The Watering Hole: December 7 — A day which will live in infamy…

The wrecked destroyers USS Downes (DD-375) and USS Cassin (DD-372) in Drydock One at the Pearl Harbor Navy Yard, soon after the end of the Japanese air attack.

On this day in history, the Japanese Imperial Navy attacked the United States’ naval base in Pearl Harbor, Hawaii.

From the Wiki:

The attack was intended as a preventive action in order to keep the U.S. Pacific Fleet from interfering with military actions theEmpire of Japan was planning in Southeast Asia against overseas territories of the United Kingdom, the Netherlands, and the United States.

 

The base was attacked by 353[10] Japanese fighters, bombers and torpedo planes in two waves, launched from six aircraft carriers.[10] All eight U.S. Navy battleships were damaged, with four being sunk. All but two of the eight were raised, repaired and returned to service later in the war. The Japanese also sank or damaged three cruisers, three destroyers, an anti-aircraft training ship,[nb 2] and one minelayer. One hundred eighty-eight U.S. aircraft were destroyed; 2,402 Americans were killed[12] and 1,282 wounded.

This shocking attack led to the United States declaring war on Japan, and our subsequent entry into World War II.

This is our daily open thread — What’s on your mind?

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252 thoughts on “The Watering Hole: December 7 — A day which will live in infamy…

    • My dad enlisted in the Navy two weeks after Pearl Harbor. Served as a medical corpsman on board a destroyer in the Pacific, then was transferred to the Marines and served in the Aleutians for the last year of the war.

    • I miss George. His straight talk was not only humerous and ironic, but truthiness delivered with style.
      BTW, did y’all know that he narrated hundreds of episodes of ‘Thomas the Tank Engine’ kids series?

    • George invited us all to “sit back and watch the freak show”….. wish you were here to see this George.

  1. My common sense adage of the day
    “People who actually fight in a war are the ones least likely to support another”.

    Caveat: wars on ideas like drugs, terror, aren’t wars, they’re slogans.

    • “…wars on ideas like drugs, terror, aren’t wars, they’re slogans.”

      Not to mention that they’re money pits, and they kill or ruin the lives of innocent people.

  2. Is it ironic that Eisenhower, when he ran for President, ran on a platform of Peace?

    • And, once elected, taxed the shit out of the wealthy, and built hospitals, schools and oh, yeah…the Interstate Highway System…!

    • His warning on the increasing influence of the MIC was spot on. And we didn’t listen.

      • Listening to Senator/Governor ‘Macaca’ running for Senate again this coming year in Virginia

        Same old platform: lower taxes, smaller government, more miltiary spending ….

        Reporter talks about how Virginia is home to the naval bases, Pentagon, CIA and legions of parasitic contractors sucking off the defence dept teat…. and yet who ever asks “Why?”

  3. History repeating itself?
    China Navy buildup, and a comment from the Pentagon peanut gallery:
    “Nobody’s looking for a scrap here,” said Pentagon spokesman Admiral John Kirby in quotes carried by the AFP news agency. “Certainly we wouldn’t begrudge any other nation the opportunity to develop naval forces.”
    Compare to this little known chapter in history. I chose this article because it includes differing views. I can’t help but see some of the same motives underlying these attitudes.

    • My personal opinion is that the Chinese have a lot of problems coming their way .. resource problems and social problems. Too many to waste on picking a fight with a nation whose only world class export is violence.

      Besides the Chinese are patient, they can wait …. same as the Soviet Union and the British Empire and the Spanish….. the US will collapse under its own weight of guns, greed and misplaced exceptionalism.

      • The Chinese will mostly contain themselves to their neighborhood, pressuring Malaysia, the Phillipines, Korea, etc. Thereby saving the US from having to deal with those populations, and at the same time corralling the cheap labor resources the US depends on to keep the shelves at Wal-Mart stocked.

  4. Serial adultery? Fine. Mormonism? Ummm… :

    “Gingrich’s favorable rating among white evangelical likely caucus-goers is 60 percent – compared to just 31 percent for Romney. Only 18 percent hold an unfavorable view of Gingrich, compared to 43 percent for Romney…. More than half of likely Republican caucus-goers (55 percent) say it is at least somewhat important a candidate share their religious beliefs, a figure that rises to 80 percent among white evangelicals. Eighty-five percent overall (including 77 percent of white evangelicals) say they would vote for a Mormon candidate, though just 67 percent say most people they know would vote for a Mormon.”

    Another way to put this is that 23 percent of white evangelicals will not vote for a Mormon, period. They even ranked Gingrich’s personal life higher than Romney’s.

    http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-503544_162-57337973-503544/newt-gingrich-strong-with-iowa-evangelicals-tea-partiers/

    • There’s some ‘family values’ voting right there….. one always thought that the rank-and-file of the Christo-fascist Falangists actually were true to their ideology, whatever it was and you could at least admire their conviction? You know: that if marriage was sacred, then they voted that way, the decent family guy who’s worst crime was strapping his dog to the roof of the car – right?

      Apparently wrong. The lying to oneself and to everyone else, the venal greed, the hypocrisy – it goes all the way through right down to the flag-waving brownshirt at the back of the column…

      They’d rather vote for a lying, crooked, cheating, hypocritical, lobbying, pus-filled bubo, than vote for a cardboard cutout corporate cultist than have a wog in the White House.. – (its a bit long for a bumper sticker, can anyone help me here? )

      • The GOP: Self-aggrandizing distortions of reality over the hollow flip-flopper.

