The Watering Hole, Thursday, September 13th, 2012: From Pipeline News to Politics in the Pews

Back in August of 2011, I wrote a piece here about the controversial proposed Keystone XL pipeline, and its possible deleterious effect on various ecosystems and landowners in its path.

Yesterday’s Washington Post contains several updates and stories of what has been going on more recently regarding the pipeline, both good and bad, under the overall title “Keystone: Down The Line.” The WaPo article includes several separate pieces (all of the individual stories can be accessed from the main WaPo link), including: the most recent re-routing of the Nebraska section of the pipeline–which will STILL cross the Ogallala aquifer; an ‘eminent domain’ ruling in Texas; protesters in Livingston, Texas; various stories about local residents who would be affected by the Pipeline; and Mitt Romney’s support of the Pipeline. The Romney article clearly demonstrates Mitt’s ignorance about how the oil market works, and the blatant misinformation with which he would try to ‘sell’ it to American voters.

In other news, Catholics United (a ‘liberal’ group of Catholics who seem to be much closer to ‘true Christians’ than the Teavangelists and other faux-Christians), in conjunction with another group called “Faithful Americans”, is circulating a petition which you may be interested in signing. Apparently, “A parish priest in the Archdiocese of New York publicly endorsed Mitt Romney for President by including pro-Romney partisan literature in his Sunday bulletin.” Part of this literature included the line, “”We urge our fellow Catholics, and indeed all people of good will, to join with us in this full-hearted effort to elect Governor Mitt Romney as the next President of the United States.” The petition is to be delivered to New York’s Cardinal Timothy Dolan, president of the U.S. Conference of Catholic Bishops. While Cardinal Dolan “delivered the benediction at the Democratic and Republican conventions, he told reporters that he was there only to pray, not to endorse a candidate.” Cardinal Dolan needs to remind his parish priests that they are not allowed to endorse a candidate, and they are certainly not allowed to coerce their parishioners into voting for a particular candidate. The Separation of Church and State goes both ways: keep politics out of religion, and keep religion out of politics.

This is our open thread — what do you have to say for yourselves?

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193 thoughts on “The Watering Hole, Thursday, September 13th, 2012: From Pipeline News to Politics in the Pews

  1. On that parish priest urging voters to elect Mitt Romney, I have two things:

    1) That church should be immediately stripped of its tax-exempt status and made to beg and plead and prove it won’t happen again to get it back, and

    2) I thought the Catholics was dead set against the Ryan budget because it treated the poor so harshly, or was that just some small faction, like Catholics United?

    • It is quite possible to be againt the Ryan budget and in favor of Ryan. The budget, is, after, just a budget, a plan, that has yet to be enacted.

      The man, however, opposes contraception and abortion. Thjat’s something all Catholics support. Catholics, you know, don’t use contraception.

    • Wayne, I agree totally that we should be able to remove tax exemption status parish by parish, and not have it tied to an ‘organization’ like the Roman Catholic Church. As to the heterogenous views of the different Catholic Dioces’, you’ll find that conservative pastors are assigned in heavily Republican areas, as to maximize donations and connections to the community. No damn hippie priests in the upscale parishes.

      • I’m willing to let the RCC itself maintain its tax exempt status as long as this doesn’t become a widespread thing.

        So it’s not political partisanship (Republican or Democrat) that drives the Church’s activities, but political ideology (Conservative or Liberal). That’s all well and good, but eventually you run into the fundamental differences between Conservative and Liberal philosophies, and one Religion cannot accommodate both simultaneously.

  2. The church is puting its tax free status in jeopardy — or so it should be in jeopardy.
    Politicking from the pulpit — how can that be allowable under the current separation of church and state as well as being free from paying taxes.
    The church is schizophrenic these days — defending deviant priests, yet keeping their foot on the necks of women. Defending the poor, yet demanding that all potential pregnancies be carried to fruition by disallowing contraception.
    Don’t they know that contraception means fewer abortions.
    They long for the days when the church was the law of the land — forgetting that this nation was founded on opposite principles — not only freedom to worship, but freedom from worship.
    The church has lost its way — time for them to retreat.

    • “The church is puting its tax free status in jeopardy — or so it should be in jeopardy.”

