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Without even a hint of any sense for history Bush went to the Knesset of all places to utter political slurs, that have no roots whatsoever in historical facts. Well, what would we expect from him, after the last years. It took someone like Matthews to point out the utter cluelessness of people propagating this nonsense.
It hasn’t gone unnoticed in European newspapers either and they are not lost for words over this:
The Guardian voices its outrage most prominently, calling Bush a “President without Shame”:
It is outrageous for an American president to use the term “appeasement” in describing the policy of an opponent when speaking before the parliament of a foreign nation. Democrats have rightly reacted with deep anger to this affront. It seems that when it comes to American traditions, George Bush is content to play Samson and topple the pillars of the temple in order to smash precedents he dislikes. What he forgets is that Samson not only killed his enemy, the Philistines, but himself as well.
Bush’s interminable and self-destructive presidency will continue to be so till the bitter end. And if he can topple the campaign of his political enemy, he’s prepared to bring the walls down on himself as well. So ends one of the most shameful of American presidencies.
The Telegraph was in the process of commenting on the lapel pin controversy they were carried away enough to post an update to call Bush’s slur outrageous:
Midday update: Mr Obama has just started to speak in South Dakota. He is denouncing President George W Bush’s frankly outrageous appeasement slur in Israel. And yes, he’s wearing an American flag pin…
The Independent is hardly less outspoken:
On yesterday’s evidence Mr Bush is prepared to use the bully pulpit of the presidency to do whatever it takes to keep Mr Obama out of the White House.
Even The Times is nothing if not vitriolic commenting:
I can’t help but think that all this might be proof of something Newt Gingrich suggested a couple of weeks ago. if Republicans think they can win this election by attacking Obama on the usual grounds that he’s a weak-kneed friend of terrorists and appeasers, they are sorely wrong. The Republicans’ own record on national security is now so badly damaged that for them to claim that the Democrats can’t be trusted sounds to most ears like that old definition of chutzpah – the child who murders both his parents and then claims the law’s protection because he’s an orphan.
Well, its some 248 days left (+ 37 hrs, I think) and if he keeps voicing his inanities, he’ll digg deeper, faster and more effective than anyone before him. Oh and take the red button away from the guy, please!
82 Comments
May 16, 2008 at 3:05 pm
Obama will be a great leader in that he can and will talk with people. Talking is what keeps us out of war. If we ever have to go to war it should not be preemptively for made up reasons. Obama has the smarts to not put Americans in harms way for personal reasons and greed.
Give me an elite with a great mind and the ability to use it any day!
The reason Bush cannot speak to foreign leaders is that the man cannot speak! Just one example is given daily in your Hail to the Chimp (which, btw, are priceless and I love!)
Sometimes, the only thing that keeps me going is knowing that many Bush Administration officials have been charged with war crimes. And I eagerly await their trial for crimes against humanity, for that is the only thing that will return our nation to its once greatness and worthiness of world respect.
May 16, 2008 at 3:06 pm
Very well said, MsJoanne
May 16, 2008 at 3:11 pm
Thank you kindly.
Did you catch this one? Another neocon loses it.
This is from Nicole Belle at Crooks and Liars:
I’d post the link but I’d get spammed and the link is on the bar at the right for anyone who wants to go there.
May 16, 2008 at 3:54 pm
here’s the link MsJoanne mentioned:
http://www.crooksandliars.com/2008/05/16/michael-medved-plays-to-the-lowest-denominator-again/
And another one loses it:
http://www.crooksandliars.com/2008/05/16/huckabee-at-nra-meeting-jokes-about-shooting-presidential-candidates-are-funny/
Whatever is left of the right’s intellect is rapidly disintegrating it seems.
May 16, 2008 at 4:02 pm
Great thread and post’s Ladie’s…..I livid.. And we still can’t get this nut case out of the white house….What we need is someone to short circut the red button so only the evil goe’s….Time for a nap…That last walk with pee pee boy in 85 degree’s did me in..Later..Blessings
May 16, 2008 at 4:16 pm
My opinion is that Bush 43 has totally lost it. His every utterance brings up the question of his sanity. At 61, advanced Alzheimer’s should be out of the question. That only leaves MS which strikes in the early 40’s and leads to the deterioration of mental acuity and empathy for ones fellow man. One who fails in every endeavor of his adult life and gets his jollies from torture and death. This describes G. W. Bush to a T.
May 16, 2008 at 4:26 pm
It’s doubtful Dubious has ever succeeded at anything in his entire life. I think he’s just plain psychotic.
May 16, 2008 at 4:31 pm
I think I will add complete sociopath to the mix. One who has no conscience and no concept. A man who has lived with the silver spoon firmly shoved up his ass and who knows nothing but what others can give to him. He is the shits in his own mind so it must be so.
