The Watering Hole: March 24 – A Cardiac Catheterization

Cardiac catheterization (heart cath) is the insertion of a catheter into a chamber or vessel of the heart. This is done for both investigational and interventional purposes. Subsets of this technique are mainly coronary catheterization, involving the catheterization of the coronary arteries, and catheterization of cardiac chambers and valves.

The common precursor is a poor result from a stress test. At this point in time, what is called a PET test is taking hold. I recently went through such a test and received a poor result. The good side is that the net result will be either a false positive,a clearance of the blockage or a stent will have to be inserted into one or more of the veins of my heart.

I already have a stent in place and that is still holding up.

In any case, this is my last open post until at least March 31st. It may be at late as April 7th if a bypass is required.

You can do your own research on this process by searching on cardiac catheterization. You may be better off for it as the quintuple bypass is passing into memories of the dim past and an informed person will always be a better person.

This is our Open Thread. Please feel free to present your thoughts on any topic that comes to mind.

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171 thoughts on “The Watering Hole: March 24 – A Cardiac Catheterization

  1. Walt, sending all positive energy – and warm cyber hugs for a complete and very speedy recovery. You’ll be on our minds every day until your return to the Zoo.

  2. Walt, you have and continue to be an inspiration to me. Your posts and insights will be missed while you recover. Holding you in the healing light of the lasso~ peace

  3. Walt, I keep my fingers crossed for you. Be back soon, and not only to post, but to be here among us! ((((HUGS))))

  4. Best of luck, Walt. They do pretty good work with that stuff these days. I’m coming up on my first anniversary in a few weeks and things are still going well. Looking forward to hearing from you again in a bit.

  5. I hope that all goes well for you Walt, and that your recovery is swift.

  6. Take it slow, Walter.

    _________________

    The progressive advocacy group Color of Change is mounting a campaign to urge the Huffington Post to stop giving a forum to “notorious liar and race-baiter Andrew Breitbart.” HuffPo responded by claiming that Breitbart’s “first post on our site drew over 1,635 comments,” thereby “validat[ing] the premise and the decision to publish his blog post.”

    And that’s why troll traffic isn’t discouraged at ThinkProgress.

    • badmoodman, arianna was planning on making this the deal of a lifetime from the word go. Just look at all the celebrity stuff. She profited from her husbands money and his contacts, so she could get prominent contributors, she chose a liberal bias, because she felt like this was better business and, let’s face it, progressive contributors can at least spell right. But she’d stop at nothing to get her e-rag flying and be a celebrity herself. Try and get a decent comment through there. I tried a few times, you folks can decide whether my contributions are worth a thing, the Huffington Post doesn’t think so. (Maybe because I was telling them, what I am telling you here, as well).

      Ok,ok. there is one other deep seated prejudice in me, I don’t like most Greeks, but basically I loathe Arianna for being dishonest.

  7. Hope all goes well, the ticker is a serious component of one’s physical structure. When not working properly, nothing else does either. Thoughts and wishes for swift healing going your direction…

  8. I had a PET test as part of my lung cancer evaluation. They filled me up with radioactive barium shake and took multiple passes through a CT scan type machine. The purpose was to see how much of the radioactive sugar shake the tumor fed on. It literally lights up the lesion. My result was a “1.6”, where >= 2.0 is a positive.
    Wondering if your PET was similar, and if so, what was it measuring>?

  9. The< Least Persuasive Quote Ev.Er., from the Wasilla Diva:

    “I’m through whining about a liberal press that holds conservative women to a different standard, because it doesn’t do any good to whine about it. When a shot is taken at me, it is water off a duck’s back because I know the important things we need to concentrate on in life — especially the national and international issues that are so important in our country.”

    http://thehill.com/blogs/blog-briefing-room/news/151615-palin-im-through-whining-about-a-liberal-press

  10. Think positive Walt, light and healing energy for you as you begin the healing process.

  11. badmoodman, that’s hilarious, she’s whining that she’s through whining. If said shot were like water off a duck’s back, why all the quacking?

  12. “HuffPo responded by claiming that Breitbart’s “first post on our site drew over 1,635 comments,” thereby “validat[ing] the premise and the decision to publish his blog post.”

    Huff Post is now big business following it’s buyout by AOL.
    As such, the dollar transcends decency and moral purpose.