      Are we going to take away the tax-exempt status of the entire Catholic Church based on the actions of a few individuals?

      Think about it.

      • Yes, without any equivocation. I would suggest a very simple formula. Any church that makes a profit, after paying for general upkeep and salaries, should be taxed. Any payments made for charity would, of course, be deductible. Churches benefit from public services and infrastructure as much as any other business.

        As for the Catholic church? Any entity that can laugh off a few-hundred-million dollars in hush money can damn well pay taxes.

  3. When I wake in a foul mood I should know better than to check out the news.

    It appears that the new consensus of the “librul media” is that said “librul media” is just being too hard on poor Mittens. Lets look at what he did. He scooped the lawful government of this country with a response to a crisis while said crisis is ongoing. He did it to score points in an election. He inflamed the crisis. He flat out lied about the actions of the lawful government of this country. And, given the opportunity to mitigate his own rash actions, he doubled down.

    These actions resulted in widespread condemnation from all quarters including prominent members of his own party and even a few high ranking elected officials (Well? We are told that they are high ranking but, since they chose to be cowards and make their comments anonymously, we will never know for sure.). And now? It’s the “librul media attacking poor Mittens”.

    It is not an “attack” to truthfully report what a political candidate has done and it is not fair and balanced to present both sides of an argument, without comment, if one side is wrong.

    • I saw a brief clip of that film. Even if it wasn’t about Mohamed but just about people of the Middle East it is highly insulting. It’s not smart to piss off people who are already unhappy. What do you think will happen if Romney wins the election because GOP won’t allow people to vote like in FL?

      • At the same time, you can post whatever you like on Youtube more or less. It’s not smart, but at the same time, its not illegal. I absolutely fail to understand a mentality that justifies murderous lawlessless as we are seeing here. Reading the Dail Mail comments on the further violence here’s one from Cairo repsonding to a ‘Paul':


        Dear Paul …. poor people realise how stupid they look ? what about u and educated people done to make them react like this to insult someone they love , respect and belive in ……………. i think you should talk also to educated people to stop making such a movie … if u told me they are free to do what they want ( film makers ) so poor people are free to react and do freely what they want
        – Mohamed Ahmed Morsi , cairo, Egypt, “

        Apparently they are free to riot, burn and kill.

        Ugly times…. I really can’t stand religion.

        • Desperate people have no other way to show they’re discontent. It’s wrong but they have nothing to lose.

          • The demographics in the Islamic world are not good. For the forseeable future there are a *lot* of young, underemployed, sexually and politically repressed young people with a religion that has regressed from a relatively moderate and enlightened Ottoman period into this very unstable and violent upheavel.

            When this kind of situation developed in Europe we either:
            1. Started a war with ourselves to skim off the extra testosterone
            2. Started a Crusade or an Age of Exploration to ship the aggro somewhere else
            3. Got really lucky and caught bubonic plague before we could hurt anyone else

      • BMM with Joe Klein further down answers the question…. Mitt will help bring back Baby Jesus by vitrifying parts of Iran.

    • The Libyan police were there and by accounts did what they could at risk to their own lives.

      • I don’t care if Starfleet Command was at the embassy. It’s a political gaffe, if nothing else, not to have marines guarding it.

    • The perception is true. Unfortunately this perception is shared only by right wing nutters in America. The perception of the rest of America and world is that the right wing nutters are fearmongering bedwetters.

    • Of particular interest was WillardRat’s use of the phrase “American Values”.
      When did America adopt the values of pissing on other religions. Outside of the usual RWNJs, that is.

    • “Fiona has the same glacial beauty of an iceberg, but unlike the iceberg she has absolutely nothing below the surface.”
      – Matilda

      “Don’t gobblefunk around with words.”
      – The BFG

      “I understand what you’re saying, and your comments are valuable, but I’m going to ignore your advice.”
      – Fantastic Mr Fox

  4. QsOTD (That-Was-Then-This-Is-Now Edition):

    “This is the time for us as a nation and a people to stand united,’ – Ronald Reagan, Republican candidate, after president Carter’s botched mission to save US hostages.

