In 350 Days someone new will be your President – This man?

Good morning from Europe. This morning, checking the major english spoken newspaper websites for news, I stumbled across an article, an extract of “The Audacity of Hope” by Barack Obama printed by “The Independent”.

“The Zoo” does not endorse any particular candidate and I am sure my colleagues would agree if I said, that we encourage diversity in opinion. On the other hand, after reading this, I personally and I’m speaking for myself only here, found it inspiring to read. So I’m sharing it with you to come to your own conclusion:

First, he captivated the world. Now a young senator from Illinois has a fighting chance of becoming the first black president in US history. But who exactly is he? And what inspired his bid for the White House? On the eve of Super Tuesday, Barack Obama explains why he wants to become the most powerful man on earth

Monday, 4 February 2008

 The inside of the White House doesn’t have the luminous quality that you might expect from TV or film; it seems well kept but worn, a big old house that one imagines might be a bit draughty on cold winter nights. Still, as I stood in the foyer and let my eyes wander down the corridors, it was impossible to forget the history that had been made there – John and Bobby Kennedy huddling over the Cuban missile crisis; FDR making last-minute changes to a radio address; Lincoln alone, pacing the halls and shouldering the weight of a nation.

As I munched on hors d’oeuvres and engaged in small talk with a handful of House members, I recalled my previous two encounters with the President, the first a brief congratulatory call after the election, the second a small White House breakfast with me and the other incoming senators. Both times I had found the President to be a likeable man, shrewd and disciplined but with the same straightforward manner that had helped him win two elections; you could easily imagine him owning the local car dealership down the street, coaching Little League, and grilling in his backyard – the kind of guy who would make for good company so long as the conversation revolved around sports and the kids.

There had been a moment during the breakfast meeting, though, after the backslapping and the small talk and when all of us were seated, with Vice President Cheney eating his eggs Benedict impassively and Karl Rove at the far end of the table discreetly checking his BlackBerry, that I witnessed a different side of the man. The President had begun to discuss his second-term agenda, mostly a reiteration of his campaign talking points – the importance of staying the course in Iraq and renewing the Patriot Act, the need to reform Social Security and overhaul the tax system, his determination to get an up-or-down vote on his judicial appointees – when suddenly it felt as if somebody in a back room had flipped a switch. The President’s eyes became fixed; his voice took on the agitated, rapid tone of someone neither accustomed to nor welcoming interruption; his easy affability was replaced by an almost messianic certainty. As I watched my mostly Republican Senate colleagues hang on his every word, I was reminded of the dangerous isolation that power can bring, and appreciated the Founders’ wisdom in designing a system to keep power in check.

Read the rest of the article, here

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86 thoughts on “In 350 Days someone new will be your President – This man?

  1. Another rant alert!

    Zooey, good morning! He has his downsides, Willy wasn’t all that wrong when he pointed that out in a thread below. But Obama is a fast learner. Look how aptly he adjusts to what he hears and experiences on the trail. And: Many things he says today seem to be quite deeply rooted in his beliefs. Not a perfect man, but good enough to give him a real chance. Moreover, don’t underestimate the feeling of movement, change, hope and the glimpse of a better future he offers. The confidence in a good future will be badly needed by all of you to be able to turn your country around. There’ll be tough times ahead.

    I don’t trust Hillary with that. I trust her that she serves you more of the same with some glazing, so it tastes a little better, but is really still the same.

    Ok. I may say all this, may I? I’m not a citizen I won’t vote, so I’m not endorsing anyone here. But even the German “Spiegel” has a Bush backwards counter, we would like to it to be over, too. And given the pressure we Germans face about the situation in Afghanistan, from a Pentagon who foocked up the strategy there and needs more young men to kill and be killed, Hillary is not a good choice either. She is definitely pro war and won’t change much there (except the rethoric).

  2. I agree, EV. There isn’t a perfect candidate — there never has been, and never will be. Even JFK wasn’t the JFK people thought he was. It looks like the Dem candidates are going to be Clinton and Obama, and it’s likely a Dem will be president this time — unless we really fuck up.

    Personally, I have never trusted Hillary, and that’s only getting worse as time goes by. Like you said, Obama is a fast learner. I hope he’s an even faster learner than we know.

  3. It is a while ago, but I’ve read Seymore Hersh’s “Dark Side of Camelot” and yes, JFK and Bobby Kennedy were far from being perfect.

  4. Zooey, I wish I had your knack for words, then my rants would be much shorter :-D

    You said it girl!

  5. So apparently I am too stupid to understand that politics is a compramise? Is that it, Zooey?

    I don’t want a “perfect” candidate. I want an honest one. Maybe one that “we” pick, through the democratic process – not one that keeps quiet while the MSM selects them for us.

    I want one that doesn’t write letters to members of the PNAC suggesting that one country has the right literally starve certain members of their own population, just because someone fired a homemade rocket over the wall they put up to starve them out.

