Thom Hartmann has a discussion with Dr. Elizabeth Reisman, who is a serious nutcase with major problems around the topic of sex. Apparently Dr. Kinsey (she refers to him as the man who “mainstreamed perversion”) unleashed a true horror when he studied how the body works during sex. OMG, NO!!! Sorry, I’m not linking her site; it’s toxic crap.
Seriously, listen to this woman talk. If you listen to her, there were no sexual problems until the sexual revolution and sex education. She claims that the sex ed aimed at kindergarteners recommends “explicit materials.” She’s even against teaching proper names for body parts — that’s dirty stuff, man.
I do disagree with Thom on one point — that the internet is the main problem with young children seeing inappropriate sexual images. Yes, young children may be exposed to such things on the internet, but that’s a PARENTING problem, not an INTERNET problem.
This is our daily open thread. What’s going on in your world?
Kids are bombarded with sexuality on regular television and particularly in advertising. Or beauty contests, where 12 year old girls are sexualized. Or in the clothing department at Walmart where ditto.
What constitutes “inappropriate”? Where does the culture draw the line?
The internets, cable tv… heck I read years ago they were using subliminals on cereal boxes.
I think it was O’Roarke who observed, “sex is a horrible, awful, disgusting thing that you save for the one you marry.”
Orwell, in “1984″ wrote about Big Brother’s control over the human sex drive – the Junior Anti-Sex League – as another way of controling the populace. And isn’t that really what the whole judeo-christian teachings about sex are all about? The Bible is replicit with God’s instructions on sex, complete with drastic punishments if you disobey God. (If your hand causes you to sin, cut it off; fornicators and adulterers must be stoned, etc.) Yet even the Bible has some interesting inconsistencies: Lot and his daughters committed incest; Abraham and Sarah both committed adultery.
There really is only one good reason for “one man – one woman” and that is it reduces the spread of disease. Other than that, our bodies and our psyche are designed to be polyamorous.
gummitch, you took the words right out of my mouth. Sex sells. Even looking at just two lines of commercials seen over and over again, ad nauseum: beer ads and hard-on ads.
Not to mention all of the disgusting ‘reality’ shows (“whose reality, yours or mine?” – Kentucky Fried Movie) with young, spoiled girls who dress and act like hookers. It amazes me how much garbage is out there.
Despite the very exciting Formula One race this morning, I had to try to watch Christiane Amanpour’s debut on This Week. She led off with Nancy Pelosi, an interview characterized by Nicole Belle at Crooks and Liars as “I woke up this morning to the sweet, sweet sounds of a shattered glass ceiling.” The first female anchor of a Sunday morning news show, interviewing the first female Speaker of the House. They talked about mostly things we already know, so I didn’t get much from the interview. Pelosi still sounds positive about the midterms, but that’s her job. She also typically distanced herself from the Rangel hearings.
Christiane then interviewed Robert Gates, which of course, meant Afghanistan and the Wikileaks papers. Based on what I heard from Gates, the Wikileaks information was vulnerable due to a DoD flaw in the dissemination of intelligence to forward operating bases, where this ‘hacking’ occurred. It seems to me, they want to blame the leaker for being able to access information that should have been redacted sufficiently to protect our Afghan collaborators.
The Roundtable started with the first question going to George Will. I don’t even remember what it was. Donna Brazile and Paul Krugman were in studio, with journalist Ahmed Rashid, an expert on Afghanistan, joining by video.
Things became very funny when the group got around to the Rangel hearings:
Uh, George, Rangel stepped down in March!
Rep. Sander Levin is acting chairman now. Are you suggesting that Mr Levin is uncooperative?
I also have to disagree with Will also on the importance of the Ensign scandal. The House could lose twenty Democrats this fall, and Nancy Pelosi would probably still be Speaker, but every vote in the Senate is crucial on every issue, even on whether the sun will come up tomorrow in the East. If Harry Reid lost to Sharon Angle, somehow, and Ensign is out as the other Senator, Nevada starts at the bottom of the Senate pecking order. That’s also worth millions to the state if Harry sticks around. Trent Lott was the reason Mississippi moved to the top of the pork list during his time as Majority Leader.
Hum… the only sins in a Fundie’s religion are: Sex, abortion, sex, homosexuality, sex. There are no other sins but those. And did I mention sex?