    “I unequivocally support the president of the United States — no ifs, ands or buts — and it certainly is not a time to try to go one-up politically. He made a difficult, courageous decision,” – George H.W. Bush, a candidate at the same time.

    And there are people who say the GOP hasn’t changed.

  5. Joe Klein rips Bibi a new one:

    “I don’t think I’ve ever, in the 40 years I’ve been doing this, have heard of another of an American ally trying to push us into war as blatantly and trying to influence an American election as blatantly as Bibi Netanyahu and the Likud party in Israel is doing right now. I think it’s absolutely outrageous and disgusting. It’s not a way that friends treat each other. And it is cynical and it is brazen. And by the way, a little bit of history here: In December of 2006, George W. Bush went over to the Pentagon, met with the joint chiefs of staff and asked them, “What do you think about military action in Iran?” They were unanimously opposed to it. And as far as I know, the United States military, the leaders of the United States military, are unanimously opposed to it to this day. This is a fool’s errand. It would be a ridiculous war with absolutely no good coming of it.

    Netanyahu is doing two things that should be intolerable for any patriotic American: he is a foreigner trying to influence our presidential campaign and he is a foreigner trying to shove us into a war of choice in a region where far too many Americans have already died needlessly. The Romney campaign–as well as AIPAC, the AJC and every other American Jewish organization–should make it clear to Netanyahu that his interventions into our political process and policy-making are not welcome here.”

    • Netanyahu has been disrespectful to President Obama since he took office. He’s a RWNJ just like the ones we have here.

  6. While I am heartened by the rational responses from the President and SoS I can’t help but shake my head at the immense irony of us condemning the violent reactions of the people in their own country for the hateful and idiotic actions of a small group of Americans while we still have troops in Afghanistan and Iraq, 11 years later.

    • If the election in November goes to Romney because of all the crap they’ve pulled to get poor people off the voter rolls I suspect there will rioting in the streets here.

        • Well the ID laws and other tricks have been more publicized this time. Poor people have been suffering longer and blame it on the fat cats. And the kids at my daughter’s school in Downtown Chicago are already talking about what might happen.

  7. Fuck Inhofe!

    Leave it to Jimbo to whine that he knew an ambassador was going to die when President Obama went on his “apology tour” to Cairo. He also boldly asserted that “four countries are attacking us”. I realize that Jimbo is stupider than the average kitchen appliance but even a tool like him should realize that our embassies are being attacked by people who are not representing their government. Come to think of it; he does know. He just wants to bathe in the blood and score points with people even stupider than he is.

    http://thehill.com/blogs/blog-briefing-room/news/249217-sen-inhofe-embassy-attacks-a-result-of-obamas-policy-of-appeasement

  8. There. Now I’ve got it out of my system. I went out for a couple flights with the older, foam, glider to try out some modifications and they work very well. Now I just need to find a competent camera operator to film my fantastic, low altitude, aerobatic displays.

  9. Dare we hope that Mittens has actually inspired the “librul media” to do their jobs? It seemed to start when the foreign media accurately reported that he’s an idiot the second they paid any attention to him. It seems like more than a few editors realized that they looked like fools for treating Mittens as a serious candidate instead of a dangerous repetition of Dubbya.

    When people like Peggy Noonen and Andrea Mitchell start calling GOoPers on their lies it makes my feel a lot better. It makes me think that they might, just might, think that the future of this country and the world is more important than protecting their access to the powerful and the hangers-on. It might even be more important than preserving the impression of a close race to keep the ad dollars flowing.

    http://videocafe.crooksandliars.com/heather/andrea-mitchell-calls-out-romney-adviser-w

  10. Why is Willard desperate?

    On Nate Silver’s model, if the election were held today, Romney would have an 8.4 percent chance of winning, compared with Obama’s 91.6 percent. Romney’s chances were 32.3 percent a week ago. That’s not a decline; it’s a free-fall.

  11. Romney’s bluster is a coward’s idea of how a brave man acts. It’s as if he was auditioning for a street gang and he’s trying to impress to be accepted into the group. In this case, the group is the GOP base.

