Dennis Kucinich read these Article of Impeachment into the Congressional Record last night, to an empty House of Representatives. I’ve been cruising around the televised Corporate Media this morning, and have been shamed to find no mention of this event. Lots of talk about poison tomatoes, the Democrats’ efforts to tax the windfall profits of Big Oil, and snow in Washington state.
I guess it’s up to the bloggers to help get the word out. These are simply the Articles and the title of each. Go to the link above to find the detailed text of the charges. Here goes….
Article I
Creating a Secret Propaganda Campaign to Manufacture a False Case for War Against Iraq.
Article II
Falsely, Systematically, and with Criminal Intent Conflating the Attacks of September 11, 2001, With
Misrepresentation of Iraq as a Security Threat as Part of Fraudulent Justification for a War of Aggression.
Article III
Misleading the American People and Members of Congress to Believe Iraq Possessed Weapons of Mass Destruction, to Manufacture a False Case for War.
Article IV
Misleading the American People and Members of Congress to Believe Iraq Posed an Imminent Threat to the United States.
Article V
Illegally Misspending Funds to Secretly Begin a War of Aggression.
Article VI
Invading Iraq in Violation of the Requirements of HJRes114.
Article VII
Invading Iraq Absent a Declaration of War.
Article VIII
Invading Iraq, A Sovereign Nation, in Violation of the UN Charter.
Article IX
Failing to Provide Troops With Body Armor and Vehicle Armor.
Article X
Falsifying Accounts of US Troop Deaths and Injuries for Political Purposes.
Article XI
Establishment of Permanent U.S. Military Bases in Iraq.
Article XII
Initiating a War Against Iraq for Control of That Nation’s Natural Resources.
Article XIIII
Creating a Secret Task Force to Develop Energy and Military Policies With Respect to Iraq and Other Countries.
Article XIV
Misprision of a Felony, Misuse and Exposure of Classified Information And Obstruction of Justice in the Matter of Valerie Plame Wilson, Clandestine Agent of the Central Intelligence Agency.
Article XV
Providing Immunity from Prosecution for Criminal Contractors in Iraq.
Article XVI
Reckless Misspending and Waste of U.S. Tax Dollars in Connection With Iraq and US Contractors.
Article XVII
Illegal Detention: Detaining Indefinitely And Without Charge Persons Both U.S. Citizens and Foreign Captives.
Article XVIII
Torture: Secretly Authorizing, and Encouraging the Use of Torture Against Captives in Afghanistan, Iraq, and Other Places, as a Matter of Official Policy.
Article XIX
Rendition: Kidnapping People and Taking Them Against Their Will to “Black Sites” Located in Other Nations, Including Nations Known to Practice Torture.
Article XX
Imprisoning Children.
Article XXI
Misleading Congress and the American People About Threats from Iran, and Supporting Terrorist
Organizations Within Iran, With the Goal of Overthrowing the Iranian Government.
Article XXII
Creating Secret Laws.
Article XXIII
Violation of the Posse Comitatus Act.
Article XXIV
Spying on American Citizens, Without a Court-Ordered Warrant, in Violation of the Law and the Fourth Amendment.
Article XXV
Directing Telecommunications Companies to Create an Illegal and Unconstitutional Database of the
Private Telephone Numbers and Emails of American Citizens.
Article XXVI
Announcing the Intent to Violate Laws with Signing Statements.
Article XXVII
Failing to Comply with Congressional Subpoenas and Instructing Former Employees Not to Comply.
Article XXVIII
Tampering with Free and Fair Elections, Corruption of the Administration of Justice.
Article XXIX
Conspiracy to Violate the Voting Rights Act of 1965.
Article XXX
Misleading Congress and the American People in an Attempt to Destroy Medicare.
Article XXXI
Katrina: Failure to Plan for the Predicted Disaster of Hurricane Katrina, Failure to Respond to a Civil
Emergency.
