini, seeing both sides of anything is a trademark of mine. Drives my wife crazy!
And yes, many a truth might be spoken in jest but I tend to say almost everything with a touch of sarcasm. Another of my trademarks.
Oh, before I forget,
thank you for your kind words about my son. When people mention what a good-lookin’ kid he is, they usually follow that with “He looks like your twin”….to which I reply (’cause I’m just so stinkin’ clever) “That’s not fair…it took me 34 years to get this good lookin'” Note I said ‘clever’ not ‘funny’ LOL
Ok,
temporarily unhinged.
Looks like I need my hip-waders on this thread….
hoo boy. lol Hi Zooey!
I’ve gone and irritated the livin’ crap out of Bartlebee….again. Either it’s not hard to do…..or I’m an @ss. hold on, lemme ask my wife.
Oh dam! I’m an @ss!
Think I can use having a cold as an excuse?
ok I gotta get up at 5:30.
Sorry to have to run Zooey. Catch you later.
Bart, have a great night.
No, you can’t use the cold excuse. I had a cold last weekend, and someone called me stupid. 😦
See ya soon, Sarge.
Oh I’m good. I just didn’t think it sounded right. We’re so freaking insensitive these days to the families of soldiers who have been killed in this stupid occupation since Cindy Sheehan was dragged from the capital for wearing a T-Shirt the GOP didn’t like.
I think the world watched the right wing (like Ann Coulter, who is their spokesperson) smearing Cindy Sheehan as a traitor and calling the 911 widows “gold digging witches” and people just said,”oh well, guess they’re not off limits anymore”. When a soldiers killed I don’t think whether he’s a republican or democrat. I think it sucks an human died. And when an Iraqi is killed I think it sucks more humans died. And died from miserable unnatural means.
Anyway yes, he was clearly temorarily insane, but with grief. He was griefstricken.
Also, their is a a wide division between lighting a Van on fire with yourself, and attacking someone.
Might right to swing ends where your knows begins, you know?
Anyway I haven’t heard lots on the incident downtown so I’ll have to look at it more. But liberals are getting beaten up by groups of republicans more and more. It happened just recently down in VA (I live in DC too) at a hotel with Senator Macacca’s staff, when they tackled a single lone unarmed man and beat him mercilessly. If you don’t see an upsurge of this then you’re not looking hard enough. And if you don’t see a tie in this to 1920’s Germany and the bullies of the SA, then you haven’t read enough about post WWI Germany, and the rise of the Nazi party.
Sorry. My right to swing ends where your nose begins.
Must be the booze.
Zooey,
I had a cold last weekend, and someone called me stupid. —could THAT be the cure for the common cold? Are they caused by stupidity? Would explain why everyone gets ’em now and then…..and why I have one right now. <—- self-deprecating humor….well, self-deprecating, at any rate.
Bart,
On thinking about this incident more, again, I have to disagree.
We’re so freaking insensitive these days to the families of soldiers who have been killed in this stupid occupation —and people just said,”oh well, guess they’re not off limits anymore”. —– It’s more complicated than you make it out to be. I think most people (myself included) don’t impugn their right to grieve a terrible loss. BUT..when they put themselves in the public square and say (whether you agree or not) inflammatory remarks about the sitting Potus, and think that they can then hide behind their grief from any disagreeing view….that’s not how free speech works. No one is saying they don’t have a right to say it…but no, losing a child doesn’t free you from the consequences of having said it, free from all reproach.
Also, there is a a wide division between lighting a Van on fire with yourself, and attacking someone. —– He did both. Also, I don’t wanna get into any ‘right’ or ‘proper’ way to grieve here, but ‘most’ people, when hearing the news of the death of a loved one, might collapse, sob uncontrollably for days, sit in ashes and rend their clothing, what-have-you….most people don’t set themselves on fire! I’m re-thinking that ‘temporary’ part. His action kinda suggests to me that he may have been previously unhinged. And setting himself on fire was likely just the manifestation of said unhingement at the moment of the final straw (news of his son’s death being delivered). “Normal” people don’t set themselves on fire, Bart. That’s kinda what made this guy newsworthy…he had done something out of the norm.
