Texan Fundamentalists battle History

After attacking Darwinism to a degree that children are now taught creationism in school the next line of attack is History. Never mind facts, never mind that you can’t succeed in a world based on scientific knowledge without that

knowledge. No one says science shouldn’t be critically acclaimed, but Texan children will be suffering an education that leads straight back to the pre-scientific era.

The Christian right is making a fresh push to force religion onto the school curriculum in Texas with the state’s education board about to consider recommendations that children be taught that there would be no United States if it had not been for God.

Members of a panel of experts appointed by the board to revise the state’s history curriculum, who include a Christian fundamentalist preacher who says he is fighting a war for America’s moral soul, want lessons to emphasise the part played by Christianity in the founding of the US and that religion is a civic virtue. (read all)

I’m afraid they won’t stop there. What’s next?

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70 thoughts on “Texan Fundamentalists battle History

  1. Alright, back to the Dark Ages, when the earth was flat, you stuck a flower in your nose to ward off the pox and grannies were firewood!

  2. In Texas, they used to say that:

    “There are only two kinds of folks in Texas who try to predict the weather – fools and newcomers.”

    Now the fools are trying to rewrite history.

    I remember Ann Richards saying this: “How to Be a Good Republican: 1. You have to believe that the nation’s current 8-year prosperity was due to the work of Ronald Reagan and George Bush, but yesterday’s gasoline prices are all Clinton’s fault. 2. You have to believe that those privileged from birth achieve success all on their own. 3. You have to be against all government programs, but expect Social Security checks on time.”

  3. Whoah, I got a thumbs down on the ratings, somebody’s granny really get toasted maybe?

  4. I really hate living in Texas (sigh). Every time I speak with someone I feel my IQ being depleted. Humans and dino’s lived together, God planted those bones at different depths to confuse atheists. The world is 6,000 years old. I just want to finish my contract and get back to civilization. Pretty soon, after they finish with the history books, Texas will have won at the Alamo and they will attempt to annex Mexico because of the Hispanic population here.

    • Hi, permial. Welcome to the Zoo.

      I hope you get out of there soon! My niece and nephew are being educated there. :cry:

  5. permial, want to wind up a Texan?

    Ask them this:

    If you had a country and a bunch of people showed up uninvited, who neither bothered to learn the language, follow the law and convert to the local religion and even brought a bunch of people with them who were enslaved to them, what would you do with them?

    Then: what country are we talking about? Answer Tejas 1810-1836 and the people I’m talking about are the illegal immigrants who came west from the United States.

    And finally: how are they enjoying Mexico’s version of ‘Manifest Destiny’?

    Texas, full of ten-gallon hats and two-pint heads. Been there done that.

  6. “My niece and nephew are being educated there”

    Sorry to say Zoo, any job interview I conduct with a Texan, Kansan or other ‘flat earth’ state, would include a discussion of the scientific method and critical thinking skills. Then, I’d reject them as not having a science degree I would consider valid.

    • TtT, I’m not so concerned about my niece, she has a good head on her shoulders, but my nephew seems to be a hardcore wingnut already.

      My nephew would be the one trying to disrupt his college biology or geology course with obnoxious questions about the age of the earth. :|

  7. I agree with Terry, that’s why I’ve kept my California license. Although, I must say something in defense for the old educational system in Texas. When I graduated from UTA, UT & SMU, science was still believed in. But that was the 70′s and 80′s. I received my MS in 1984 from SMU in network and system design. What scarred me for life was graduating from Columbia (Pacific campus) in 79. There are still some great teachers here, but the DOE is going to change all that. For my masters at SMU I taught a semester of theoretical mathematics. It’s a good school. The course work for my PHD is through a different school and is nearly finished (after an extra 20 years of working). Don’t generalize when it comes to all the people in this somewhat backward state. You could be interviewing prospective employees from Idiot Tech (ITT) or the You Want Fries With That (Devry). If we allow the wingnuts to win, then everyone loses.

