Watering Hole – June 30, 2010 – Open Thread

Imagine our nation becoming less dependent on foreign oil.  Isn’t that the driving force of the “drill, baby drill” crowd?

State Representative (D-PA) Dave Kessler brings alternative fuel initiative to Pennsylvania which that could wean the State and the Nation off of foreign oil and create permanent jobs.  Read more about this innovation here.

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148 thoughts on “Watering Hole – June 30, 2010 – Open Thread

  1. Cats, thank you so much for posting this ~ Dave Kessler is a fine public servant, whom I have had numerous discussions about sustainable agriculture and renewable energy with … He “gets it” on a scale that most barely comprehend, as is a driving force for change in this regard. Check out the link and share with others … And have a nice day :)

  2. I feel like posing a question I threw in at the end of yesterday’s Watering hole.

    Why does anyone seriously believe that nuking the leaking oil well in the Gulf of Mexico is, in any way, shape or form, a good idea? I’m no expert, but does anybody really understand fully what will happen if they do that? Detonate a nuclear weapon in the Gulf of Mexico? And I’m not talking about the political ramifications of violating international treaties regarding the use of nuclear weapons, I’m talking about the scientific ramifications of setting off a nuke in an ecosystem like the Gulf. Why is this a good idea? Because it doesn’t strike me as being one.

    (We can save for later a discussion on why anyone thinks nuclear weapons are a good idea at all.)

  3. Wayne – nuking the oil spill is stupid and anyone that supports such a stupid idea should be sent to the psych ward. Nuclear weapons will produce more long lasting lethal by-products then the oil.

    Got to go do my gardening before the sun reaches my westward facing property. Later.

  4. This ad during Morning Joe for GMC Trucks shows a pickup truck engine being disassembled to ‘illustrate’ how it gets its power. What I noticed as the piston/rod assemblies fly out of their bores, is that the rod end caps are still bolted to the rods. Apparently the CG artist who created the commercial never took apart or reassembled an engine. I know that’s being picky, but I thought it was funny.

  5. I would think the results of nuking the well are too unpredictable to make this a good idea, and at this stage would likely damage the well to the point where the standard procedure of sealing the well with mud via the relief well would be rendered impossible. But what do I know? I’m a farmer.

  6. OutstandingInMyField, farmers are some of the most genuine and intelligent people that I know . . . This would also be easily evidenced to anyone reading your previous post today, as well . . .

  7. Sounds like a great project, but where the fuck are my solar shingles we need to put on every goddamned roof in America?

  8. Good Morning Youngsters,…Happy hump day..

    Agree with you on the nuke thing,Wayne…Anyone thinking of doing that is just plane crazy…Not only would that wreck havock on the enviroment and wild life the drift would endanger all resident’s and could cause a shift in the shelf plates which would likely cause a bigger oil spill lasting forever..That may happen anyway but to nuke it would remove all doubt.

    Cold and rainy again yesterday and this morning, seems like November here…Guess I should plan to get a turkey to bake..

    Busy cleaning, sorting and in general trying to get moved out…Ugh!..Happy posting all, will fly over again on another day..P,B. & J.

  9. Angle on Rachel : “Salvation of Social Security …” I could barely listen to her drivel . . .

    I would concur, Cats. She has two “rr”‘s . . . and she defintely has two heads!

  10. SCARBOROUGH: I hear it on the Hill, I’m sure you hear it on the Hill all the time, it’s not reported but so many Republicans tell me this is a guy that is not the hardest worker in the world. After 5 o’clock, 6 o’clock at night, he is disengaged at best. You can see him around town. He does not have, let’s say, the work hours of Newt Gingrich. … Every Republican I talk to says John Boehner by 5 or 6 o’clock at night, you can see him at bars. He is not a hard worker.

    That video where Boehner was complaining about how the Democrats were trying to kill an ant with a nuclear weapon? I swear Boehner looked drunk to me. Was that interview after 5 PM? Because that would make sense now.

  11. Wayne, Boehner often seem to have a snoot full in the afternoon. I had a boss at an ad agency that took two hour martini lunches and did nothing the rest of the afternoon. My guess is Boehner does the same.

    Also, using any kind of bomb seem risky since it could cause damage that can’t be contained. Nuclear fallout is just icing on the cake.

  12. Cats, Angle seems a lot like Sarah Palin without the high priced advisers. She appears to be not very bright with just a touch of psychosis confusing her even more.

  13. Tonight is the first time I will have worked in two weeks. Maybe I will call in sick….

  14. “Aint’ nothing like the real thing!”

    Now that’s a 20% I’m pleased to be among!

  15. Wow, I ahd something serious to say and then the thread went all cesspool on me. Wait til Saturday or get a room, preferably one with lots of wall sockets by the looks of it…

    Oh yes seriously:

    This ‘get off foreign oil’ thing is a total red herring it’s a talking point to get the oil companies more access to local federal lands, to push this oil shale natural gas bullshit, open up ANWR, the east coast the west coast and provide a ‘causus belli’ to annex Alberta. Oh and it allows the oxymoronic ‘clean’ coal a look in on the party.

