The Watering Hole: May 26 – Dunkerque

On this date in 1940 the British started to remove their forces from the European contentment. German naval forces did not know how to respond to the civilian response in evacuating the British armed forces. In the end, they did very little, letting an army to escape for another day.

This marked a retreat that was not answered  until slightly more than 4 years later. What was remarkable about Dunkirk (Brit spelling) and D-Day was that the Allied plan was to initiate D-Day exactly four years after the retreat of British forces from Europe.  The schedule was only altered by the fortunes of weather at that time.

This is our open thread. Please feel free to offer your own comments on this or any other topic.


138 thoughts on “The Watering Hole: May 26 – Dunkerque

  1. It doesn’t matter to Quitter and it won’t matter to the Teabagots, because they can’t put pieces together. Palin will blame the media for picking on the guy and the nutters will eat it up.

  2. A couple of stories about the spill.
    Civil Fine In Gulf Spill Could Be $4,300 Barrel

    Just how many barrels of oil are gushing into the Gulf of Mexico from the Deepwater Horizon spill is a billion dollar question with implications that go beyond the environment. It could also help determine how much BP (BP.L) and others end up paying for the disaster.

    A clause buried deep in the U.S. Clean Water Act may expose BP and others to civil fines that aren’t limited to any finite cap — unlike a $75 million limit on compensation for economic damages. The Act allows the government to seek civil penalties in court for every drop of oil that spills into U.S. navigable waters, including the area of BP’s leaking well.

    Hopefully, the US Government can use this law to extract an adequate amount of money from BP to compensate for this spill.

    Bad Cement Jobs Plague Offshore Rigs

    The tricky process of sealing an offshore oil well with cement — suspected as a major contributor to the Gulf of Mexico disaster — has failed dozens of times in the past, according to an Associated Press investigation.
    Yet federal regulators give drillers a free hand in this crucial safety step — another example of lax regulation leading up to the April 20 explosion on the Deepwater Horizon oil rig.

    Federal regulators don’t regulate what type of cement is used, leaving it up to oil and gas companies. The drillers are urged to simply follow guidelines of the American Petroleum Institute, an industry trade group.

    Halliburton was completing the final cement work on the exploratory well beneath Deepwater Horizon in the wee hours of April 20. It added an initial cement plug to the well to act as a cap until a later production phase.

    Workers started running a series of tests to check if the cement and casing could stand up to sufficient pressure. The first tests of outward, positive pressure showed no problems.

    In the first sign of trouble, though, the well then failed a negative pressure test, where internal fluid pressure is reduced, according to congressional testimony from a BP PLC executive. It showed different pressures in two areas, indicating an unseen leak somewhere in the well.

    Despite the test, managers eventually decided to replace drilling fluid with seawater and set a final cement plug so the well could be mothballed pending a decision to possibly begin production drilling. (my italics)

    And while it is not yet clear what sections of the casing or cement may have failed — or why — it is known that the blowout ignited and exploded before the last plug was set.

    I’m somewhat confused by the term ‘production drilling’. I was under the impression that drilling was over, and they had reached the oil. I thought the Blowout Preventer was what held the pressure until BP was ready to tap the well for production. I don’t think the news watching public really understands the sequence of events of drilling an underwater well. I don’t think I do yet. Any help?

  3. I guess until somebody edits my comment, we’ll all be talking italican all day, unless…

    I can fix it from here.

  4. BP, Halliburton and TransOcean should all get the corporate death penalty.

    Boycott Arco and all BP outlets and subsidiaries!

  5. RUCerious,

    Thom Hartmann said that when three guys are in a car, and one robbed the liquor store, and all three say the other guy did it, they all go to jail.

    That should be the legal precedent set here, that regardless of which company actually caused the problem, all are considered accomplices if they didn’t blow the whistle on the guilty party.

  6. HoR, My money is on Halliburton cutting corners with their cementing job, and TransOcean and BP, nodding in tacit approval, wink, wink…Gotta save a buck, and that drilling thingy is expensive@

  7. I think it was actually a combination of several unrelated failures, from faulty equipment, to maybe a bad cementing job, to cutting corners on procedure. All things they had gotten away with before, singly, but all added together on the same job, resulted in disaster. Everybody said “Oh, we’ve always skipped that step,” but too many skipped tests missed the warning signs. I don’t think people stood there and lit the fuse on a bomb and watched it burn.