  8. Zooey, there’s nothing you can do about someones beliefs. I grew up in texas, I’m a 4th generation immigrant. Both my parents served in WWII and I’m not quite 50 yet (2 more years). I believe in the scientific method. It’s not possible to change someones mind once it’s made up. My parents were Catholic and Jewish (quite a combination don’t you think). My second wife was a Catholic (guess who the Jew was (grin)). My only problem with the religious mind (and I do mean all religions) is that they are not open to any discussion, or change. I’ve read all of the ancient texts and most of the modern ones. You cannot explain to a zealot that free will means that you can think for yourself, not read some dusty tome without some type of modern interpretation. My jew matriarch (mom) was an RN. She taught me to question everything and come up with my own interpretations. The line went like this: “If you weren’t supposed to question, then why do you have free will?”

    • permial,

      That’s exactly why I never discuss religion or politics with my sister’s family. I know I will never be able to change their minds, and I respect their right to believe whatever they want to believe. I just wish the feeling were mutual.

      Apparently, I’m not going to this place called “heaven.” ;)

  9. Well Zoo, if he is sitting in his geology class and not using the scientific method to present his assertions he deserves the F he is going to get.

    In the meantime, you can spend a little time here and punk the little turd, next time he spouts his fundy crud under your roof.

    http://www.positiveatheism.org/writ/berra.htm

  10. Zooey, I discuss religion and politics with everyone, I just don’t expect them to believe the same way I do. If you’ve ever heard the talking heads, they have a song called heaven where they state that “Heaven is a place where nothing ever happens”. You have already learned that the truly “religious” people cannot leave the rest of us alone. They have to save us in one way or another. Just like the folks here in texas that have to save the children from the godless knowledge of science. Just continue to be rational and non argumentative. I was taught by an old Jewish woman (my mom) that this is what you make of it. This world is either heaven or hell. But it’s up to you.

    • permial,

      My world is heavenly when I don’t discuss religion or politics with my family. :lol:

      I never bring it up, but if they do, I keep things on an even keel.

  11. Terry, even atheism is a religion of sorts. It’s just an anti creator religion. A belief without reason, is a religion. If you ignore any possibility, then you just might be wrong. The scientific method only allows you to remove proven wrong hypothesis’. Then you must repeat the experiment and prove it right or wrong again, and again, ad infinitum. One of my favorite quotes from the religious community (and it keeps me out of trouble quite a bit) is “Judge not lest ye be judged”. I really like to hand that one to my protestant, jewish and muslim friends (no I don’t capitalize religious orders). I’ve never had a problem with my hindu and buddhist friends.

  12. Actually Terry, It’s a quote from the Talmud. Jews don’t believe in hell. Only in an afterlife. But even after reading the original hebrew text, I don’t think that we are any different than the buddhist community. My stance on this whole argument is that we will not know until it’s too late. And by argument, I do mean discussion, not something that is nasty or ill meaning, I like to debate things and “argue” with my peers.

  13. Actuallt permial, atheism is the ‘absence of religion’. That’s what the word means in literal translation. Proving a negative is tough stuff, look at Chimpy and the Organ Grinder’s War Of Choice; he just ended saying ‘F*** it lets start shooting and sh**!’

    Atheists who are absolutely certain of the non-existence of God are not atheists, because to be so is to possess a belief.

  14. Why isn’t there a round table function on this site? I’ll give you a clue. They want the revenues for advertising. I’m one of the founding members of UseNet. I’ve been around that long. Look for me on google mail if you’d like to continue this discussion. You know my user name, it’s only 30 years old.

  15. Permial, is it really? Wow, Galileo was spouting Jewish theology? Man, the Pope if he’d been smarter, would have toasted him. eh?

  16. Oh, my bad. I thought that science, once the sole purview of the Egyptians, the Greeks, then the Romans then the ones that came before, Hebes (like me) was transferred to the protestant religion and then corrected. The earth is 6,000 years old (sarcasm here dude, I know that’s not what you mean).

  17. Sorry, I don’t want this to devolve into an actual argument. It seems that we agree on certain things, but not on others. I learn from everyone I talk to.

  18. No, no not at all, but Galileo quotes a very close approximation to Jewish theology, which if the Pope had known would have really p****d him off I reckon.

    So I know next to nothing of Jewish theology, I’m just enjoying the irony.