I remember reading a therapist who once eviscerated Bush by listing the many DSM-IV diagnoses along with the criteria. He fit into so many it was frightening from narcissistic personality disorder to the truly frightening categories. Wish I could find that link. It was great.
May 16, 2008 at 5:20 pm
Hello? Anyone here?
I’m still in South Dakota, and I just found out Obama is here too. He’s going to be speaking live in a minute…
May 16, 2008 at 5:22 pm
George McGovern just spoke, and Tom Dashel is speaking now — warming up the crowd, which is going frickin’ nuts.
May 16, 2008 at 5:22 pm
Holy shit, he’s right here in Sioux Falls…
May 16, 2008 at 5:28 pm
Dashle quotes Nelson Mandela: “Many things seems impossible, until they are done.”
May 16, 2008 at 5:29 pm
Jeebus, he can barely move through the crowd…
May 16, 2008 at 5:30 pm
He has such a great smile.
May 16, 2008 at 5:31 pm
Heh. He called it Sioux City, rather than Sioux Falls. He recovered nicely…
May 16, 2008 at 5:32 pm
He asks people to sit down and get comfortable. They continue to stand.
May 16, 2008 at 5:33 pm
It’s music night, where y’all are?
May 16, 2008 at 5:34 pm
Why is he running so soon, he can afford to wait….?
Running because of what Dr King called “the fierce urgency of now.”
Wow.
May 16, 2008 at 5:36 pm
Wages going down over the last 7 years, heathcare, food, fuel, etc rising.
Borrowing against homes, but because of lack of regulation and oversight, people are losing homes.
Can’t afford to wait to solve those problems.
the dream is slipping away from too many Americans.
May 16, 2008 at 5:36 pm
Can’t wait to bring the war in Iraq to a close.
HUGE applause on that one…
May 16, 2008 at 5:37 pm
He wanted to change things, but also thought the people were ready for the change.
May 16, 2008 at 5:37 pm
Be honest about how we’ll solve our problems.
May 16, 2008 at 5:39 pm
Heh, he’s kissed hundreds of babies.
May 16, 2008 at 5:41 pm
Obama supports and Hillary supporters — that’s ok!
I think there was a ruckus in the audience, with a Hillary supporter.
He turns the focus onto McCain instead.
May 16, 2008 at 5:41 pm
Saying nice things about Hillary….
May 16, 2008 at 5:42 pm
The name George W. Bush will not be on the ballot.
Riotous applause!!!
His “cousin” Dick Cheney will not be on ballot.
Laughing and applause…
May 16, 2008 at 5:43 pm
We don’t nee anymore Katrina incompetence, no more warrantless wire taps, and no more tax cuts for wealthy.
May 16, 2008 at 5:44 pm
War REALLY needs to be over. We are not more safe.
Cannot afford 4 more years of Bush policy — can’t afford McCain.
May 16, 2008 at 5:45 pm
Is ANYONE here but me…?
May 16, 2008 at 5:45 pm
McCain is not talking to the little people about economic progress…
May 16, 2008 at 5:46 pm
Will be united in November to defeat McCain and Bush’s policies.
May 16, 2008 at 5:47 pm
We’ve been talking about some things for years — like health care.
Year after year nothing happens.
Nothing changes, except costs go up.
Insurance companies have spent zillions of dollars making sure nothing happens.
May 16, 2008 at 5:47 pm
Same deal with energy.
May 16, 2008 at 5:47 pm
Ok, no one else is here. I’m just going to watch the speech.
Later.
May 16, 2008 at 5:48 pm
Great thread EV. Chris Mathews is on Countdown with Rachel Maddows filling in. I didn’t see all of it but Chris seems to have had an epiphany and sees all the destruction these buzz words like appeasement have. So either he’s been sleeping the last 7 years or they’ve all been afraid to speak up.
May 16, 2008 at 5:49 pm
I was here Zooey but I was typing.
May 16, 2008 at 6:06 pm
I was watching Countdown…here now. Keep live blogging, Z.
May 16, 2008 at 6:07 pm
Shayne, I still think Tweety sees Olbermann’s ratings and is ready to boost his, too. Now he has the perfect zillion YouTube views so if he keeps going he might make it up a couple digits.
May 16, 2008 at 6:27 pm
Must be the network gave them to go ahead. Even Dan Abrams has jumped on the bandwagon.
May 16, 2008 at 7:26 pm
Z,
I am here. However in about three minutes, it’s sack time.
May 16, 2008 at 7:31 pm
Walt, we have math issues.
May 16, 2008 at 8:08 pm
Shayne, Math issues.?…….Yah right…LOL.Blessings
May 16, 2008 at 8:25 pm
Yeah #1, I was going to explain it myself but didn’t want to break a nail.
May 16, 2008 at 8:42 pm
Well O.K. Then.LOL.