  12. At Raw Story: Fox News’ Tamara Holder told Don Imus that Michelle Malkin ‘probably needs to get laid’! LOL!

  13. Btw, have you SEEN the “trailer” for “Innocence of Muslims”? IT’S F’ING HILARIOUS. I keep thinking when it’s over, Jon Lovitz is gonna come on and review it. One thing is certain: Muslims have a stunted sense of humor.

  14. Looks like the NHL is not going to start on time. Greedy owners vs greedy players. Not sure who I’m cheering for. I, for one, don’t go to games and I don’t buy jersey’s or any other merchandise. I do watch on TV – too much for the wife! The season, and the playoffs, are far too long anyway. I’ll cheer for a year off, yeah, that’s the ticket.

  15. Anyone else notice the steady climb of the markets? I’m sure the GOP hasn’t, or the main stream media. Probably setting up for a dive, but still, not far from the all time high in 2007.

  16. If the person who made this film is an American, as far as I’m concerned they’ve committed treason, and are guilty of murder of the embassy staff.

    In the current world situation, it’s not reasonable to think one can make a film like this, and there not to be a backlash. Certainly, it would be great if everyone would get over their “my God is better than your God” crap, but that’s not the world we live in.

    Sure, this could be dismissed as a free speech issue; but free speech should have to hide behind false names (as have apparently the producers of this film).

    Follow the money trail far enough, and I bet you end up at Rove or maybe even Romney’s neocon foreign policy adviser Dan Senor.

    • I agree, zxbe. The makers of this ridiculous film seem to have made it with the sole idea of provoking exactly the reaction happening in the ME right now. They didn’t care if anyone got hurt or killed, they just want to provoke religious extremists into “proving” Islam is BAD BAD BAD.

      And they probably claim to be “Christians.”

      • I think they knew there would be violence. They were counting on it. We must remember that these are “people” who want nothing more than the return of Jebus and the end of the world. What better way to bring the Holy Zombie back than a crusade?

    • Isn’t there some limitation to free speech that is the equivalent of yelling “FIRE” in the crowded theater? This certainly falls under that interpretation. Conspiracy to incite to riot or some other law must have been violated.

  17. Noah Shachtman reports that the man behind “Sam Bacile” is a serial fraudster:

    “He went by many names, the man who helped produce “The Innocence of Muslims,” the inflammatory video now roiling the Middle East: Matthew Nekola; Ahmed Hamdy; Amal Nada; Daniel K. Caresman; Kritbag Difrat; Sobhi Bushra; Robert Bacily; Nicola Bacily; Thomas J. Tanas; Erwin Salameh; Mark Basseley Youssef; Yousseff M. Basseley; Malid Ahlawi; even P.J. Tobacco.

    But his real name — the one he used when he was sent to prison for bank fraud — was Nakoula Basseley Nakoula. His habit of adopting other identities earned him a 21-month sentence in federal prison. During 2008 and 2009, court documents reviewed by Danger Room show (.pdf) that Nakoula again and again opened bank accounts with fake names and stolen social security numbers. Then Nakoula would deposit bogus checks into the new accounts and withdraw money before the checks bounced. The scheme worked for more than a year, until he was indicted in June of 2009. Eventually, he was ordered to stay off of the internet unless he got his probation officer’s permission, and pay a $794,700 fine.”

    http://www.wired.com/dangerroom/2012/09/anti-islam-flick/

    • It sounds very much like a career conman collected money from a bunch of hateful Christian extremists and then produced the film so they wouldn’t call the cops. It also sounds like those same Christian extremists were eager to resurrect the film after it had passed away without a whisper of attention. They just had to make sure that their hatred of Muslims was broadcast to the world.

      Again, I am forced to conclude that the sick freaks saw this as an opportunity to promote a new crusade.

    • Libyans died trying to protect our Ambassador. Calling was a gracious gesture and I’m sure the condolences were mutual.
      No serious people take this appeasement bullshit seriously.

      • Unfortunately, there is still a sizable portion of the American body politic who are not “serious” about anything but hating others. The good news is that Mittens has alienated all but a fringe and some of that fringe are not likely to vote for a Mormon. He might even manage to break the unholy union between the neocons and the truly unhinged fundamentalists. If he manages that trick I might have to send him a “thank you” note.

