The Watering Hole: June 8 — Paper ballots, please.

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I thought it might be a good idea to go back to a post by nwmuse in 2008, and pull out a video series of an interview of Stephen Spoonamore by Velvet Revolution (about half an hour to watch the videos), regarding the sorry-assed Diebold voting machines some states are using in our elections.

nwmuse said it better than I can:

Every American who cares about  living in an actual democracy, not just the illusion of a democracy, with full, fair, and transparent elections, should watch these videos. This man [Spoonamore] is a cyber security expert, and he is also a longtime conservative Republican. He is clanging the warning bells, and explaining with absolute clarity and detail, that our elections ARE being stolen, and warning that we must do something to stop it.

Oh look, it’s four years later, and we’re still using the same machines, and we are no closer to any sort of paper trail or reliable auditing.  Like Spoonamore says, these machines are designed perfectly for stealing elections, while letting the people think we still have a vote.

Our representative democracy is in jeopardy, if it’s not dead already — and whether or not it means a damn thing — paper ballots, please.

This is our daily open thread — Thoughts?

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162 thoughts on “The Watering Hole: June 8 — Paper ballots, please.”

  1. Paper ballots are fine if they’re not Angel Soft. This is an issue that MUST be revisited over and over until the integrity of who I or you vote for is correctly recorded. I’m sick of this shit.

    • Oh, and good morning. Come on, get out of bed, have your morning coffee, there’s work to be done.

    • My 10 year old son could probably hack those machines and change the results – he’s already banned frmo using the school computers for the rest of the year – I’m so proud. ;)

  2. According to Badmoodman, it’s Friday ‘all day’ today. Here’s what him saying that reminded me of: All Day Music (this song is forty years old! I have the 8-track of the album!)

    • I have the 8-track of the album!

      The question then becomes, do you have the 8-track player?

      Mellow soul music – nice!

  4. QOTD

    Why does mindless puerile escapism always trump personal story telling and social satire?

    Bill Griffith/Zippy the Pinhead.

  5. A week ago I put up this link to Crooks and Liars, where, on a UK program called Newsnight, Krugman debated austerity with a Tory venture capitalist, Jon Moulton and Andrea Leadsom, a British MP who ‘worked in finance for 25 years’ before her election to Parliament in 2010. Her wiki bio doesn’t specify that she recieved a degree, just that she ‘studied’ political science. At the end the host of the program said to come back and tell us all about the Estonian economy. Rather than return to the UK, Krugman did the next best thing, he put it in his NYT column on Wednesday.

    Now the Estonian president is in a snit.

    I’m headed out to the shop (17 miles away) until the temp gets too high for me. No internet out there except my phone.

      • Not ‘the shop’ where I work, ‘the shop’ where my cars and parts are stored.
        I’m back home now. I forgot my cell phone and didn’t even know what time it was, but I got a lot done. The place is starting to shape up, as I slowly get it arranged like it needs to be. When it’s all there just piled in the floor, the ADD kicks in and I don’t know where to start, but as I sort out what to put where, it becomes easier to make my time out there pay off. The office has two regular windows that I can put 110v air conditioners units into, so I can do inventory work this summer. I need a smart phone that I can use to make a wifi hot spot so I can be out there more.

  7. And the MSM will report Rmoney & Oh-bama in a statistical tie up to election day…

    We’re being played, but most people go along with it so long as it doesn’t affect them directly. And, when it does affect them directly, they blame the democrats/libruls, etc. Because that’s who they’re told to blame.

    • Most people don’t really care because they need to get back to their regular programming following the “Brittany Spears” of this world.

    • That will aid and abet the possible use of Diebold and other electronic machines to once again baffle the pollsters and we might be waking up listening to the stupid shits on the news shows twisting themsevles in knots like in 2004 to explain why everyone coming out of the polling booth seemed to indicate Obama and yet the precinct went to Rmoney……

  8. I just put up a new thread that warrants some discussion. I plan on keeping it up over the weekend so those that can’t view the video at work will have a chance to view it at home.