        Shorter version: Narcissism beats The Man With No Core.

  5. I survived my own little naval disaster yesterday afternoon, got caught in a rip current and was thrashed and dashed upon the rocks. I don’t know how close I came to finding out about the afterlife, two or three more waves probably. Wet suit, life jacket and choosing not to panic saved me, at one point I looked to the sky and said: “Please let me get through this!’
    The (non-verbal) response from above was basically “Do what you have to do…”
    A little stiff from all the swimming this morning; I was in the water for about 20 long minutes, otherwise no scrapes or bruises, and the only loss was the fishing rod. Grateful to be alive, considerably wiser as to what my abilities are at sea, and am going to fish off the dock for awhile. Don’t mean to interject my personal woes into the situation here, but I thought someone should know… :)

    • We’re grateful you know how to swim and your survival instincts are perfect!
      Fishing rods are easily replaced — Ravens can not be!

      Glad you’re safely on land!

    • I would have thought the response from above would be “Don’t swim alone, Raven!”

      Twenty minutes is a long fucking time in our bit of ocean.

      • The messages are still coming in, and that is one of them.
        It was a long time.
        I’d scoped out this beach for a week, waited for what looked like ideal conditions, and still got caught. The kayak now has enough barnacle inscribed graffiti to serve as a reminder for a long time to come.

    • Glad you’re okay!

      Your take on the response from above reminded me of a classic old joke.

      It had been raining for days and days, and a terrible flood had come over the land. The waters rose so high that one man was forced to climb onto the roof of his house.

      As the waters rose higher and higher, a man in a rowboat appeared, and told him to get in. “No,” replied the man on the roof. “I have faith in the Lord; the Lord will save me.” So the man in the rowboat went away. The man on the roof prayed for God to save him.

      The waters rose higher and higher, and suddenly a speedboat appeared. “Climb in!” shouted a man in the boat. “No,” replied the man on the roof. “I have faith in the Lord; the Lord will save me.” So the man in the speedboat went away. The man on the roof prayed for God to save him.

      The waters continued to rise. A helicopter appeared and over the loudspeaker, the pilot announced he would lower a rope to the man on the roof. “No,” replied the man on the roof. “I have faith in the Lord; the Lord will save me.” So the helicopter went away. The man on the roof prayed for God to save him.

      The waters rose higher and higher, and eventually they rose so high that the man on the roof was washed away, and alas, the poor man drowned.

      Upon arriving in heaven, the man marched straight over to God. “Heavenly Father,” he said, “I had faith in you, I prayed to you to save me, and yet you did nothing. Why?” God gave him a puzzled look, and replied “I sent you two boats and a helicopter, what more did you expect?”

      I’ve always liked this “joke” as it frustrates me that certain religious types won’t use the resourcefulness that God gave them. They expect everything to be handed to them on a heavenly platter.

      Again, glad you’re okay Raven, and way to use your resourcefulness. :)

      • Thanks zxbe. As I was bobbing around I could see several other people on the beach, heads down as they looked for rocks or shells or whatever. Even if I could have gotten their attention, they wouldn’t have been able to get out to where I was.

    • Yikes! Rip currents are not your friend. Glad you made it out. Sounds like a very scary incident.

      • Fish under the dock and around the pilings.
        Everyone casts out and fishes the open water when in reality, the fish are hanging out up against the pilings and structure.
        Pry some fresh mussels from the rocks and beneath the mussels you should find pile worms.
        Pile worms and fresh mussels will slay them.

        P.S. Glad you came out, that water is cold.
        Also, tie a line to your rod with a small clip on the end of the line.

        • The seals hang out under the floating docks, I saw one a couple of times flash by underwater, but never saw it come up for air. Then I realized it was coming up underneath for a gulp.
          Hmm. Got a lot of lines already, the paddle had a leash on it, so did the camera box. In the initial spill one foot got tangled in one or the other, I had to pull the boot off to get free. I actually went back in after the boot once the boat was shoved up into a crevasse.

        • Do you have an ocean kayak (sit on top) or a kayak that you have to crawl into to sit?

          • It’s a sit on top. Which are a bit more top heavy, but if I had been in a sit-in-side I’d be crab bait by now.

            • I’ve been on sit on tops in open water, but not the ocean.
              And My hubby and I used to take sit insides through the Montlake cut on Lake Washington in Seattle. Bumpy ride, that one.

              Glad you are still cawing.

    • Oh my, Raven, do be careful! I’m glad you didn’t panic and are here to tell the tale.