    • Who were the guys who came in hours before the explosion who were supposed to do the inspection, but instead they put them back on the plane and sent them back without doing that inspection?

      And didn’t Halliburton also do a shoddy job on the cementing on that Australian rig that also exploded and leaked out oil in 2009 (I think that was the date..)?

      A cementing job done by Halliburton is also implicated in an Australian oil rig disaster last year that gushed oil into the Timor Sea for 74 days.

  8. There was a piece on MMS on All Things Considered last night, and it’s not a pretty picture. “Inspectors” negotiating employment with oil firms while “inspecting” their platforms, inspectors allowing the companies to fill out their own forms, inspectors getting sex and drugs from oil companies–not a pretty picture. Of course, it’s all Obama’s fault, even though the IG’s report goes back at least to 2005.

  9. Looks like Palin is failin at pretty much everything but lining her pockets with the money she grifts out of her adoring audiences…

    It was nice to see Vaughn Ward get defeated. One for the fact it’s a poke in the eye of Palin’s endorsement power.

    But the other reason was that blatant stealing of Obama’s speech. Bill Press played clips of the original Obama speech and Ward’s version, and it was pretty obvious.

    • I looks like BP ignored the signs that something was going wrong — even though they knew they were capping that well incorrectly.

  10. Tilting the monitor, that’s funny. Is anybody else unable to post comment at TP today? I see the trolls aren’t having any problems but my comments just disappear.

    • Dumbo Palin has a Dumbo kid. What a surprise. She has no idea that she has a life very few teen mothers will ever be able to dream about.

  11. Now the fishermen helping with the cleanup are getting sick. I hope they don’t expect BP to pay for their health care costs. They’ll be dead long before they ever get reimbursed.

  12. Good posts all…Just flying over for a moment…In the BP mess think the term might be “acting in concert”..That referes to criminals who work together to commit a crime…Hope the Gov. will handle it that way but I have my doubts….Blessings all…

  13. It is that inability to see that they are given special treatment that allows them to be selfish bastard rethugs. I just hope karma gets them eventually.

  14. The trolls who post their crap day after day have no problem but my comments are going to moderation at TP. WTF.

    • I’m still trying to find that clip. I am pretty sure it was from the Rachel Maddow Show where she talked about some group of inspectors that showed up hours before the explosion and were sent away without doing any inspecting. I’m putting that together with BP taking that shortcut of replacing heavy drilling fluid with saltwater in the well that blew out in order to speed things up saving time and money. Wish I could find that clip. I haven’t seen anything more about that claim in the press.

  15. HoR – the well was being mothballed so that when they were ready to produce out of the reservoir they would come back with a production rig and finish the ‘well completion’ , by perforating the concrete and setting up the zone between the well bore and the reservoir so that oil would flow into the well bore.

    Looking back at other questions here…

  16. So Bristol is passing herself off as a single-mom who gets by on a hygienists salary? Funny, my hygienist doesn’t get $30K a pop for speaking engagements.

  17. The trolls who post their crap day after day have no problem but my comments are going to moderation at TP. WTF.

    What did you do?

    Seriously though, it seems as though TP turns a blind eye to some of the trolls there.

  18. Shayne, is there a new word that the filters might be rejecting?
    dirtcheap and fake ‘dr’ are at full tilt today.

  19. Additional on the completion and perforating:

    Muse, I think that you are talking about Schlumberger. They were the ‘wireline loggers’ on the DWH.

    They could have conducted a test called a ‘Cement Bond Log’ on the well before they decided to cap the well with the plug.

    The fact that the Schlumberger team was sent home early on the day of the blast and that supposedly (need to confirm) the BP guy on the rig chose not to do the CBL could be a real piece of negligence here. Especially as the negative pressure test that is suppsed to prove that the concrete will hold back the oil came back . apparently faulty .

    I think a manslaughter charge and Miranda rights might be an appropriate step – maybe I’m over reacting. But frankly a special prosecutor and an investigation now with suppoenas for all. 11 people died and something smells bad.

  20. Muse the filling with seawater at the end of the stage is actually a standard step. The problem was they didn’t ensure the integrity of the concrete before they jumped to that step.