Article XXXII
Misleading Congress and the American People, Systematically Undermining Efforts to Address Global Climate Change.
Article XXXIII
Repeatedly Ignored and Failed to Respond to High Level Intelligence Warnings of Planned Terrorist
Attacks in the US, Prior to 911.
Article XXXIV
Obstruction of the Investigation into the Attacks of September 11, 2001.
Article XXXV
Endangering the Health of 911 First Responders.
HT to The Wolverine & spencersmom for the text and link. Thanks!
66 Comments
June 10, 2008 at 9:46 am
Do something:
http://www.afterdowningstreet.org/bush/
June 10, 2008 at 9:47 am
Congress has 72 hours to act on this otherwise it goes by the wayside. We need to blitz our Representatives and House Speaker Nancy Pelosi.
June 10, 2008 at 9:50 am
GET #*($&#$*( Nancy a %&$#*($& Table!
June 10, 2008 at 9:58 am
Certainly can’t argue with any of those articles. Can we also impeach 80% of the complicit congress and 55% of the complicit electorate?
June 10, 2008 at 10:05 am
I just wrote Nancy Pelosi. If she even bothers to read it, her hair will catch fire.
June 10, 2008 at 10:08 am
I wrote to Nancy Pelosi and I called her office. The phone calls are great because it keeps her staff busy. If you are not in her district then you need to use the Speaker of the House contact. I also wrote and called my Representative.
June 10, 2008 at 10:13 am
Don’t just ask them to support the articles, ask them to go on record explaining why they are (or more likely are not) supporting this.
To me, its vital to know why this is ‘off the table’, so that we can ask that question come election time….
June 10, 2008 at 10:13 am
I emailed my rep, Bill Sali. I’m not going to bother calling him, he’s a 25%er and a total fuckwit.
June 10, 2008 at 10:42 am
In case anyone is interested, found this Diary at DailyKos… it lists Conyers reasons NOT to impeach.
http://www.dailykos.com/story/2008/6/10/22411/1486/764/533179
June 10, 2008 at 11:49 am
I agree with Conyers’ reasoning, and I found the rebuttals weak. In fact, Conyers doesn’t go far enough because he doesn’t point out that an impeachment battle now reduces the likelihood of real criminal prosecution later.
We should relish Kucinich’s truth-telling, but not cut off our nose to spite our face. There will be time for proper ass-kicking later.
June 10, 2008 at 1:11 pm
Gorn, with all due respect, I respectfully disagree with your assessment.
this excerpt ripped from the diary Cats linked to earlier
Mosquito Pilot said:
If we care about the Constitution, the outcomes don’t matter–what matters is that we follow the process provided by the Constitution. If we don’t follow the process, we’re just that much further “off the map” and into the world of “rule of power” rather than “rule of law”.
Respect the Constitution. Impeach and let the outcome be whatever it will be.
Question time:
1.) Can we all agree that the transgressions of this administrator rise to the level of “high crimes and misdemeanors”?
2.) Is the Constitution the guiding document that provides the legal framework for the organization of the United States government or is it as Tricky Dick Cheney said “a God[censored] piece of paper?
I don’t recall seeing the words “political expediency” anywhere in the copies that I have read. And as for “costing the Democratic party to the chance to regain the White House” I respectfully disagree with that assessment as well. I think that the reluctance of Congress to do ANYTHING about this matter for a year and a half will come back to bite us ALL in the end.
For me, it is remarkably simple; are we a nation of laws or aren’t we?
If the answer to that question is yes, the Constitution is pretty specific about what to do to resolve the situation.
June 10, 2008 at 1:34 pm
I still love ya Gorn but agree with Noeke17 1000%…May I also add there was a few article’s out awhile back that showed when impeachment was in the work’s the party that was doing the impeaching won handily at the next election cycle…
For any one thinking we should wait untill after this bunch of crud is out of office may I remind you the patriot act protect’s them after they leave..Sorry I don’t have the info handy…
Off calling and emailing every one possible…Blessings to you all as you go about your day…
June 10, 2008 at 1:40 pm
Did you see this bullshit from Salon?
