The Watering Hole: Thursday, October 7, 2010 – Time Flies When You’re Having Fun

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Today marks the 9-year Anniversary of the invasion of Afghanistan. Has it really been that long? It seems like only yesterday Bush announced we were invading Afghanistan to capture Bin Laden because he was responsible for 9/11.

But Bush didn’t capture Bin Laden. Bush didn’t even allow a criminal investigation into the events of 9/11. (Congress’ investigation was limited to the supposed failures of intelligence.) Bush didn’t seek extradition. He invaded a sovereign nation to capture one criminal suspect. He toppled a country’s government and instilled a puppet ruler. He didn’t get Bin Laden, but he did get an oil pipeline contract for a U.S. company.

Over 1,300 U.S. service men and women died in the effort to capture this one suspect. Thousands of Afghanistani children, men and women have also been killed in the conflict.

Obama may have had no choice but to continue the conflict in the short run. But he did and does have a choice whether or not to investigate the rationale behind the invasion. His failure to do so may be the biggest failure of his presidency.

This is our Open Thread. Please feel free to add your thoughts on this, or any other topic that comes to mind.

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37 thoughts on “The Watering Hole: Thursday, October 7, 2010 – Time Flies When You’re Having Fun”

  1. There are times when war equates with survival but they’re generally quite rare, WWII being the most recent example. All the rest have meaning only in the twin contexts of power and profit. Look at the last sixty years: Korea, Vietnam, Grenada, Panama, Kuwait, Iraq, and Afghanistan — wars of no grand consequence to anything important, yet millions are now dead for no reason other than that pair of demons which constantly haunt America: profit and power. And those are just off the cuff, the first that come to mind not even counting black ops. How many have I missed?

    Here are a couple of brief but to my mind accurate thoughts on war, extracted from my manuscript entitled The Incessant Voice of War.

    A journalist assigned to Vietnam says:

    “War written as history misses the horror, and if we’re ever to find the means of relegating war to be forever a thing of the past we first have to rid ourselves of the guts and glory aspect and tell things as they really are. War is not heroic. War is, at its most basic level, the consequence of intellectual incoherence, of cowardice; it’s a clash which is, more than anything else, a horror story, a scenario where the unthinkable becomes commonplace, and I think that aspect needs emphasis.”

    A CEO whose company has profited immensely from the war in Vietnam adds:

    “… am I not even more guilty, by association? Profit to a business enterprise is a very nice thing. But when tens of thousands die because someone profits handsomely, where then does our moral compass lie interred? How do we explain ourselves in any sort of proper context?”

  2. But he did and does have a choice whether or not to investigate the rationale behind the invasion. His failure to do so may be the biggest failure of his presidency.

    The wars are definitely on the ‘back burner’ – ‘withdrawal’ from Iraq? – permanent bases make it impossible to say we have withdrawn and that that war ‘is over’. (Occupation is occupation).
    Same with the debacle in Afghanistan – unfortunately it appears the war and/or occupation by the US won’t be over for some time to come.

  3. A telling comment I like to cite is this one. It about tells the tale, explains all the wars since the end of WWII. It was written in an internal memo of some sort (to whom not specified) circa 1944 by Charles E. Wilson, president of General Electric (1940-42, 1945-50), head of the Office of Defense Mobilization (1951), and US Secretary of Defense (1953-57). Wilson said:

    “The revulsion against war . . . will be an almost insuperable obstacle for us to overcome. For that reason, I am convinced that we must begin now to set the machinery in motion for a permanent wartime economy.”

    Whatever he/they did apparently worked.

  6. One of the commenters said the same thing, but said they would donate them to some poor people. Good enough.

    Zooey,
    I’m re-watching The Stolen Earth right now, after watching Turn Left this morning. Now that I’ve seen Torchwood, I wanted to see this one again.

    • Turn Left is one of my favorite Donna Noble episodes. :)

      I’ve decided to save Torchwood for Christmas Break. I’ll be poor then and it will be cold, so I’ll hang out and watch some Torchwood.

  7. I’m getting 4 Torchwoods all together, once every two weeks, I figured out the BBC Anerica schedule. When will the next series of the Doctor start?

  8. Donna was my favorite companion. To be fair, it was during that time that I really started to watch in earnest, so she’s the companion I’ve seen the most.

    Speaking of Donna, Netflix has The Catherine Tate Show available for streaming. I watched an episode last night. Over-the-top sketch comedy, if that’s your sort of thing.

    • I liked Donna Noble as a companion because there was no moony romantic stuff between them. Not that there’s anything wrong with that, but I was ready for a break from it. Donna and the Doctor were like absolute best friends forever, and it didn’t hurt that she was smart as a whip.