And if you don’t see a tie in this to 1920’s Germany and the bullies of the SA, then you haven’t read enough about post WWI Germany, and the rise of the Nazi party. —- You’re (unfairly in my opinion) characterizing citizens of the US w/ a state sanctioned paramilitary unit. The correlation isn’t there. And frankly, I wouldn’t have pegged you as a conspiracy theorist. Liberals getting beat up by republicans? You’re mad because republicans have better fighting skills? C’mon, tensions are high, words are exchanged, and all it takes is for ONE person to throw a punch (and yes, their right to swing ends at the other guy’s nose) and next thing you know, the benches are clearing and you’ve got a dam-near riot on your hands. That shows that people (on both sides) are passionate and emotional about what they believe. That’s a good thing, Bart. It’s when one side tries to oppress the other that it becomes something more, something sinister. And when that oppression is state sanctioned, then sure, it’s a downward spiral. But no, I don’t see a correlation between the SA and the GoE. That was just shy of ridiculous.
sgthiggins says “No one is saying they don’t have a right to say it…but no, losing a child doesn’t free you from the consequences of having said it, free from all reproach”
the “consequences” of free speech include having someone who disagrees with your measage rip-off your picture from your memorial to your dead son? Are those the “consequences” of free speech in your world, sgt.?
And let’s get this straight for the reading public; I am the one who pointed out that when you first quoted this “Gathering of Eagles” hate site (and it clearly is a hate site), you quoted a comment BUT ONLY PART OF THE SENTENCE.
You said that this guy was “unhinged” because he set fire to a Marine van upon hearing of his sons death.
You left out the rest of the same sentence that stated he set fire to HIMSELF in the Marine van.
You made that choice because one way he looks like a grieving father..
and the other way he looks like a terrorist.
Everyone should have a look at what sgthiggins and I are talking about.
this is the website that he linked to and then quoted from.
http://gatheringofeagles.org/forum?forum=3&topic=1002&page=1
That’s sick, treating a grieving father that way. There is no one way to grieve, and while this man’s expression is unusual, it’s his right, and he was harming no one.
These sick fuck pro-war people (that says a lot right there) had no right to interfere with his First Amendment rights, and surely had an idea that stealing the picture of the man’s son would cause him great pain. Talk about unhinged, behavior like that is sick.
“conspiracy theorist”
Ah, I see. Is that how you classify all the inconvient infomation that does’t quite fit in your manual?
“pegged”? nice sgt. You have other classifications you “peg” people into so you can dismiss them out of hand? Handy isn’t it sgt.? Being able to discredit a persons viewpoint because they are slid neatly into a little box already.
What is truely outragous about your argument is that you came back here to reposition yourself, again, against this father who has GIVEN A SON to this war effort.
Based completely on the fact that in his moment of extreme grief, he did something “that normal people don’t do”.
Shame on you, sgt. That is truely shameful. The Gathering of Eagles hate mongers and war supporters (see the site people) VANDALISED THE MEMORIAL TO A FALLEN SOLDIER and then GANGED UP ON AND BEAT THE MAN WHOSE SON THEY HAD JUST DESECRATED.
and you come here to try to spin it to look like some crazy guy got what he had coming.
Semper Fi.
morning Zooey. 🙂
Good morning, Willy. 😉
Gotta new article up! go look you lazy Zoo people!
Like you said, Willy, we’re lazy. Tell ’em on the top thread. 😉
See ya later (and your new article).
later you.
willy,
the “consequences” of free speech include having someone who disagrees with your measage rip-off your picture from your memorial to your dead son? Are those the “consequences” of free speech in your world, sgt.? —— Those were apparently the ‘consequences’ in this case! Yes, willy, hate to be the bearer of bad news, but what you say and how you say it MATTERS. No matter who you are or who you’ve lost in this war or any other. If you think for one instant that anti-war protesters aren’t being watched by the ‘enemy’, al-quaeda, and that they’re getting just a wee bit giggly over watching America practically self de-fukkin’-struct, then you’re simply not trying to grasp the fact that comments..made in a public forum (ie. free speech) have consequences. Good and bad, sure. Yep, it’s GREAT that we live in a free society where people are free to voice their opinions and openly demonstrate against the sitting administration…..But don’t kid yourself that there aren’t people watching said public speaking and getting ideas. I’m not saying I’m against free-speech, just don’t be blinded, thinking it’s all good, no harm, no foul.