Feel free to go voice your displeasure at this. I did.
http://www.salon.com/politics/war_room/2008/06/10/kucinich/index.html
June 10, 2008 at 1:47 pm
I called my rep, too. Like you, Z, he has both Cheney and Bush’s full packages in his mouth.
June 10, 2008 at 1:48 pm
I hate to pile on, Gorn, but I’m with neoke and witch#1.
I would add that I think Conyers’ excuses for not impeaching seem weak to me, and demonstrate a distinct lack of confidence in the American people. Maybe that’s deserved, I don’t know, but I certainly don’t appreciate his attitude.
We must adhere to the Constitution, not play political games.
June 10, 2008 at 1:51 pm
Nice response to that hack, MizzJ.
June 10, 2008 at 1:59 pm
I’m sending a virtual can of gas to palosi to go along with the the hair on fire moment you sent her Lady Z…..LOL…For all you do critter’s, I thank you……Blessings
June 10, 2008 at 2:16 pm
I havn’t watched CNN for month’s but decided to this morning since nothing else was coming down the pike…..Just now Cafferty (the only guy I like there ) had a short clip about the Mcclellen thing next week and Kucinich last night…He ended it with a question ( ” Who gave Palosi authority to take impeachment off the table?”) said that was a question he would like answered but likely would never know…..Blessings all
June 10, 2008 at 2:18 pm
Don’t know how the smily face got there but it’s cute and I’ll take it….Blessings
June 10, 2008 at 2:35 pm
witch1
June 10, 2008 at 1:59 pm
For all you do critter’s, I thank you
In my estimation dear Witch, it is US who are in YOUR debt for your kind wisdom and sage counsel.
I know your words have brightened my day many a day.
Say, anybody hear from BnF today? I know he had to bail early in the evening last night and I would love to hear what he had to say about the events last night.
June 10, 2008 at 2:38 pm
He’ll be along, neoke.
June 10, 2008 at 2:40 pm
neoke17 says:
“For me, it is remarkably simple; are we a nation of laws or aren’t we?”
Thanks for making that so clear.
This is the basic question that is easily buried and then avoided by thoughts of politics, personal anger or apathy.
For me the answer can only be yes. And that means we must pursue impeachment.
I add my voice to those pushing for impeachment, now.
Conyers’ list seems to encompass those major complaints that are most voiced by most everyone. If these are successfully rebutted, the case to proceed is greatly enhanced as there is no reason not to. That politically necessity said, the philosophical reality advanced by neoke17, overrides, and negates the objections raised.
In all political discussions, we must go to the ideological and philosophical base of the issue at hand, or we are wasting valuable time and effort.
June 10, 2008 at 2:48 pm
By all means, pile on folks. This is not an echo chamber, right?
I believe you have the right idea, but the wrong implementation. It seems to me there is a distinct confusion over just what impeachment is all about.
Impeachment is about a Congress-initiated removal of an official from office. It is not about criminal prosecution, which is truly the desired goal here. How satisfied are you going to feel if you win the impeachment battle, and the resulting backlash is McCain winning the White House and pardoning these criminals? Can you not see the forest for the trees?
Impeachment will not bring back a single dead soldier or civilian, and will not return money to our treasury. All it would do, at best, is give us a President Pelosi for a month or two.
If you really believe in the Constitution and the rule of law, then skip the impeachment and go straight to criminal investigation and prosecution. Impeachment might make you feel good but it will have no meaningful impact on the problems of the world or bringing the guilty to justice. It might, in fact, have the diametrically opposite effect.
Zooey – We must adhere to the Constitution, not play political games.
Impeachment is allowed by the Constitution. It is not required by it. We are adhering to the Constitution in allowing the ordinary transfer of power following the election.