  21. RU,

    I’m still in the camp that Halliburton is the least blameworthy of the three at this point. They might have done a poor job of the cementing, but (a) it was BP’s design (b) if it was poor, then Transocean and BP should have tested it *and* logged it and as it turned out asked Halliburton to do it again.

    Seems that BP was calling the shots and since they were paying $1m a day, somebody made a budget call. Question I don’t know is whether a federal law was broken in doing so, or if what happened afterwards constitutes grounds for criminal negligence /manslaughter. I’m no lawyer, but I know a safety shortcut when I see one.

  22. Thanks Terry,

    My ‘Offshore Oil Drilling for Dummies’ article kind of stops at the point where all the trouble takes place. Production drilling and perforation don’t sound like the same thing, but production drilling might be a method of ‘stimulating’, going deeper to access more oil, perhaps.

  23. Yes, it looks like the completions process is stopped halfway in this case, the decision on where and how to finish the point of contact with the reservoir is one that usually needs the reservoir engineers to study the geology that was pulled out of the well during the work that was being done in April.

  24. I say they’re all guilty as hell. BP and that asshole chairman are just the most guilty.

  25. I notice instead of MSNBC discussing this they’re focused on undocumented workers. And when they do discuss the spill it’s about how Obama hasn’t stopped it.

  26. Muse, the angle where SLB *asks* to be taken off the rig is a new twist to the tale. I do think they went off by boat and not helo though.

    We do know that SLB did leave the rig on the morning of the blast around 11am or just after. What they said or opined about the state of the well will only come out under oath. Its common, I understand, to have a team like that on hand until they think that they are wrapping up and have no more need for them. There is a big rush to get off the rig on that last day, people have worked hard and are very tired by then.

    Shayne, I don’t think so. But BP and Transocean have some real issues. The design of the cement work, the decisions to ignore/assume, a pressure test, the state of maintenance of the BOP. Halliburton seem to have done what they were asked to do, I have an source which indicates that Halliburton told BP/Transocean they thought there was a problem but were told to stand down.

    Suppoenas for everyone, handcuffs for some. let’s get it on.

    “Obama hasn’t stopped it?” Paging Tony ‘Minor impact’ Hayward. Get in there you c***, your shareholders are calling you out.

  27. Top Kill Procedure Is Under Way

    BP said in a news release Wednesday that the “top kill” maneuver has started. The top kill has never before been tried a mile beneath the sea, and company officials say it could be a couple of days before they know whether it is working.

    • Do you have to have something special on your computer to see it..? It just has a blank screen with BP logo at the top on my computer.

      • Ok, this is why DADT shouldn’t be repealed:

        Hitler discovered that he could not get straight soldiers to be savage and brutal and vicious enough to carry out his orders, but that homosexual solders basically had no limits and the savagery and brutality they were willing to inflict on whomever Hitler sent them after.

        This asshole spends way too much time fantasizing about Hitlers brutal brownshirts holding him down and having their way with him. 🙄

        • Well Zooey, if that is the real reason, then you’d think Cheney would have been recruiting Gays like crazy.. You’d think..

  28. Muse that could be the cloud of oil in front of the camera….. 😦

  29. muse, that link I posted is working at this moment.

    Although it does have the caveat:

    “Please be aware, this is a live stream and may freeze or be unavailable from time to time.”

    • This is TOTALLY off topic here, but I’m putting up this video. I have not watched a single episode of American Idol in over three years (maybe longer..). I just watched this video of the final song performed by Crystal Bowersox on the final night of this season’s competition. She accompanied herself on the guitar and sang a song called “Up To The Mountain”. Raw and amazing..

  30. Say what?! Was this before or after the Nazi regime made Gays wear the Pink Triangle?

  31. I have live video on the link and 2ebb’s link.

    They’re not showing the leak, just some equipment the ROV is monitoring.

  32. nwmuse, I agree about Crystal’s performance. I happened to catch it last night, and I thought it was fantastic.

  33. Muse, Does it tell you what plug-in you need?

    I’m on a Mac (& use Safari).

    House, I’ll try downloading that and see what happens.

    • It doesn’t tell me, it just has nothing on the screen. I’m using Safari as well. It’s a new computer too..

  34. Cue the cartoon where countless oil executives and GOP apologists are being injected into the well as the ‘junk shot’.

    Wonder if that’s where the BP poo-bah on the rig that day is ending up. Jimmy Hoffa is under Giant’s stadium after all.