Sound’s like Lady Z had a great time watching the Obama rally..
Can I say quiet here tonight or will it be like yelling fire at the movie…
The Bear and I crashed for a couple of hour’s with the air condition on…Going to be a little cooler tomorrow, hopefuly…..I don’t do well in 85 degree heat with 80% humidity, my brain was poached..LOL..Later all….Blessings
May 16, 2008 at 9:01 pm
Glad you had the air to cool you off.
May 16, 2008 at 9:09 pm
Ew, heat and humidity. I hate that. That’s really unusual over there!
May 17, 2008 at 2:49 pm
Who cares.
Look at their record.
May 17, 2008 at 2:57 pm
So you deny that Carter’s policy with the Soviets was not appeasement (containment)? What else do you deny? How about that Carter’s policy of appeasement led to the Iranian dictatorship that we still see to this day –one which is currently developing nuclear weapons intended to be used against Israel?
Bush was absolutely correct in his speech. I find it absolutely amazing that it has taken the man so long to say it publicly!
What is the Democrat plan to protect America and win the War on Terror? Is it to “pull out of any situations of combat where casualties occur?” Because that is what they do every time the going gets tough…Why else would you think we perceive you folks as “appeasers”? It’s because you (liberals) are not willing to do what it takes to protect American interests, and we (conservatives) are.
May 17, 2008 at 3:57 pm
Brent,
I’ll ask you a similar question to what Matthews asked Kevin James, “What Carter did with the Iranians that you call ‘appeasement’”, and in what way did it lead to “Iranian dictatorship that we still see to this day –one which is currently developing nuclear weapons intended to be used against Israel?” (BTW, I would dispute that Iran is a “dictatorship”, but that’s a separate point.)
What did Carter do? Tell me, I want to know.
May 17, 2008 at 6:32 pm
I’ll tell you everything Carter did, including his appeasement of the Soviets, which you conveniently omit because you know it’s true.
He encouraged the removal of the Shaw, and the installation of the dictatorship of the Ayatollah. Iran became a Radical Muslim state a terrorist state taking American hostages. What did Carter do? He tried to negotiate. His policy of appeasement got Regan elected, and the hostages were immediately released because they knew that Reagan was not a passive appeaser. Even Ted Kennedy agreed with the fact that Carter’s policies of “diplomacy” were utterly failed, and almost won the Democrat nomination in 1980.
The Soviets invaded Afghanistan. What did Carter do? He condemned it, as if they gave two craps…
How about his comment about the “inordinate fear of communism”, as if communism (responsible for the deaths of tens if not hundreds of millions) was nothing to fear. In other words, he was saying “it’s not so bad, it’s an exaggerated fear.” Is that appeasement? You bet.
How about doing the exact opposite thing that won the Cold War? Carter decreased military spending and decreased our nuclear arsenal. Regan reversed that and increased spending, leading to the fall of the Soviet Union.
He befriended communist dictators Castro and Chavez, and watched while doing nothing, while communists took over much of South and Central America.
He is currently in talks with Hamas and oversaw their election and rise to Radical Militant Muslim power –as if to give equal status to our Democracy and a terrorist organization, all the while badmouthing America and Israel.
So perhaps instead of merely calling Carter an appeaser, instead I will include calling him an anti-Semitic Communist, since he clearly sympathizes or appeases to both groups (Radical Islam and communists) –which happen to be the enemies of America, not just because we say so, but because they do. By the way, are you aware of the connection between communism and radical Islam? Do some research. This is something that Matthews and the rest of the folks at the New Obama Brainwashing Center for the Assimilation of Obammunism don’t want you to find out about.
Bush’s speech points out the similarities between the pacifism of Carter and Obama.
Carter’s administration was an absolute nightmare. If McCain represents Bush’s 3rd term, Obama represents Carter’s 2nd.
May 17, 2008 at 6:35 pm
Two Reagan terms, one GHW Bush Term, two Clinton terms and two GW Bush terms and you’re blaming Carter for the trouble in Iran now Brent?
And I don’t recall W referencing Carter at all. In fact even his press secretary admitted they were referring to Obama.
But do tell us Brent, what DID Carter do that has created the situation, albeit largely fabricated by your war mongering heroes, that all your guys have been able to rectify in the 20 years they spent in office since Carter left the White House.
May 17, 2008 at 6:41 pm
You got one link for all the ditto head talking points you’re spewing or are you just going to recite every bit of crap you here Savage and O’Reilly spew. One freaking ling Brent. Because if you do maybe you’d know that it was the Shah not the Shaw of Iran.