    • I guess we should start encouraging more traffic accidents and spousal beatings on the streets — they attract a lot of viewers as well.

  13. If the Quacker paid less attention to what others say about her, and more to what she herself is saying, she wouldn’t have these problems.
    It would be a lot quieter as well.

  14. Walt, I’m hoping you get the best possible outcome from all this. My dad had the procedure (cardiac catheterization) done a long time ago and came through it fine except for being grouchy about the entry site itching a little afterwards. As Hoodathunk says, they do this stuff pretty good. The important thing is your doc is on top of it.

    My mom had a primary care doctor who turned out to be useless, and she was so weak from blockages before they finally found them they wouldn’t do any kind of intervention because it would have killed her more quickly. She died of congestive heart failure, just like Liz Taylor, yesterday.

  15. RUC,
    The cardiac PET scan takes snaps when the heart is compressed and relaxed while under stress and when not. The same radioactive dye and scanners are used as in the pulmonary test.

  16. Walt, are they going to do an echocardiogram? When they did my cath they also dropped a probe down my throat for a clear echo inside the rib cage.

  17. house,
    Sorry about your mom. I have had a cardiologist since I was 45. My uncle, a physician, suggested that I do so.

  18. hooda,
    I do not know for sure on the echo, the last time they used barium dyes.

  19. Guess, it doesn’t matter, Walt. But I do remember what I felt like during the run up. Try to avoid the what ifs and think peaceful. A little Rescue Remedy wouldn’t hurt either. We are all pulling for you and sending positive energy your way.

  20. Raven, when I saw your post I went back to Huffington to find my post on Breitbart so I could share it here. I said something to the effect of “really your letting this guy post on Huffington, guess there’s a big difference between Ariana and AOL”.
    Somehow that post got deleted because it was a personal attack on Breitbart…..Huffington has gone the way of the Corporatist Party and is now nicely tucked in to the reichwing…..

  21. Walt take the time you need, be well and look forward to seeing your words and your fine mind in print again soon.

  22. Sorry for your loss house, even sadder the way it happened. I can only imagine the emotional and physical pain she must have felt…..

    Walt, I have yet to meet you, but I have some experience with scary medical issues, hang in there, trust your body to tell you what to do, sending light energy your way….

  23. House, not sure I read your comment right. Did your Mom die just yesterday? I’m sort of at a loss over what to say.

  24. She died of congestive heart failure, just like Liz Taylor, yesterday.

    I think House made an unfortunate use of a comma. At least I hope so.

  25. Yes, my comma didn’t belong, Mom died in Dec.’03. Sorry about that!

    Mornin’ Krissy!

    My boys are headed to ‘Da Gahden’ to play next Tuesday!

    They finished the season 19-0 at Coleman Coliseum! No Alabama team has ever done that. It’s a unique record because of the three NIT wins added to the regular season wins. Any other Alabama team good enough would have made the ‘Big Dance’, and not played the extra games at home. Last night was also a second chance ‘Senior Night” as the home crowd got another opportunity to say goodbye to the graduating players. On to the Big Apple!

  26. house, not sure if you saw my post a cpl of days ago but if you didn’t I want to thank all your Alabama folks for sending us Justin Knox, he has been a god send to a team filled with youngsters just out of high school. He’s come in and become sort of the “dad” of the team. The bonus is he is a really good player…..

  27. krissy, Huffington has been more Charlie Sheen/Lilo and Paris Hilton than decent analysis for a while now…. the corporations are eating everyone’s soul…

  28. What is this that basketball thing again? I could fix that game, just sew up the bottoms of those nets, then the damn ball wouldn’t keep coming back out and those poor boys wouldn’t have to fight over who gets to try and put it back in again….

  29. now terry, be nice, we all have our little idiosyncrasies, basketball just happens to be one of mine……………lol
    anyway it’s nice to see how far the ladies have come in this sport. When I played it was pretty primitive, these girls today are world class athletes…………..Maya Moore at UCONN might be good enough to make a team in the NBA, she wouldn’t play much but I think she could make one of the teams………..”they’ve come along way baby”

  30. I agree Terry, corporations are eating our souls, I just wish the Attorney General would enforce the antitrust laws and break the big one’s up before they take us down again…guess that asking way too much….

