16 thoughts on “It’s torture — prosecution is not optional”
From a call to the Ed Schultz show:
What if the Iranians decide to waterboard Roxana Saberi, the journalist recently imprisoned in Iran for spying? Where’s our moral authority to demand she be treated well?
By the way, she’s from Fargo. Ed’s all over this.
From Obama’s speech today at Langley to the CIA:
“What makes the United States special, and what makes you special, is precisely the fact that, we are willing to uphold our values and our ideals, even when it’s hard, not just when it’s easy. Even when we are afraid and under threat, not just when it’s expedient to do so. That’s what makes us different.”
Yes, that is verbatim of what he said today.
Mr. President, you just made the case for prosecutions of the torturers! It may be “hard” to undertake these actions, and it certainly won’t be “expedient”, but it must be done, or else the United States has no right to claim that we are “different”.
PJ, your cartoon became today’s thread for me to be mad at Obama. Hope that’s OK.
hor, Not a problem. I did this ‘toon because I am angry. Actually, this whole thing ticks me off no end and while I like Obama a lot, I think he’s dead wrong on this. Torture is wrong and a crime. You wouldn’t put a murder or rape behind you with no proscecution and a “We’re going to just be moving forward.” and torture is as heinous a crime as both of those.
He is letting crimes go unpunished and actually not even looking into the allegations of torture. For me, an America that tortures is not what I want my America to be and to have a bunch of cowards foster that sick policy on us is criminal.
I hope Obama eventually does the right thing. I’m not holding my breath. Until he does, I’ll remain really pissed at his handling of this issue.
I’ll offer up a hardy “me, too!” to Paul. I was never silly enough to think that Obama was truly a progressive, but on this issue he really needs to act like a run-of-the-mill politician.
Of course, on the other hand, he may simply be avoiding the inevitable shitstorm from the Right. He has yet to do anything that would give them any real traction, so they’ve been reduced to making shit up (as usual). But if he actually hauled Bush administration personnel into court? They would come completely unhinged.
US Constitution, Article II (which covers the Executive Branch), Section 3, says of the President, in part:
“…he shall take Care that the Laws be faithfully executed,…”
The key word is “faithfully”. That means that you don’t try to find wiggle room when the Law is plain and clear, as it is on torture. By both US Law and International law, President Obama has no choice in this matter. He must appoint a Special Prosecutor (with subpoena power) to investigate this matter and bring charges against those who violated the Law. And he must do this even if the prosecutor finds that both President Bush and Vice President Cheney violated the law.
Great ‘toon, Paul. Feel free to do one based on the quote from the Constitution I gave above. (Or not, the choice is yours. )
Maybe we will get what we are looking for if the House impeaches Jay Bybee. I doubt that the Senate will convict, needing at least eight Republicans to vote guilty, and assuming all the Democrats stick together, but by then we will have put a lot of truth on the record.
hor,
It is my hope that they go ahead and impeach all the Bush Administration officials who wantonly violated the law. The Constitution says:
Article I, Section 3, Clause 7: Judgment in Cases of Impeachment shall not extend further than to removal from Office, and disqualification to hold and enjoy any Office of honor, Trust or Profit under the United States: but the Party convicted shall nevertheless be liable and subject to Indictment, Trial, Judgment and Punishment, according to Law.
They can’t remove them from the offices they once held, but they can be disqualified from ever serving in government again. They wouldn’t even be allowed to run for dog catcher.
And when it comes time for the Senate to vote, the Democrats should make it clear that anyone who doesn’t vote to convict is a co-conspirator in crime. Their collective and individual guilt cannot be doubted. They are guilty, and they need to face some kind of punishment for their crimes against the Constitution and the Public Trust.
“Meet the boss, same as the old boss”
- Pete Townshend
D’oh!
Terry,
That was Homeric! (snicker)
As much as I’d love to see these perps –and those giving the orders– outed, tried and convicted, for Obama it simply comes down to picking his battles wisely. I’m not sure how much political support he’d ultimately garner on this (spineless Dems oftentimes run away and hide when the issue is ‘national security’) and a drawn out affair –which likely wouldn’t achieve nearly what we really want it to achieve– would simply distract from other things. Yeah, I know, that sucks.
This is a variation on the “You can’t convict a million bucks of anything” theme commonly found in American justice.
I feel like a bloody pinball the way this rhetoric keeps changing.
HOR, I’ve got this border collie, he’s trained to lick himself after he goes out to pee at night. Sometimes he tries to come back in after he’s been out only a short time and I tell him to “Go potty” again. He tries to tell me he’s already been by licking himself. After a few cycles of this impasse, me telling him to “Go potty” and him licking himself, he starts running about and barking in confusion.
Watching Obama on torture: I don’t know whether to lick my dick or run about in circles barking.
