The Watering Hole, Monday, June 11th, 2012: Which Christ is more “Christian”?

I’d like to expand a little on a comment posted yesterday by Briseadh na Faire:

Many of the basic tenents of liberalism are summed up thusly:

I was hungry and you gave me something to eat, I was thirsty and you gave me something to drink, I was a stranger and you invited me in, I needed clothes and you clothed me, I was sick and you looked after me, I was in prison and you came to visit me. Matthew 25:35-36. But we refuse to give credit to the man who said those things, hence lose the “Christians”.

Give credit where credit is due – own up to following Christ’s teachings, whether or not one proclaims one’s self to be a Christian…

In other words, Liberals, who follow the teachings of Christ, need to take the evangelicals on, on their own ground. It is, after all, who we really are.

After reading this, I could not help but think of the contrast between what the pastor of a local church espouses, and what a particular Catholic organization espouses.

The pastor of the local Patterson, NY, Baptist Church, a Dr. Larry A. Maxwell, is the founder of an organization called Brighter_Future.us. In the “About Us” section on his website, Dr. Maxwell states that, under his ministry, the local Habitat for Humanity for Putnam County was established. Okay, that’s nice. On the other hand,

“Dr. Maxwell is one of the few men ordained to the ministry by the late Dr. Jerry Falwell, Pastor of Thomas Rd. Baptist Church, Lynchburg, VA. Dr. Falwell, was the founder of Liberty University and Moral Majority. Dr. Maxwell graduated from Liberty University in 1975 and was active in Moral Majority, one of the organizations that helped Ronald Reagan become President.”….”The Governor of Kentucky bestowed the title of Colonel upon Dr. Maxwell for his outstanding service.”

Check out what Dr. Maxwell lists as “5 Areas of Influence That Shape Our Society” – why, as a pastor, does Dr. Maxwell list “Government” first and “Religion” fourth? Note that, under #3, “Media“, Dr. Maxwell says: “Media has perhaps the greatest influence on all of us. We Need To: Encourage & Endorse media which presents fair & balanced news and avoid those which do not. Hmmm, I wonder whom he’s talking about? What’s also scary is that, while Dr. Maxwell is the head of the “Living History Guild” and is the official Town Historian for Patterson, NY, under #4, “Religion“, he claims that “Religion once provided a moral compass for our society. The overwhelming majority of our Founding Fathers were men of faith committed to Biblical moral principles.” Also note in #5, “Family“, “We Need To: Recognize marriage consists only as a union between a man & woman who make a lifelong commitment to each other before God & man.”

Dr. Maxwell’s list of “Necessary Qualities for Leaders” contains some pretty scary crap, too:

2. Belief & Dependence on the Divine God

Leaders must recognize the fallen state of man and his imperfections and the necessity of help from the Divine God for man to reach his full potential.

3. Love for Our Country

Leaders need a Commitment to the original intent of Our Founding Fathers & the documents they drafted such as; The Mayflower Compact, The Declaration of Independence, The Constitution and The Bill of Rights. They must believe the best government is Limited Government, answerable to the people at all levels. Leaders must honor our history as it happened, not rewrite or redefine it.

4. Commitment to Family Values

Good leaders must recognize, embrace and encourage traditional family values.

6. Belief in Free Enterprise & Property Rights

Leaders must understand Free Enterprise & Property Rights are two important foundations. Government must encourage, not interfere with, nor over regulate, free enterprise & property rights.

And if any doubt was left that Dr. Maxwell and his group are dyed-in-the-wool conservatives, the list in the “Contacts and Links” section reads as a veritable who’s who of conservative/right-wing organizations, including The Cato Institute, The Heritage Foundation, Family Research Council, Focus on the Family, etc.

By contrast, take a look at the issues with which Catholics United concerns itself:

- trying to restore funding, denied by the US Catholics Bishops, to an immigrants’ rights group called Campaneros, which doesn’t discriminate against gays.

- speaking out against the U.S. Catholic Bishops and Catholic institutions who continue to fight the contraception coverage requirement under the Affordable Care Act, despite the exemptions therein.

- Organizing against Paul Ryan’s budget because it does nothing to help the poor.

- Organizing alternative charitable organizations to counter the stripping of funding by U.S. Catholic Bishops.

It certainly seems to me that it is the people at Catholics United who are following the teachings of Christ (which all of us liberals follow in one way or another), rather than the pastor of the Patterson Baptist church. It makes one wonder if there is a different Christ within each human-authored version of the bible.

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157 thoughts on “The Watering Hole, Monday, June 11th, 2012: Which Christ is more “Christian”?