    I want a real progressive candidate, Zooey; not a “perfect” one. And not an artificial one that has been packaged and sold by the media for our consumption. There is a difference, and I am smart enough to know it.

    Let me ask you this, Zooey. Does your “perfect” candidate rationalization continue when the field is narrowed to one; and that one is Hillary?

    Are you so blinded by the Democrat VS Republican lie that you will still support her to be the next president? Or would that be too much like what we have been accusing the republican trolls doing over the last few years?

    Baseless blind political faith works both ways Zooey. They are using the “sense of hope and change” as a marketing ploy. I am smart enough to know that too.

  6. Willy, why do you think everything is about you? Can you possibly respond to me without going on the attack?

    I said Obama is a good man. God forbid.

    I’ll ask you again: Since the field on the non-insane wingnut side is narrowed to two, what the hell do you suggest?

  7. Willy, this is about an election and here are the candidates. Hillary Clinton and Barack Obama. Not your choice? You are free to not vote. And everyone else is free to vote or not vote, too. Even for a Republican. Blame Democracy.

  8. Morning Willy. I see you are in another wonderful mood.. I don’t see anywhere in the comments where anyone was referring to you as being stupid..
    It would be really nice for once if you could make your points with attacking and putting people on the defensive from the outset. Nobody said anything outrageous here.
    And we all want the same things..
    You don’t add anything to the conversation or debate when you are always attacking or insulting people.

  9. Unfortunately willy by the time most of us get to vote our candidate is out. What alternative do you suggest then. Do nothing and live with President McCain.

  10. You mean aside from the fact that EV mentioned that I was right about the critisism of Obama? And the fact that I could swear that your “perfect candidate” arguement was the exact same as the one you used with me a few days ago? You mean, aside from those reasons, Zooey?

    So when I am mentioned, i tend to think something may be about my previously stated opinion. Not, me.

    And once again, by stating my opinion, I am “going on the attack”? Is that how it works now?

    I am stating for the record, that by voting to fund the illegal war in Iraq… by turning his back on the modern aparthied situtation in Gaza and the West Bank because it is politically expediant to do so… and for keeping quiet while the MSM cut Gravel and Kucinich out of the primary…

    NO! Obama is NOT “a good man”. Anyone who turns their back on the Palistinian plight is not “good” in my opinion. God forbid I suggest a democrat isn’t.

    And since you asked, not all republicans are “wing-nuts” just because they are republicans.

    And yes, I have another suggestion; let’s replace Pelosi with Kucinich and then impeach the vice president and the president. And then who does that leave to be president? That’s right. We can make our own choices still, Zooey.

  11. Shayne, I agree with you. We have to do something. I am simply suggesting that sitting around and rationalizing that the DLC candidate is good enough is not it.

    I have one course that I am working on; maybe there are others?

  12. And how exactly do “we” replace Pelosi with Kucinich. I think it’s a great idea, but nobody is listening to me.

    We can make our own choices, write in whoever we want as our candidate and what have we accomplished exactly. Nobody cares. Nobody cares what Kucinich has to say why would they care what we say. I’m confused about what you think you’re accomplishing willy.

  13. Muse, my mood is just fine.

    I could have sworn that a previous comment on this thread refered to my position being one of looking for the “perfect candidate”.

    Now perhaps I read those first few comments a little differently than others, but the jist of it is still there.

    I am not looking for “the perfect candidate” as I have clearly stated before.

    and by the way, I do remember the last time I was involved in a conflict here, about this very same issue, and I remember it wasn’t me cussing and insulting others.

    just because I have a different opinion about what we “progressives” have to accept, doesn’t make me the enemy.

    Nor should I be treated as such. Especially not here.

  14. My petition to replace pelosi has gained 500 signatures in the past 2 days. The call for impeachment is rising from all over. Even republicans seem to want to seperate themselves from this criminal regime.

    Believe it or not, some of them love their children too.

    I don’t know what to say, only, I can’t support someone to run this country when I already know they have sold out, to a large part, to start with.

    no matter how many “pepsi commercial” music videos they make.

  15. Anyway willy. Your memory of previous discussions might be better than others. And since you weren’t even here when the comment was made today I wish you wouldn’t assume it had any reference to you. If ev and Zooey were discussing you in any way they could do it on FB or something they wouldn’t make snide remarks about you here. That would be silly. You know we all like you willy and that we’re all on the same side. It is all just very frustrating for everybody.

  16. “Whatever you do will be insignificant, but it is very important that you do it.” Gandhi

    Ghandi was right about this. He understood that while we may not see the fruits of our labors in our lifetimes, it remains essential that we labor.

    We are on the same side, Willy. You admit that you are tilting at windmills, but criticize us for not tilting at the same windmills.

    I think that working toward getting rid of Pelosi, and getting impeachment proceedings going is essential. It’s also essential — at the same time — to ensure that we do not have a President McCain or Romney.