” I don’t know whether to lick my dick or run about in circles barking.”
Well, at least we know who trained the border collie!
From a call to the Ed Schultz show:
What if the Iranians decide to waterboard Roxana Saberi, the journalist recently imprisoned in Iran for spying? Where’s our moral authority to demand she be treated well?
By the way, she’s from Fargo. Ed’s all over this.
From Obama’s speech today at Langley to the CIA:
“What makes the United States special, and what makes you special, is precisely the fact that, we are willing to uphold our values and our ideals, even when it’s hard, not just when it’s easy. Even when we are afraid and under threat, not just when it’s expedient to do so. That’s what makes us different.”
Yes, that is verbatim of what he said today.
Mr. President, you just made the case for prosecutions of the torturers! It may be “hard” to undertake these actions, and it certainly won’t be “expedient”, but it must be done, or else the United States has no right to claim that we are “different”.
PJ, your cartoon became today’s thread for me to be mad at Obama. Hope that’s OK.
hor, Not a problem. I did this ‘toon because I am angry. Actually, this whole thing ticks me off no end and while I like Obama a lot, I think he’s dead wrong on this. Torture is wrong and a crime. You wouldn’t put a murder or rape behind you with no proscecution and a “We’re going to just be moving forward.” and torture is as heinous a crime as both of those.
He is letting crimes go unpunished and actually not even looking into the allegations of torture. For me, an America that tortures is not what I want my America to be and to have a bunch of cowards foster that sick policy on us is criminal.
I hope Obama eventually does the right thing. I’m not holding my breath. Until he does, I’ll remain really pissed at his handling of this issue.
I’ll offer up a hardy “me, too!” to Paul. I was never silly enough to think that Obama was truly a progressive, but on this issue he really needs to act like a run-of-the-mill politician.
Of course, on the other hand, he may simply be avoiding the inevitable shitstorm from the Right. He has yet to do anything that would give them any real traction, so they’ve been reduced to making shit up (as usual). But if he actually hauled Bush administration personnel into court? They would come completely unhinged.
US Constitution, Article II (which covers the Executive Branch), Section 3, says of the President, in part:
“…he shall take Care that the Laws be faithfully executed,…”
The key word is “faithfully”. That means that you don’t try to find wiggle room when the Law is plain and clear, as it is on torture. By both US Law and International law, President Obama has no choice in this matter. He must appoint a Special Prosecutor (with subpoena power) to investigate this matter and bring charges against those who violated the Law. And he must do this even if the prosecutor finds that both President Bush and Vice President Cheney violated the law.
Great ‘toon, Paul. Feel free to do one based on the quote from the Constitution I gave above. (Or not, the choice is yours.
)
Maybe we will get what we are looking for if the House impeaches Jay Bybee. I doubt that the Senate will convict, needing at least eight Republicans to vote guilty, and assuming all the Democrats stick together, but by then we will have put a lot of truth on the record.
hor,
It is my hope that they go ahead and impeach all the Bush Administration officials who wantonly violated the law. The Constitution says:
They can’t remove them from the offices they once held, but they can be disqualified from ever serving in government again. They wouldn’t even be allowed to run for dog catcher.
And when it comes time for the Senate to vote, the Democrats should make it clear that anyone who doesn’t vote to convict is a co-conspirator in crime. Their collective and individual guilt cannot be doubted. They are guilty, and they need to face some kind of punishment for their crimes against the Constitution and the Public Trust.
“Meet the boss, same as the old boss”
- Pete Townshend
D’oh!
Terry,
That was Homeric! (snicker)
As much as I’d love to see these perps –and those giving the orders– outed, tried and convicted, for Obama it simply comes down to picking his battles wisely. I’m not sure how much political support he’d ultimately garner on this (spineless Dems oftentimes run away and hide when the issue is ‘national security’) and a drawn out affair –which likely wouldn’t achieve nearly what we really want it to achieve– would simply distract from other things. Yeah, I know, that sucks.
This is a variation on the “You can’t convict a million bucks of anything” theme commonly found in American justice.
I hate it when I mangle a quote, HOR.
Ah, it’s torture getting these quotes right HOR
Is Obama Backtracking, Flip-Flopping, or what?
I feel like a bloody pinball the way this rhetoric keeps changing.
HOR, I’ve got this border collie, he’s trained to lick himself after he goes out to pee at night. Sometimes he tries to come back in after he’s been out only a short time and I tell him to “Go potty” again. He tries to tell me he’s already been by licking himself. After a few cycles of this impasse, me telling him to “Go potty” and him licking himself, he starts running about and barking in confusion.
Watching Obama on torture: I don’t know whether to lick my dick or run about in circles barking.
” I don’t know whether to lick my dick or run about in circles barking.”
Well, at least we know who trained the border collie!