In addition, if you actually studied anything you might learn about the Iran Contra hearings where Reagan claimed he couldn’t remember what happened over 100 times. In addition, if you read anything you might learn that Russia was trying to end the cold war for almost a decade buy Reagan wanted to keep the pretense of war so he could keep channeling money to the military industrial complex just the way W is doing no in a war to make his friends richer in spite of the fact that he is creating more terrorists every day.
In addition, you might also realize that Russia drove themselves into bankruptcy by waging a war in Afghanistan just the way Bush is breaking the bank in Iraq.
But instead, why don’t you just go Cheney yourself.
May 17, 2008 at 8:48 pm
So you deny that Carter’s policy with the Soviets was not appeasement (containment)?
~ Brent @ 2:57 pm
Appeasement is not containment, negotiation, pacifism, or to sympathise, you ignorant, hapless baboon.
A casual use of the dictionary might help you understand the difference between the word ‘appeasement’, and the other words.
And in general, like most of your fellow Bush-adoring, kool-aid drinking rightwingers, you should abstain from using three-syllable words whose meaning you do not understand.
A connection between communism and radical Islam? Puh-leeze.
May 18, 2008 at 8:23 am
Ha! okay, so satisfaction with the behavior of our enemies works for you? Sorry if containment was too strong of a word to use to describe Jimmy Carter’s policy toward the enemies of America.
And who says I’m a supporter of Bush, merely for pointing out the fact that he has a point, because it is based on the truth?
I am beyond the right-wing or left-wing –it’s juvenile and petty to me. I am an American Nationalist. Go look that one up…
The fact is, politicians have ruined this country, and YOU are the ones supporting this, by putting YOUR faith in government. MY faith is in God, and the individual freedoms that He grants to all humans. It is only man who (in defiance of God’s will) takes this away.
I have fun with radical leftist types like yourself though.
I almost also forgot to mention another thing that Jimmy Carter, the colossal boob did. He pissed away the Panama Canal. Do you know who controls it now? Do you understand the significance of how much security and power we have lost as a result? Does this satisfy you, since it is America that is the aggressive and evil force in the world, and our enemies are just misunderstood? Or wait! It’s got to be because of our expanding of the military industrial complex that liberals have saved us from! Never mind protecting freedom loving countries, and the righteous deed of spreading democracy…after all, who the heck are we to say that people ‘ought to be free?’
I do not care for your elitist tone. Sorry for my misspelling, as if that matters one bit. If that is all you have to base your argument with, than so be it. I have read hundreds of books. Have you?
You see, I don’t watch Fox (Fixed) News. I don’t waste a penny on cable TV, I read. Did I mention that I earn every cent I have, and always have with great pride?
I listen to Savage once in a while, and I can say that he is only ONE of a handful that has the guts to be honest. I am sure that you have never once listened to the guy for more than 30 seconds, so I’m not sure how you could have such a strong (and factually incorrect) opinion against the man. He has the same disgust for G. W. B. that I do.
You see, you have been brainwashed by propaganda. What’s funny is, you accuse me of “spewing talking points from Savage and O’Reilly , while YOU quote talking points from Chris Matthews! How is that ANY different from something that you falsely accuse me of? Do you see how I might find you to be a bit of a hypocrite? Your credibility already started out low with me to begin with. Your post rantings have only confirmed that my initial gut feeling (instinct) about you was right on the money (it usually is and I always listen to it).
I can’t cay how old you are, but if I had to guess, not very old. I was around when all of this history happened. I didn’t just learn (or be propagandized by agenda driven history re-writers) this from doing a Google search.
Do you know that you are a skeptic, that democracy works? I say, give democracy a chance. Democracy is not just to be exclusive to the West. It is the destiny of every individual on this planet to know freedom. Why are you an obstacle?
McCain is going to win by a very large margin anyway, but you won’t be embarrassed. You will be enraged. I will be less than satisfied, because there isn’t that much difference between the three candidates. But I will take glee in your rage while you protest and riot because you are not interested in democracy. No, you are interested in liberalism. You know I’m right. You would give up your vote if you were convinced that only liberals were in power from now on. Tell me I’m wrong (lie to me).
It’s hilarious how you liberals have turned on Clinton, when a decade ago, you defended him all the way to the edge of the cliff, and fell right over with him. And people say that the party hasn’t been hijacked by the radical left? Why then is Howard Dean (a radical leftist) the Chairman of the Party, and why has he imposed his unconstitutional will in not including the votes of two major states in the primaries? He has not the authority to do so, and it is obvious to the non-brainwashed world that he wants Obama to win. He should be removed immediately from his position because of this. The part y itself does not have the Constitutional authority to not count the votes of two states, yet they do it anyway, thus proving that liberals care about liberalism and if throwing out democracy is the only way to advance their agenda, they are perfectly willing to do so.