As I’ve said before, the time for impeachment was immediately after the midterm elections – when there was meaningful enough time to get value from it, but Pelosi infamously took impeachment off the table, betraying the voter’s will. In my view, Pelosi is a criminal as well. Should we reward her with a presidency? What about sticking up for the Constitution rather than rewarding her for her political cowardice?
At this point, five months before the election to replace Bush, there is no value in impeachment other than vengeance. But criminal prosecution is more important than shaving a month or two off of Bush and Cheney’s lame duck tenure, and that’s where the focus should be.
Being pragmatic and efficient is not the same as selling out for political expedience. On the contrary, what I propose goes further than what would likely result from impeachment, quite the contrary from what y’all are suggesting.
To put rest to this fantasy, please understand that even if the votes exist for impeachment (possibly but not that likely), certainly the votes don’t exist for conviction. Thus, this game would not even result in removal of these animals from their office.
It seems to me, this is all about making us feel good (temporarily) and nothing about achieving meaningful results. Nothing short of jail time is acceptable, in my view.
June 10, 2008 at 3:04 pm
Or, if you want the shorter version:
“I’m right and you’re wrong! Neener neener neener!”
June 10, 2008 at 3:13 pm
gorn by any other name says at
June 10, 2008 at 2:48 pm
“It seems to me, this is all about making us feel good (temporarily) and nothing about achieving meaningful results.”
Your judgments on others reasons for their choice may, in some cases be correct, but they are not mine as my post above clearly indicates.
“Meaningful results” is the wrong over riding goal to seek. That should be secondary in my view. If impeachable offenses have been committed impeachment should be pursued regardless of the results.
You also said:
“Nothing short of jail time is acceptable, in my view.”
And in this view I heartily concur. However, I am not optimistic that anything will be pursued after Jan. 20, 2009. Much less so than pursuing impeachment now. With that in mind, is it wise to “sell our soul” now, for a hope or fantasy of future justice?
What do you see as happening next year, regarding bringing these criminals to justice? What would be your plan.
June 10, 2008 at 3:29 pm
merlinps,
First, let me be clear that I am definitely not ridiculing anyone’s motives or reasons. I believe we all have common general consensus regarding the Bush crime family.
I’d like to comment on this:
I am not optimistic that anything will be pursued after Jan. 20, 2009.
I would be lying to say I am optimistic about it either. But if a Democratic-controlled Congress and White House is not willing to pursue an independent criminal investigation when they have all the power and ability to do so, this tells us something meaningful about who we will have elected.
With that in mind, is it wise to “sell our soul” now, for a hope or fantasy of future justice?
And here I must disagree, for these reasons:
1. Impeachment is not a mechanism for meting out justice. It is merely a mechanism for removing someone from office. Those who are engaged in fantasy are the ones who seem to think an impeachment will in any way bring justice to the criminals. As I’ve said, it won’t even remove them from office because a two thirds vote is required. It is madness to think that will ever happen.
2. In believing this to be a pointless and possibly counterproductive way to deal with Bush, I am not selling my soul. Souls were sold during Bush’s first six years when the Democrats capitulated spinelessly and cravenly to the obvious lies and propaganda of the Bush administration. Souls were sold during the mid-term elections when Pelosi took impeachment off the table. No last minute fantasy will fix what Pelosi has broken.
Playing this card now will only create a greater amount of sympathy for the criminals, who will already be seen as having paid a price, and the press will decry the divisiveness of what will be positioned as a witch hunt.
I think people need to have a little better handle on the zeitgeist that makes the world turn. Wanting something to be so doesn’t make it so.
June 10, 2008 at 3:37 pm
Another sign of the zeitgeist: are there any major media outlets who have even mentioned Kucinich’s action, much less given it 100 point type on the front page? Not that I can find.
Conventional “wisdom” is that Kucinich is a fringe nut. Conventional “wisdom” is that bleating about impeachment at this stage is vindictive and politically motivated. I do NOT agree with this conventional “wisdom”, obviously, but it is what it is.