Fundies are deeply suspicious of anyone having fun. These are the same individuals response for Prohibition, among other horrors.
I’d say that the primary sin among the Talibaptists is pleasure.
Interesting, on Face the Nation, Richard Haase of the Council on Foreign Relations thinks we should scale back our presence in Afghanistan. He says we can’t succeed at large scale goals, but what we can achieve, we can do with much smaller numbers.
Now why would a neocon want draw down a war, except to have resources to start another war? Think Iran.
Oddly enough, the principal purpose of every living thing, all species included, is to survive to reproduce. Everything else is in second place.
I’ve long found it amusing, in a bittersweet sort of way, that the hyper-Abrahamics tend to find the reproductive act (and even thinking about it) to be dirty, unclean, sinful, awful awful. And yet there are what, four or five billion of the buggers currently walking around somewhere even as we speak? There’s a word for them (well, two words): fucking idiots.
” Do you come with the car?”
” Ha Ha”
I am sort of figuring only Jane and Wayne will get this…
What a minute I think that is “Oh You” and not “Ha Ha”…
I know NASCAR doesn’t have a sterling reputation among many Progressives, but you’ve got to applaud this.
Pocono Raceway Takes The “Green” Flag In Solar Energy
That was one year ago this weekend
What a difference a year makes!
Solar Farm at Pocono Raceway Opens
The solar panels were made in Perrysburg, Ohio, the lumber used was from Oregon, the metal supports are from California, and local labor has helped to build it.
From wiki:
We are breeding a society of neurotics. The media hypes sex and violence to sell everything, sells it in music, movies, sports and then turns around and tells everyone sex and violence are bad ebil things.
Well, I agree on the violence one but it is seriously sick to have the two so closely linked. I suspect this is deliberate in order to further detract from the positive side of sex.
Hooda: it is seriously sick to have the two so closely linked. I suspect this is deliberate in order to further detract from the positive side of sex.
And/or perhaps to make war and violence look sexy? Primeval? Necessary? Legitimate? FUN?
I meant to add the ditty,
“This is my rifle
This is my gun
This is for killing
This is for fun.”
Marine Corps, I think.
Quite possible, frugal. Which makes it even more despicable. A new generation that gets their nut from war and killing. That is just too creepy to contemplate. Glad I don’t like to write horror stories because that one would a best seller probably but I wouldn’t be able to sleep nights after writing it.
Per ditty: we did that in the army as well. If one referred to one’s rifle/weapon as a “gun” one was required to stand in front of the plattoon and recite the above with appropriate gestures. (Speaking from experience here.)
The vanguard episode Porn 2.0 is sort of interesting. The chainsaw sort of freaked me out…
Thank Dog I was Navy. They didn’t like us to have guns. And I was a Gunners Mate.
By the way, does anyone know what Reisman is supposedly a doctor of? I glanced at Wikipedia, which did not say, and am too lazy to dig any deeper on my own.
Speaking of war … I found a couple of errors in my manuscript, so have been spending a lot of time looking for more. So far no luck, but this morning I did run across a couple of things a pair of characters said about war. For some odd reason, they seem to see things much as I do, as in:
“War written as history misses the horror, and if we’re ever to find the means of relegating war to be forever a thing of the past, we first have to rid ourselves of the guts and glory aspect and tell things as they really are. War is not heroic, war is, at its most basic level, the consequence of intellectual incoherence, of cowardice; it’s a clash which is, more than anything else, a horror story, a scenario where the unthinkable becomes commonplace, and I think that aspect needs emphasis.”
And, on the profits implicit in war:
“Profit to a business enterprise is a very nice thing. But when tens of thousands die because someone profits handsomely, where then does our moral compass lie interred? How do we explain ourselves in any sort of proper context?”
There are some on the loose out there today who may well disagree with that, but I’m not one of them, never have been.
If anyone missed the link yesterday, I highly recommend ted.com. A friend of mine showed me Dr. Hans Rosling there who has done amazing things with displaying data. I’m just getting into the other contributors.
frugal, I did the mango sauce yesterday…perfect with beef short ribs this time. Also, you are right about how wars get written up.
I am still pissed that short ribs have become fashionable
“Now why would a neocon want draw down a war, except to have resources to start another war? Think Iran.”
house, thanks for giving me another thing to worry about.