      • Me too. Here’s the tail of the tale:
        As I was dripping and draggling up to the parking lot at the end of it all, a late middle aged woman came stepping carefully down through the rocks, tea cup in hand, who asked me “Are you coming or going?”
        “Going” I replied. “I just had a rather bad time out there, I capsized and was thrown up against the rocks.”
        She looked at me, then at the sea, and asked “Do you have much experience ocean kayaking?”
        “No”, I admitted after a pause.
        She just kind of smiled, looked at the patch on my jacket, and said “So, you’re from New Mexico?”
        “Yes…”
        “What part?”
        “Southwest corner, Truth or Consequences.”
        The woman proceeded to tell me she was from Alaska, but had gotten hurt, had to leave Alaska and was now heading south, and that people had told her New Mexico might be nice. I told her, it’s nice right now, but it gets hot in the summer time.
        We parted, she went on about her beach walk, and I went about my business of loading the kayak and changing clothes.
        She returned as I was getting ready to leave, got into her mid ’70′s Chevy pickup which was loaded from stem to stern with totes and boxes (the tailgate was even down, with one protruding tote strapped to the rails) [which had each a small caribou antler bolted to the sides] and started it up. As she pulled alongside, she rolled the window down and said “Now you’ve got a story to tell, about currents..”
        Her face had this inscrutable yet knowing glow to it that I cannot describe.

        Every once in awhile my path crosses that of another who has something to teach, something to share, an elder, a shaman, a shamaness. This brief encounter with someone on their own journey, not knowing where they are going, and not too worried about it, an exchange of information, and a knowing nod from each, is the brightest patch of sunlight in this whole tale.

        • I love those moments. And I love how you described this one. Best of luck to her in New Mexico. And you with two feet on the shore for awhile.

    • Hey Raven, it’s good to know you’re back on land. That must have been a right scare. A very unpleasant way to be reminded of man’s powerlessness (does this word exist?) against nature. Fishing off the dock definitely has its merits.

  6. Summertime in Antarctica… the article does not specify whether any donated tsunami relief funds were used, but I can’t help but wonder if that might be the case, and if any of our aid to Israel goes towards providing “extra security measures” for illegal settlement building.

    • This statement leads me to believe a yes on the tsunami relief monies financing the slaughter:

      Japanese officials argued when they applied for extra funding that whaling helped coastal communities.

      As for Israel, my suspicions would also say yes. (there always seems to be “justification” for people/countries to do the imprudent)

      • I agree, it was relief funding going towards the whale slaughter, I was wondering if it was actually money donated towards tsunami relief from other counties.

  7. I’m off to buy a bed frame in Otis — half price!

    Then maybe I can stop running around for a day or so, and get this place finished.

    Laters.

  8. I Just saw this one:

    Give a man a gun
    and he can rob a bank.
    Give a man a bank
    and he can rob
    the world.
    –Anon.

  9. Batscat Bachmann is afraid that removing anti sodomy laws from the military code of justice will – wait for it- encourage children to engage in bestiality. I really hope that someone asks her at what age she told her kids they would go to Hell if they screwed the pooch. Did she allow a pooch in her home? My guess is that she would forbid animals so that her kids weren’t tempted by their raw sexuality.

    http://thinkprogress.org/lgbt/2011/12/07/384106/bachmann-is-concerned-about-bestiality-in-the-military/

  10. In this screen shot from Rachel’s show, that’s my sister in the upper left (with the blonde hair) applauding at Obama’s speech in Kansas yesterday.

  11. Huntsman hollows out The Hollow Man even more. Maybe Huntsman should pivot toward Newt too:

    • Huntsman’s courting of the insane is very disappointing. I happen to think that we need two or more viable parties in order for democracy to function and Hunstman seemed like someone who, while having zero chance of winning this election’s nomination, could serve as a voice of reason who could lead the GOP back from the abyss of insanity. Alas, his quest for power has forced him to embrace the crazy and become part of the problem.

  12. Breaking News Alert
    The New York Times
    Wednesday, December 7, 2011 — 1:58 PM EST
    —–

    Former Illinois Gov. Rod Blagojevich Is Sentenced to 14 Years in Prison

    Rod R. Blagojevich, the former governor of Illinois, was sentenced on Wednesday to 14 years in federal prison for 18 felony corruption convictions, including trying to sell or trade the Senate seat that President Obama left behind when he moved to the White House.

    The sentence, which fell just short of what prosecutors had asked for, came about an hour after Mr. Blagojevich apologized in court to residents of his state, to the judge in his case and to his family.
    Read More:
    http://www.nytimes.com/2011/12/08/us/blagojevich-expresses-remorse-in-courtroom-speech.html?emc=na

    • Was the senate seat trade the worst thing he did? There’s 18 counts of this and that in there….. for a sitting governor? 14 sounds fine.

      So now, who’s next? Let’s put some more people away. So far only Martha Stewart has done time from Wall Street’s Grand Larceny? REally Martha Bloody Stewart is all we’ve got?

    • OMG!!! Seriously? A man that wants to destroy the top ten stories of the United Nation for Sec. Of State? A man who would start WWIII if he could by bombing Iran at the outset?

      And… (since Blago was mentioned) talk about bad hair choices….

      • The UN needs to revisit it’s charter and policies. Make it one nation, one vote and move the headquarters to a civilized nation.

        • Wily Coyote for Secretary of Defense.
          He is highly qualified to keep up the endless expenditure for useless weapons programs.

    • Newt Gingrich . . . NW Ginger Itch? . . . is nuts.

      Hmmm. Ginger Itch and nuts would be a close fit for Herman Cain, I guess.

      Bolton?

      Crazy crazy crazy. :shock:

    • DeLay will be out of prison during a Newt presidency. I’m sure he could be offered a job.

      But in the mean time, perhaps he can offer Palin a job as press secretary. She has such a way with words… and the press.

    • And Gingrich should go back to calling the Secretary of Defense, the Secretary of War. The Tea Partiers will like this as that’s what the founders called it.