Pursuing this is a waste of time. What might be worthwhile, though, is to write / call all your representatives and tell them that although you are fully in agreement with all of Kucinich’s points, what you demand of them is to open a criminal investigation, within the next six months, or else you will actively campaign against them in the next election cycle.
If they hear enough of that, we may actually get the desired result.
June 10, 2008 at 3:50 pm
Thank you for your kind word’s Noeke17, you made this old woman blush…
To Gorn and all, I’m not into vendettas only justice..My thought’s are to have impeachment on the record in the house senate and comittee….Investigation’s should be ongoing and ferreted out..When that is done then criminal charge’s should also follow, keep in mind our hand’s are tied once this bunch is out and Obama has only mentioned litely he will check it out….
If we do not follow through and fix what has been broken we will continue to limp along and the wrong’s will get bigger…The next administration then the next and so on…We the people have lost our voice and chance to make these people accountable for their crime’s, yes, that include’s people like palosi…Now we must take it back the only way I see us doing that is through the constitution and impeachment first…It is not just a piece of paper it is our law’s and guide to reuniting our country and giving us our power back….Letting this slide or ignoring impeachment say’s we allow these people in power to continue their power grab’s….This may be our last best chance…..Blessings
June 10, 2008 at 4:49 pm
“1. Impeachment is not a mechanism for meting out justice.”
This is not my point or desire as I indicated. I feel it needs to be done because it “should be.” I don’t expect anything to happen at all given the political reality.
“It is merely a mechanism for removing someone from office.”
I believe it is more than that. The separation of powers and Congress’ will to stand up to this power grab of unitary governance and criminal power must be challenged. Impeachment is the best mechanism to do that when the Executive has become criminal.
Regarding the selling of souls. I agree that those you mentioned have done just that. I was referring to me (and us) out here in the public. I have a personal choice to make and I won’t make it on the basis of whether or not others have done so or not. For me to say that because it won’t bring justice it is not worth pursuing, sounds rather negative and defeatist to me. (Well, it won’t work, so never mind. No point in doing it.) My choice will be based on what I believe to be right, and let the chips fall where they may.
“Playing this card now will only create a greater amount of sympathy for the criminals, who will already be seen as having paid a price, and the press will decry the divisiveness of what will be positioned as a witch hunt.”
I do disagree here. The polls indicate the public is already against this neocon cabal. More information (the real stuff as opposed to the Clinton fiasco) will push the uninformed public to anger. As you rightly point out the media is not “on board” here, but as has been shown in the few elections where BushCo has been strongly challenged, the people have reacted positively. There is no way in my mind that they will get sympathy. I believe that we need to counter the lies and distortions enabled by the media with every means available! And with a loud voice.
“I think people need to have a little better handle on the zeitgeist that makes the world turn.”
I see the zeitgeist as 3 seperate happenings. 1. The neocon view. 2. The view promoted by the media 3. The view of the general public.
You see the first two trumping the 3rd. I will agree with you, if things stay the way they are. However, the public is not on board the neocon train anymore. And with louder and persistent voices (note that KO just passed Oliely in listenership) even many of the uninformed will become aware. When people believe they have been deceived and lied to they get pissed. Congress will react to strong public outcry. Witness the huge negative effect the wingnut right has had, even though their numbers are small. Our apathy creates the void they then fill. I also believe that if the public zeitgeist swells, change is inevitable. Obama is correctly reading that public zeitgeist and has gone from an unknown to the presumptive nominee against all odds and advice. We need to reject the conventional wisdom that pervades the political world that only Washington is right, and all powerful, so you have to play by their rules. Let’s attack on all fronts with persistence and guts.
And I still would like your take on how you believe we should pursue justice after Jan 2009, that will work.