  31. .Maya Moore at UCONN might be good enough to make a team in the NBA

    Whoaaaaa,”you’ve come a long way baby”, but not that far.

  32. Mad magazine long ago described basketball as a parade of scantily clad sweaty players marching up and down the court to make free throws resulting from the non-non-contact nature of the current game. Set a pick, throw an elbow. Player leaps, cut underneath. Make sure opposing player’s ankle turns on the carefully placed size 11 sneaker you moved under said player’s landing zone.

  33. BTW, I love the college game but am still pissed that my Super Sonics are now the Okie Dunderheads.

  34. There’s a considerable contingent of Seattle former NBA fans who would love to see David Stern in a roller derby match with 9 gorillas on skates.

  35. Doubling Down Dumb

    “I’d vote for @SarahPalinUSA in a nanosecond. (I’ve been saying the Oprah thing since ’08! Pop culture at Oprah level trumps politics!)” – Andrew Breitbart.

    For people like Breitbart, there is money to be made in duels. Animosity is temporary, residuals are forever. He doesn’t want this country to get better.

  36. RUC, I don’t get why they moved to Oakie, do they really think they are going to get more support in a TOTALLY football oriented state, that move made no sense at all

  37. I did say MIGHT badmood. Have you ever seen her play? She’s incredible

    I’ve seen her play a lot. But there are some male college of the year players who struggle in the NBA. This year’s best player, on many people’s list, is Jimmer Fredette of BYU, but the pro scouts only project him as an NBA role player.

    Not to mention the physical grind of a 100-game NBA pre/season.

    Brittney Griner of Baylor is the dominant big woman in college. She’d uhhh, struggle against men her size and bigger.

  38. Well bad, maybe it’s just my hopes getting in the way. I have an interest in women in sports getting better and better…………I know I’m alone in that based on the ratings. Even on my UNC blog you have to search to find references to the women’s bball team…………allot of them didn’t even know the ladies played and defeated Kentucky the other night. I own it, my agenda!!!

    • Hi krissy, I am a little late for that, but “Welcome to the Zoo”. As you can see, I’m not around too much, but I hope you make yourself at home here.

  39. Tweet 16

    March Migration Madness

    The votes are in and Dark-eyed Junco has eked out a win over the cantankerous Blue Jay, 973-864.

    Today: Cooper’s Hawk vs Wood Duck

    • Hi pete, I guess I haven’t seen you around here either. Are you new or am I just away too much? Welcome.

  40. pete, it’s difficult to pick ‘which of your children do you like best’?!

    Cooper’s are magnificent – especially maneuvering through the trees, picking up supper then exiting – all seemingly seamlessly.

    Wood Duck are beautiful.

  41. Well, it’s the least we could do…

    John Stossel on Fox: “Why is there a Bureau of Indian Affairs? … No group in America has been more helped by the government than the American Indians.”

  42. Ok,ok. there is one other deep seated prejudice in me, I don’t like most Greeks…

    GASP!! Shhhh….my dreamgirl, Tina Fey, may hear you!

  43. Krissy, the NBA was blackmailing the city of Seattle to upgrade the Key Arena. The city and county and state politicians declined, as we are still paying off the bonds we issued for the last upgrade 10 years back.
    So they let Cap’n Starbucks Shultz sell the team to Clay the Dipstick Bennett from Okie, and poof, gone.
    There is a group of investors ready to go with all but 70 million to construct a new arena for hockey and basketball, but all the political entities, faced with the reality of the current economics won’t vote a nickel in public funding for this. Maybe in a few years once the depression has run its course.

  44. Ebb – Damn. I was afraid of that!

    On a lighter note, Hi WitchyOne! Hopin NH is being nice to you and yours! Howz da Bear?

  45. I’ve not been out to Lexington Reservoir in sometime – thank the stars for others on that bird forum who caught this – (as we say it includes the ‘Jesus move’ – during courtship the ‘walk on water’ as part of their water ballet).

  46. Got to meet some of the Storm folks the other week. I don’t get the game at all, but they were good to meet and excited to be working with us on stuff.

    Happy to have the Storm in town, Seattle’s a great town to be a sportswoman in. Screw the… who were those other people anyway?

  47. Good luck with the test and any necessary interventions, Walt. I’ve a couple of friends who’ve recently had stents put in place. Even the last few years have seen significant improvements in the operation, so much so that the most recent friend was released one day after the operation. The whole procedure is significantly less traumatic & invasive than it used to be.