      Too bad Bolton’s going to be SoS, because he’s make a great SoW.

  13. Odd thought for the day. Gays should rebrand and remarket. Form a new Christian Church of Jesus My Brother and Sister. After all, he never married, hung out with a bunch of guys, ran around in robes and loin clothes and said we should love our neighbors as ourselves. This is at least as solid a claim on Christianity as any other sect has and would be a real thumb in the butts of the Fundigelicals. And they could be tax exempt!

    • My favorite MASH episode with Harry was before he became Sherman Potter. The one where he played Col or Major or General Steel and ended up wandering off singing “It’s a treat to beat your feet in the Mississippi mud.”

      We will all miss you, Harry. You were one of the finest supporting actors ever to grace our media.

      • Loved him in MASH.

        But I was wild about him in Dragnet.
        “Just the facts, ma’am.”

    • Someone should really ask these dorks why if America is supposedly this staunch Christian nation we have never had a Department of Religion in our Cabinet.

        • The fundies, who seem to want less government interference in our lives, are the ones pushing hardest for more religious control in our government. Since the Catholics comprise the largest single group of Christians in America, this should mean that it would be Catholic doctrine that would dictate how Christian the country is. Evangelicals comprise a similar number but they are like Protestants, like seeds in a banana; lots of them, all scattered.

      • Bush had a Department of Religion and they put Monica Goodling in charge of hiring. One could also make the case that the “C” Street cult functions as a department of Religion in the House and Senate. They don’t quite fulfill the Dominionist ideals that a Bachmann or pRick Prayerry would bring upon us but they are close enough that i will fight them too.

  14. Have I mentioned how deeply I despise Batscat Bachmann? This little piece reminds me of a story that changed my outlook.

    A very dear friend of mine is a gay woman with two kids. The kids were conceived and born the old fashioned way before she realized she was gay. Well? One day, while she was out of town, her daughter suffered acute appendicitis. Her partner was not allowed to approve emergency surgery, approve the use of narcotics, or even stay with the young gal in the emergency room. The father, it was found out later, was in a drunk tank. The child waited for several hours, in excruciating pain and at risk of death, until the grandparents were tracked down while a responsible, loving, adult was forbidden from even holding the child’s hand as she suffered.

    If I were unfortunate enough to meet Batscat face to face I would tell her, after I spit in said face, that our laws regarding gay spousal and parental rights are crimes against humanity.

    BTW. The girl made a complete recovery and has graduated from Stanford as has her younger brother. Both “kids” are happy, healthy, productive members of society and each is worth more than any million fundies who would tell them that their success is an aberration.

    http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/12/07/michele-bachmann-elijah-gay-rights_n_1134947.html

    • pete, one of my favorite questions for the rabid fundy types is, How many civilizations, countries or empires were brought down because of gay people? Now, how many were destroyed by radical religious fundamentalists?

      • Well? The fundies would argue that Sodom and Gomorrah were brought down by homosexuality but any sane person who reads the relevant passages is forced to conclude that they were destroyed, by their “loving God”, because they were thieves and rapists. Plus, of course, there’s not really any proof that they were real places.

        • Fact is, there hasn’t ever been a ‘gay’ nation in recorded history to my knowledge. But there have been many theocratic ones. All collapsed. In fact, when a nation begins to attack their citizens for being gay is a pretty common reason for said civilization to fall.

    • While Batshit may believe she “loves everyone,” her actions put the lie to that assertion.

      She would have the families of illegal immigrants torn apart, with the parents being shipped off to who-knows-where, while the children are forced into foster homes.

      She happily discriminates against the LGBT community at every turn — even those in the military.

      As a side note, I don’t agree with the way Elijah seemed to be put up to making that statement to Batshit. Using your kids is wrong, no matter where you are on the political spectrum, or how noble you believe your cause.

      • I can’t help but wonder if part of Shelly’s insanity is she knows deep in her little heart she is married to a gay man. And her kids carry gay genes. And what does it say about a Christian woman who is married to a closeted gay man? Might she be gay? Or just a sinner? So many deep questions for such a shallow mind.

        • She’s crazy, but she really can’t be that stupid. I’m sure she feels quite superior to the rest of us because she married and “cured” a gay man. That’s how she knows it can be done, right?

          I sometimes wonder if Marcus lives a life of quiet desperation…but since he tortures other gay people in an attempt to “cure” them, I mostly don’t care.

      • I tend to agree but we don’t know the whole story. It’s common for politicians to seek questions from children and, while it’s certain that he was coached, i simply don’t know if he was coerced or pushed. Plus, if the mother had stepped up to Batscat and said “I’m gay…” Batscat might have run, screaming, from the room. It’s also possible that the mother tried to ask a question or make a comment and was turned down.

        Either way, Batscat’s assertion that she doesn’t condemn homosexuals or that it’s not an important issue for her is a damnable lie. A simple Google search of “Bachamnn homosexuality” reveals a long and fervent record of anti-homosexual comments and positions including an assertion that gay marriage is the most important issue of our time. She has every right to be cruel but I get really angry when she turns around and lies about it.

  15. We need a 28th Amendment. Very simple and concise.

    American citizenship is defined as conferred on those human beings born in the United States or the biological progeny of at least one US Citizen parent, regardless of geographical birth place or anyone who has passed the test for citizenship as established by Congress. All citizens of the United States are guaranteed equal rights under the law.