May 18, 2008 at 9:32 am
So you are an American Nationalist, Brent. Us Germans have had our share of Nationalism, our brand led us into destruction and shame. I have never seen Nationalism evoke anything, but hate and violence. Security there is but a myth in Nationalism. And God is not an American, so don’t you dare to spew your crap in His name. For those who believe in Him, He sent his son to save all of us, regardless of race, origin or gender.
May 18, 2008 at 9:42 am
Brent, Brent, Brent. Where to start and really why even bother.
So you’re a proud American Nationalist which from the rest of your post we must assume is a bunch of anarchists.
Then again maybe you should start your own movement of American Creative Anachronism since you rewrite history at every turn and play so fast an loose with the facts.
Anybody with half a clue would know that Howard Dean is staunchly behind Hillary Clinton and if you’re that off on that issue, well it shows how out of touch with reality you are. Then again you believe McCain is going to win by a large margin. And do you believe he can do that without stealing votes like Bushco is so famous for.
You hate the entire political structure of the US. So one has to ask, why are you here? Because I can tell you while many of us are grossly unhappy with the way this country has been run for the last 8 years and the losses of our civil liberties we’ve suffered, I can tell you if we were to have a revolution it wouldn’t be to put whack jobs like you in power.
You brag about “earning every cent” like that is a novelty around here. How very elitist of you that you think you are “special” and the rest of us don’t earn our money. For somebody who claims to not be a child and that we are all young it’s funny you have no knowledge or recognition of Iran Contra or really any of the historical issues you discuss.
Since the Panama Canal wasn’t handed over until 1999 it seems if any of our leaders had a big problem with the issue they could have revisited it.
Has there been a big problem with Panama invading surrounding nations the rest of us are unaware of?
Here is the problem with appeasement as practiced by Neville Chamberlain that Bush was referring to:
Do you suggest not going to war with Panama over the canal was appeasing them like Chamberlain did Hitler. Are you effing crazy?
May 18, 2008 at 9:44 am
Wow EV, you said what needed to be said perfectly. I suspect Brent will show up just spreading more crap around though so I’ll keep my post up anyway.
May 18, 2008 at 11:10 am
“Appeasement means whatever I want it to mean blah blah blah Islam and communism are the same thing blah blah blah the current sorry state of affairs is all Clinton’s and Carter’s fault blah blah blah I drink Republican kool-aid but I am an ‘independent’ thinker blah blah blah the Panama Canal does not belong to Panama blah blah blah”
~Brent
May 18, 2008 at 11:59 am
Wait!!!! I thought you said that this was about Obama!!!
So if I am a Nationalist, I am automatically compared to a Nazi? How lame, juvenile, and ridiculous is that argument?
So Roosevelt’s call for Nationalism after Japan attacked us was really a call to envoke hate and violence? WE
May 18, 2008 at 12:07 pm
Sure because Roosevelt’s call for Nationalism after the attack at Peal Harbor, was nothing but a call to “evoke hate and violence”….Never mind that we won WWII because of NATIONALISM!
Shayne said on May 17, 2008 at 6:35 pm:
and… Shayne said on May 18, 2008 at 9:42 am
Which is it?
May 18, 2008 at 1:02 pm
Brent, the way everybody looking faintly Japanes was interned after Pearl Harbour and Hiroshima and Nagasaki
Hate? Violence? I’d say, very much so!
May 18, 2008 at 1:03 pm
Brent, EV lives in Germany, she wasn’t talking about Roosevelt’s nationalism, duh.
You seem pretty confused. What I meant was the kind of appeasement practiced by Neville Chamberlain, which is who Bush was comparing Obama too, turned out to be bad. However, I don’t recall Obama saying he was going to talk to Iran and give them control of Iraq. Although I don’t think it would be a bad idea if Bush gave Iraq back to Iraq. And really how dare the Panamanians, they actually expected to get their territory back, and they’re “brown people” right?
May 18, 2008 at 2:05 pm
What? First of all, when did Bush say that talking with Iran was going to give control of Iraq to Iran? I must have missed that part. If he actually did say that (which I believe you actually made up in your seemingly tunnel-vision view of the world), then that is absurd. However, disgracefully retreating in cowardice from Iraq at this point would absolutely give strength to Iran in the region, no question. “Talking” with them, isn’t going to do much good, since they are waiting for the destruction of Israel, so the 12th imam (the Mahdi) comes out of the well under the postbox.
Secondly, Iraq controls Iraq. Are you unaware of the elections there, and the fact that their turnout makes our elections look silly? They risked death to vote. They are actually serious about democracy and freedom –a lot more than the people in this country who tend to take it for granted and who don’t seem to care that millions of people in two large states (Florida & Michigan) have not had their voices heard. Do you understand the irony of this? YOU complained about votes not counting in Florida in 2000 when Bush defeated Gore. How is this different? It is even crazier since it is so blatant! You people are such hypocrites! Your attitude is “do as I say, not as I do” apparently.