  48. Ebb: Today: “Cooper’s Hawk vs Wood Duck”

    My biases are so transparent — I automatically voted for the raptor w/o even looking at any pictures …

  49. Gary when we started this subject this morning I went to huff to retrieve a post that I had put up and brietbart and it had been deleted, not even sure you can classify them as “left of center” any longer.
    The bright side however is that everything AOL touches turns to crap so I suspect Huff Post won’t be around much longer

  50. I go to Huffpo when I want to see what Lilo wears to court, how many bimbos Charlie Sheen has shagged this week and if my immunity to the debatable allure of the Kardashian sisters is still intact. Is there anything else I should be aware of?

  51. Bearing band number 7333, “Wisdom” is the oldest known wild bird in the Northern Hemisphere at 60+. She hadn’t been seen since before the tsunami, but returned to her chick at the end of the day on Sunday.

    Sand Island, Midway Atoll, Papahānaumokuākea Marine National Monument

  52. gumm, that is an exquisite photo. Looks like an oil painting – the perfect timing of a perfect capture! As if it is on top of a pane of glass – the duck’s reflection ~ wow!

    (the ‘stop action’ gives the appearance of a duck decoy)

  53. They are by far the tastiest as well. They have an interesting combination of light and dark meat. Put a couple in a dutch oven with apples, acorn squash and maple syrup…mmmmmmm.

  54. Speaking on ducks and such…here’s the story in this gravatar:

    Black swan Petra swims behind a swan shaped pedal boat March 28, 2007 on the Aasee
    Lake in Muenster, northwestern Germany. Petra fell in love with the pedal boat already in spring 2006, never left its side and even spent the winter time with the boat at Muenster’s zoo.

  55. “Petra …… even spent the winter time with the boat at Muenster’s zoo.”
    Perfectly understandable, as the pedal boat couldn’t easily fly south.

    • Busy busy busy, Krissy.

      Preparing for hordes of young Vandals to swarm the campus, demanding their share of the classes in the Fall and plundering all the free t-shirts, mugs, and beer cozies they can.

  56. Gummitch,

    I can call Wood Ducks in with a whistle and I also talk to owls, other ducks, and geese. Last spring I saw a toddler eye to eye with a Canada Goose and let out a little “huh-luck”. The goose responded and the little boy turned big moon eyes towards me and informed his Mom that “that man talked to the bird”!

  57. zxbe – there was a Discovery program called I think Life After People which hypothetically projected how various parts of our civilization would disappear and how/when if we were all suddenly to vanish (like the Rapture for all – :) ).

    They loved to wander around the Chernobyl evacuation zone and give real examples. Tommythe Turtle and I really liked the science.

    Then someone from maybe a Detroit suburb said – hey – we’ve got it right here in Detroit and they go around churchs and offices and so on that were abandoned for decades etc. Or maybe it was Gary, IN, I forget…

    I took comfort from the notion that the earth would probably clean up a lot of our shit, given enough time..

  58. Who (snicker) did Pete Townsend wish he had played with?
    The Underage Sex Pistols?

    • Pete Townshend wishes he hadn’t joined the band that gave him enough money and fame for people to care what he wishes? Funny.

  59. Terry, I caught that show a couple of times. It was very interesting. In terms of earth cleaning up after us… I think she’s already started.

  60. “Preparing for hordes of young Vandals to swarm the campus, demanding their share of the classes in the Fall and plundering all the free t-shirts, mugs, and beer cozies they can.”

    giggle, zooey are you in Madison, Wisc today???

    • Shayne, I’ve made one phone call. :D

      It occurred to me last night that I didn’t know how to answer the damn thing, so Zoo Jr had to sigh heavily while he showed me.

      GREEN BUTTON. Heh.

  61. Zooey,

    The only feature I share with the phone is the vibrating alert.

    I come in a bit heavier at 220 lbs., but I can provide warmth. :evil:

  62. I got lucky last time I changed phones, the same sim card worked in my old phone, in case I had trouble. Do they still do that?

  63. I was addressing that question to anybody that might know. I’m coming up on the four year mark on the phone I have, so I might get a new one when I sever that tie to the future-ex, and get my own account.