      I’d love to have that kind of relationship with a guy. I think it’s a pretty rare thing.

  9. For those who want streaming on their TV with little fuss, I’ve been using a Roku for about a year now. I love it.

    Setup into my wireless network was a breeze, and a simple set-up to link your device to your Netflix account, and you have streaming on the TV.

    • zxbe, come winter time I don’t mind watching my Netflix on the computer — my great room (where the tee vee is) gets pretty cold in winter, and I don’t want to heat it just to watch a couple hours of Torchwood. :)

  11. Los Gigantes de San Francisco (Fear the Beard)

    vs.

    Atlanta Braves

    Viva anaranjado y negro! (Viva the orange & black)

  13. Campbell’s has produced some pretty decent soups for a while now, beyond just the condensed variety that everyone got so tired of.

    I always assumed the purpose of watching baseball was to get fitshaced and yell insults at the umps and other team. Doesn’t seem like the game itself — no-hitter or otherwise — makes that much difference …

    • Well, last time I went to a baseball game was when I was a kid — the As and the Giants — don’t remember which team, since we went to a lot of their games. I wasn’t allowed to get fitshaced, even though they sold beer in the stands. :D

  14. I have zero interest in sports. Haven’t had for many years. When I was younger I was mildly ok with (college and pro) football, basketball, sometimes even baseball (but never hockey). But the bulb went out. Haven’t watched any sports of any kind in at LEAST ten years, have no idea who’s winning or losing, don’t care.

    Not sure why that is, but don’t reckon it’s likely to change.

    • I’m with you, frugal. If I’m watching sports, then I’m at the game. Otherwise, forget it.

      Even if I’m at the game, I’m not necessarily watching the game. I love people watching, so I totally lose track of what’s going on in the game. I’d like to go to a UI football game this fall, but since I haven’t been attending they’ve been winning. So, I don’t want to mess them up. :D

  15. Zooey, please ignore what dixie said on TP about your comment regarding people who quote racist comments. I took what you said as constructive criticism from a friend and I clearly said so. You’re right. When I do it the way I did it, I become part of the problem. I will try to find another way to ask TP to get rid of comments like those. Thank you, my very good friend. :)

    • Wayne, I hadn’t even noticed what passive-aggressive dixie said, since I rarely read her comments. :D I was trying not to be bossy by just framing my comment as a reminder/suggestion, but there will always be those overly sensitive ‘don’t boss me around’ types who over-react to everything.

      My comment wasn’t aimed at you, Wayne, but another commenter before you. The good thing is that people are probably getting more out of your excellent responses to my comment, than they’re getting out of my original comment. Yay!

  16. Rachel interviews Art Robinson on tonight’s show. Let me advise you, this guy is certifiably insane and he tries to prove that point. He is the Republican running against Peter DeFazio in Oregon. If he is elected, his entire district will have to be issued straitjackets.

  17. Walt, Jane and I loved the way she ended that interview. She had promised him earlier, when he was accusing her of being sarcastic, that she could show him what sarcasm was like. She did. At the end, she told him, “I thoroughly enjoyed this interview.”

  18. This guy was working in my sister’s NICU

    Was that recently, Z? His license would/should have been revoked and never allowed to practice nursing again.
    A background check would have alerted the employer.

    • Ebb, that criminal was fired YESTERDAY. He used a fake name, but the head honchos of the hospital are claiming their hiring and background checks policies were not to blame. Yeah, right…

  19. “I would think watching a no-hitter would be boring.”

    Aaagghh! I would KILL to be at a no-hitter. We’ve been at a 1-hitter, but of course the Mets have never had a no-hitter.

  20. Jane, a ‘No-No’ is such a thrilling game. Especially nail biting in the ninth – when you figure anything can happen!

    Baseball – it doesn’t pretend to have a time limit.

    Football (boooring) a 60 minute game that takes three hours of tedious measuring of a few damn yards.

  21. WAS,
    It seems that JES, you and I were the only Americans; not on the West Coast, to miss that ‘interview’.

  23. Chinese Dissident Liu Wins Nobel Peace Prize

    Imprisoned Chinese dissident Liu Xiaobo (LEE-o SHAo-boh) won the 2010 Nobel Peace Prize on Friday “for his long and non-violent struggle for fundamental human rights in China,” the Norwegian Nobel Committee said.
    The committee says it has long believed that there is a close connection between human rights and peace.
    The prize is likely to enrage the Chinese government, which warned the Nobel committee about giving the award to Liu.

  24. Ebb, that criminal was fired YESTERDAY. He used a fake name, but the head honchos of the hospital are claiming their hiring and background checks policies were not to blame. Yeah, right…

    Fingerprints don’t change. In this day and age one would think all states would include this in licensing healthcare workers.

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