I am the one who pointed out that when you first quoted this “Gathering of Eagles” hate site (and it clearly is a hate site), you quoted a comment BUT ONLY PART OF THE SENTENCE. —– It wasn’t intentional Willy. You know, not everyone is ‘out to get you’.
You said that this guy was “unhinged” because he set fire to a Marine van upon hearing of his sons death. — I (and I stated this earlier) linked to the thread through a C&L link provided by an earlier poster. And my ‘unhinged’ remark was in reference to the GoE guy who thought he was ‘liberating’ the photo AND the guy who set himself on fire!
You left out the rest of the same sentence that stated he set fire to HIMSELF in the Marine van. —- Oh, my bad….does that somehow imply that he was, in fact, ‘hinged’ after all?
You made that choice because one way he looks like a grieving father..
and the other way he looks like a terrorist.
It wasn’t a ‘choice’ willy, and either way you look at it, he ain’t right in the head. I think it’s likely he had major issues prior to getting the news of his son’s death. I say that because people who ARE sane…don’t react to horrible news by setting themselves on fire.
this is the website that he linked to and then quoted from.
http://gatheringofeagles.org/forum?forum=3&topic=1002&page=1
So now I’m the ‘bad guy’ for linking to this site? Why aren’t you bashing Crooks and Liars, willy? That’s where I linked to it from. Wait a sec…..that’s not a double standard rearing it’s ugly head, is it?
Zooey,
There is no one way to grieve, and while this man’s expression is unusual, it’s his right, and he was harming no one. —- Zoo, you know dam well I wasn’t saying there was ‘one right and correct’ way to grieve. Unusual? kind of a mild understatement there. Ok, so he wasn’t harming anyone. That makes him harmless, not sane.
These sick fuck pro-war people (that says a lot right there) had no right to interfere with his First Amendment rights, —– I agree, and agree, and agreee. ad-friggin’ nauseum, it seems.
and surely had an idea that stealing the picture of the man’s son would cause him great pain. Talk about unhinged, behavior like that is sick. —- yeah, i used the term ‘unhinged’ in both instances. Both sides (in this instance) are/were slightly friggin’ kooky. The GoE guy ‘liberating’ the pic and the GSDad who seems shocked that he got his @ss handed to him when he tackled a 60 yr. old man in front of a bunch of like-minded kooks!
Look, it was an ugly incident. No doubt. I actually think the GSDad was less ‘unhinged’ than the old guy who felt a need to ‘liberate’ the Marine’s pic, but unhinged nonetheless. Anyway, sorry I missed you. Hope you have a great day.
“If you think for one instant that anti-war protesters aren’t being watched by the ‘enemy’, al-quaeda, and that they’re getting just a wee bit giggly over watching America practically self de-fukkin’-struct, then you’re simply not trying to grasp the fact that comments..made in a public forum (ie. free speech) have consequences. Good and bad” – sgthiggins
Oh no you di’int just imply we are giving aid to al Qaeda by showing our differences. First let me say, who gives a f*ck. Why don’t we just concede then that al Qaeda won because we have changed the entire American way of life because of their actions. I guess they have. Because were not longer allowed to protest the war without expecting our asses to get kicked. And who are these guys who bully protestors. Are you SURE they’re not sanction by the administration. Maybe their a branch of Blackwater or a like group. After all, there’s never any charges filed agains them, is there. And six black kids in Louisiana faced attempted murder charges for the same behavior.
I for one am not afraid of al Qaeda. I’m afraid of the Americans who are willingly handing the country over to an administration that stops at nothing to meet its agenda. And this blaming the victims as in bashing Cindy Sheehan and Pat Tillman’s family and blaming the 9/11 widows for expressing their opinions is a very recent trend in this country. They protest because of their grief and Bushco ala Ann Coulter and her ilk accuse them of being political hacks working for the Democrats. Of course nobody questions the motive of those who deride them as hack but the plan works and Cindy Sheehan quits and the media no longer speaks to 9/11 widows and nobody is held accountable for Pat Tillman’s death and the events that followed. And nobody asks how this group of thugs, that follows the anti-war protestors and starts trouble with them is allowed to operate.
“conspiracy theorist”
Ah, I see. Is that how you classify all the inconvient infomation that does’t quite fit in your manual?