  18. Jeebus, I didn’t think the smoke could get much worse here, but today it’s worst I’ve seen yet. I am choking here, and I wonder how many people with respiratory problems are being admitted to hospitals.

    I also wonder what my lungs look like after a month of this.

    • Are the fires that bad? I noticed that the Rockies were covered in a haze when we were in Montana and I needed to buy chapstick because my lips were parched. Stay away from the fires.

  19. Americans have this need to kill more godless dark skinned people…..well…except for us dark skinned Americans….hehehe…I mean they wouldn’t really want to harm me just because my skin was black and i’m atheist would they?…..I mean seriously they wouldn’t, would they?…..um…..you know, i’m black and godless, but they tell me at all the parties they’re not racially biased. besides, they have a cousin married to a black guy…..so they couldn’t possibly be a racist bigot….and how did we ever get into a discussion about race anyway? you know we just need to keep to ourselves and trust the republican party to take care of all of us…

    • you know we just need to keep to ourselves and trust the republican party to take care of all of us…

      I’m with you there, fatherbob – all the way///

    • I’m sure they’re not all racists. Some are perfectly willing to harm all liberals, regardless of skin color.

      • You got that right. It would be really interesting to see if their misogyny would have fed as much rabid abuse as their racism had Hillary been elected. My guess is that it would be pretty much the same level of hysteria but Hillary would have gotten mad and retaliated. Then the “questions” about menopause would rise to the level of the “Marxist/Muslim/Kenyan/Socialist” stuff.

    • Father Bob, I hate to tell you this but a friend of mine just told me that he knows people that will never vote for a black man regardless of policies. In other words, they would rather pluck out their eyes than vote for a black man. Yet, they claim that they are not racist. Go figure.

    • I hope he realizes he can’t just fire anyone who tells him something that he doesn’t like.

    • I can’t wait for him to jump up on stage and brag about how cool it is that he’s now got more intelligence, and some of his good friends own NASCAR teams and trick ponies.

  20. Btw, Mitt continued his foreign scorched earth policy by attacking China today.

    How’d ya like Mitt answering 3am phone calls?

  21. Going *all* the way back to Jane’s original subject….. with Keystone XL …. Romney doesn’t care to know about the oil markets, its not important – his position has been handed to him by the people most likely to benefit from the pipeline, shipping shitty Canadian crude to Houston to be refined and exported…. the Kochsuckers and their other pals invested in the tar sands…

    In the Keystone pipeline ‘debate’ the American public have about the same rights and say as the Nigerians in the Niger delta, Columbians and Ecuadorians in the Amazon forest…. etc etc.

  22. What’s up with Bob Woodward — beside his politics?

    I just saw him on Hardball, and he was talking slowly and quite deliberately. He had trouble saying “Republican” and other multi-syllable words. I can’t decide if he had a stroke, is a heavy drinker, or has Parkinsons.

  23. Meanwhile the *underreported * story of the week continues to be the 7 other PDBs that Chimpy ignored before 9-11….. *yawn* goes the so-called-librul-media

    • If it weren’t for the ‘Sam Bacile’ crisis, Willard Mitt Romney could’ve spent the day explaining why he’s giving support to Vladimir Putin:

      ABC News says Vladimir Putin has thanked Mitt Romney for calling Russia the United States’ #1 geopolitical foe, because it has “strengthened his resolve to oppose NATO’s plan for a missile defense shield in Eastern Europe.”…

      Whadda maroon.

      • Mitt Romney is a threat to world peace. What a disaster. Romney has no cred and is an ignorant ass when it comes to diplomacy. He shouldn’t be anywhere near the nuke button.

  24. Last week, Canada closed it’s Iranian Embassy and kicked the Iranian Ambassador and diplomats out of the country.

    Our immigration minister Jason Kenney:

    There is licit listening, there is diplomatic listening and then there is national security violations. And there is harassment, and intimidation and monitoring of our own community by forces of a dictatorship.

    From the link: “.. didn’t rule out the possibility of listing Iran’s Revolutionary Guard as a terrorist entity.”