Don’t know about fashionable but around here they are less expensive and mighty tasty.
But I do suppose it might mean Dog can’t make more lady cows.
That’s what they all say, dbadass. They all say, “D’oh!”
Flank steak used to be dirt cheap, too, dbadass.
Don’t the Diamondbacks have a plane to catch? Sheesh!
This sucks, but of course the lack of jobs is Obama’s fault.
Glad you enjoyed the sauce, Hooda. Wish I could have some. But, the missus is on a diet. Nuff said, probably.
The dismantling of the US reminds me of a reverse image of the old Johny Cash song, “One Piece at a Time.” Instead of building a Caddy, they are taking it apart. Every day they take another piece of America and leave us with a little less.
Hoodathunk, not only are they dismantling the country, they are first taking the newest, shiniest, most valuable pieces first.
I’m just now watching Meet the Press on MSNBC.
Alan Greenspan said “Our problem, basically, is that we have a very distorted economy, in the sense that there has been a significant recovery, in a limited area, of the economy, amongst high income individuals, who have just had $800 billion added to their 401Ks, and are spending it, and are carrying what consumption there is.”
Did somebody forget to remind “The Fossil”, that you can’t spend money from your 401K, unless you’re retired, which is when usually, investments have been shifted from riskier plans to mostly interest-bearing accounts for safety?
By the way, does anyone know what Reisman is supposedly a doctor of? I glanced at Wikipedia, which did not say, and am too lazy to dig any deeper on my own.
Reisman has a PhD in Communications.
I get pissed off every time I think about that bitch.
Of course, house. It’s all about resale value. And the baggers are all about helping them strip the carcass.
Communications? This gives her chops in the psychology of sex? Fer Chrissakes, when did we lose the idea that experts are people who have expertise in the field?
I guess since some idiot panel decided to grant her a PhD, she feels entitled to trash anyone she likes in whatever field. Sex must be her favorite — it makes the sheeple sit up and listen, as well as buy her crap books.
Reisman: “I’m an expert about sex. I had it once.”
Having one myself and knowing what it takes to get one, I feel I can speak with legitimate authority when I say that, by itself, having an advanced degree is no guarantee that one is capable of clear thinking. Often times what is most necessary is just brute stubborness and the ability to follow your director’s instructions. That said, the Ph.D. is not meaningless, merely an imperfect moron filter.
People with a high capacity for bracketing their beliefs and knowledge (what persons with a lower capacity for euphemism might call “bald-faced hypocrisy”) can demonstrate real expertise in one area while still lacking the meta-cognitive skills to evaluate their real expertise overall.
Logically, this gives you the argumentum ad vericundiam.
Psychologically, it exemplifies the Dunning-Kruger effect.
(And for giggles, let’s see if I succeeded in embedding those URL’s!)
You did it!! Yay!
So let me get this straight, Gary. They might have given her the PhD just so she’d go away and stop bothering them?
I hope I didn’t offend with my comments about Reiman’s PhD. They were aimed only at her. She seems to be quite a vicious woman, who preys on the fears of parents who are trusting her, and she’s tearing down a man (Kinsey) who is no longer able to defend himself.
Both of my attempts slipped a quotation mark in at the end, for no evident reason …
(Sorry about the following, but this is the only way I can find out what I screwed up)
argumentum ad vericundiam
Looks good to me, Gary.
Ohhhh, Fallacy Files. Me likee. I am just terrible with logic, and need all the practice I can get.
Thanks for that link!
This too should work now:
Dunning Kruger effect
I was not offended; rather, I wanted to reinforce a measure of skepticism toward those with a “Dr.” in front of their name, justified on the basis that I’m one such and can speak from experience.
And no, it is not just that they wanted to get rid of her. Rather, as the kind of person who puts the world in airtight boxes, it is likely that she could do good enough work in her chosen specialization without ever allowing the thought processes that made that work possible to bleed over into the other areas of her life; most especially those areas where she really lives.
For myself — and the overwhelming number of colleagues whom I’ve ever met — such infantile hypocrisy is simply beyond unimaginable. One of the good things about philosophy is that it teaches and reinforces the kind of broad-ranging, “synthesizing” intelligence that thoroughly undermines such Reisman-like bracketing. As Heinlein once remarked, “specialization is for insects.” Well specialization feeds into that sort of bracketing, while philosophy is so general that it is kind of the non-specializing specialty.