  1. I put this up last night, but since it was late on a Sunday, some may have missed it.

    Former ‘God’s Banker’ Could Blitz Vatican With Cache of Secret Documents

    The former head of the Vatican Bank has become the Papacy’s Enemy Number One, after police discovered a trove of documents exposing financial misdeeds in the Holy See. The banker now reportedly fears for his life.

    Earlier this week police conducted a dawn raid on the house and office of Ettore Gotti Tedeschi. Investigators say they were looking for evidence in a graft case against defense and aerospace firm Finmeccanica, which was formerly run by a close friend of Gotti Tedeschi.

    Instead, as it turns out, police stumbled upon an entirely different find.

    They discovered 47 binders containing private communication exposing the opaque inner workings of the secretive Holy See. They included financial documents, details of money transfers and confidential internal reports – all prepared by Gotti Tedeschi to build a convincing expose of corruption in the Vatican.

    • I like the comment referring to the “land level lowering”. It is that which will result in “reoccurring flooding”.

      How dare our responsible politicians try to poison the debate with liberal code words like “climate change” and “rising sea level”.

      • I did not realize that words were divided into liberal words and conservative words.

        I know that there is such a thing as conservapedia — the conservative answer to wikipedia, but now there is going to be a con-dictionary? or would that be contradictionary?

  2. I learned all of my “Christianity” from my father. He was an atheist, a non-denominational non-theist who had no interest or belief in any god-based mythology of any kind. Period. But he was still the best “Christian” I ever knew. He cared. He was intrinsically honest; tolerant. He well understood the differences between right and wrong, even the more subtle ones. And he practiced his philosophy of life, non-stop, without exception, without prejudice. I learned more from him concerning life and its implicit responsibilities than I could ever have learned from any clergyman, from any denominational entity, from all prelates combined on the entire planet over the entire of human history. The bottom line, I learned, is simple. Belief in religious bullshit is meaningless and very often (but not always) contrary to the ideal, the idyllic, behaviors implicit in honest caring about life’s impact on the greater surround. If Jesus did indeed exist and say the things attributed to him in the various gospels, then he was a man of worth. They’re rare. But I’m fortunate: I knew one.

    Thanks, pop.

  3. Asked if this statement was a basic tenet of his alleged faith…

    I was hungry and you gave me something to eat, I was thirsty and you gave me something to drink, I was a stranger and you invited me in, I needed clothes and you clothed me, I was sick and you looked after me, I was in prison and you came to visit me. Matthew 25:35-36

    Dr Maxwell would reply, “Yes, but…”

    • Faced with a similar quotation on Twitter, Dana Loesch responded with a quote from Jesus: he that doesn’t work doesn’t eat. Except it’s not from Jesus, but part of a letter from Paul to a fledgling community struggling to survive. And it clarifies that instruction to say this applies only to the strong and healthy and does not apply to people who are sickly.

  4. The ‘trickle-down” effect we’ve been promised for the past 35 years has finally arrived….we’re living it, and i’s not as advertised.

  5. Did Republicans deliberately crash the US economy?

    “Republicans have opposed a lion’s share of stimulus measures that once they supported, such as a payroll tax break, which they grudgingly embraced earlier this year. Even unemployment insurance, a relatively uncontroversial tool for helping those in an economic downturn, has been consistently held up by Republicans or used as a bargaining chip for more tax cuts. Ten years ago, prominent conservatives were loudly making the case for fiscal stimulus to get the economy going; today, they treat such ideas like they’re the plague.

    Traditionally, during economic recessions, Republicans have been supportive of loose monetary policy. Not this time. Rather, Republicans have upbraided Ben Bernanke, head of the Federal Reserve, for even considering policies that focus on growing the economy and creating jobs.”

    At some point, Obama has to stop sounding defensive on the faltering recovery and start pointing to who is actually responsible.

    http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2012/jun/09/did-republicans-deliberately-crash-us-economy

    • Yep, he needs to pull a Truman, but The MSM isn’t going to cooperate and it doesn’t seem to be in Obama’s public persona to get angry enough to bang a shoe on a table…. so how is this message going to get out?

  6. Incumbent presidents always have a tricky re-election campaign, because they have to balance a defense of their record with a set of proposals for the next term. Often, the mandate is vague – and you won’t find a better summary of the risks and opportunities involved than Ryan Lizza’s terrific (and lengthy) new piece in the New Yorker.

    http://www.newyorker.com/reporting/2012/06/18/120618fa_fact_lizza

  7. Have the wingnuts laid blame yet at Obama’s feet for his Commerce Secretary’s hit-and-run escapade this morning?

  8. So, in future news, the Supreme Clowns of the United Schtatz will be ruling soon on the AHCA, and the line in Vegas says 3:1 (note: Vegas hasn’t actually set odds yet…) that they’ll overturn the mandate, and most of the rest, excluding any provision that makes for windfall profits for hospitals, insurance companies and medical device manufacturers…

    • The Catholic Churce has ceased to qualify for tax exemption. Their foray into the body politik precludes and forfeits their exempt status

    • What a strange ad. I found it interesting that they chose a woman for the voter as if this is going to draw women to support candidates that want to criminalize birth control and abortion.