When has diplomacy EVER worked with our enemies? Can you name a single occurrence with which to prove your claim that diplomacy is the only true path to peace? If our enemies aren’t interested in negotiations, then why should we be? Besides, why on Earth would we want to negotiate with a country that does not even recognize Israel’s right to exist? Why “talk” with a rouge state that supports terrorism? With liberals it’s always seemingly all about what feels good, never mind whether or not the plan will actually work…
You still refused to answer my question (which I mistakenly presented incorrectly). I will ask again, this time as a true question:
Would you would give up your vote if you were convinced that only liberals were in power from now on? In other words, would you be cool with your vote not counting one bit, as long as the outcome was liberalism, and (conservative) Republicans were out of the picture?
If you expect me to take you the least bit seriously, I expect you to answer this question honestly.
As far as Panama: Have you ever heard of the Panama Canal Treaty of 1977?
You accuse me of ignorance…
Chinese interests have since purchased control of the Panama canal. The zone that was once populated with Americans is now populated with Chinese.
What this means is that Carter was more concerned about liberalism than he was about protecting this country, and THAT is EXACTLY what Bush was so ineloquently referring to.
Your comment about “brown people” is interesting, since you have absolutely ZERO idea what my racial heritage is. You are insinuating that I am racist, while you make these unfair and stereotypical judgments based on your own anger more than anything else. I’m making you angry, and you are becoming unhinged, because your argument is too weak, so you resort to calling me names and making false claims. I hope you realize that such an attempt to shut me up with nothing but bitterness makes you look like a radical. It also make YOU the racist since you seem to be saying that “brown people” cannot be conservatives. You’d be dead wrong about that. EDITED TO TAKE OUT RACIST COMMENTS.
Also, the fact you even say “brown people” is not very politically correct of you. You should apologize to “brown people” everywhere, including Barak Hussein Obama, who happens to be 50% “brown”.
May 18, 2008 at 2:51 pm
Do you seriously have reading comprehension problems Brent. Or maybe just tracking problems because you seem to forget from one moment to the next what you were just saying.
Really you’re a waste of time but I really have to wonder about your concern about Florida voters. Where were you when Bush was stealing the 2000 election by not counting ballots in Florida? You people are such
Really, Iran didn’t have any power in Iraq until we invaded it but logic isn’t your strong suit isn’t it. And you people are just fine with the destruction of Israel as long as it’s destroyed by the “rapture righties”. Then it’s just fine with you people if Israel and the Jewish people either join up as “born again” or perish.
May 18, 2008 at 3:00 pm
Blame Carter, blame Gore, but take no personal responsibility, that’s the Republican way. I addressed the Panama Canal which wasn’t taken over until 1999. Why didn’t your people stop it. And under Reagan the Japanese could do whatever they want. And starting under Clinton and escalating under Bush China has had a free reign. That’s why so many of us don’t support Hillary. When did you people ever blame your party for anything. I voted for Reagan the first time and I’m sorry I did. But that doesn’t mean I wouldn’t vote for a Republican again. It would just have to be somebody with a clue and that doesn’t seem forthcoming.
May 18, 2008 at 3:04 pm
For those who don’t seem to know what Michelle Obama was talking about when she said what she said about being proud of America, the context of the remarks, repeated ad nauseum by liberal-bashers, makes it quite clear what she meant.
She was talking about voter participation in the democratic process, and it was in this sense that she said that for the first time in her adult life, she was proud to be an American [namely, because voter participation in the democratic process was higher than ever.]
Now, if someone wanted to go on believing what the right-wing media is saying, that she was talking about being proud of America in general and nothing to do with voting, then that someone would be a moron.
May 18, 2008 at 3:27 pm
In addition she said “really proud” but it’s hard to find the original comment although on most of the copies doctored by the right wing you hear part of the “really ” if you want to see it.
May 18, 2008 at 3:28 pm
I don’t know Wayne but we’re a country that elected the biggest idiot in recent history. Or let the biggest idiot steal the presidency one. What’s to be so proud of really?
May 18, 2008 at 3:31 pm
Brent uses a Rooster with a flag draped behind it. Very funny and stupid at the same time, just like Brent only Brent is just plain stupid.
Sometimes the trash (Brent) just stops by and opens it mouth and starts to stink up the place.
May 18, 2008 at 3:38 pm
I never said it was intelligent participation, just participation.
We, the ones on the left who like to see people get educated and not be fed moronic talking points filled with strawman arguments, have to do a better job of teaching people. Even if we have to do it one person at a time. (Let them educate the next one on their side, and save us the hard work.)
May 18, 2008 at 3:39 pm
Cats,
In this context, I think it’s not a “rooster”, I think it’s a “cock”.