(This, I would argue, is why engineers, economists, and medical doctors have a higher percentage of conservatives: their studies require a high-degree of specialization. So if they are already inclined to bracket, these disciplines encourage and enable them to do so.)
That makes a lot of sense, Gary. I’ve wondered why such smart people in one area are total dolts in another.
The Dunning Kruger effect was a real lightbulb moment for me. It explains why really dumb people are sometimes so very confident in their seemingly complete ignorance. They simply do not know that they do not know, and have no idea that they need to do anything differently.
Astonishing!
Fallacy Files is one of the best sources on the web for learning about formal and informal fallacies. Whatever I am teaching, it is one of the links I always ensure that my students have.
(Reason being: teaching philosophy is always about teaching critical thinking. Thus, for example, an Ethics class is a course on critical thinking about ethics; applied critical thinking, if you will.)
Ethics was my favorite philosophy class. I could more easily think about applying ethics in life, than I could in other areas of philosophy. Epistemology and Metaphysics were seriously hard for me to get my brain around.
All problems in philosophy are, I would argue, ultimately connected. But how one gains one’s toe-hold on those problems varies. Thus the major divisions of philosophy have commonly been:
1. Metaphysics
2. Epistemology
3. Ethics.
What these names disguise is the vast array of ideas that they actually share. Thus, another way of listing these would be:
1. What there is
2. How we know about it
3. What we do about it.
Thus what we do is going to depend upon what there is and what we know. At the same time, what there is presupposes the ethical agency of ourselves among its primary components, and what we know and how we know needs to include the questions of what is good, as “truth” presupposes “good” as the necessary ground to make it (“truth”) worth looking for. (That is, “truth” is one of the “goods.”)
There is, I would argue, a better way of breaking things out than 1 — 3 above. This would be by emphasizing things in terms of (a) the theory of inquiry, and (b) the theory of experience.
(a) Theory of Inquiry = “Logic”
(b) Theory of experience = “Aesthetics.”
Both of my uses of terms in (a) and (b) hearken back to the original meanings and uses in ancient Greek culture and thought.
So Z, when you say you are no good at “logic,” really where your problem(s) lie are in formal logic. Your grounding in basic methods of inquiry is demonstrably sound.
I feel so much better now, Gary.
My philosophy prof explained it much the same as you did, but your break-out of inquiry and experience brings an even greater level of understanding.
I’ve only taken three philosophy classes, so I didn’t have any foundation of knowledge of the subject, other than knowing that I didn’t know much about it. Formal logic is my bugaboo, although my grasp of it is better now than it was during my symbolic logic class. It was hard for me to let go of wanting things to make sense in logic. It’s not always so.
Gary, Zooey is incredibly hard headed. She refuses to believe she is as smart as she is. But we all know differently.
Pffttt…
I designed a two stage binary adder for any number of bits – that means that the logic is two logic circuits deep. Before I did that, theorists said that that was impossible. Gary, how does that fit into psycho?
Pfffft, my ass. Shall I ask how many folks here think Zooey isn’t one of the most intuitive and insightful posters with a natural, instinctive understanding of politics and life in general?
My yes vote goes up first.
Ok, that can stop any time now.
Not sure what you’re asking, Walt.
No, I think it a good idea that your online friends give you a hug. And let you know just how few of them think you are less than you are.
Maybe I’m wrong but I don’t think so. I think there are lots of people who have more faith in you than you do.
Again, I will cast the first vote.
Thank you, Hooda.
Be back later.
Gary, that fallacy website must have been designed in 1995.
Somehow in trolldom as well…I’m beginning to wonder if they have their own forum and the titles they give themselves are based on the number of posts they troll…you know the titles on message boards determining your rank…
For example, 1500+ nets you doctor!
1000+ = MBA
500+ philosopher…
Funny thing is I’ve always thought that about myself as well…when I was an undergrad…
Again, I will cast the first vote.
You can add my vote up, Zooey. And {{{hugs}}} too!
Add my vote. I may be a newbie here, but I’m neither blind nor incapable of comprehension! Plus I’ve watched Zooey in action on TP for several months, have watched motomark try to denigrate Zooey’s credentials and then, shortly thereafter, watched him wish he hadn’t.