    Public Safety Minister Vic Toews:

    We will examine groups, as you indicate the Iranian Revolutionary Guard, to determine whether they meet the qualifications of the definition. We look at this every two years and at this point I’m not prepared to say what we’re going to do publicly,

    So it seems that we pulled out of Iran ahead of saying that the Iranian Revolutionary Guard is a terrorist organization.

    Very curious.

  25. There’s something you don’t see very often. Juan Cole being interviewed on TYT about problems in the Middle East. It’s not like he’s a bloody expert or anything. Sheesh!

  26. The wrong Mormon was nominated:

    “This is a time when we all should reflect on those who continue to give, even the last measure, of service and sacrifice, to promoting and defending America’s interests abroad,” Huntsman added. “This is above all a reminder that politics should end at the water’s edge.”

  27. The outrage from Willard reminds me of a saying from years gone by. “It’s real easy to talk smart from the cheap seats.”

  28. The most recent polls indicate that Obama is up by 7 points. If Obama was ALL white, I would be willing to bet that he would be leading unpatriotic Romney by double digits.

    • Well let’s see… in Egypt’s case since the US sold the Egyptian army the riot gear…

  29. America is an interesting politic mix these days. We have 25% Tea Baggers, 25% Unicorn Democrats and 50% who just shake their heads and wonder about the other 50%

  30. A day with a really lousy start is ending up pretty good. Good flying this morning. Good flying this evening. A little nip of fall (my favorite season) in the air. Good food. Good friends. Good beer. Life is still pretty good despite all the bullshit and freaks trying to end civilization as we know it. But…?

    I am coming to the conclusion that Mittens is every bit as stupid as Bible Spice. It’s hard to tell because he can, at least, speak a recognizable human language but he has that same knack for charging ahead no matter what feedback he’s getting. He keeps doubling down on stuff that he should know is a no win just to prove that he’s crazier than the craziest person in whatever crowd he’s addressing. I should add that I think Batscat Bachmann is smarter than Bible Spice but she’s a whole lot crazier if not meaner.

    I keep expecting Mittens to have his “I don’t think Obama is a Muslim” moment but it never comes because the freaks turned on McCain when he “told off” the little old teabagger. He has lost virtually everyone who doesn’t work for FAUX”News” and that is something I didn’t think would happen.

    • I was privy to an international law seminar where this right to make hateful speech was debated. In Europe, some speech, such as denying the Holocaust, is considered so hurtful that it is banned. American law students acknowledged the hurtful content, but pointed out that by allowing said speech, at least you could know who the people are that hold those beliefs. That, in turn allows the State, and private citizens, for that matter, to keep a watchful eye out for when speech turns to criminal action.

      The question then becomes, in retrospect, is speech an action? Yes. As such, perhaps it is time to think about a further restriction on the 1st Amendment right of freedom of speech. Were the U.S. to outlaw holocaust denial, for example, that would not be outlawing political speech. The same could be said of outlawing speech that denigrate religions, or athiests. Is there some speech that by its very content should be outlawed, in the same manner that we ban falsly crying “fire” in a crowded theater? When the logical and natural outcome from certain speech is injury or death, should we consider limiting that “freedom of speech”?

      I must admit, I am re-thinking my earlier position…

      • BnF,

        Thank you for the cogent and insightful analysis, and one from a person whose views I respect and whose learning I cannot come near. I have no legal training myself, and I can only speak from a sense of what I feel ought to be right, and not necessarily from a knowledge of what is actually right.

        I heard it said once, “Basically, in European Law, everything is illegal unless there’s a law saying it’s legal, while in American law, everything is legal unless there is a law saying it’s illegal.” From stories I’ve heard about European Free Speech rights, and others, that sounds about right. So I understand how they could ban publicly denying the Holocaust, but I am not entirely sure I agree with where they draw the line between thought expression and an action that could cause actual physical harm.

        IMHO, it’s a slippery slope when you start drawing the line, in this country, of course, at what is considered Constitutionally Protected Speech and speech that might hurt someone’s feelings. People have different levels of personal offense about things, and the only way to avoid hurting anyone’s feelings is to keep one’s mouth shut. Which contradicts the point of having the Right to Free Speech.