—inconv—?? Willy? C’mon, man! Drawing comparisons between US citizens exercising their right to free speech (albeit not peaceably) and state sanctioned -nazism isn’t ‘inconvenient information’..it’s misleading and irresponsible information, at best, and dishonest information at worst.
“pegged”? nice sgt. You have other classifications you “peg” people into so you can dismiss them out of hand? —— I didn’t ‘dismiss’ anyone. Although i’m getting tempted! jk =)
Being able to discredit a persons viewpoint because they are slid neatly into a little box already. —- being ‘slid in a box’ and dismissing someone’s viewpoint aren’t the same thing. So tell me, Willy…what ‘box do you slide people into? Have you now slid me into the ‘neocon’ box? (kinda crowded in here)
What is truely outragous about your argument is that you came back here to reposition yourself, again, against this father who has GIVEN A SON to this war effort. —— I have not taken sides willy, and losing a son doesn’t imply that his right to free speech is now somehow not open for debate. That what he says is gospel-truth.
Based completely on the fact that in his moment of extreme grief, he did something “that normal people don’t do”. —— Ok, so I slid him into the “not quite right in the head’ box? Ok, I can go along with that.
Shame on you, sgt. That is truely shameful. — I disagree, Willy, but you go right ahead and slide me into the ‘shameful neocon’ box…and keep that magic marker handy, there may be more words to scribble on the label when Zooey sees this. LOL
The Gathering of Eagles hate mongers — (hate mongers? that wouldn’t be a *gasp* ‘label’ would it?)
and war supporters (see the site people) VANDALISED THE MEMORIAL TO A FALLEN SOLDIER and then GANGED UP ON AND BEAT THE MAN WHOSE SON THEY HAD JUST DESECRATED. —– And they were wrong….never said differently, now did I? Also, the Vietnam Memorial was recently vandalized and will require extensive (read costly) repairs.
and you come here to try to spin it to look like some crazy guy got what he had coming. —– No spin, Willy. He didn’t get ‘what he had coming’. But to tackle a 60 yr. old man in plain view of said 60yr. old man’s like-minded kooky friends…you gotta expect to take a few lumps…even if you’re ‘in the right’. I’m actually glad that the GSDad didn’t take their stupidity. The guy fully deserved a full on tackling.
Semper Fi. — Hooah!
Shayne,
I’ll be more than happy to respond, but I gotta jet. My wife has an appt. this afternoon.
But real quick…I don’t know why these GoE goons are even folowing the protesters around in the first place. I believe ( I could be wrong, but that hasn’t happened since ’82 and I don’t wanna break my streak) that these are the guys who show up to ‘protect’ the monuments from being defaced and/or vandalized. I gotta run, fo’rizzle.
Have a great day.
higgins says “If you think for one instant that anti-war protesters aren’t being watched by the ‘enemy’, al-quaeda, …”
you don’t even know who we are fighting in Iraq, do you?
higgins says “But real quick…I don’t know why these GoE goons are even folowing the protesters around in the first place. ”
then why do you quote them?
higgins says “…and losing a son doesn’t imply that his right to free speech is now somehow not open for debate.”
What did you fight for, higgins? The right of Free Speech in this country in NOT up for debate for anyone….
jesus man. What are you saying?
The GoE site is a hate site and they are disruptive at best at these events, but I haven’t questioned their right to be there. Just the right to desecrate the memorial of this fallen soldier.
Free Speech is NEVER “up for debate”.
sgthiggins
September 21st, 2007 at 9:33 am
BUT..when they put themselves in the public square and say (whether you agree or not) inflammatory remarks about the sitting Potus, and think that they can then hide behind their grief from any disagreeing view….that’s not how free speech works. No one is saying they don’t have a right to say it…but no, losing a child doesn’t free you from the consequences of having said it, free from all reproach.
Oh Bullshit. You put yourself int he public square in a political blog using a military moniker and usually advocating a right leaning position, yet you put a link to a page about your sick son, and you criticized people for attacking your kid the same way I’m criticizing people for attacking the mother or father of a fallen soldier and dragging their kids into it.
Its wrong.
And none of your strained attempts at middle of the road logic will change that.
You knowingly go into a liberal blog selling mostly conservative ideals, which means you had to know you’d draw fire, yet you linked to your sick son.
But that doesn’t excuse the assholes who slander him.