June 10, 2008 at 5:03 pm
Bravo Merlinps…Great post and Thank you for posting….Blessings
June 10, 2008 at 5:42 pm
The clerk is reading the Articles of Impeachment on C-Span.
Apparently they needed to be read again. I’m glad Dennis didn’t have to do it.
June 10, 2008 at 6:11 pm
I think the idea that impeachment would be bad for Democratic candidates is a false premise thereby making the whole argument wrong. With all the crimes committed by this administration how can bringing these to light be bad for Democrats. After all it was a Republican controlled congress that allowed it to go unchallenged. And since the Democrats took impeachment off the table their ratings are down as low as Bush’s.
The Republican congress allowed this all to happen by chosing politics over what was the right thing to do. And the Democrats are now doing the same thing. Doing nothing is more likely to cost them votes than starting impeachment proceeding would do. They’ve had a year to do something and we are that much closer to war with Iran. The Democrats are complicit now.
June 10, 2008 at 6:12 pm
In my view, we’re really fundamentally on the same side, so I won’t beat on this horse too much longer. But let me contribute just a couple of points here.
I believe it [impeachment] is more than that [removal from office]. The separation of powers and Congress’ will to stand up to this power grab of unitary governance and criminal power must be challenged. Impeachment is the best mechanism to do that when the Executive has become criminal.
I’m no legal scholar, but my understanding of impeachment is that its sole legal purpose is a precursor to removing an official from office. That’s it.
Now beyond the legal aspect, there is certainly a “public spectacle” aspect that may or may not be beneficial to deeper causes. I won’t argue that it would not be highly satisfying to see the cabal dragged through the mud via the public stage of impeachment proceedings, but that’s really a side effect. The end result I want to see is the cabal in jail, and impeachment will not produce that result. That’s simply a fact, so far as I understand it.
For me to say that because it won’t bring justice it is not worth pursuing, sounds rather negative and defeatist to me.
That really isn’t quite what I’m saying. What I’m saying is that if it PREVENTS justice then it is not worth pursuing.
The polls indicate the public is already against this neocon cabal.
Perhaps, but don’t make the mistake of thinking its a lock. A large portion of the population does not and never will get it. Another large portion is easily swayed by swift boating and Rovian propaganda.
I agree that the majority of people do not like Bush, and those who are aware do not like the neocons. However, many people who fall into that category will not vote Democratic. There are plenty of conservatives disgusted with Bush and the neocon agenda, and they will vote McCain. There are others who may feel similarly, who never the less will not vote for a black man. That’s reality.
Right now, Obama and McCain are statistically tied in most polls, very slight edge to Obama. There is not much room for error here. If McCain ekes out a win, all is lost. Justice will never be served.
I want nothing to happen that will push borderline voters to vote for McCain, because then all is lost. It might be worth it if the upside was putting Bush in jail, but with impeachment the only upside (which won’t happen anyway) is removal from office a month or two early.
And I still would like your take on how you believe we should pursue justice after Jan 2009, that will work.
I thought I gave it. I would like to see the following process:
1) Obama wins the White House (top priority)
2) Democrats strengthen their position in Congress
3) The justice department begins to eliminate political hacks that were put in place by Bush
4) Congress appoints an independent special prosecutor to investigate every item identified in the articles of impeachment
5) Justice takes its course
That’s the way to get this done, in my opinion.
June 10, 2008 at 6:20 pm
Absolutely, Shayne.
The Democrats have handed the Republicans the only argument they’ll need: What took you so long?
June 10, 2008 at 6:23 pm
Shayne: I think the idea that impeachment would be bad for Democratic candidates is a false premise thereby making the whole argument wrong.
Impeachment after the midterm would have been a great thing, but Reid and Pelosi screwed the pooch. Impeachment five months before the general election is just a grand opportunity for Democrats to shoot themselves in the foot.
Look, I’ve made my case. Either you agree or you don’t. That’s what makes TheZoo an interesting place.