May 18, 2008 at 4:50 pm
A cat an a wolf are much “cooler”…Too bad you do not know the significance behind it.
Shayne, I gave you the opportunity to answer the question. You refuse. Your argument is a joke –it really isn’t even an argument.
As far as stealing an election, will you please provide some credible proof of that? There were five recounts and Bush won them all. It was Gore who was trying to go beyond the Constitutions rules in such a close election.
By the way, I’m not a Republican, and I voted for the Gore /Lieberman ticket in 2000.
Again with the assumptions about me, not know anything whatsoever about me other than my name.
I am educated; pursuing a Master’s Degree. And you?
Are trying to suggest that Regan could have broken a Treaty? The damage was already done. Nice try.
Such what? What people? I do not belong to a party or a wing. I am an American nationalist. I vote for the best candidate, not along party lines.
Yes, I have a conservative philosophy that is not dissimilar to that of the founders of this country (minus the slavery). Politicians in general have ruined this country, but never have I EVER said that I “hate the system”. Thanks for putting words in my mouth.
Just so you are clear. NOBODY SPEAKS FOR ME BUT ME. I do not repeat talking points. Again, this blog article is based on talking points! Are you immune to your own criticism?
Unbelievable…
I’ll aks you for the third time,. and perhaps one of you has the balls to answer my simple yes or no question: Would you would give up your vote if you were convinced that only liberals were in power from now on? In other words, would you be cool with your vote not counting one bit, as long as the outcome was liberalism, and (conservative) Republicans were out of the picture?
Are you afraid to answer this because I have exposed you?
News flash: Republicans get just as much blame. We are talking about Obama, or Carter or Chamberlain, or someone — YOU!
Shayne, what the hell are you talking about? Get off the weed dude… Who are “you people”? You sir, are a bigot, there is no denying that. You stereotype, categorize, and make assumptions about people –which is EXACTLY the opposite that MLK preached.
I am not fine with the destruction of Israel, I support our friends in Israel. Do you? Your tone seems a bit anti-Semitic to me. Perhaps I’m overreacting, but something tells me that I’m right (my instincts are usually correct).
As far as Iranian power in Iraq, I am talking about influence. Do you want yet another radical Islamic regime? Are you (Just like Carter) satisfied with that?
The context of Bush’s speech is this: It is absolutely unacceptable to allow Iran to obtain nuclear weapons, given their intention to destroy Israel. What part of that do you not understand, unless you agree with Iran? We hope diplomacy works, but so far the E.U., the U.N. and the US. has failed. Where is your criticism of the U.N. or E.U. for their failures at diplomacy? It just proves my point that it does not work…
May 18, 2008 at 4:58 pm
Edited to take out racist comments? What was racist about it? I linked to the Jeremiah Wright video. That is racist? Are you out of your minds? Is criticism of Obama or Wright automatically racist to you people? Or is saying Obama’s middle name racist? If it is then why did his mama name him that? Is it racist of me to point out Wright’s racism? Are they somehow immune from criticism?
This blog is a joke! You edited my comment, that wasn’t even racist! You did it to tell a lie on me! Real grown up. Oh well, I run circles around you in a debate, so all you can do is censor me. How pathetic is that?
You are nothing but liars who are not even worth having a debate with.
See you in January when President Elect John McCain is sworn into office. I cannot wait for the looks on your face when Obama loses big time. Mark my words…it’ll happen just like I said. Can’t wait.
It’s not that I even care, but it will be extremely fun for me to watch you become unhinged and fall right over the cliff yet again.
May 18, 2008 at 5:51 pm
No, I would not give up my vote if I were convinced that only Liberals would be in charge. I wouldn’t have to, nor would those Liberals want me to, because Liberals would want to know how I felt about the issues, too. Besides, I am a Liberal Libertarian, with a distrust of a government even if it’s doing what I want it to do. I want the press watching it to make sure.
May 18, 2008 at 5:59 pm
We know you’ll be back, Brent. And we welcome the opportunity to discuss the topics of the thread any time. If you stick around, I’m sure you’ll see something else you’d like to express an opinion on, and you should.
As for me (I can’t claim this is true of all of the other Critters), I like to see how “the other side” (i.e., Conservatives in general) view things, and I compare those views to my own. I follow the conclusions they reach from the facts with which they start. If those facts are, indeed, “factual” (as opposed to some random piece nonsense tripe from an ideology, such as “Everyone wants Democracy”), then I try to see if the logic follows correctly. If it does, and I reach the same conclusion, then I examine my own beliefs to see why I feel the answer is different than the one I thought. And, Brent, I have to tell you that ever since the Republicans took control of Congress in ‘94, I have very rarely found that my beliefs were wrong. And the reason was that the right wong was not arguing with facts, but with ideology substitued for fact.
So I, for one, welcome the opportunity to future discussions. Either way, thanks for coming by and have a good day.