    Stop hitting me on the head with bricks.

  17. Shayne…. the comment is still there… right up top….

    and it’s not a snide comment about me. it is a discussion about whether or not Obama is a flawed candidate as I have stated before.

    Perhaps I glanced over it too quickly, but I could have sworn that someone suggested that I was looking for a “perfect candidate”.

    In fact, the jist of the comment is just that. And it is still there.

    But it’s nice to know that the real comments are saved for the Facebook chats. :)

  18. Yes, Willy. At some point in time I said you were looking for a “perfect candidate,” but that doesn’t mean I had you in mind when I commented today.

    I’m really not going to start monitoring my language for things I’ve said to you in the past. If you have a question about something I’ve written — JUST ASK.

  19. I think what ev was saying is that he’s flawed just like you had previously suggested. I think this might be just a misunderstanding based on the way women use language compared to the way men do.

    My point was if somebody had something negative to say they wouldn’t need to do it here. I took ev’s first comment as she was agreeing with you. That’s why it all gets very disturbing when you think we said something against you.

  20. Although since I have a husband I understand what you’re saying willy. It is the difference in the way women and men communicate. With men every conversation can be a one up one down kind of battle but trust me women do not view conversation with the same objective.

  21. Zooey, I cannot see corpuption as a viable “progressive” candidate. I can see that as a viable republican candidate, these days, but not one of ours.

    I never saw Kerry as a co-conspirator, till he refused to contest the obviously flawed election in 2004 Ohio and Florida results.

    Clearly, Gore did what he could.

    This is the first time, I have have ever really known the democratic candidate to be part of the problem, rather than the solution.

    And I notice you and yours aren’t argueing this point. So you know this as well, would be my guess.

    I don’t want you to settle.

    You didn’t settle for TP. You made this.

    I don’t settle now. That’s what I want. Even if I go down in flames, I do it with dignity, on my feet.

  22. I don’t really know all the negatives you have on Obama. He’s my senator and I voted for him as senator. I don’t really know all you’re implying that he’s done wrong. I have to vote tomorrow so if there’s something really bad, do let me know.

  23. And I can vote for a Republican in the primaries so if you have one you think is great, by all means let me know.

  24. What’s the solution, Willy? You have your Plan A. What the back up plan? I’m thinking about back up plans. You know why? Because that’s what we always forget about, and that’s how we get these idiot Republican presidents.

    Sure, you might go down in flames. You’ll do it on your feet. You have the moral high ground for doing what you can. We support you in that, and are actually trying to accomplish the same goal.

    If we don’t have a back up plan, the whole country goes down in flames.

    The candidates ARE Obama and Clinton. This is not likely to change at this point. We have 9 months until the election, Willy. That’s not much time.

  25. Shayne;

    Exactly what I just said.

    he supports Israel’s on the closing of the borders of Gaza because the DLC is heavily backed by AIPAC…

    http://willyloman.wordpress.com/2008/02/02/two-candidates-one-humanitarian-injustice-two-letters/

    and he kept his mouth shut as the DLC and the MSM and GE (the war profiteer) shut out viable candidates…

    and he accepts large contributions from PAC and lobbiest “bundlers” that have an effect on how he votes…

    and he voted repeatedly for war funding ( and has no plan to remove the permanent bases in Iraq).

    Now I could go on with his health-care plan that will be a huge payday for the insurance companies, but I wont.

    But thank you. I mean that. For the first time, someone here has asked to rationally talk about these issues with me.

    I do mean it. Thanks.

  26. I don’t support republican candidates, Shayne, but I do know that Ron Paul wants to take our kids out of Iraq in the first days of office and he wants investigations into corruption of this administation.

    He has said this much in their debates.

    But he won’t win. And he won’t sign HR 333 as a co-sponsor either… so I don’t know.

  27. “Excuse me?”

    opps…..

    As far as “plan B” is concerned… Ron paul, impeachment, viable third party candidates, write-ins, military coup, impeachment, act of God, Cheney’s daughter (you know it’s coming eventually), …

    I don’t know. I have one plan, there are many, and believe it or not, there are lots of people talking about them, because I am not the only one who feels a little sick being force-fed-hope.

  28. Willy, just so that I don’t get misunderstood. You were absolutely right to hold the position about the Gaza situation against Obama. He could have spoken out against the media’s behaviour against Kucinich, Gravel, Dodd, but Ron Paul and others, too. You’re right here.

    But I’d prefer if you kept in mind, that different people have different opinions and sometimes caring about what someone says about your own country and the perspective he gives to your own country is very important, too.