    Any US Citizen who espouses or attempts to deny rights to any other citizen will be shown the door and sent to the country of their choice.

    • I know it’s not germane to the story but what kind of parents would name their daughter “Spike Dolomite”? It might explain why she, apparently, allows her feelings to control her thoughts and actions.

        • I’m guessing that the parents were beatniks and at least one was a geologist. Still, if my parents had named me “Muse Piano” or “Integrated Circuit” I might have murdered them in their sleep.

    • This is the sad mantra. “I’m against all that scary socialist stuff until it is my ass on the line and I realize suddenly I am not part of the 1% and never will be.”

  16. I have a computer question.

    The left shift key of the keyboard that came with my new computer is wonky so I have to go back and capitalize stuff when I finish a comment. How much should a person pay for a decent keyboard? i don’t seem to suffer from repetitive stress in my hands, though my neck and knees are shot from a lifetime of labor, so I don’t need the ergonomic keyboard with the curved face and wrist rests. I just want something with decent key action. Any suggestions would be very appreciated. Thanx!

    • Look under the left shift key, the assembler may have dropped a grain of rice under there while she was working through lunch to meet quota.

        • I’ve found that to be the case with the 10 to 15 dollar boards.
          The whole keyboard on my Asus notebook is so spongy I have to tap very lightly.

          • This is the one that came with the new computer and I got a VERY good deal so I’m not averse to adding a keyboard. The part that pisses me off is that it’s just the one key. Aside from that I have found the new one to be an upgrade.

            • In the immortal words of Archie Campbell (paraphrased) “Doc, if I use this key it hurts.”

              “Well, then, don’t use that key.”

            • Well, hooda, I have tried to just ignore the letters that aren’t capitalized but I’m just a bit too anal to let it go. I realize that I’m the only one who really cares if every stroke of the key works out but, if I’m going to spend a portion of my day pointing out the stupidity and idiocy of the Reichwhiners, I figure I should at least try and apply proper punctuation.

            • I suppose it is appropriate that it is the Left Shift Key. A Right Wing plot obviously. :)

    • Check out TigerDirect. A real basic keyboard runs around $15. A decent keyboard is $20-30. They have silicone sealed keyboards for $20. I have tended to stick with Logitech but there are so damn many off market mfg.

    • I’m using a $19.95 (bought on sale) Logitech cordless keyboard that came with a cordless mouse, which I don’t use because I use a cordless trackball, also Logitech. I sit in a recliner with the keyboard on a pillow in my lap, and it works just fine for me. I find the home/end, page up/down, and delete keys vary most from one keyboard to the next, so look for one that suits you well there, too. The one I use at work is all wrong for me, but I just have to get by with it.

      • So, another vote for Logitech? That would work for me because it seems like everyone carries them and I can shop for a deal. I still like my old mouse even though it has a rubbery surface and collects a bunch of schmaltz. I even bought an extra so that I won’t have to change when the current one craps out.

    • The left shift key of the keyboard that came with my new computer is wonky so I have to go back and capitalize stuff when I finish a comment.

      Wait, what? If you can “go back” and capitalize why can’t you do that in the first place? How do you “go back and capitalize”?

    • I have an Dell keyboard on my main system that I got about 17 years ago. The machine is gone. This micro-switch keyboard is so old that the top row is in Roman numerals. ;) It works very well so far.

  17. Not to make fun of how people look, but they could have passed a 5 gallon pail up for him to stick his head in.

  18. Can I make the observation that keeps coming back to me about Gingrich? He’s just a bully with a big vocabulary. Sad strange little man.

    • One of the liberal talk radio hosts, perhaps Mike Malloy, called Newt the “Godfather of Gridlock”. Very apt.

      The scary part is that so many people don’t know Newt’s history or have conveniently forgotten. The guy is corrupt to the core and was forced to resign in disgrace but the “librul media” insists on calling him “Mr. Speaker” and treating him like an honored elder statesman. It makes me sick.

    • Newt has a strange ego. It might have something to do with marrying his High School math teacher. He is a prime example of an alligator mouth that can’t cover the butterfly checks his butt writes.

    • There was a time when a disgraced politician simply went away and kept their heads down. What has happened?

          • Thankfully confined to about 27% of the population. If the CDC would just push the recommended cure of education.

            • I don’t think it would work. It seems like most children born to idiot parents grow up with the same Beliefs and prejudices even if they rebel against the parents themselves. Just look at the Miss U.S.A. contestants asked if evolution should be taught in schools. Many of them said “no” but every one of them bought into the false equivalency of “teaching all sides”. They are a reflection of our society. Bill Maher may have said it best:

              “It’s not fair and balanced to give both sides of a story equal weight if one of them is bullshit”.

            • Those girls in the video in the Miss America contest have all been born after the Reagan administration and the beginning of journalism being forced into presenting “both sides of the story” in an effort to make journalists go out of their way not to appear liberal. The pendulum has swung way too far in the wrong direction. It is due to come back.

      • Newt’s a special case. His self importance he thinks everyone should be entitled to.

    • Inevitable. The Occupy Movement is technically a terrorist movement under the present definitions. It causes terror and fear in the established structure. If you look back in history, the French Revolution went trough a period known as the Terror. Rich people who think their asses are on the line will definitely feel terror.