  35. Hayward was on something this morning, why isn’t he in jail?

    I’m guessing the same reason Bush and Cheney aren’t in jail. But they all deserve to be. 😦

  36. 2ebbandflow, apparently my name is blocked. Somebody probably namejacked me and got me blocked or something because I haven’t been around much. Everything I type disappears and I go to the top of the page.

    • I have the live feed now. I had to download the latest version of “Flip4Mac” at Mactopia. Good to go now.

  37. Shayne, that sucks. Thought I saw a few of your posts this morning – I’ll go look.
    Were you able to post and then not?

    muse, glad you are good to go~even though the live feed, as house has opined, is not much at this point.

  38. Shayne, was this you this morning on the BP – Fisherman thread:

    Shayne of the Living Dead aka Zombie says:
    I hope those fishermen don’t expect BP to pay for their health care costs as they fall ill. They’ll be suing them for 20 years or dying before they ever get reimbursed.

    May 26th, 2010 at 11:46 am

    • Is anyone else watching Dylan Ratigan? Interesting. Two oil guys discussing what BP did and is doing, and what they should have done and should be doing. Really interesting.

      I’ll try and find the video and put it up.

  39. Alabama Has a “Waiting Week” in the middle of your Unemployment Benefits.

    A Waiting Week was implemented by legislation enacted for new claims filed on or after July 6, 2008. It is an unpaid period following the 13th compensable week of Unemployment Compensation payments. Therefore, no benefits for the 14th payable week of benefits will be issued even though a certification is required for that period. However, you may be paid your full maximum benefit amount should you remain unemployed and continue to claim subsequent weeks and meet all eligibility requirements.

    I thought I was out of benefits, and I went in to the local Career Center to ask how I transition to the Federal extension. It turns out, I had one week left, because of a little known part of Alabama Unemployment Law called a Waiting Week. Formerly, the waiting week was the week after you lost your job, but now that claims are handled on-line, that week is now a compensated week. I didn’t even know the money wasn’t there, because I had direct deposit. Fortunately, I wasn’t running that close in my account, and only just now realized I missed a benefit that week!

    What the greedy bastards in Montgomery decided to do, just as the economy started to implode in 2008, was to put an uncompensated week after the thirteenth paid week of benefits.

    The math goes like this:
    The maximum benefit here in Alabama is $265, plus the Stimulus Plan added $25 for a weekly benefit of $290. If you find work inside of thirteen weeks, you collect an average of $290 for all the weeks for which you filed.

    However, if you remain unemployed past the thirteenth week, you are penalized for remaining on the dole. After the fourteenth week, your average benefit is $269.28 per week. If you run out the full 27 weeks, the average goes up somewhat to $279.26. Most people don’t even realize their fourteenth week is uncompensated, until they don’t get the money. I wonder what other states screw their unemployed as much as Alabama does?

  40. house, what a screwy thing. How much longer do you have for unemployment?

  41. However long the Federal extensions are good for. They are up to 99 weeks right now. I’ve only done the first 27.

  42. 2ebbandflow, nothing would show up so I emailed Faiz directly. He must have taken a couple out of moderation but he didn’t fix the problem and he doesn’t seem to be around. It will get fixed eventually. I just had more time today because I’ve had this headache and didn’t feel like doing much else. Now it’s raining so my head will feel better.

  43. HoR,
    Have you considered moving to NYC and going on welfare? It pays better and if you are an unwed parent, you can rake in child care as well. Kidnap a kid and go for it.
    I am only kidding. The Puritan work ethic is being buried by the GOP.
    Seriously, I thought that you were a mechanic. That is one job that cannot be shipped overseas.

  44. I think he quit fixing cars years ago. We have the garage and business has picked up lately but the last couple of years we’ve been just getting by, barely, with debt. And because we’re a suburb of Chicago usually there are jobs but lots of people have been broke.

  45. Walt,

    I gave up the full-time auto technician/owner gig in 1998, and went back to machine work. I am looking at a couple of shops that don’t have insurance, since I can run out my Cobra, and they may extend that too. They are out near my building where my cars and parts are right now.

    I’m not even eligible for food stamps. Too much in assets. It’s the assets that keep me here. You have to be pretty far down in Alabama to get much other than unemployment.