    Btw. The situation in Gaza has changed since Hamas has blown up the fence, they are now in charge of border controls. The Palestinians helped themeselves, you know? They can. Today Israel faced it’s first suicide bombing in more than a year. Whether this is one consequence of Hamas’ prevailing in Gaza, I don’t know. I mourn the Israeli victims as much as the Palestinians, Jordanians, Lebanese, Syrians, you name it. A peaceful Middle East doesn’t depend on a single resolution against Israel. It depends on Hamas, Israel, Syria, Hezbollah, all renouncing violence as a political means. I could go on about that, butI’m getting seriously off topic here. We will, sadly, have many opportunities to talk about violence in the Middle East in the future.

    It’s hypothetical but I would vote, if Hillary won the nomination, for the candidate I see as the better choice (not as the lesser evil) because for me the glass tends to be half-full. And if that was Hillary, I’d vote for her. If that was a Republican, Id vote for him. No sweat, I did that in all elections so far, except my first and I was 18 then and incredibly stupid.

  29. I understand your point, Zooey…

    “If we don’t have a back up plan, the whole country goes down in flames. ”

    But I am suggesting that if we pick this DLCer, the whole country will still go down in flames, because he won’t ‘change” anything substancially enough to save our troops, or to keep us out of another illegal war.

  30. Well willy I was always a big Edwards supporter and I know he had issues too. My vote for Obama tomorrow will really just be a vote against Hillary, making a statement in my own way. It is the only way what I say makes a difference tomorrow. If Hillary was to win Illinois it would be the end of Obama.

  31. And I feel like the Republicans are the ones pushing Hillary down our throats because they know she’s the easiest for them to beat. It’s all about small steps for me because I don’t think anything else I do matter.

  32. “. The situation in Gaza has changed since Hamas has blown up the fence, they are now in charge of border controls.”

    On Sunday, the Israeli’s closed the border again (they didn’t build the fense on the Egypt side in the first place) after they gained “permission” from the Egyptians.

    The letter Obama wrote was to keep the UN Security Council from condemning Israel’s action as a humanitarian crisis. That would have been the first step to applying pressure from other nations on Israel to ease restrictions on Gaza, like water, electricity, medicine, food, humanitarian aid from other countries (all things being blocked by Israel from going into Gaza)

  33. Now willy certainly you have to believe that both Clinton and Obama will work harder to get us out of Iraq than McCain will.

  34. This is from TruthDig, EV and I would like you to have a peek at it.

    It’s written by an Israeli, who suggests that Israeli’s who are looking for a peaceful and respectful settlement with the Palistinians are really in the majority over there.

    It’s just that, much like over here, there seems to be some real fanatics and theocrats in charge.

    it’s a great artcile about the Israeli settlers on the Palistinian territories and what they get away with.

    The person who wrote the article is one of the Israelis who go to the territories to act as human shields to protect the Palistinians, literally putting his life on the line for them

    Every atrosity that happens to the Israelis is on the front page. You might ask after reading this, why these stories never make it there. At least, not in our country.

    http://www.truthdig.com/arts_culture/item/20080201_milton_viorst_on_israels_tragic_predicament/

  35. But I am suggesting that if we pick this DLCer, the whole country will still go down in flames, because he won’t ‘change” anything substancially enough to save our troops, or to keep us out of another illegal war.

    I don’t know if you’re trying not to answer my question, or if you’re being deliberately obtuse.

  36. Do you guys think i would vote for McCain?

    Is that what you think I am saying?

    Vote for Obama over Hillary in the primary. Sounds reasonable to me; she’s crazy.

    But just don’t spend your time stumping for him is all I am saying. Or any other candidate that acts the same way.

    me? I spend my time trying to figure out how to get the word out there for my petition, or helping to spread the impeachment bug to anyone that will listen to me.

    But, no, Shayne. I won’t vote for McCain. But i won’t vote for hillary either.

  37. “I don’t know if you’re trying not to answer my question, or if you’re being deliberately obtuse.”

    isn’t that kind of the same thing? The question was “what is the solution?”? I gave you several answers, from earnest to silly. i don’t know

    “Well see we agree 100%.”

    sure, yes. kindsa i just, won’t support Obama along the way in any form whatsoever. Though I would vote for him, if he were the nominee, though he won’t be. Hillary is too easy for them to explain why she lost, and they have already rigged two elections this year as it is, that we know of, Florida and New Hamphire for the eventual nominees, Hillary and McCain.

  38. See how much fun it can be to disagree violently? Even when you don’t actually disagree?

    Thanks for the chat all…

    gotta run and do some work so I can afford my manditory health care plan. :) (little parting jab there)

    (obama sux)

    (hail Pedro)

  39. isn’t that kind of the same thing? The question was “what is the solution?”? I gave you several answers, from earnest to silly. i don’t know

    Well, no. They are not the same thing, but that’s beside the point.

    Now you’re saying vote for Obama in the primary, over Hillary, which I agree with.

    So what was the point of your initial sarcastic attack on me?

  40. “Well, no. They are not the same thing, but that’s beside the point.”

    Well, yes they are. and that is the point.

    “So what was the point of your initial sarcastic attack on me?”