      All told, this is a predictable step and a good one.

    • I saw that too. In a way they’re right. The OWS movement is a threat to the powerful people. I can’t really blame them for being scared even if there isn’t any physical threat. Their Beliefs are being exposed and that makes people crazy.

    • It’s sort of interesting that terrorist came to be known as anyone who used terror to promote their ideal. Poor people who revolt against their government in 3rd world countries are considered terrorists because they hate being poor and screwed so they make bombs.

      Poor people in civilized countries who revolt against their government because they are tired of being screwed haven’t had the advantage of having someone teach them how to make IED’s to express their feelings.

      The major difference between someone in Afghanistan who has lost their home and is pissed and a person in Des Moines who has lost their home and is pissed is the US hasn’t sold Iowa explosives.

  19. Jeebus!

    My upstairs neighbors are so quiet that I forget they’re up there. When they do make a noise, it startles the bejeebers out of me. :shock:

        • I was just pinging a little. When I lived in Jax in a ground floor apt I came back from a 3 month trip to Baltimore to discover my upstairs neighbors had filed no less than 6 noise complaints against me.

          Multi level apts can be interesting.

    • I once lived below a heavy woman with grandchildren. I learned to tune out her clomping and the kids’ jumping but she would really piss me off when she was slamming her dresser drawers early on a Sunday morning. I even had her over for a fabulous meal and gave her some felt bumpers for her dresser drawers but it didn’t help. Even though I’m old enough that stairs can be a trial, and our elevator scares the crap out of me, i really like living on the top floor!

      • I have always lived on the top floor, and I like it for the same reasons you do. I’ve also been very careful to be considerate of my downstairs neighbors, but I guess not everyone bothers with consideration.

        • There are many, Many, MANY, people who have no consideration for others. Somehow, I don’t think that those people would gravitate towards The Zoo. Funny story time…

          Waaaaaay back in the 70′s, when feminism was new and exciting and militant, I made the unwitting mistake of holding a door for a militant feminist. She gave me an icy glare and said “I can open my own doors”. I said, “I wouldn’t let my worst enemy be hit in the nose by a door”, and we shared a good laugh.

          Seriously though, I was brought up in a courteous, some might say “too formal” household and it’s my nature to be polite to a fault. Except for Reich-wing trolls. The only mercy I show them is to phrase my insults so that they would have to be smarter than the average troll to realize that i insulted them.

          • It’s always best to err on the side of courtesy. Anyone who takes offense at common decency just proves their assholeishness.

            Here’s a t-shirt I saw recently, and I think many of the Zoosters wold appreciate it: If I got smart with you, how would you know?

        • We were on the second floor in Marietta. When the apartment below us went empty during the winter for awhile we almost froze to death. You see, heat rises…

  20. Penn State pervert arrested AGAIN.

    One victim, identified as Victim 9 in court documents, testified to the grand jury that Sandusky’s wife, Dottie, was home while the victim was being abused and “on at least one occasion, he screamed for help, knowing Sandusky’s wife was upstairs, but no one ever came to help him.”

    Now I really do wonder if he abused his own children…

    • I Believe in non-violence, in the Gandhi tradition, but I could strangle Sandusky, and his ilk, without a peep from my conscience. The same goes for anyone who abuses a child whether it’s sexual abuse or other kinds of abuse. I think that part of that is because I’m not a parent and was never forced to really “grow up” but I sure managed a lot of kids when I was running restaurants. I identify with children and would move Heaven and Earth to protect them.

      • I think most people feel that way, pete. Unfortunately, these kids — already at risk — came up against a money-making machine populated by people who apparently think of some children as disposable.

        If there is no criminal charge to be made against those who enabled Sandusky, there should be social consequences. But there won’t be…

        • Well? At least Paterno got fired. Even without his alleged cancer that could prove to be a death sentence. That being said; the NCAA should punish Penn State and examine every related program that deals with children. Time for another funny story…

          My parents never really treated me as a child and I grew up as a bit of an alien. From a very young age I felt that other children were silly and superficial and, in some ways, beneath me. i gravitated towards adults and I was somewhere between precocious and arrogant. That extended to teachers. I still have a note from my 3rd grade teacher where she told my parents that i could teach science better than she could. I thought that was about the best thing that anyone ever said about me!

          It was only later in life that I really learned how to play. So? I have probably played a bit more than is healthy for most adults. when I was managing kids in restaurants i encouraged a playful atmosphere as long as the work was getting done. Every few months, as the staff turned over, i would call a meeting. Basically, i would tell the kids that i would tolerate almost anything that didn’t send anyone to the emergency room (I had a perfect record and the only people I ever had to send to the emergency room were stupid and/or careless adults).

  21. Breaking news:

    Newt Gingrich Is in Love With Himself

    “I don’t want my country to collapse. I don’t want my daughter and wife raped and killed,” Speaker Gingrich told a stunned Atlanta Journal-Constitution reporter in 1994 in explaining why America, nay, the world, needed him. After all, he told her, “People like me are what stand between us and Auschwitz.”

    No wonder T-rump likes him.

    • “People need to hear what I have to say. There’s no one else who can say what I can say. It doesn’t matter what I live,” Gingrich explained to Wife No. 2,

      The man makes Genghis Khan look like Gandhi.