  19. Zooey, cool. Thank you. Do you have anything to add to the current discussion? I’d like to hear your opinion.

  20. Actually, I’d call that scientific persecution, or a hate crime against rationality.

  21. Galileo did get an apology from the Pope, only almost 400 years later…..

    To me, the creation/intelligent design is all about control, mind control, political control, nothing less. It’s today’s equivalent or the heliocentricity debate. I’m sobered by the remembrance of who was on top of the faggots in those days and who held the torch and that in some parts of the world and in some religions, not much has changed.

  22. Crap, sorry, my PHD sponsor just emailed and want’s an update on my paper. I’ll stick here though. This is educational and fun. You’d like my sponsor though. He’s Doug Hofstadter. My Piled Higher and Deeper is in AI. I may be a little slow responding for a few since I need to call him. But, never fear, I’m enjoying this debate!

  23. I would like you and Terry to have my email address, therefore the chat that I wrote for google. I just don’t want it published on your site. Is that acceptable?

  24. Nope, permial, no emails needed, checking in to the Zoo every now and again does it for me. I stopped the Thinkprogress visits a while ago. I only comment here now.

  25. It’s rare that on the net these days, you can have an actual intelligent conversation. I truly miss UseNet. I will give you all the specifics if you can remove the two posts that I will give.

  26. Ok. I wrote the im for gmail and prefer the instant to having to refresh. I’ve been a developer for mozilla for over 15 years and just wanted to make the offer.

    • Thanks for understanding, permial.

      I’m not saying you’re a freak, but I seem to attract more than my share. :)

  27. Zooey, I’m not new, just new here. You can find me everywhere. Not a problem. I do understand after 30 years in the IT industry. A little history, I started with AT&T in 83 and have been on my own since 87.

  28. It’s the internet, there are more freaks than regular people. Look at 4chan. I mean, can you get stranger than that? I’m on reddit. I write for the Washington Post and the NY Times as an OpEd columnist. Delete the next post. I’ll give you my actual name, although I’ve had the user id of permial since 1979. I’m old and I design networks and complete systems. I started with these machines before there were PCs.

  29. Probably found you through one of my projects. You’d know it as wordpress.

  30. Zoo, I found that TP’s agenda showed through and the inequity of who was banned and which comments were scrubbed grew pretty obvious after a while. Actually I do still occasionally get into it on The Oil Drum, I seem to remember writing a note to the TP mods and checking out. Haven’t been back.

    • Things are better over there now, TtT. Now the ugliest of the ugly hang out on old threads. I only happened to find them because I’ve been gone all day, and was catching up.

  31. Please remove my personal information as soon as you can. I’d appreciate it.

  32. I did not invent WordPress. I just wrote the software for several sites like this one.

  33. I’m a network/System designer. I just do the math. I cannot market anything. Tell me what you want, pay me 6 figures and I’ll design it for you.

  34. The last one was titled “Dear Obama”, I’m sure that you can look that one up. They pay very well. I’m currently working on one for the NY Times. You didn’t really think that the OpEd’s came from actual people, did you?

  35. My favorite from the Post was when I titled W the shrub. I received a lot of flack for that. But it was worth it. The lead in for the article was “What do you call a little Bush” (grin)…..

  36. You can share my info with Terry. Our discussion was entertaining. Be prepared for a change to wordpress in the next couple of weeks. Since Oracle bought Sun Micro, things might change radically. The database that you’re currently using might not be free anymore. We’re working on another open source database system. It’s been fun, but I have to go back to work now. I’m trying to finish an eCommerce site that will bring in around 15k a month for me. Not my site, it’s for a customer. I also need a couple of hours sleep a day and my fiancee is coming into town tomorrow and I need to get a suite with a jacuzzi, go to Frederic’s of Hollywood for her present and rent a limo. We’re going to see Paul McCartney and spend the weekend following the hedonistic ways. To quote Dan Quayle: “It’s a terrible thing to waste ones mind” (yes, he was a true idiot). You have my email. I’ve set your site to notify me if anything interesting happens. I have 2 rules, have fun, and if you can’t, try and have fun.

    Late…….

  37. Just go to gmail.com and create a throwaway email address. Use my email to create a chat session then ignore your throwaway account from that time on.

  38. I’ll be here again. I’ve had fun. This is one of my favorite press sites. Thank you for allowing our discussion on life, the universe and everything in your blog. All the best for you. Once again, thanks for having an interesting conversation. Cheers.

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