    That wasn’t sarcasm. And my Point is just what I said it was; I will do what I can to persuade others to find a different solution to the equasion rather than just waiting and hopeing that somehow Obama will right this ship.

    Because he won’t.

    He hasn’t yet, when given ample opportunity, and in fact, he has shown that he will support the status quo DLC line at every turn thus far.

    The reason I said what I did, was because I am not looking for a “perfect candidate” just one that isn’t hand picked by the corporations that run this country and the MSM.

    that is what I said, and that is what I meant.

  41. Look at that avatar… it’s perfect for me isn’t it. Now the oly question is, is it my blood or someone elses? (I will probably end up being the angry greeter at Wal-Mart the rest of my life)( to pay for the manditory health-care plan)(another parting shot. I can’t help myself :) thank you for shopping at Wal-Mart.)

    (hail Pedro)

  42. I respect what you’re doing, Willy, aside from your perpetual attack mode.

    Try to respect the fact that we support your efforts, and are doing something about a Plan B.

  43. “If there is no struggle, there is no progress.”

    Frederick Douglass (he was a republican, like Lincoln)

    Your friendly neighborhood attack dog says hello… and goodbye, ZZ.

    (I spam and go)

    (hail Pedro)

    (obama blows)

    ( ;) )

  44. Good Morning camper’s…..Tired, hurting and crankie….My Dr. won’t be in untill tomorrow..Damn.

    O.K. I have the privlage of being in a blue state, for now. For the first time in my life I am not going to vote for who ever the Dem’s put up…My primary ballott came in the mail Friday and for the first time ever I marked it and sent it back on Sat..My man was on it, Kucinich. Not likely to happen in the main election but my vote will be the same..Will write him in…

    When all the runner’s were in I looked up everything on them all, you know my first choice, second place pick was wide open with Edward’s, Richardson, Gavel, Biden, Dodd, all way ahead of Clinton and Obama….I could of voted for any of the other guy’s and felt good about the vote but not the last two..

    I looked up their voting record’s and who was financing them and realy got pissed..Not a dime’s worth of diffrence between Clinton and Obama and in fact many of their backer’s are the same HMO’s, Banking intrests and large Pac what ever they are called.Bundler’s let me count the way’s one military contractor is financing Obama through one of those bundeling thingie’s..

    Now I know I am old and a whole lot slow but there is no way I am going to vote for either of them…When Kennedy sent me his “Send money” I’m for Obama because he is like JFK letter I came unglued and sent back a scathing email…First off this is not 1960 or 1990 and now we have nearly all of the house and senate in bed with evil….Palosi and Reid are the biggest enabeler’s of our time…I let Kennedy know my disdane for the party in not standing up for the people in our party that had been shunned and removed….Let him know how disgusted I was with his early backing one candidate all the while going along in silence in allowing good people to be excluded….Some poor schmuck that read’s the email’s was probably thinking “wow, this old woman is realy angry”..At the very least some one will think about my note and I got to vent a lot of truth…..Told Kennedy I was ashamed to call my self a Dem..The present party does not reflect me at all..

    My friend told me the other day I was a true bleeding hear libral, I agreed and then added if the earth shift’s I will suddenly be projected in the air and fall off the east cost side..Hope I get to take my broom..

    I was going to go to the (caca) on purpose, but when Edward’s bailed I decided not to go.No point for me since I dislike the top to so much.

    I hope you all are right and I am wrong, I realy do but I don’t see either one of them doing anything diffrent by a signifigent amount than what is going on now.Neither plan to end the war quickly, neither will hold any in this administration accountable.Both have health plan’s that still pander to the Pharm, HMO’s..Both have the same stance on the middle east…

    Moving right along.Ron Paul is a nightmare looking for dummies to send money and vote’s..First off this old fool has a lot of white supremests backing, voted many times against civil and women’s right’s and his plan’s would march us back in time over 100 year’s….Mccrazy is one hickup away from full blown dimentia….Romney is an answer to all thing relegious and reglatory. Yike’s!…There you have it my long winded spin….Do as you choose and I hope it work’s out for us all…..Blessings.Please forgive the length.

  45. witch1, I love your rants! You gave me some thoughts and I say, I really hope for once I am right and you are wrong, so we can all enjoy a more joyful future. Take care!

  46. witch1 is right. just like i am. You’re so funny, witch. Dean sent me that thing for more money to and I wrote back that he should ask GE for it after what they did to Dennis K.

    I even made them pay the postage. Ha! So there! Take that!

    (obama eats it)

    (hail Pedro)

  47. EV… interesting.

    However, they BOTH supported Israel’s little war on Southern Lebannon last summer (you know that one Condi had so much fun running?).

    Do you know how many cluster bombs were used during that? They still have them going off to this day, the little unexploded prizes waiting for someone to come along.

    Depleted Uranium as well. Strange he didn’t push to condemn their use in that little skirmish.