  9. QOTD:

    “I was trying not to squeeze myself in front of women out there, I wanted to pull my pants down and run inside, but I couldn’t do that. When those ants get close to those testicles, there ain’t no laughing about that.” — Dallas Cowboys fullback Lawrence Vickers, leaving practice early with fire ants in his pants.

    • Anyone familiar with fire ants would understand.
      They are very ill-tempered insects that attack everything and anything with virtually no provocation..
      Commonly refered to as red ants below I-10 .
      They should be the mascot of the republican party.

    • My eldest got a diaper full of fire ants when he was a little guy. I couldn’t get his clothes off fast enough, and he didn’t try to stop me, even though he was a very modest kid.

      Very painful bites, and they last a long time.

  10. U.S. debt load falling at fastest pace since 1950s – Yahoo! Finance

    WASHINGTON (MarketWatch) — Everyone knows America has too much debt. What they don’t know is that things are getting better, not worse.
    Little by little, our economy is reducing its debt burden, slowly repairing the damage caused by 10, 20 or 30 years of excess.
    …
    The rapid rise in federal debt over the past four years has distracted us from the big picture. The level of public debt is indeed worrisome, but it’s not as big a worry as the economy’s total level of debt — public and private.
    …
    As much as we hear politicians, pundits, tea-party patriots and the Congressional Budget Office obsessing about government debt, it was excessive private debt — not public debt — that caused the 2008 financial meltdown.

    Emphasis mine. Private debt, not public debt that caused the meltdown.

    • You have to remember, private debt is being reduced in two ways: 1. through bankruptcy, and 2. through no longer being able to get credit.

      Most folks are now in a position of having to pay as you go. I remember when things first turned south – every single one of my credit cards immediately reduced my credit limit to the amount outstanding – and continued to reduce the credit limit as I paid down the cards.

  12. Euro 2012 about to get under way in Poland in the next 20 minutes….. Spain looking to win it’s third competition in a row (Euro 2008, World Cup 2010), but exciting young teams like Germany and France plan to stop them. Holland, beaten by Spain in WC2010 in a knarly final, where national icon Johan Cruyff spurned his own Dutch team for their lack of style, seek revenge. The Republic of Ireland, cheated by the ‘Hand of Henry’ from being in WC2010, finally get their chance. And finally, riven with injury, one key player left out because another player was charged with racially abusing his brother and a new manager of only 2 months …. usually rabidly overhyped England expects ….. nothing much this time.

    Watch out for lots of neo-Nazis getting their goosestepping on …..

  15. I’ve got a comment that must be offensive. And I didn’t use the ‘c’ word which apparently is the new ‘f’ word!

  16. Jon Stewart hits it out of the park. AGAIN.

    “I’m beginning to think this whole media ‘is it fair’ conversation is a time-killing circle jerk, but that would be a disservice to circle-jerks because even circle-jerks end with some kind of tangible conclusion….What if instead of asking if politician’s attacks are fair, maybe you could find out if they’re true or accurate or relevant.”

  18. Is anybody listening to The Ed Schultz Show? Who’s the guy subbing for Ed?

  19. QOTD II:

    “Because of things I have done on behalf of justice to the workingman, I have often been called a Socialist. Usually I have not taken the trouble even to notice the epithet. I am not afraid of names, and I am not one of those who fear to do what is right because some one else will confound me with partisans with whose principles I am not in accord. Moreover, I know that many American Socialists are high-minded and honorable citizens, who in reality are merely radical social reformers. They are oppressed by the brutalities and industrial injustices which we see everywhere about us. When I recall how often I have seen Socialists and ardent non-Socialists working side by side for some specific measure of social or industrial reform, and how I have found opposed to them on the side of privilege many shrill reactionaries who insist on calling all reformers Socialists, I refuse to be panic-stricken by having this title mistakenly applied to me.” — President Theodore Roosevelt

    • Elect resurrect Teddy!
      An insightful man to be sure.
      Thanks for the National Parks System TR!