In the end it doesn’t matter because as much as we might want to see Bush escorted out of the WH prior to Jan 20, here and now I give my personal guarantee that it will not happen. It will not even be close.
June 10, 2008 at 6:28 pm
You may very well be right, gorn.
I just think we still need to push for the hearings. I’m so scared that if we let this go, nothing will happen after BushCo is gone.
Pelosi and Conyers are responsible for this clusterfuck.
June 10, 2008 at 6:32 pm
I’ll say it again. Even if nothing happens, it is part of the Congressional Record. That matters. If Congress doesn’t stand up for what is right, history will nail them for it. But regardless, it happened and now it is part of the Congressional Record part of history, recorded for all time.
Really.. Write to Dennis Kucinich and thank him. This may lose him his Congressional race. He did the right thing when it mattered, no matter the cost to himself. That is the sign of a true patriot. Not a lapel pin…
That is the sign of a man of courage, conviction, and commitment to this country and this Constitution, and to what is right.
June 10, 2008 at 6:35 pm
Zooey, if nothing else at least Kucinich put this on the public record. That by itself is already a very good thing, even if it won’t be widely appreciated until future generations.
June 10, 2008 at 6:36 pm
Oh, muse beat me to it.
June 10, 2008 at 6:37 pm
And very well said, by the way. I agree 100% with everything in your post.
June 10, 2008 at 6:40 pm
I stand as alway’s with what I have said before..Let me give you a tiny bit of info on me….I am a Libra along with being a true witch…Any one that know’s me know’s I am loyal and forgiving….
Lot’s of people I respect do not alway’s agree with me nor do I agree with them all the time but still I stand with them on many other issues…I maintain their friend ship’s by listening, reading and adding my comment’s with out conflect…
Being a libra which is the sign of the justice scale’s make’s me alway’s study all side’s to the point it at time’s can be diffacult to come to a quick conclusion…
I would not break the law, take a life except in self defence nor betray a friend or my country for any reason..Having said all that I will not nor can I condone any one in any party doeing harm to my country, her people or people of the world for any reason and will work hard to pramote truth, justice and Peace….Blessings all
June 10, 2008 at 6:41 pm
Thanks Gorn.
I can’t believe how emotional I got last night listening to the entire thing. It has been so horribly trying listening to the news each and every day for the last seven years, hearing every new crime and outrage, listening to the number of people who lost their lives or their families and livelihood, and watching Congress (both sides) standing by and just letting it happen. I cried last night after finally hearing someone standing up, putting it all together and saying it out loud. Even if nothing happens, it has been acknowledged. It happened. I still have hope that there will be a time for accounting.
June 10, 2008 at 6:41 pm
We’re all on the same side here. We just look at the thing from different angles, which is a good thing.
I’m just glad it’s getting some coverage — and it’s in the Congressional record FOREVER.
June 10, 2008 at 6:45 pm
witch1, well said. You are a good woman.
June 10, 2008 at 6:48 pm
Muse, maybe one reason I’ve been a little bit dispassionate about this is because I didn’t listen to it. I only read it after the fact, which was already pretty astounding. If I’d actually heard it I’d probably be gushing gorilla tears to beat the band. I wish we lived in a world where Dennis Kucinich was actually taken seriously outside of a blog.
And witch – may your broom always fly you straight and true.
June 10, 2008 at 6:52 pm
Since there is no guarantee that prosecution of these guys will be started after the election it is unwise to do nothing now. After all the sacrifices made by the people of this country to give us our independence and keep us strong, it is frightening that now nobody is, except maybe Kucinich, is willing to take a chance to restore our reputation and our legacy. Hitler did what he did because good people did nothing. Are we not better than that?
June 10, 2008 at 6:55 pm
I couldn’t believe how stressful it was to watch Kucinich reading the articles last night. By the end, I was a physical wreck. All that information jammed together into a four hour period was overwhelming.