  48. Back again, just got back from running the Bear and putting away my brocerie’s…Good post’s Willy and all.

    I forgot to mention the big fact that many Dem’s of today are nothing like my old grannie Mac and I..By my gauge they are centerest’s…She and I would qualify as socalist’s in many respect’s…Especiely in sharing the wealth and lifting all boat’s with the tide..No people starving and being denied necessary services. Offering aid instead of bomb’s to foreign countries and elimination of all our own weapon’s to set an example…A great dream I am not likely to see in my life time.

    What’s happening with the Obama (surge) is the public is close to a revolution and getting all charged up to a buzz word “Change” and rallying to a great “Idea” the first black man to be president..The other side is getting equaly charged for the first “Woman” for president…Sad realy when the substance and buzz word’s are hollow, when the campaign is over, the office is filled with a new set of polatician’s and it’s back to busiess as usual….This time equipt with inherited damage to our constitution, got out of jail free past abuser’s and all the million’s of other problem’s we are faced with……Blessings, we need the,,,Peace can’t get here quick enough for me..

  49. exactly. They are using our energy and our hope against us to keep us sitting around thinking that Barack will be the next JFK or MLK. That way we don’t risk doing anything to blow it, like impeachment.

  50. Yep! Willy and most of all they are using fear of loosing another election as a reason for everything they do…..They being the present polatician’s on the slightly left of center and in the center…..They don’t want to loose more than they want to do what’s good for our country our people and the world..’Anything to maintain their position’s even eating their own” like they did when they abandoned all the other’s running..BTW that little line was in my email to Kennedy….Told him the Dem part has become the party that eat’s it’s own..

    We are still 10 month’s to count down….Our country should have a one day all across the nation to caca or primary, then the convention and then the final vote…..This part lotting crap is for the bird’s and put’s to much emphases on small state’s back east when all the state’s should be involved together……Later….Blessings

  51. Wow – looks like I missed quite a serious “debate?” while I was working to make a living today :( Guess I should be happy that I still have a job especially since overall the pharmaceutical business is cutting it’s staff by 10% across the board.

    Carry on, folks. My husband put an Obama poster in our window. We both don’t want Hillary as the candidate. The candidate of my choice left the race after New Hampshire and so far hasn’t endorsed anyone. Why should he. None of the remaining candidates have ideas and plans similar to his.

    Do I hear a plan C? Something that will take effect if McCain (more wars, less jobs) or Romney (Reagan reborn) get elected to the White House? Is that when the revolution comes? Listen to the words of the “Last Poets”, the Godfathers of HipHop.

  52. No one addressed my observation that one of the four front-runners is going to be president.

    I hope and pray I’m wrong, but there is simply not enough time to get a third party run off the ground — especially when there isn’t even a candidate.

    Pursue impeachment, but also realize the election is coming up and I don’t fucking want McCain or Romney. I don’t want Hillary either. so if that means I have to SETTLE for Obama, I’ll do that.

  53. I’m with you on that Zooey. There is not enough time for a third party. It could be something we could start with after the November election. There is the Progressive Democrats of America but they seem more like a PAC. With the internet connecting to so many different places, we could simultaneously start our own revolution with a third party. I think that the creation of a third party may have to start at the local level. We have 11 months to think about this and plan this as a side endeavor.

  54. “No one addressed my observation that one of the four front-runners is going to be president.”

    Ten months is a long time. And I have addressed it, in a way…

    If we impeach them both, then the Speaker is president, and fixes alot of things before the election, then runs as a incumbant.

    That could be Pelosi, or anyone that she is replaced with from the majority party in the House. Including Dennis.

    Gravel is still running from what I understand. A push for him (yeah right) might work, or even Ron Paul (little flaky, but he does want out of Iraq).

    Anyway, the point is that to simply throw up our hands and say we “have to pick” between their 4 clones as our options, is a bit defeatist for me.

    I would rather push for the replace/impeach process, and accept as MY given that we can still have an effect on the political process in this country.

    Yes, I will do that rather than sugar coating the least worst DLC candidate they offer.

    I think you will find, the more you read up on their voting records and their platforms, like Witch1 says, that Clinton and Obama are pretty much identical.

  55. That’s a big IF, Willy. It’s nine months, not 10. Times goes by very quickly, especially when you’re trying to get society to move.

    In my opinion, it is not defeatist, it’s simply the way it will likely be if the impeachment doesn’t come through.

    You should do as much reading on Ron Paul as you have on Obama. The only good thing about him is that he wants us out of Iraq. Otherwise, he’s a nightmare.

    It’s also my opinion that Clinton and Obama are not identical.

  56. And Zooey, to be completely honest, after the election rigging of the past 3 election cycles, what makes you think your vote matters anyway?

    Do you not believe that these electronic voting machines are rigged? After all the evidence we have seen?