May 18, 2008 at 6:13 pm
Brent, I would not give up my vote ever for any reason. Sorry you feel I was intentionally avoiding that question. I thought I had answered it when I said I voted for Ronald Reagan once. I also wasn’t supporting the most liberal Democratic candidate.
“Five recounts and Bush won them all.” That’s the way you remember it?
If I was placing money on anything it would be that you DID NOT vote for Al Gore. Why lie?
May 18, 2008 at 7:27 pm
My vote hasn’t counted since the day I moved to Idaho, but I have never missed voting — wouldn’t dream of it. What’s the point of that quetion anyway?
Who is this Brent chicken dude? Every time anyone answers a question, he goes off in another direction.
May 18, 2008 at 8:29 pm
Great! Thanks for answering the question. I was mistaken about you guys. I apologize because you did not answer the way I had expected you to. I have asked other people this, and they fell right into the trap. You folks are okay, and even though I tend to disagree with a lot of what you have to say, I have respect for you as fellow Americans, citizens and voters.
I’d like to call a truce with the promise to keep all debate civil and fair. Name calling is not necessary. We can share our ideas without being rude or mean.
I hate to think what the world would be like if everyone thought exactly the same way.
Yes, I did vote for Gore/Lieberman in 2000. Not my proudest moment looking back on it, but it seemed like a good idea at the time. I think that since the election Gore has become a bit wacky, and I also believe that the global warming thing is way over hyped and there is a lot of fear mongering going on in that regard. I agree with what McCain says, when he asks “what will it hurt to be green?” I personally am all for it, as long as it is a step forward, not backward.
I am still a big fan of Lieberman, and would be happy to see McCain choose him as his running mate. Anything is possible in this election.
I’m glad that you like a more conservative perspective to participate in the discussion.
Just to be very clear, I am not this warmongering racist bigot that a few folks in here have painted me to be. I am a nonviolent Catholic who wants peace in the world. I understand that this is much easier said than done, especially with so much evil, oppression and death in the world.
I believe that the old Latin adage Si vis pacem, para bellum probably best describes my position on the topic.
Can you guys do me a favor, por favor? Can you guys cite an example where Obama specifically calls for world peace. I know he talks about pulling troops out of Iraq, but I cannot recall his saying anything about peace, just that the war is the wrong place at the wrong time or something like that. It all sounds like blah, blah, blah at this point to me. Hasn’t this election campaign lasted about two years already? Am I the only one who is a bit sick and bored with it at this point?
If you guys can find examples of that –quotes/links, etc. that would be awesome.
Look, I want the best for ALL Americans, not just some groups of people that a party supports. As a loyal citizen, patriot and nationalist, I feel that it is my duty (and yours) to find out as much as possible about ALL of the candidates. What if you found out your guy (or gal) is not the person you thought they were? The best thing to do is research and find lots of info, then share it with your friends, internet blog/forum/chat buddies, whomever. This way, you can make a solid and clear judgment about who will be the best leader for this country –someone who will lead us into a future of prosperity, individual liberty and ownership.
As much technology we have –as much as the press is everywhere 24/7, there is no excuse for anymore surprises about the candidates.
May 18, 2008 at 8:41 pm
Brent, welcome to the Zoo. We don’t always have to agree with everyone who posts here — that would make us akin to Redstate — civil debate is always appreciated.
I’m glad you’re interested in finding out as much as possible about candidates, you should start by thoroughly researching Lieberman, then McCain.
Maybe you’ve already done that, and everything they stand for is peachy with you. I would be interested in knowing why you feel that way.
BTW, we’re not all “guys,” we Critters are men and women, and one polar bear. Also, I’m posting on the road, so I’m not likely to answer any questions in a timely manner. Thanks.
May 19, 2008 at 6:34 am
I didn’t mean guys literally.
I never said that I am peachy with McCain. I’m not even sure that I will vote for him. I am 100% positive that I will not vote for Obama. I do not trust him even more than I do not trust Bush, and that is saying a lot!
I pray for our country and it’s lack of decent leadership on all levels.
I was hoping that Paul would be the Libertarian candidate again, but it didn’t work out that way this time. Perhaps Bob Barr is worth a consideration, although he is nowhere close to being as engaging with the people as Ron Paul.
I do think that John McCain is a decent man, and out of the three candidates, by far the most honest and most honorable. The man is a patriot and a national hero. Does that qualify him to be president? Not necessarily. If experience is the criteria for qualification, McCain has almost anyone beat!
Did you see his bit on SNL? The man has a great sense of humor.
May 23, 2008 at 6:51 am
By the way, I was only pulling your leg, you truly make me nauseous.
May 23, 2008 at 8:28 am
Then by all means, Brent, take yourself away from here. I wouldn’t want you to be sick.