      • It seems to me more men to be obsessed with stopping abortion and birth control than most women. I wonder why that is? ;-)

      • first they need catch up that 237 years of back taxes, and turn over the pedophiles for prosecution….then they’re allowed to speak..

  9. Andrea Mitchell just lets Eric Fehrnstrom of Romney’s campaign go on and on with spouting of lies and half truths, with nary a question or challenge.

    I really dislike this woman.

      • Whom she chose to marry says a great deal. They deserve each other.
        oh, and she’s still one of the worst “journalists”.

  10. Speaking of hatin’ on the Black people, here is a fascinating piece on the Mormon doctrine toward non-whites, and an intriguing look at their general wackadoodleness. Also, the miracle of God responding to the IRS, just as He once did in regard to polygamy. As the author says, Mittens learned his Etch-A-Sketch principles from the LDS.

    Worth reading the whole thing, but here’s a taste:

    All human spirits were born sons and daughters of God and one or more of His wives, on the planet that God lives on, which is near a star named Kolob (koe-lawb)

    Adam and Eve were white people, living in the Garden of Eden in what is now Jackson County, Missouri, who looked like Anglo-Saxons (like 19th century Mormons).

    Cain was a white man until he killed Abel, so God changed him into the first Negro.

    • Just make it up as you go, and say and do whatever it takes to get what you want. Yep, that’s Mittens alright.

      • Oops. I love the notion of God living on another planet. Say what? If anyone can clearly distinguish their doctrine from L Ron Hubbard’s, I’d love to see it.

        When looking at the Old Testament and its Creation myths, I remind myself that the words were written down a very long time ago, when every culture’s Creation myths were ridiculous. LDS does not have that excuse since the Book of Mormon was written in the 19th Century, when the rest of the Western world was going through an Age of Reason.

      • Yep you’ve got it right – cuckoo for cocoa puffs these Mormons – seriously, people who beleive this stuff walk amongst you pretending to be normal human beings…

    • But, But, But John Fogelsang says that the mark of Cain was actually the first evidence of the mercy of God for giving Cain the first Pardon.

  11. From MaddowBlog:

    This is what not listening looks like

    [T]he committee chair gaveled the meeting closed with witnesses against the bill still waiting to testify. At the 3:40 mark, you can watch as one of those witnesses gives her testimony anyway.

    • Seeing all those ‘old’ Republicans acting in typically disgusting Republican fashion reminds me yet one more time of cartoonist Al Capp’s comment he made on Johnny Carson’s Tonight Show back in either the late sixties or early seventies, when he said: “What I want to know is, where were our liberal abortion laws when we really needed them?” Still true today, possibly more true than ever before, actually.

  12. I hope you’re sitting down and your blood pressure is good…

    Neocon nutjob (oh, how redundant of me) John Bolton pens an op-ed on Syria:

    “It would have been one thing to work with the Syrian diaspora to remove Assad and the Baath party when we had a massive military presence in Iraq, right on Syria’s border. In the days just after Saddam’s ouster in 2003, conditions were optimal (if nonetheless imperfect) for overthrowing Assad and replacing his regime with something compatible with American interests. We would not have needed to use U.S. ground forces. Our mere presence in Iraq could have precluded Iran — or, what we see today, an Iraq under Iran’s influence — from trying to protect Assad.”

    But the neocon wetdream of a permanent occupation of Iraq and the ousting of Assad is just the start:

    “Significantly, U.S. intervention could not be confined to Syria and would inevitably entail confronting Iran and possibly Russia. This the Obama administration is unwilling to do, although it should.”

    Remember what Romney said about Bolton:

    “John’s wisdom, clarity and courage are qualities that should typify our foreign policy.”

    Think about that for a moment. Are you terrified because Romney believes that? Or because he’ll say anything to get elected?

    http://www.nationalreview.com/articles/302104/what-do-about-syria-john-r-bolton?pg=1#

    • There is a reason why the US continues to spend as much as the next 16 or so countries on the military and it has nothing to do with protecting America. The rest of the world is in for a rude awakening in the not too distant future.

      • The f’ing warmongering walrus wants to confront Iran and Russia? That man is insane.

        • You first Yosemite Sam, we’ll parachute you into Homs tomorrow with your M16 right away.

    • Yosemite Sam jerks off clutching a box of plastic soldiers every night ….

    • I have to say that Bolton’s foreign policy ideas have been standard issue in the US for a very long time, although in the past driven in large part by corporate convenience — also known as “American interests.” Under those rules, it’s perfectly ok to overthrow the government of a sovereign nation because someone in the government doesn’t like them.