Yeesh, could you guys try and keep the discussion a little more intellectual around here. /facetious
What a Dog-awful woman Reisman is. “Just read my book and you’ll understand.” STFU bitch.
Gary,
I used to design logic circuits for computers. Back then, I ran around with a pocket protector and spectacles.
Good evening everyone. Just spent the day reinstalling Windows… (boo). Had a strange crash a couple of weeks ago, and nothing’s been quite right since. Anyway, it’s almost done.
Hope you all had a more exciting day than I did.
Well, I’m late as ever, but I sincerely need help with the topic of this thread, and you folks are an insightful bunch. I managed to discuss sex with all my older children by sticking to the idea that I would answer each of their questions honestly as they were asked. I now have a child who is somewhat delayed, and he has never asked me anything. It’s obvious that at 11 he is feeling the hormones stirring. I don’t know whether to just blurt out the uses to which one puts their private parts and preemp his soon to occur middle school education in such, or just wait until he eventually brings home questions. I’m also concerned as to how I can convey to a child who has to learn how to react to emotions, rather than to act intuitively, by rote. How can I convey my values, which can pretty much be summed up as sex is serious between humans, not only for the physical consequences, but for the emotional ones. It must exault your spirit, not leave you feeling diminished. I’m really worried about blowing this. Please notice I ask your opinion and not that of Dr. Reisman.
Frugal said…Oddly enough, the principal purpose of every living thing, all species included, is to survive to reproduce. Everything else is in second place.
The Shakers forgot about this principal and look what happened to them. They non-reproduced themselves out of existence.
Outstanding… trust your instincts. You will know when it is the right time to speak with him. You are a farmer and you know more about life than many of us. If he spends time with you working on the farm, then you will have plenty of time to discuss his maturing nature and the value of relationships.
HoR – thanks for the news about the Pocono Raceway and the solar power. Good for them. It’s a start.
Hi Cats,
I just wish they owned more racetracks!
Thanks Cats, but that’s what has provoked this discussion. He sees the young boar trying to mate with his full-grown sows and climbs on the back of our dinner guests without truely knowing what mating means. I’ve been just telling him it’s rude, and that he’s too young to mate, but I need to explain exactly what mating entails, and to differentiate between the animal desire and the more complex emotions of humans.
Lady Z – you have my vote, hugs and cat kisses ~~~
Outstanding… you already answered your own question. Talk to him about the animals and then talk to him about people. Trust your instincts. Talk to him in the age appropriate language. This may require using art or music. Use what appeals to him. It may take more time and work, but you can do it because he is your son and you love him.
Outstanding… another idea, take him fishing. Life on the stream can be very relaxing and it could be good time to talk and bond.
I arrived here late today. My daughter and her family that live locally, spent the weekend so it was fun time with the grandchildren, the daughter and the son-in-law. And today is my 29th wedding anniversary. That’s a long time to be with the same person. It’s not always been easy but it’s been worth the time and effort. My husband said that our 29 years together shows that it’s not about the money. That’s for sure. He never has much
And since I retired from the Big Pharmaceutical company, neither do I.
Happy Anniversary Cats. I’ve been married 30 years and it’s so beautiful to be past the trivia. We’ve grown together so that I doubt we could be seperated without losing parts of our individual identities.
Thank you, Outstanding. Yes, the same thing has happened here. This is marriage number 2 for me. The first one was a real loser. I believe that I got lucky this time around.
Hello, ladies.
Cats, Happy Anniversary to you and your husband. Maybe one day I’ll be lucky enough to get love right.
I’m glad you got to spend the day with your wonderful grandchildren.
Outstanding, I’d love to talk to you about the sex ed issue, but it’s been so long (he’ll be 28 this month) that I’ll have to think about how I handled it. Nothing heavy, I know that.
Sorry I disappeared today. The pain I’ve dealing with in my side for about 10 days has decided to reveal itself as a painful back problem. I’ve been eating ibuprofen and trying to keep myself from turning into a pretzel. I get to start training the new Zookeeper tomorrow, and have a trip to Portland planned for this weekend — I have amazing timing…
Goodnight, all.
G’night Zooey, be well and feel better.
“Shall I ask how many folks here think Zooey isn’t one of the most intuitive and insightful posters with a natural, instinctive understanding of politics and life in general?”
I vote “aye.” She is what you say, and more.
Gary,
I’m so glad you found our site.
namaste