        As to the speech versus action discussion, could it not be argued that the content of the speech itself is constitutionally protected, but the action is in the publication of said speech, and can be regulated. Should it be legal to call someone up at 3 AM to try to sell them ownership in a time share in Boca Raton, FL? The content itself, if genuine and not an attempt to defraud, is perfectly legal and constitutionally protected, but the way in which it was published, the action, clearly isn’t. So the manner in which free speech is exercised can and has been regulated to at least some small degree. There are other publication techniques you are not free to use in selling your goddamn time share in Boca Raton, Fl, for which I have no goddamn interest in buying!……(inhale, exhale slowly)……But I digress.

        I admit that I have never read Justice Holmes’ rationale, if any, for declaring that yelling “Fire!” in a crowded theater is not protected speech. Was it simply the basis of “causing harm” (with no modifiers to clarify the extent of the interpretation), or causing action in others that could lead to harm (such as inciting riot), or what? To what degree do you soberly and judiciously limit what a person is allowed to say in public when human reflexive emotion is involved? And do you argue that the Framers of the Constitution understood human emotion to such a sophisticated degree that the exceptions they could “expertly” have been thinking about involved such details? Or would they simply saying it would be Constitutionally protected speech to say “Mr. President, thy intimate familiarity with the male genitalia is unsurpassed!” to the president, and not be thrown in jail just for that? (Though if you go up to his face and bump him in the chest, your actions, I’m sure, would be regulated.)

        I have to go now. :)

      • Many wise people have said “free speech is a two-edged sword”. And I say a knife can be a tool or a weapon. I don’t think any single person is wise enough to decide in all cases and that’s why there are nine justices, like them or not, on the Supreme Court and those nine, like them or not, can not gainsay the other 7 billion people on the planet. All that being said…

        I am extremely proud of the Obama Administration and how they are dealing with this bizarre crisis. I wish that I could figure out exactly what is being said in this weird movie that has spawned such anger but I neither read nor speak any Semitic language and every time someone posts a clip it gets blocked before I can watch it.

        • According to an actress hired to make the movie, the entire cast was told that it was a movie about the life of a generic Arab man 2,000 years ago (not centuries later, when Islam was started.) When they saw the film trailers (the only part released so far), she found that some of her lines had been changed and overdubbed. When she asked another actor, “And is your God not a child molester?”, it was overdubbed to “And is your Mohammad not a child molester?” Other such anti-Islam lines were likewise overdubbed. The actors collectively (as near as i can tell) disavow the use of their work in this manner.

          There is some confusion about who is funding or making this alleged movie. Again, no evidence exists that an entire film of any kind was made, simply the film trailers for one that supposedly exists, though it may not. When Mel Brooks made “History of the World, Part I”, he said he called it “Part I” just so he could add the trailer for “Part II”, which included the short sequence “Jews in Space”. (Which was hilarious, BTW.) No “Part II” film was ever made.

          There have been various denials about the people behind the trailer. One person supposedly in the know said that Terry Jones, among others, was not behind it. There’s probably more about this than has been reported so far, as people are actively trying to cloud what happened. A version was also released with overdubbed Arabic language, and most likely was even more offensive to the Muslims. But by our American standards of free speech, they have every RIGHT to make such filth, but what they do with it may be another discussion. (see above.)

      • I’m not able to offer much insightful comment on this. I would hope that fact-based speech, where the actual reporting of truth might incite the populace to riot, would be protected to a greater degree then the “just making hateful shit up” variety.

  31. Mitt Romney, kicking his own ass.

    So when news came about the breaching of the security wall around our embassy in Egypt and the terrible killing of our ambassador to Libya and three other Americans in Benghazi, I’ll bet you had the same thought I did: “If only we had a well-traveled businessman in the White House! If only we had a guy who speaks French! If only we had a guy who could use his deep understanding of the 2002 Salt Lake City Winter Olympics and apply those lessons to Libya and Egypt, then I would feel safer tonight!”

    • This is not happening…
      this is not happening…
      Mittens is really divorced from reality.

      He’s so damn egotistical. I demand he have an EEG…there is nothing there, I do swear.

    • He said that? Too fucking crazy. Mitt Romney is the talking cardboard Republican candidate for president. Romney is no diplomat. He only knows how to make money while firing people. Governing the US is not about making money.

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