June 10, 2008 at 7:02 pm
Shayne, it is harder work to be dispassionate in pursuit of a broader goal than to be impetuous to obtain a narrower one. Trying to chart the best course for a greater good is not the same thing as doing nothing.
June 10, 2008 at 7:03 pm
Zooey, is it available online anywhere? I’d like to see it.
June 10, 2008 at 7:04 pm
Gorn, its here:
http://www.wexlerwantshearings.com/
June 10, 2008 at 7:04 pm
Thank’s nwmuse…..I never expect more than I am willing to do from any one else and I do try to understand where other’s view’s are coming from.
Gorn, sent you a nice big salad like the one I am having for dinner, sorry, no tomatoe’s….Love ya all..Blessings
June 10, 2008 at 7:05 pm
Thanks muse!! I’ll grab my kleenex.
June 10, 2008 at 7:05 pm
gorn, the text of the articles is in my post. You might be able to find something on Youtube. Maybe?
June 10, 2008 at 7:06 pm
Gorn, sorry, that’s just the text.
The video.. I am not sure where it ALL is, but I know its up.
June 10, 2008 at 7:07 pm
Yeah, I was looking for the audio/video. I’ll see of I can find it.
June 10, 2008 at 7:08 pm
http://youtube.com/watch?v=1qy3z7XWtQc
June 10, 2008 at 7:10 pm
Johnathan Turley seems to get it. The Democratic members and leadership have protected him to keep their own jobs, all politics and no principal. Amen. History will be severe of the Democrats who let this all come to pass is the face of so many crimes. As he said the Reps. virtually had to trip over broken law on the way back to their offices. He’s a constitutional attorney, Gorn on Keith who says that it is unforgivable that the Democrats do nothing.
June 10, 2008 at 7:12 pm
If they do nothing it is time for a third party, new and unrelated, to start based on this negligence.
June 10, 2008 at 7:14 pm
Shayne: The Democratic members and leadership have protected him to keep their own jobs, all politics and no principal.
I could not agree more. It is unforgivable that Democrats (no, Americans) did nothing. Now, we CAN do something. We can keep Republicans from controlling the WH for the next four years. It will be unforgivable to do anything to prevent that.
June 10, 2008 at 7:18 pm
If you can figure out a way to create a credible third party that does not have the net effect of splitting the Democratic vote and further empowering the enemy, then I’m all for it.
Let us not repeat the abject stupidity of Ralph Nader. Votes for him put Bush in power.
June 10, 2008 at 7:19 pm
I have to disconnect from my computer, so I’ll bid you all a good night.
June 10, 2008 at 7:21 pm
Shayne, I watched Turley on Keith’s show as well.Have heard him before…Good man, good mind..Blessings
June 10, 2008 at 7:36 pm
Good discussion on this thread folks! I appreciate you all!
June 10, 2008 at 7:38 pm
That’s why the party needs to be formed a long time before the major election to make sure it doesn’t just split up the progressive vote. But if these guys know we’ll do nothing whatever they do we’re always going to be at their mercy like we are now. Night, Gorn.
June 11, 2008 at 8:52 am
gorn by any other name
June 10, 2008 at 7:18 pm
If you can figure out a way to create a credible third party that does not have the net effect of splitting the Democratic vote and further empowering the enemy, then I’m all for it.
You mean the same Democratic Party whose leaders are protecting Bush from being impeached and prosecuted for crimes committed?
We do need to create a viable 3rd party, replacing traitor representatives in the house and senate first, then launch a presidential candidate.
I feel no loyalty to any party whose leadership has betrayed their Oaths of Office.
OathBreakers deserve no respect whatsoever.
I will vote For Obama this year, but I will vote anti-incumbent against any Bush lapdog, no matter the party.
June 11, 2008 at 8:56 am
I couldn’t agree more Wolverine. The Democrats are acting no differently than Republicans and it is not only the leadership. Only a handful of members have done anything substantial and even Conyers and Waxman at times seem to pull back before accomplishing anything.