  20. PM Carpenter has reached his limit of Romney’s unethical stench:

    ” There no longer exists any doubt that Mitt Romney intends to win the White House by conducting the most dishonest, unscrupulous and reprehensible campaign ever devised, in mere whimsy. The unethical stench of this man is not only breathtaking, it’s meteoric. I have never seen anything like it, never heard anything like it, never imagined anything like it.”

    http://pmcarpenter.blogs.com/p_m_carpenters_commentary/2012/06/a-moral-abomination.html

    • If Mittens had a conscience or any moral fiber, after reading that, his ears would be ringing the rest of his life.

      But he doesn’t, so they won’t.

      And the strong daddy worshipers lap it up like pablum…

    • I think the thing that bothers me the most is the parade of media Reichwhiners blabbering about Mittens’ “consistency” and “commitment”. Give me an effing break!

  21. SNAAAP:

    Herman Cain: “On a bad day, Gov. Romney is going to be 1,000 times better than Obama on a good day.”

    Dave Weigel tweet: “He’ll kill 1,000 bin Ladens?”

  22. Willard embodies the concept of American Exceptionalism and is the natural candidate for the endtimes of of the MIC and republican effort. He publicly stands for nothing, stands on and for repeated lies, believes every one of them and is doing his best to sell them. His background is riddled with crap, his history a pathetic show of privilege without essence or body but damn, he looks good.

  25. A prominent Pennsylvania Democrat switches parties and endorses Romney because of the president’s support for marriage equality. Fair enough. She’s entitled to her views and her choice of party. But what worries me is this:

    “As the Democratic Party has taken the stand for same-sex marriage, then I must make a stand on my faith that marriage is between a man and a woman. God’s principles for life never change. His guidelines, given in Scripture, produce fruitful lives when you follow them,” Nardelli said while making the announcement of her party switch in the Blair County Courthouse.

    Then the politics-religion lines blur even more:

    Monsignor Anthony Little of St. Patrick’s Parish in Newry was with Nardelli during her announcement. He said Nardelli consulted him before making her decision. He said what Nardelli did “takes a lot of courage.”

    So a priest advises a political candidate to switch parties and appears at her side in a public announcement of a partisan switch. When is someone going to have the BALLS to end their tax exemption?

    http://www.altoonamirror.com/page/content.detail/id/561072/Gay-marriage-stance-turns-Nardelli-over–to-Republican-side.html?nav=742

      • It takes a lot of courage to stand by an interpretation of 2000 year old redacted documents? That’s not courage, that’s placating to bigots!

    • “I believe in God more than America.”

      Sounds like a good reason to become Republican.

  26. I just managed to get my mom’s old cutting table down the stairs without destroying it or killing myself.

    I need a drink.

  27. The talking heads on MSNBC keep talking about “leaks” out of the WH, and Obama addressed it as well, but what leaks!? I can’t find anything about leaks.

  30. I see both Rmoney and Christie are getting a public woodie about cutting public sector jobs. Myself, I would love to see the strike come back. I would love to see the cops and firefighters walk off the job. Same with waste and water treatment plant employees. I would love to see someone organize a 2 day strike by all public employees. I would love to see everyone turn on their taps and get no water. Flush their toilets and get no refill. Traffic lights to all go dark. No flights from any airport. No response to anything but blatant emergencies from police and firefighters.

    A blackout of public services, the longer the better.

    • That would send a powerful message.

      Yeah, the repiggies are totally better with jobs and the economy. They’re just better at destroying them.

        • That’s a lot more difficult these days. Unions are pretty well gutted, and the big corporate owners have enough money to ride out the storm and/or take everything overseas.

          • NPR was reporting on how the ‘job creators’ those corporate people were sitting on a record amount of cash right now. Record profits, record cash balances ….

          • The good news these days is if public employees staged a strike or a sick out or whatever it would hit the public immediately. It isn’t about breaking an employer, its about waking a public.

            • Odd thing, or not so odd. We had a “revamp”/cut waaaaay back on public employees retirement plan on Tuesday’s ballot – of course the ignorant voted for that!
              Our local, union, fire and police have co-operated, for years, in trimming back during economically hard times…our “Mayor” (spit and double spit) did the old back stabbing.
              Of course the Mayor can now say it was the citizenry who voted.