      • The past few decades have been previews of coming attractions. Now that the USSR and China are no longer the evil global threat America is on track to expand their sphere of influence without fear of serious opposition. Or at least that is what the power brokers figure.

  13. Is anybody else having trouble commenting. I had to close the page and then come back. And it took me quite a while to think about doing that. Doh.

    • Yeah, well Article Six of the US Constitution forbids a religious test as a requirement for holding a governmental position. So, good luck enforcing that ban.

      • They cherry pick the Constitution like they cherry pick the bible and only pay attention to the parts they lik.

  14. Republican primary tomorrow. Eric Cantor has been robocalling all day.

    • I don’t even bother answering my dad’s phone. All he ever gets is calls from teabagger groups, Newt Gingrich, Heritage Foundation, and other wingnut groups. His junk mail is EPIC. :roll:

  15. Well, it had to happen. The last sane cast member from ‘Green Acres’ is gone. Rest in Peace, Sam.

  16. I guess I’ll have to wait until the sun goes behind the hill, since it’s too hot to sew on the sun porch.

    Not that I seem to be able to make a single damn decision about anything these days.

  17. Both Crooks and Liars and Think Progress have margin ads for Current TV today.

  18. Small Precautions traces the exponential loss of animal species to a time well before modern trade and industrialization:

    “[T]he processes we’ve become acutely conscious of over the past couple of decades and which usually gets labelled “climate change” didn’t actually begin with industrial revolution 250 years ago, but rather 40,000 years ago, when humans arrived in Australia, which began the process of mass mega-fauna extinction. This continued with the arrival of humans in the Americas, about 15K years ago, which also resulted in the loss of many of the continents’ large beasts. What’s happened since then forms a single continuous process of progressive human “commandeering” of the planet’s resources.”
    http://smallprecautions.blogspot.com/2012/06/periodizing-anthropocene.html

    http://grist.org/climate-energy/were-about-to-push-the-earth-over-the-brink-new-study-finds/
    Link summarized with this video:

  19. In a real shocker, the Commerce Secretary is taking a medical leave.

    (Kings up 4-1, 6 minutes left….)

    • Kings win!!! Good to see a team win it’s first Cup. One the toughest playoffs to win. And the Kings went on a streak just to get in the playoffs qualifying 8th (and last team in) in the west. Oh, and the coach used to be our (Calgary Flames) coach.

  20. Fuck republicans, especially elected ones. In all my years living under a two party political system, I’m in a disconnect that at one time both parties would come together to help our citizens in need, and the economy as a whole. Even Nixon, the second worse President after Chimp, pushed domestic policies that were, to a degree, progressive. How can an elected official today be part of a criminal enterprise to fleece the citizenry, and that be considered normal politics. Fuck um, and the elephant they rode in on. Fuck um.

  21. Look at this asshole:

    Tooth Fairy Denier ‏@FunkynFortunate

    @Zoocritter BTW Walter Hedeman choked on lies.

  22. I don’t know he’s a RWNJ troll I never saw before today and he started aggravating me and this came out of nowhere. I’ll have to ask Wayne how to handle him.

      • who and/or what are we talking about? Where’s the link? Who’s attacking Walt?

        • It seems Shayne is dealing with a whackjob on Twitter, and he said the rude thing about Walt. No link, I guess.

          Could be one of a gang of idiots who used to do drive-by attacks here years ago, but is probably just a run of the mill moron.

          • Fuck um, who cares what some obscure dickwad says on twitter? Time wasted I believe. Thanks for the clarification.

            • Not me. We know the truth, and Walt will never know. Some people certainly go to a lot of effort for stupid crap.

    • Shayne, I think he blocked you:

      Tooth Fairy Denier ‏@FunkynFortunate
      Ugh. ENOUGH! Had to block.
      Expand
      Reply Retweet Favorite
      1h Tooth Fairy Denier ‏@FunkynFortunate
      @Zoocritter <- The hate is strong with this one.
      View conversation
      Reply Retweet Favorite

        • Oh good. I had blocked him too. I don’t know how to post the link to Twitter. Wayne had told me but I forgot.

          • Sorry for the late response. You may still be able to retrieve the tweet if he hasn;t deleted it. Find the tweet in your Mentions list. Right-click on the time stamp in the upper right and select open in new tab. Go to the new tab and copy the URL into your comment here, hit enter at the end, and it should appear as a tweet when the comment posts.

            I can confirm the tweet itself was the vile output from a sick and twisted mind unworthy to be in Walt’s presence, not that I can claim I’m fit, either.

    • It was slow earlier in the afternoon, as well.

      I thought it was the heat here in the Bay Area.

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