  64. Seth Godin puts nuclear power’s danger in perspective. He notes that for “every person killed by nuclear power generation, 4,000 die due to coal, adjusted for the same amount of power produced”:

    “Vivid is not the same as true. It’s far easier to amplify sudden and horrible outcomes than it is to talk about the slow, grinding reality of day to day strife. That’s just human nature. Not included in this chart are deaths due to global political instability involving oil fields, deaths from coastal flooding and deaths due to environmental impacts yet unmeasured, all of which skew it even more if you think about it.

    This chart unsettles a lot of people, because there must be something wrong with it. Further proof of how easy it is to fear the unknown and accept what we’ve got.”

    http://sethgodin.typepad.com/seths_blog/2011/03/the-triumph-of-coal-marketing.html

  65. A SIM card is short for Subscriber Identity Module card. It is a tiny encoded circuit board which is fitted into GSM cell phones at the time of signing on as a subscriber. It holds the details of the subscriber, security data, and memory to store personal numbers. A SIM card stores information which helps the network service provider to recognize the caller. Whether it is a plug-in type or credit card sized, it retains the same uses.

    A SIM card is a removable memory card and can be put into any compatible GSM handset, permitting the user to keep the same number while changing handsets. It is a standard unique chip which is a must in every GSM cell phone.

  66. So to elaborate my question, is a 2007 sim card compatible with the newer phones? It’s the small one that slides into it’s slot when the battery is removed.

  67. what a concept! thanks badmoodman!

    So are you ever going to…….. wait, never mind, I’ll try ANSWERBAG!

  68. I never get anywhere asking those web questions, Badmoodman. It’s kind of like Help. It’s written for geeks by geeks, and they never have my topic available. Works that way with print manuals too.

    When I got this 40 inch Toshiba TV, and needed the directions to bolt the bloody base on it, so I could stand it up, I searched for an hour in the manual for where it said how to do it. Finally I found a single 8.5 x 11 sheet in the packing material that had a no-text diagram that used semaphore signals to explain the sequence of assembly. They were too dullardly to even say in the manual to look for the instructions somewhere else. I loathingly despise tech writers and some engineers (mostly the younger ones).

  69. MONTANA

    It’s a Tea Party world in Montana’s Legislature these days, and Gov. Brian Schweitzer, a Democrat, sometimes can’t believe his ears as newly elected representatives talk blithely of creating armed citizen militias and “nullifying” a slew of federal laws, reports The Associated Press. Schweitzer calls many of the proposals from the new Republican majority “kooky,” noting that they include “a plan to make it legal to hunt big game with a spear.” But because some of these laws are bound to land on his desk, Schweitzer has ordered a new cattle-branding iron that reads “VETO.” Says the governor, “Ain’t nobody in the history of Montana has had so many danged ornery critters that needed branding.”

    From High Country News….Heard around the West

    • Schweitzer calls many of the proposals from the new Republican majority “kooky,” noting that they include “a plan to make it legal to hunt big game with a spear.”

      In order to be allowed to hunt with a spear, one should have to do so in a loincloth and sell tickets.

      And popcorn…

  70. they include “a plan to make it legal to hunt big game with a spear.”

    I totally agree, with one small caveat; insert the word only between ‘with’ and ‘a’.

  71. In light of my flopped boycott, the seemingly worse job of moderation, and today’s major troll assault at TP; I’m hatching a new cunning plan. It’s less than a germ of an idea but goes something like this.

    Since TP has, rightfully, been getting more mention from other media sources; could said sources be enlisted to make TP moderate comments? I can’t help but wonder how a call or letter from, let’s say, Thom Hartmann would go over. I know that I’m distressed by the possibility of someone checking out TP for the first time, due to a h/t from a trusted news source, and judging the stories by what’s allowed to stand in the comments.

    Any impressions? Let me know.

  72. house, it depends on the phone. I upgraded phones several times with the same SIM card but when I got my Android phone, they had to create a new one. However, they can certainly preserve your phone book and move it to the new card, if that is your concern.

  73. I believe in at least one state, Pennsylvania, one can hunt deer with an atl atl.
    Though your chances are better on the interstate at dusk.

  74. Hillary is on my TV, NATO is going to enforce the no-fly zone. All 28 nations are on board.

    Pete, I always like cunning plans!