  46. Shayne,
    Actually, I made close to a grand per month fixing small engines and outboards in Dallas. as a teen. I charged 5 bucks for the 4 cycle engines and 7 for the doubler bangers. The difference covered the reed valves. and/or plates.
    During the winter, I would repair outboards for 30 cents per horsepower plus parts.

  47. I’m off, probably for the rest of the night. Gotta go present the scholarships from my Mom’s education foundation.

    Now that has to be a really good feeling! Tell us about the smiles on all their faces, please!

  48. Zxbe,
    It says in your link, a “skirmish” between a BP official and rig workers who did not want to replace heavy drilling fluid in the well with saltwater.
    The switch presumably would have allowed the company to remove the fluid and use it for another project, but the seawater would have provided less weight to counteract the surging pressure from the ocean depths.

    That was a missing piece of the puzzle for me, why they wanted to use the seawater. A link I read earlier, said that the drilling fluid is filtered and reused, so I was wondering why they wouldn’t use the fluid instead of seawater. Had they been required to always use fresh fluid, I could have expected them to go cheap, and try to do without it. They were simply in too big a hurry, to leave the drilling fluid with the job, until it was not needed. That’s simply indefensible, and criminally negligent.

  49. I can remember watching Linkletter before I was old enough to go to school.

  50. The entire picture may not emerge for years.

    TtT had a post that stated the guys who got off the rig before it collapsed were corralled on the boat, for I think nearly 48 hrs – incommunicado, drug tested and possibly made to sign a ‘we will not tell or sue’ letter. While the ‘big-wigs’ were allowed to have cell phones and not be drug tested.

    I’ll try to look for it later –

  51. Shayne, I’m with you – thought Art was long gone from this mortal coil.

    I can remember watching Linkletter before I was old enough to go to school.

    house are you that young? (ducking and running).

  52. Rachel is amazing right now “That was then, this was then” about the similarities between this Gulf Spill and the Gulf Spill 31 years ago … I’ll try to put up the link.

  53. I had to pick up my daughter and missed that old video.

    I would have thought that if Art was still alive we would have heard more about him in recent years. They didn’t show him much respect.

  54. Indeed it will be a while before we know the entire situation here, if ever. Corporations are very good at hiding things. However, at some point BP will offer up some individuals to take the fall to help absolve the corporation of some of its culpability.

    I believe what’s going to emerge is typical corporate greed, cheapness, bureaucracy, and a structure that completely dis-empowers underlings to ever make critical decisions. Independent thinking if often discouraged if not punished outright. Threat of dismissal in a tight labor market – which the corporations ultimately control – is a powerful motivator.

  55. CA Woman Killed By Police After Confronting Census Worker With Gun

    Sad story, but it had to happen, sooner or later. They are now going out to homes that didn’t send in a census form voluntarily.

    This is how admin should handle a troll:

    First comment:
    Whoa New
    Wed, 05/26/2010 – 16:56 — virtue
    It’s hard to fathom that some of you are missing the fact that someone carrying a gun was trespassing on these people and their home. It would be so fucking nice if people would get morally consistent.

    The problem was the census worker was neither trespassing nor carrying a gun.

    Second comment:
    [Comment Deleted] New
    Wed, 05/26/2010 – 17:00 — virtue
    [Comment Deleted By Administration For Violation Of Terms Of Service]

    Third comment:
    and New
    Wed, 05/26/2010 – 17:03 — virtue
    [I was just thinking: “Give me a reason,” and you did. Thank you-Sitemonitor]

    Fourth comment:
    [Comment Deleted] New
    Wed, 05/26/2010 – 17:03 — virtue
    [Comment Deleted By Administration For Violation Of Terms Of Service]

    Fifth comment
    [Comment Deleted] New
    Wed, 05/26/2010 – 17:04 — virtue
    [Comment Deleted By Administration For Violation Of Terms Of Service]

    If we got that kind of monitoring at TP, it would be a more pleasant place to be, maybe less traffic, but nicer. Like here.

  56. I don’t know house they had no trouble booting me out of there for no apparent reason.

  57. Better they killed the gun wielding woman than the census worker got shot.

  58. Shane,
    Your situation is surely unrelated to your comments violating terms of service. Or did I miss a particularly heated troll-smacking?

    Quite a discussion at C&L on that thread. I just now caught up with it all.