    I will tell you, when I saw Liebermann and McCain sitting on that AEI stage,back in Nov. of 2007, helping to sell the “surge” together, I said, “that’s the next president and vice president”.

    Now look at them. The Unity ticket, both gung ho and ready for the war on terror.

    and that will happen. Look who won both of the questionable primary’s this year; Hillary and McCain. And there will be more this tuesday to add to the list.

    So I think we are going to HAVE to do something in these next 10 months, if we want any kind of real change.

    I don’t want McCain or Romney or Liebermann either, but I just can’t wait for the people counting the votes to tell me how it worked out.

    I have lost faith in them, if you know what I mean. Especially after what we have already seen.

  57. You asked about other possibilities Zooey than the 4 leading candidates. And I told you there are some. Not great ones, but some.

    Many I probably don’t know about.

    And I already know a bit about Ron Paul, and I am not a big fan of his.

    But, to his credit; he wants us out of the WTO and NAFTA, he wants us out of IRAQ as well as the bases, and he wants investigations into what lead up to 9/11, and whatever that includes.

    Now, yes, he is a republican and a free-trader, but he does at least talk about regulations like they aren’t cancer or something.

    and one thing is for sure, he isn’t a liar. Not that I know of anyway.

    Not that I am going to vote for him, but, you see, there are other options out there, ZZ that aren’t as bad as all that.

  58. Ron Paul is a liar. Read up.

    I’ve got news for you, Willy. I live in Idaho. Rigged or not, my vote hasn’t counted for 15 years.

  59. I fell asleep while Keith was on.. Damn that’s got to be as bad as falling asleep during sex..I am so ashamed…..But my back ache is better..So the old term of “Life’s just full of little trade off’s” is true..

    Woke up with the TV screaming, some guy’s on MSNBC were stuck on their spin about tomorrow.. It came out yesterday that Cantwell and Murrey, my senator’ s are backing Hillery…Bet all the rest of the state will follow suit…

    Now to the heavy stuff….Remember way back before 2006 election how happy I was about the first woman House speaker…..Yah, well scratch that..I made a terrible mistake, even wrote and told her so…..No doubt Palosi thought just as much about that letter as she did about the ton’s of other’s I sent in her praise and request’s to do something…..There is a point here, I’m slow tonight, hell I’m alway’s slow….Unless we remove her and Reid from power we are right back to square one on impeaching…Just my thought’s.

    You are all correct, as I am….We have no tried and true answer’s…We are in a hell of a mess and are not being given the benefit of choosing the right person to lead….We are being given corprate sponsered spin machine’s with a buzz word or a one liner to sell us on the candidate…In the end my guess is there will be tiny change’s made by the new fool in the white house, just enough to appease average joe who doesn’t vote and has to punch the time clock forever. ..The war will tick along past 2013 if Hillery get’s in…No date posative for Obama….100 year’s for Mccrazy and quite possibly here in the street’s if Ron Paul is elected……Do as you choose and as wisely as possible given the information you can get…..Blessings

  60. I know he doesn’t give very good explinations for not supporting impeachment, but what are Obama’s reasons? or Hillary’s for that matter?

    At least in the debates, he speaks his mind in front of a very hostile crowd. He stands up there and says we shouldn’t be in Iraq; it’s an illegal war; and that we have to get out, now.

    So I see the appeal. He also believes that the World Banking system and the Federal Reserve Bank are crippling this country, and many other nations at the same time. And he talks about it.

    again, I am no big fan of his, but you have to admit, that takes balls in a party dominated by McCains and Romneys.

    Now, I’ve given you quite a few actual examples of his platform. Would you mind elaborating on the “Read Up.” statement.

  61. I don’t know if he is a lier or not that was Lady Z’s post but I will tell you what I do know…..He’s raising huge amount’s of cash from white supremestes (sp) group’s..His voting record for civil, women’s and all right’s stink and he has even given speeches in the past that are down right ugly….Can’t look them up tonight, to tired but he is way down in the sewer of who I would vote for…..Last but not least he is a real rep….His view’s are along with extreme fringe and unless your male, white and willing to carry a gun against your neighbor I woulden’t go there…Blessings

  62. Yah, he’s against the IRS and even goes along with the fringies that plan on printing new money..It’s all part of the superior race stuff ,Willy…They suck their supporter’s in with their kind of ugly with a hint of good here and a flicker of freedom there….It’s called Nazi I think…..Blessings

  63. Like I said many times, I’m not a big fan of his, in the first place.

    I don’t imagine he is going to roll-back the sufferage movement anytime soon, or the civil rights movement for that matter.

    I simply don’t like him bccause he voted to table Kucinich’s impeachment resolution and yet he claims to be a strict constitutionalist.

    Those don’t jive for me too well.

    But I wonder if anyone finds it curious, since we have both a woman and a black man running for the “middle of the road” and the young/hopeful votes, that all of a sudden this guy is a sexist-clansman?