Anymore than it excuses the assholes who slander the families of the fallen, either in the war in Iraq or on 911.
Bartlebee,
But that doesn’t excuse the assholes who slander him.
Anymore than it excuses the assholes who slander the families of the fallen, either in the war in Iraq or on 911
I agree. Slandering them is wrong. But (and it may be middle-of-the-road logic…sorry) having lost a son or daughter in this conflict doesn’t mean they don’t have a right to speak out, but neither does it mean that what they say is above reproach. I think that there IS a middle ground. They should never be ‘slandered’ but neither do they suddenly have a right to yell ‘fire’ in a crowded theater just because they’ve suffered a loss.
Hate speech (the ‘N’ word) is often used to provoke. I think it’s been used as a defense if say, you use the N word, and get your ass handed to you….you lose your case. You provoked it.
And as for my criticizing, for example, Joker who slandered my son and namejacked me on TP….. I can criticize him, but he has a RIGHT to do it. Just like I have a RIGHT to beat his @ss in public should the opportunity ever present itself….and I then have a RIGHT to a fair trial for assault.
Willyloman,
I apologize. I thought you had lost your marbles for a minute until I read what I had written. I didn’t mean to say that his free-speech rights were debatable…only the content of what was said. He doesn’t get to claim that 2+2 = 3 and we all have to say, “Oh ok. Well, he lost a son in Iraq, who are we to question him.”
then why do you quote them?—- So you could see for yourself that these guys have a few screws loose, dude. I thought that was pretty clear. I wasn’t pointing out that the GoE guy had ‘liberated’ the photo because I thought, “Right on, dude” I pointed it out because I thought, “WTF is this guy smokin’?”
you don’t even know who we are fighting in Iraq, do you? —- Yeah, bad guys. That’s the easiest way to decipher their ever changing names. Enemy combatants….former Baathists….Insurgents….After a while you just think…”Fu(k it, the ‘enemy’ changed everyday….Bad guys. Let’s just call ’em bad guys.” We never took the fight to them (as truckdrivers we just rolled in convoy from one post to another) and only ever fired if attacked. It didn’t matter who it was. Never crossed my mind, “Gee, where did he come from? Iran? Saudi?”
Shayne,
I most certainly did imply that we are emboldening the enemy. lol But unlike the neocons who think that it’s the liberal left who emboldens the enemy, I think it’s a lot of both sides. We aren’t just airing our differences anymore, we’re blatantly reveling in the fact that we are a Nation divided down party lines.
Bad Guy (reporting to his leader): Sir just wanted to report on the latest progress. Our strategy of ‘divide and conquer’ is working flawlessly. The first stage is nearly complete.
Leader (in a very Mr. Burns’-esque voice): Excellent.
Look, I’m just sayin’ that if I were the enemy..I would be lovin’ this. We are tearing ourselves apart from the inside and they don’t even have to lift a finger.
“Are you SURE they’re not sanction by the administration. Maybe their a branch of Blackwater or a like group.” —- Hmmm good point Gen Burnside. Well no Shayne, I have no dfinitive proof they aren’t in the pocket of the WH. guess that proves that they are.
“And nobody asks how this group of thugs, that follows the anti-war protestors and starts trouble with them is allowed to operate.” —– They have a right to follow them and vocally express their opinions…..not ‘liberate’ their propery a la OJ Simpson. Anytime you have a ‘protest’ you’re gonna have ‘anti-protests’. Just par for the course. Banning one sides right to dissent would set a precedent even the Left would be against….I would hope so anyway.
“you don’t even know who we are fighting in Iraq, do you? —- Yeah, bad guys.”
sgt. I wish I could see things that clearly. For me, it is a little more complecated. We have invaded a nation based on lies and killed (conservatively) over 100,000 civilians in the process (or caused the death of..) we have given Cheney and his “Energy Task Force” a free hand at writing the “Hydrocarbon Law” which hands over control of the Nationalized oil revenues, to large oil companies.
The Insurgency is fighting to keep us out of their nation and Blackwater is back to work today, because this administration doesn’t give a rats ass about what the government of Iraq or it’s people wants.
and you can’t even tell me who “the bad guys” are?
do you know why? Because WE are the bad guys sgt. To say “Our Nation Right or Wrong” isn’t patriotism… it is subserviance. The patriot holds dear the truths that should make the nation better; nobler.