      • I’m looking at the oil gusher on Keith. It looks like there are three fissures. Is that different, or a different angle?

        Where is Obama on this?

  59. This is not me!

    Two of us in the same state with the same name is spooky though. I was watching the oil gusher, and my eyes wandered over to other stories on the right side of the page, and I see my name on one of them!

    I look a little like that, if I shave my beard and cut my hair.

    • Jeebus, is that guy on steroids or what?

      His head looks tiny! You know what else has gone tiny as well. 😉

      Of course that’s not you, House! You’re smart and stuff!

  60. I have a yellow looking plume on the left, and two brown plumes in the middle. To the right in the shadow is a wispy plume that was easier to see when it was daylight. If that brown stuff is drilling fluid, this is getting expensive, but maybe they can inject the cement below the fluid, and hold it down long enough for it to set well.

    • I hope BP, Transocean, and Halliburton are forced to spend every dime they have to make this mess right. If that’s even possible.

  61. zxbe “I had tilted it to make all the italics come out straight”

    I never knew italics were gay!


  62. Rig workers in Gulf oil spill were told to sign statements, ‘or they can’t go home,’ attorney says

    Sounds like typical corporate BS. Although, under the circumstances, it clearly sounds to me like they were forced to sign under duress. If one of them hadn’t signed, the company would the company have left them stranded?

  63. lass, that was a serendipitous ride through the interwebs.

    Minerals Management Service head Birnbaum resigns under pressure

  64. This kind of slipped through the news cracks:

    A state of emergency has been declared for two districts of the Jamaican capital of Kingston after police stations became the target of gunfire attacks. The violence is believed to be connected to an extradition request for a local drug boss.

    • Here’s the video from yesterday of an interview on the Dylan Ratigan Show on MSNBC. (I never watch this guy, but just happened to turn the TV on yesterday as this was starting.) He was interviewing these two guys, Matt Simmons – Chairman Emeritus of Simmons International in Houston (who has been doing a number of interviews on PEAK Oil that can be found on YouTube), and Nicholas Pozzi – Chairman of WOW Energy Solutions. I thought it was pretty interesting.. I’d be interested in hearing from TtT on this.. (Curiousity)

  65. President Obama is holding a press conference in about 15 minutes.

  66. Thanks for the heads-up House.

    This morning I witnessed a young sparrow fledge.
    Had just placed the cat dishes down and peripherally I see a flutter – flutter from the tree: a parent guiding the sparrow to the drive way – not 10 feet from the four hungry felines! Good thing the cats were more interested in being fed kibble than going after a sparrow~!~

  67. I flushed a fledgling blue jay out of a bush in my yard, it jumped down to the ground as I walked by, and took off running away on the ground, cheeping like crazy. I immediately looked over my head, and the parent was right there, so I went back into the house. I want no quarrel with momma blue jays!

    • If any of you are able to watch the Obama press conference, will you update us here? I can’t watch it at work while all these attorneys are making demands on me. 😉

  68. Smart man. Out here we have Scrub Jays
    Conniving Clyde, the cat, is constantly being dive-bombed by the local Jay.
    No matter where Clyde sits in the yard this one Jay comes close enough for contact.

  69. Helen Thomas just asked the President when we will get out of Afghanistan – and said don’t give us the George Bushism ‘if we don’t fight them there they’ll come here.’

    The President did a kind of dance around.

  70. Helen Thomas just asked him when are we going to get out of Afghanistan! The entire press conference up to now has been about the oil disaster. He’s answering her, though.

    I need to go back to the beginning and make better notes, I got interrupted during the early part.

  71. Last question:
    Major Garrett of Fox News just asked him about the “boot on the neck of BP” remark and about the offer of a job to Sestak to get him out of the Pa. Senate race.

    He said there would be an official response shortly from the administration about Sestak.
    “I can assure the public that nothing improper took place.”

    He said Salazar has been as frustrated, angry and occasionally emotional about the issue.

  72. I’m going back and listen to it again slower now. I missed the most of the oil disaster Q & A.

  73. His answers are not short and easy to transpose, of course.

    house I give you the gold star on that one!
    The Pres did say that Salazar wouldn’t be losing his job.

    It’s disheartening that the Feingold amendment went down. We will never, ever learn from prior mistakes – war is just not the answer. All that money that could be allocated to social safety net programs…gone to war to kill and maim.

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