  75. Óscar Arnulfo Romero y Galdámez (15 August 1917 – 24 March 1980)[1] was a bishop of the Roman Catholic Church in El Salvador. He became the fourth Archbishop of San Salvador, succeeding Luis Chávez. He was assassinated on 24 March 1980.

    Today is the anniversary of the assassination of Archbishop Óscar Romero by a fascist death squad. He was murdered while performing mass. He was a strong proponent of liberation theology, the no-doubt dangerous belief that the teachings of Jesus are best followed by freeing the poor from their oppression.

  76. UN may take further action if Mommar doesn’t stop attacking civilians.

    Cease fire talks to take place in Ethiopia on Friday. Both sides to participate (government and rebels)

    No mechanism for humanitarian flights to get through the no-fly zone. That will be part of the discussions.

  77. …they can certainly preserve your phone book and move it to the new card, if that is your concern.

    No, Gummitch, just the ability to use the new card in the old phone, in case I ran into a new level of incompetence with the new phone. Recently we had to start using the 256 area code on all local dialing, and most of the numbers had to be edited because when I entered them originally that wasn’t necessary.

  78. zooey, would grizzly bears be included in hunting big game with a spear??? I’d love to have the popcorn and watch some guy go after a grizzly with a bow and arrow…………my guess is so would the grizzly.

  79. Thank you, krissy, but I have neither the resources nor patience. I also get really flaky when I’m up against a deadline. About all that I would commit to would be a monthly or bimonthly rant and I would still stress myself out.

  80. Krissy, do the Tarheels feel about Duke about the same way as Alabama fans feel about Auburn? Do y’all have the t-shirts that say, I’m for North Carolina and anybody who’s playing Duke?

  81. WaltTheMan, (I don’t want to seem buttinsky-ish. Seems Kris is gone for the evening) – the other day she’d stated FL.

  82. Thanks to all for the good wishes. I just do not deal well with hospitals. My spouse less so. I try to enlist her in the process so she can feel in charge. It simply just does not work. She now needs instructions as to how to get to pre-op. I said to ask at the front desk, her response would make one believe that I offered her up as her pimp. Perhaps she will cool down by Christmas.

  83. Walt is facing hospital time in the morning and yet he’s relegated to the guest room?

    I feel a bit like a voyeur.

  84. I think, after last nights fiasco, TP is paying closer attention to the trolls. Well, maybe. Time will tell – last night two of them came ‘in under cover of darkness’ – meaning late.
    I think with the posting of some very rude, crude and inappropriate photos they are keeping close eyes.

  85. random – Don’t know when the ‘clean up’ crew finally arrived – but the hardcore asshat trolls weren’t there today.

    There’s, obviously some reason TP does what it does – we’ll just never know.

    As you and other ITs point out where there’s a will (to rid of trolls) there’s a way.

  86. I don’t have cable so generally listen on line – for some can’t get tonights game to run. (can’t watch on-line because of the black out thing).

    I keep refreshing the scoreboard – they’re just starting the third – they’ll step up!

  87. I chuckle to myself – have followed the Sharks since they came to town. At the time was living on the Peninsula. “Marc” & I were skeptical Ice Hockey would take off in the Bay Area. We were so damned excited – listened and if I recall correctly – some of the first games were on regular t.v.

    Twenty years later – I still call it the Tank. HP can have their name all over it.

  88. Ebb,
    #5 seed Arizona beat #1 seed Duke, so that was a big upset, and this last game just ended with Butler, a #8 seed, beating #4 seed Wisconsin. I might be able to sleep now. I looked, but your Sharks aren’t on here tonight.

  89. House, glad the basketball games were entertaining this evening. Looks as if the underdogs are really making a showing.

    ——-

    In the March Migration Madness – one day next week: Peregrine Falcon vs. Northern Flicker.
    I kid you not!

  90. Dang – I went to shift the laundry – come back and see a 3-2 King score.
    I missed the Sharks 2nd and just heard the end of the King’s 3rd.

    Come on Sharks – you can do it!

  91. 3.2 seconds left – Sharks tie the score! 3-3 The Sharks are smokin’ melting the ice!

    OT – nail biting.

  92. (the audio keeps stalling…)

    Sharks have come a long way since the first games played a the Cow Palace. I still have a difficult time believing it’s 20 years!

    S.O. – five rounds – L.A. victorious. oh, too bad. (3-4)

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