      • That’s why I don’t think it’s funny to cheer for Newt to get the GOP nomination. He’s an amoral narcissist, and truly dangerous.

        • I used to think that Nixon was about the lowest creature the Repubs had ever fielded. Ronnie was a dork but not evil. GHW a mechanic out of his league. GW, your basic idiot. Newt ranks up there with the nastiest humans who have ever run for public office. He has absolutely no human linkage. He and Dick Cheney are about the worst politicians ever, in at least 2,000 years of history. No heart, no soul, no humanity.

      • Hubris, much?

        On the other hand, Newt has a habit of blowing himself up. One can only hope. Although, I’d enjoy the showdown between him and Romney. Newt is fast with the words, Romney, not so much in an unrehearsed situation.

    • My eternal favorite Newt quote:

      “Gingrich—primary mission: advocate of civilization, definer of civilization, teacher of the rules of civilization, arouser of those who fan civilization, organizer of the pro-civilization activists, leader (possibly) of the civilizing forces.”

      If someone wrote me a letter like this, I’d assume he needed mental health care. I particularly like the random insertion of false modesty with that lovely parenthesis “(possibly)” Wouldn’t the Presidency be a step down for Newt?

      • The paycheck would certainly get smaller, unless Newt would be the propaganda video-making, book-signing presidunce.

  22. I want Newt to get the nomination. The other morons are just sort of weird, including Mitt. Not a one of them who make a decent opponent for the President. Now, just imagine the StaPuft Newt debating Barak. The best the Republicans can field, their genius against The President. My dog could make Newt look like an idiot in a debate so just imagine what would happen with the goof from Ga and the President. It should outsell the Super Bowl but I would love to hear it.

      • I hear that but it is the difference between an heir apparent and an incumbent. An incumbent who easily has Slick Willy’s advantage over the Tinman. I would dearly just love to see Newt get his overinflated ass handed to him by a competent Dem President. Again.

  23. So, Newt’s sister, Candace Gingrich-Jones, on Rachel’s show, says it’s pronounced, Gingrick

    Hmmm…

  24. Gingrich shut down the government.
    He belongs to the Party that declares ( and ensures) that government is the problem—by dismantling it from within when in power and wielding it like a club, and then crippling it with childish,obstructionism, delaying tactics, irrelevant and ridiculous legislation for the masses and massively profitable legislation for the 1% and welfare for the select ‘super-citizen’ mega-corporations.
    He games the lobbying system as much as convicted criminal Jack Abramoff. He created a fraudulent charity for kids from which he paid cronies and lied about it. He wasted $50 million trying to prosecute President Clinton and demanded Clinton;s impeachment over a brief extramarital episode when he himself was in the middle of an affair himself.

    THIS is the current GOP “frontrunner”? And the media takes him seriously? Because the other potential candidates don’t seem to have his ‘presidential’ qualities? I seem to remember in 2008 Gingrich was generally acknowledged as being an unelectable pretender, and nomination went to…. McCain with the snow-billy grifter Queen Palin as running mate!
    Even Palin has been rejected by the loonies and McCain was only ever the default candidate who needed Palin for her star power which, as it happens, wasn’t quite as strong as her crazy stupid ignorant petty cunt power.

    The stupid, ignorant, asinine media is even dumber than the average Republican in not ntocing or willfully ignoring the colossal depths to which the GOP has sunk. The more consideration of ANY of these GOP candidates is a national embarrassment and very dangerous for the future.

    And meanwhile a significant portion of the Democrats and Obama in particular clearly still imagine that they really don;t have a fight on their hands. If Obama and the present Democrats “win” without any change in the Congress, America loses—”winning” by default isn’t a “win”, it;s a loss to a very destructive status quo that has already severely damaged this country and thus will only continue to do so. .

    • 5th makes an appearance!

      Citizens United ensures that whoever gets the GOP nomination, Obama will have one hell of a fight on his hands.

      It’s a fight we can’t afford to lose, especially to a psychopath like Gingrich.

    • An old Republican saying…When you are shoveling shit, it don’t matter which pen you are standing in.

  25. The last Newt thread got crowded so i’m starting another one (damned keyboard!).

    Newt is the most dangerous candidate for the GOP nomination. the same fundies who would stay home if Mittens wins the nomination will show up and vote for Newt. He’s their link back to the false panacea of the Reagan years. it doesn’t matter that he’s corrupt to the core. He says what they want to hear and he’s not a woman, a ni99er, or a Mormon.

    • There is all that, pete.
      And of course the ultimate choice is the same as we Democrats face–you either: vote FOR your candidate and hope for a win
      vote AGAINST the OPPOSITION candidate and hope for a win
      FOR a MINORITY candidate, lose but maintain your INTEGRITEH!
      OR NOT VOTE AT ALL, maintain your INTEGRITEH! and spend the next 4 years bitching that , HEY, IT’S NOT MY FAULT YOUR CANDIDATE SUCKS!!! ,

      • I know people who refused to vote in 2008 because they “didn’t like either candidate.” If they start in on the pissing and moaning about politics, I refuse to listen or respond.

        To me, voting is not only a civic responsibility, it’s buying bitching rights. No voting, no bitching!

        • I wrote in “no” for president in 2000. I didn’t like Gore much, because i still believed the “librul media”, and I identified Bush as a moron of the worst kind because he couldn’t manage a simple sentence in his native tongue. In my defense; i realized that, here in Minnesota, Gore didn’t need my vote nor would I be able to put Bush over the top even if I wanted him to win.

