May 9, 2008...9:58 am
Senator McCain Doesn’t Have a Pastor Problem?
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John McCain loves him some religious right. He accepts or forgives all of them eventually. There is nothing they can say that will cause Senator McCain to reject their endorsement.
Keith Olbermann on McCain’s Pastor Problems
Why is it that the only minister to get called out for his heated comments after 9/11 is Jeremiah Wright. The religious right has a history of blaming gays, abortions, pornography and anybody else they don’t like at that moment for every disaster that has cost American lives, even though the deceased are not party to these “crimes”. Is what Reverend Wright said any more inflammatory than comments by some other Christian leaders? Or to paraphrase Chris Rock, “It’s all right if you’re all white.”
14 Comments
May 9, 2008 at 10:36 am
Perhaps American politicians are finally going to have to pay the piper for their shameless pandering to religion that has reached its peak during the Bush administration. If the Jeremiah Wright mess brings about that happy result, then it will have been worthwhile.
Every politician seems to feel that it is a job requirement for them to wear their faith on their sleeve (right next to the flag pin). Jimmy Carter perhaps got this all started when he shared with us too much information about both the lust in his heart and his “born-again” religion. Every politician feels the need to tell us what church they attend, how wonderfully Christian they are, and how important their faith is to them. Most of them are simply pandering for votes and have no more religious conviction than anyone else. Scariest of all are the politicians who actually mean what they say - they talk to imaginary beings and follow the advice of some of the most dreadfully hateful people in the world. Irrational voters consider this a virtue. Rational voters have ignored it as simple pandering. But we continue to ignore it at our own peril, because we have increasingly empowered lunatics both inside government chambers and surrounding government officials. Only our strong institutions have protected us from the type of nightmare rule in Iran, Afghanistan, and other theocracies, but the longer we give a free pass, the weaker these institutions become, and the more tenuous our grip on the unique freedoms of a secular state.
Politicians have had a free pass for too long, gaining all the benefits of embracing delusional and criminal monsters like Hagee, Robertson, Falwell, Haggard, etc, while suffering no drawbacks of any kind. Until Obama, there have been no drawbacks. Let us now take the opportunity to force politicians to explicitly reject or embrace the maniacal preachings of the preening swine whose endorsements they seek.
It’s long past time to stop putting religion on a pedestal. Tolerate it, yes. Allow for diversity of opinion, yes. But it’s time to stop violating the Constitution. It’s time to eliminate public funding of “faith-based” programs, tax exemptions for religious organizations, and public funding of religious schools (under the guise of “vouchers”).
It’s time to bring to a close America’s experiment with theocracy.
May 9, 2008 at 11:02 am
Excellent comment, gorn! Speaking for myself alone, as an atheist, I find the attitude of religious people in general toward me to be almost resentful, when it is not one of pity. Either they fear for(and sometimes offer to pray for) my eternal soul, or they act like I have no place in this great country of ours. I find the latter attitude to be especially hypocritical, since they would seem to have no problem with me as long as I believe in a God other than the one that they think is running things, just as long as I believe in God. I ask why?
Some have put forth the argument that you cannot have a moral center without a belief in a higher power. This is pure, unadulterated nonsense. I, like most other atheists I presume, have as a moral code the same one that many religious people have: Treat other people the way I would like them to treat me. I do not need to believe in a higher power to believe that this is the best way to behave toward my fellow humans. I do not need to be persuaded by the fear of eternal hellfire and damnation for not believing in God. I have a conscience, and when I do bad things to people, it makes me feel terrible, so I try my best not to do those things that make me feel that way. But I would like for someone to prove to me that God exists without using circular reasoning. And, if you’re going to do it, make sure you prove that the God that everyone talks about exists, not some “metaphysical” God that’s in all of us. (That’s a cop out.)
I fear going to prison for something I didn’t do more than I will ever fear going to Hell for something I didn’t believe in.
May 9, 2008 at 11:03 am
All of what Gorn said, and this: It’s racism, pure and simple. If McCain were a black Republican running for president, we wouldn’t even know who he was.
May 9, 2008 at 11:07 am
All of what Wayne said too.
May 9, 2008 at 11:10 am
It really gripes my ass when people say, “How do you know what’s right, if you don’t believe in God?”
Like you said Wayne, WTF?
If one has an internal locus of control, one is capable of knowing right from wrong, and acts accordingly.
If one has an external locus of control, apparently one must have a sky fairy in charge.
May 9, 2008 at 11:32 am
If a person is so twisted that they need to be afraid of God to do the right thing they’re not going to do they right thing because they are afraid of God. They will just use their church as a loophole.
May 9, 2008 at 11:36 am
Right Shayne, all they have to do is ask forgiveness.
Like serial killers in prison do.
See ya later, all.
May 9, 2008 at 11:43 am
Great post’s all….Blessings
May 9, 2008 at 12:51 pm
Absolutely Gorn, Wayne, and all. I have to go one step further from what Zooey said about this statement: It really gripes my ass when people say, “How do you know what’s right, if you don’t believe in God?”
I say: How in the world can you be sure you are doing the “right” thing if the only way for you to know it is “right” is for someone else to tell you? God, church, etc. If you don’t know, then YOU are a scary person…..
May 9, 2008 at 12:59 pm
Great discussion on my pet topic.
Wayne, I find the best way to get my point across is not to wear my beliefs on my sleeve (except on an electronic soapbox like TheZoo), but instead to teach by example. If you are known first as an atheist, then the brainwashed will presume you to be unethical, immoral, etc. By contrast, if you are known first as a person of integrity and principle, and afterward someone learns you are an atheist, it can generate a certain cognitive dissonance within the hermetically sealed mind. Once the ping-pong ball starts to bounce around in their cranium, it stands a chance to crack a hole and escape.
As for proving that god exists without circular reasoning, the only unbeatable non-circular method I’ve seen over the years is the appeal to revelation: “I believe in god because he has spoken to me”. Of course, this is just another form of circularity to you and me, but to the true believer it is not circular because they really believe that their experience is external rather than confined within their own imagination. That’s a discussion killer, because there is nowhere else to go with that mindset. It is impervious to logic, so your best bet is to shake hands and walk away.
May 9, 2008 at 1:08 pm
Bluedahlia - you’re certainly right about that. If the only reason you don’t do evil deeds is out of fear of eternal punishment, then at your core you are both evil and a coward.
May 9, 2008 at 1:20 pm
Zooey, the argument you will get is this: “But where did your internal locus of control come from? Since all effects must have a cause, God must have given you this locus.” This may also be accompanied by the following: “It also proves that evolution is a lie because survival of the fittest means everyone would be out for themselves, cheating and killing each other to gain an advantage. Only the God-given locus of control prevents chaos.”
Of course, these false deductions are easily refuted by anyone with some knowledge of logic and biology…
May 9, 2008 at 1:44 pm
And how do people who believe that God is talking to them know that it is not he Devil that’s really giving them ideas? Bush has said that God told him to invade Iraq. What makes him so certain that it wasn’t Satan telling him to do that? And if you believe in both God and Satan, which do you think is the more likely to have told Bush to invade Iraq?
May 9, 2008 at 1:49 pm
Like I said, Wayne, revelatory thinking is impervious to logic. That’s why we have to be careful to not vote for the deluded, and why politicians should take some care in pretending to be one of them.
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