    Seems a little conviniant considering most of his supporters are young hopeful voters looking for “change”, don’t you think?

  64. “…even goes along with the fringies that plan on printing new money…”

    one of those “fringies” was JFK, and it’s not about white supremisist groups, witch1. it’s about the power structure that runs this country behind the scenes.

    Do you really think Bush or Paul Wolfowitz came up with all this?

  65. “It’s called Nazi I think”

    are you suggesting that people that believe that the World Bank and NAFTA are wrong for this nation, and part of a plan to overtake democracy… are Nazis?

  66. I don’t find it odd at all…..Most of the extreme group’s recruit from the young and impresionable…..I was young once, remember very well….Lived at Hayden Lake Idaho and saw all the young recruit’s in tree stand’s with automatic weapon’s watching me walk my dog’s past the compound’s…Many were teen’s and even pre teen’s..That group above all is easy to convince, they even turn against and kill their parent’s..With or with out Ron Paul’s….Just my observation’s….I would no more consider him than I would a Lieberman or Chertoff….Blessings

  67. Where exactly do you think the decision to Kick out voices like Gravel and Kucinich and Edwards comes from?

    You think all those Indonesians and Guatamalans and Peruviansprotesting the WTO and the IMF are Nazis? Is that what you think?

    Think Chavez is a Nazi? He threw out the US Dollar too, as well as the IMF.

    That’s what these people are saying, that these international funds are really super large banks looking to sink their hooks into every single country, any way they can.

    And I agree with them.

    Do you know why they want to change the monetary system? Because it is a debt-based fiat system, witch1, based on nothing at all. Not gold backed anymore, it’s value is based completely on the rate the “fed” says it sould be.

    And the “fed” is the Federal Reserve Bank. A private company owned by the same banks that run the WTO and the IMF.

  68. “Executive Order 11110 was issued by President John F. Kennedy on June 4, 1963.

    This executive order allowed the U.S. Secretary of the Treasury to issue silver certificates against silver bullion based on authority delegated by the President to the Secretary under the Thomas Amendment to the Agricultural Adjustment Act.”

    5 months after his assasination, they issued no more silver certificates. You see someone didn’t like the US issueing and controling their own money like it says in the constitution.

    The order was eventually nullified by two seperate acts by Ronald Reagan in the 80s.

  69. But that’s what the “fringies” want, witch1. They want the US congress to control the circulation and creation of our monetary system again rather than a private bank owned by British and US billionares.

    And again, I tend to agree with them.

    Now all of this is factual, and you are welcome to look it up.

    And I will tell you one thing; my wanting the US to control making it’s own currency doesn’t qualify me as a Nazi.

  70. Here are some more Nazis for you:

    “Congressman Wright Patman, the Chairman of the House Banking and Currency Committee from 1963-75, spent his entire Congressional career criticizing the Federal Reserve’s existence, saying that the Government should manage its own money system independent of the private banks.”

  71. ” Congressman Henry Reuss chaired the same Committee from 1975-81 and he echoed Patman’s criticism that the system inherently favored the corporate and banking elite.”

  72. “Congressman Louis T. McFadden, Chairman of the House Committee on Banking and Currency from 1920–31. McFadden claimed that the Federal Reserve was run by Wall Street banks and their affiliated European banking houses.”

  73. Good Morning Willy, I think I wasen’t clear enough on my thought’s….No I do not think group’s that want us to get away from the federal reserve and print our own money are Nazis. No I do not think people that want to eliminaate the IRS are fringie’s either, I was in a group year’s ago that was using the constitution as proof we should not be taxed in the way we are..The fedral reserve is a private concern run by big name’s like the Rothchild’s and many other’s that have run and extorted from the public since it’s inception.

    I to agree with Chavez and many you mentioned on our work for the return of freedom…I don’t however agree with people like Ron Paul that hide behind those hot issues and are tied to and financed by white supremests group’s, vote against women’s and civil right’s and then try to cover up their true ajenda.. I am not kidding my self or trying to convince any one else how to vote only stating my opinion based on what I have read in the past year…Believe it or not I am on your side and more than that I worked for year’s with group’s that the main stream thieves called fring group’s….I am a constitutionalist and a bleeding heart libral…Sadly there are few true old democrat’s left….When I am gone there will only be younger people like you to carry this torch, freedom, liberty and a government run by the people, not by big money……Blessings

  74. Thanks for clarifying that witch1.

    Like i said before, I have my own issues with the Ron Paul Revolution, and I do not support his candidacy.

    But these issues about who really runs this country are real, and they need to be addressed, because I will tell you this much, it ain’t Cheney or the MSM or even the CFR; it’s the guys that pay their salaries and set the Prime Rate. And on that point, Mr. Paul is right on the money.

    And i hate to be the one to tell you, but you are going to be around for quite some time to come. You will be around to see this and other changes occure.

    I only wonder what I will complain about afterward. Blessings to you, witch1.

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