      • Just for the sake of clarity I should mention that i still don’t identify myself as a Democrat. I’m an independent who recognizes that the GOP has been seized by a bunch of insane freaks. I pine for the days when one could make a choice between two or more qualified candidates but i don’t see a return to those days in the immediate future. It makes me sad.

  26. Secret Service takes guns, handcuffs from Kansas birther threatening Obama

    A Kansas birther, who publicly announced that he was planning a citizen’s arrest of President Barack Obama, was told Monday by the Secret Service that he would be arrested if he came near the president.

      • It’s a cry for attention of course.
        He can’t handle the idea of a nigger + a Democratic being President so rather than cope with it he has make a scene,
        NOW of course, he will get to be the “victim” of ‘Obama’s thugs’–not his own stupidity and lunacy.
        The whole trick to such plans is to keep it a SECRET–at least until you confront your target, whereupon you have the option of explaining the why and the how of your actions ( not forgetting the “you and I are not so different after all speech” before activating the unnecessarily slow dipping mechanism and relasing the ill-tempered mutated sea bass).
        ,

  27. BTW regarding OWS…

    From my part-time secret underground Wall Street monitoring lair, on the rare occasions that anyone has mentioned anything touching on the socio-political at all (say, about fracking, or reducing “head count”) the only mentions have not been of the Republicans or Democrats, but of OWS—which is impressive seeing as these people don’t usually talk about anything other than how much money they have made and how much money the expect to make regardless of politics or social consequences.
    So the fact that they are even aware of OW S (I’ve heard no actual invective about OWs, unlike the politicians and the media) is worthy of remark.

    • BillO’loser is an effen racist to the nth degree. Attempting to down grade the President at every turn.

      • The weird part is that his racism might be the least offensive part of his personality. Spending much of my life in rural Minnesota, where there simply aren’t any minorities, I have learned to look past the racism of those who have never even met a person much different than themselves. There are good people who, through ignorance, are racists but Bill0 isn’t one of them.

          • I think it’s pretty much the same in any northern rural community. They aren’t bad people, they are just terribly ignorant of the world at large. I really thank my parents for taking me on trips to Europe when i was young, and spending a few years in a very integrated suburb of San Diego, so that i was able to appreciate the value of other cultures. That helped me avoid falling into the xenophobia of rural America.

            • That’s one reason I’m glad I grew up in a Navy family. Traveling is good for kids! It reduces the tendency to fear the unknown.

  28. She’s beyond clueless. Obviously forgets it was the Government who inoculated the country against Polio myelitis.

    As for regulations – should just any fly-by-night ‘chemist’/drug company be able to manufacture what they believe to be the ‘cure-all’ without any oversight?

    I truly, truly detest this woman.

    Michele Bachmann Loves Vaccines After All

    Michele Bachman, who was condemned as an anti-vaccination conspiracy theorist after suggesting that Gardasil causes “mental retardation,” said Wednesday that she was in fact a big supporter of vaccines. Not only that, she thinks there are too many regulations on them.

    Bachmann told a gathering of the Republican Jewish Coalition in Washington that cures for polio and other diseases “literally changed the course of history and this was good.” Until the government got in the way, that is: “[T]he problem is that bureaucracy has risen up to such an extent that today because of the FDA and other measures we’re no longer seeing the miracle of cures that were coming forward,” she said.

    • The fact that Crazy Shelly is irrelevant in the big picture doesn’t diminish how despicable she is. Every time she opens her yap I feel ashamed for my beloved Minnesota, our country, women, and humans in general. Drawing on a surreal song I’ve been working on… She’s like a haberdasher that’s open at 3:00 A.M.

      “This should not be” (that’s the chorus). She should not be. The human race doesn’t currently deserve anyone as vile as she. I would never commit a violent act but i will take any measure, short of violence and within my limited means, to ensure that she is relegated to the scrap heap of American politics.

    • “because the Republicans have spent the past 20 years slowly de-funding and demolishing the FDA and using other measures such as corporate deregulation we’re no longer seeing the miracle of cures that were coming forward,”—FIXED

      • We eradicated smallpox and polio by mandating vaccinations despite the risks. “The needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few”. Despite coming from a silly Star Trek movie; that’s one of the basic truisms of human existence. Society can not exist without it.

  29. An interesting note about pRick Pervy’s god-awful hateful ad on Youtube about gays in the military/prayer in school:

    2,625 likes, 110,037 dislikes

    *snort*

    • 113,530 dislikes now. I’m glad to be one of them.

      I am soooooo sick of Dominionists. I’m sick of them telling me that I’m going to Hell. I’m sick of them fighting basic science. I’m sick of them being bigots. And I’m extra-specially sick of them lying for Jebus. If Obama is “fighting a war on religion” it’s against the Muslim faith and pRick Prayerry should be overjoyed. Oh, wait, he’s a fuckin’ moron and liar who wouldn’t recognize reality if it rammed a howitzer up his ass!

      Hmmm. I’m drunk and getting mean. G’night, good people. That doesn’t include you, pRick Prayerry!

      • Goodnight, pete! Your ‘enhanced with adult beverages’ rants are always a treat to read – ‘mean’ doesn’t come through.

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