              I’m pulling for the public unions and if they want to strike (in my city)…do it!

  32. wow….Nazi, Muslim, Black Panther, Boy, Cotton-picker, Mud Person, Marxist, Socialist, Communist, Racist, Fagot, Monkey Boy….

    all because i called an NRA member a “yellow coward who hides under his bed with his bible and gun”….

    redneck people who think democrats want to take away their guns are pretty much bottom feeding scumbags….

    • Nazi, Muslim, Black Panther, Boy, Cotton-picker, Mud Person, Marxist, Socialist, Communist, Racist, Fagot, Monkey Boy….

      Wear it with pride, fatherbob! It means you’ve pissed off a right-wing nut job!

    • When the government comes for their guns, it will be a Republican run Government that takes them.

    • Murdered in cold blood, then his mother is held hostage by the police for hours while her son’s body lies in the street, and then the dead child’s brother is arrested for good measure. While the murderer relaxes at home.

      Our society is broken.

    • When did the ‘death penalty’ become the sentence for alleged “stealing”?

      Old effen white fu.. afraid of the monsters under the bed so needs to arm himself… his punishment best fit the crime of murder!

      • The kid only lived there a month. And he’s black, “of course” he’s to blame for the alleged theft. At least in the mind of the elderly white neighbor. Besides, that will teach him a lesson.

        What I can’t figure out is this: Is whatever someone stole from you worth living with the knowledge that you took his life? Apparently these perps don’t really look too far into the future.

        • The stunning thing — one of many — is that this old white man felt perfectly entitled to accuse, try, and execute this boy, simply because of the color of his skin, even though the child was not threatening him in any manner.

          I say that because the shooter wasn’t arrested for shooting any white boys in the neighborhood.

          Why, oh why, do people think it necessary to protect their fucking “stuff” with deadly force? It’s only STUFF!!

      • Maybe he’s next week’s sub for Ed too. He’s got Robert Reich on right now.

        • I like that he let’s people TALK.

          Ed annoys me sometimes by not letting people finish, even though I love his passion.

          • Thom Hartmann was on The Ed Show last night because he was in New York at the Talkers Convention yesterday.
            David Sirota did Thom’s show yesterday I heard Thom say today. I like Sirota. He should be the next Progressive to get a national show , either on radio, or a stint on MSNBC or Current.

            • I think Sirota has a local show in Denver… I would like to hear him on a national level though.

            • Yes, he’s on from 7-10am mountain time. He’s up against Stephanie Miller and Carl Wolfson in Portland, and who knows who else. There’s just not enough time slots for all the talent on the left. I remember reading Sirota on Huffpost 5-6 years ago when it was still just the news page and the blog page.

  38. The topic of public sector jobs always focuses on teachers, firemen and police. If no one commits a crime on you, you’re not on fire, or you don’t have kids in school, those are not the public sector jobs that affect you the most. Let the power go off, or the sewer backs up, and you are really glad those public employees show up and get things fixed right away!

    • When did that change? I’d rather pay for things that don’t affect me at this very moment than not, since we all benefit from public sector jobs in some fashion.

      I remember old cranks coming into the Clearwater County treasurer’s office almost 20 years ago, complaining about having to pay property taxes to the schools, since they didn’t have kids in school. That just flabbergasted me!

      These were members of the “greatest generation,” and yet they were pissed off about paying anything for future generations.

      I can honestly say that I truly hate selfish people. I don’t hate easily, but there it is.

      • I’m just talking about what directly touches more people in their daily life. Police and fire protection lowers insurance rates, which affects everyone, but to some it’s intangible. The lights go off, and immediately you have an impact.

        It used to be said that people appreciate things proportionally to the cost of paying for them. For Reich wingers, I’d say it’s inversely proportional instead.

        • I understand that, House. But still, people out there think that because they don’t have kids in school, or because their house never caught fire, then they shouldn’t have to pay. I don’t understand that.

          I agree with you completely.

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