“Torture Works” vs. “I Make Up Stories”

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Dick Cheney has been trying to tell us that torture works (okay, he still refuses to use the word “torture”, but in the interests of accuracy and clarity, I will substitute the word “torture” for any other euphemism they may utilize), that we gained valuable intelligence from its use, and that “it saved lives.” Did it, Dick? Did it really save lives? Or did it cost lives? American lives? Americans in uniform? Did your insistence on the use, and staunch defense, of a series of illegally-authorized interrogation techniques, which were based on methods known to elicit false confessions, actually end up getting one or more of our soldiers killed?

Thanks to the ACLU, we now know that Dick Cheney was lying through his gritting teeth when he said we received valuable intelligence through the use of torture, particularly in the case of Khalid Sheikh Muhammad (also, and more conveniently, known as “KSM”.) He claimed that intel “saved lives.” Given Dick’s well-documented history of spreading falsehoods, I have every reason in the world to believe that not only was this statement a lie, it was actually the opposite of the truth. I have reason to believe that people died because of the information we gained through torture. And the reason is a very simple one. KSM himself said, in his statement at his “Combatant Status Review Tribunal Hearing” (Pg 15):

I ah cannot remember now…I be under questioning so-many statement which been some them l make up stories just location UBL. Where is he? I don’t know. Then he torture me. Then I said yes, he is in this area or this is al Qaida which I don’t him. I said no, they torture me. Does he know you? I say don’t him but how come he know you. I told him I’m senior man.

(emphasis mine)

Did you see that? To make the torture stop, KSM would “make up stories” about bin Laden’s location. Now, what would be the natural response to gaining such “valuable information”? You would have no choice but to check it out. How could you not, unless you already knew that anything he said was worthless, in which case why torture him at all? So, to make the charade work, you send soldiers out to check out the story. Except that KSM was making it up. The information he gave them about bin Laden’s whereabouts was bogus, no good, useless. What did the soldiers find when they got there? If every time they checked out a story they found, not only no UBL, but no enemy action of any kind, would they continue to send soldiers to check out the information KSM was giving them? If they encountered resistance, but no UBL, they might at least believe that UBL moved on from that spot. So it stands to reason that in the course of checking out at least some of KSM’s “leads”, at least a few soldiers got into gun battles with the enemy. Did any of them die in the pursuit of this useless information? Did the use of torture cost us even one American soldier’s life? Will we ever know?

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13 thoughts on ““Torture Works” vs. “I Make Up Stories”

  1. Nicely done Wayne.

    Of course the shit-for-brains torture-fappers are now trying to claim that KSM is lying (about lying).

    But given that KSM was tortured what, 83 times?, and Bin Laden is still at large, even IF KSM knew anything useful and ‘actionable’ and actually told the truth under torture, it turned out to be useless anyway—otherwise surely Bin Laden would have been tracked-down by now.

    And of course the entire premise is outrageously stupid anyway.

    INTERROGATOR: Where is Bin Laden?.
    KSM: Not telling!
    INT: Okay, waterboard him! Where is Bin Laden?
    (gurgling, thrashing about)
    KSM:Okay! He’s hiding in the Kiwani Lodge at Khost!
    INT: Are you SURE? Waterboard him again just to make sure he’s telling the truth!
    ——————————

    INT: Okay he’s corroborated his story three times!. Call the Chuck Norris Fists Of Vengeance Task Force in Bagram and tell them to deploy to Khost! It’s only 115 miles from Bagram! And don’t forget to dial 1 first, it is an international call and remember they’re 8 hours ahead of us so be nice as they are probably all sleeping right now!
    ————————————-
    24 HOURS LATER…..

    INT: Hey, KSM, we didn’t find him. I can’t BELIEVE you LIED to us!
    KSM: I SWEAR he was there!
    INT: WAS?!! Well where is he now?!
    KSM: Umm…Zibak?
    INT: You are lying! Just like you did when we water-boarded you the last time!
    Okay boys, waterboard him again! THIS time we’ll get the TRUTH !
    ——————————

    CHENEY: So?
    INTERROGATOR: As you can see from this PowerPoint chart we waterboarded KSM 83 times and checked out 83 leads, sir!
    CHENEY: Excellent! The law of averages suggests we should find Bin Laden ANY DAY now! The system works!

  2. LOL 5th…

    So when does someone in the media grow a pair and call Cheney on it…?

    Not holding breath…

    • Heh. You funny, 5th. :D

      KSM was waterboarded 183 times, but who knows what other sick means of torture they employed beside that.

  3. I should add that as KSM’s capture was front page news, UBL knew immediately anything KSM knew was compromised so most of KSM’s information was rendered immediately useless–certainly not ‘actionable’.

    And as KSM was kept incommunicado and thousands of miles away from Afghanistan, his information was immediately old and ‘inactionable’.

  4. Terry,

    The bigger question is; when will Obama and the Democrats grow a pair?

  5. right. Zooey. Abu Zubaiydah got it 83 times—and one apology, because they found out he wasn’t important enough to warrant all that attention.

  6. It took Zubaiydah 83 times before the CIA concluded he was neither a pal of OBL, a big shot at Al Qaeda or even a fighter.

    I’m reminded of Kevin Kline’s psychopath in ‘Fish Called Wanda’ apologising to Michael Palin… “Sorry, … sorry.”

    Zoo they probably made KSM watch Chimpy’s State of the Union Addresses strapped to a chair.

  7. And what about that 14-year-old boy who is now 22 from Guantanamo, what did they do to him?

    • Taking a 14 year old boy thousands of miles away from his family, his friends, his culture, his language, etc., and locking him up for more than 1/3 of his life is very severe torture. I’d be surprised if that young man DIDN’T become a terrorist.

  8. So, the opening concept is these people are terrorists who would lie about anything. Then you add torture which has been proven to be an excellent resource for lies. Then you add in the clowns from Caught In Act who have refined lying to an art form. Stir in an administration who treats facts and laws as silly putty.

    Tell me again, what was the purpose here?

  9. “Tell me again, what was the purpose here?”

    Operation Iraqi Liberation – O-I-L

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