    *All* is foreign once you dig it up, the *market* owns it, not you, not Uncle Sam, *the market*, the highest bidder. By saying ‘get off *foriegn* oil’ we’re signing on to the talking point that if we just looked local and let the *market* find the energy we could fix it all and continue Happy Motoring around the freeways stopping off for burgers and fries whenever. Well the *market* is pissing black shit all over the Gulf of Mexico right now – that’s what the *market* does when you hand over the keys to your energy future.

    Get off fossil fuels – end of story. Force the government to force the change. As the saying goes, the Stone Age didn’t end because we ran out of stones, no, the people with the stone axes got wiped out by the ones with iron spears!

  16. That’s right HoR, a couple of camera watchers over at the ToD spotted that when they cut off the riser. I’d been over the log of the last two hours of the Halliburton data downhole and the whole drill string was being lifted out of the hole by the pressure of the gas coming up the well, the well in other words was puking up 3 mile long lump of steel pipe in slow motion.

  17. TtT – I’m OK with what Dave is doing with the algae because the coal fired plants are already here and the algae is a way to minimize the pollution from the coal. I do agree that we need more wind and solar and other non-fossil sources of energy. The purpose of the algae is to create fuel for planes, cars, trucks etc… Unless the world does a complete turn around, people won’t be giving up cars or their cell phones or their Internet connections or their computers so we need to keep moving in a more positive direction and to hell with big oil and big gas.

  18. This was good – on the Think Fast thread – way to go House.

    House of Roberts says:
    I don’t understand why the trolls don’t just start out with this for a comment each time:

    This comment has been voted down. Click to read.

    It would save time and effort for everybody.

    What a great suggestion! Then the trolls can do the ‘victory dance’ at what an honor it is to have such ‘stingers’!

  19. This, just in from Captain Obvious:

    The United States consumes 20% of the worlds oil with 3% of the population and has only 2% of the known reserves of oil left.

    Here http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oil_reserves_in_the_United_States

    and here:
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oil_reserves

    Look, I’m a realist, sometime in the future the caribou will get f***ed in our need to get the black stuff. Its because we use the oil for all kinds of stuff: pharamceuticals, plastics etc and without oil that stuff goes away right now. But to stick 60-70% of the stuff into our bloody SUVs so we can drive to the f***ing outlet malls every weekend….. well that’s one that whoever comes after us will ask ‘What the f*** were they thinking?’

    /rant still going.

  20. Cats, I saw the Pentagon’s comment about the litium find in Afghanistan – “used in cell phone batteries”….. woo hoo, now we can continue Tweeting how good our last dump was from the bathroom to our friends… we’re saved!

  21. TtT, great rant – and so damn true, all of what you’ve said – especially about the ‘foreign’ vs. ‘domestic’ attempting to give the oomph to ‘drill baby drill’ on any and all US surfaces.

    Get off fossil fuels – end of story. Force the government to force the change. As the saying goes, the Stone Age didn’t end because we ran out of stones, no, the people with the stone axes got wiped out by the ones with iron spears!

    That is the mantra we must follow through on.

  22. From HoR’s link…
    The other key to minimizing the risks of a similar blowout is economic. For example, Beck said requiring a concurrent relief well with every project could drain any profit from drilling. Smith, along with a chorus of public officials on the Gulf Coast, warns that Salazar’s six-month moratorium could drive the exploration industry out of the gulf permanently.

    Nah, those bastards are way too greedy to abandon drilling in the Gulf.

  23. So I heard on the radio this morning, but haven’t been able to verify it, that one of the reasons BP hasn’t sealed the well permanently is due to lease restrictions that wouldn’t allow them to come back and reopen the well for drilling later.

    Anyone else hear this? Any truth to this?

  24. Good moning!

    I heard about the algae project (or something similar) a while back. It certainly sounds like a good idea to help wean us off fossil fuels until the next big thing comes along (TtT’s iron spears, perhaps). The fact that it can also make the coal plants run cleaner is a huge plus as well.

    LOL, Zooey. That was hilarious. I still love that Meg Ryan scene, where she makes it so evident exactly how easy it is (not that I do it, of course :p ).

    “I’ll have what she’s having.”

  25. LOL…I meant ‘morning’, of course. Though given some of the discussion here today, ‘good moaning’ might be appropriate as well. :p

  26. Cats,

    I can understand that they are losing money if they are idle and could be drilling. The six month time frame would have resulted in moving the exploration ships/platforms to other parts of the world, just to keep them working. After seeing the map the other night on Rachel, showing the 3600 producing wells and only 33 drillsites, I felt a lot better about letting them move somewhere else.

    At the end of the article, is the clincher, to move to the equivalent of Norway’s regulations would only cost a half cent a gallon.

  27. House, thanks. That’s the gist of what I had heard. Time will tell if it’s true. But if it is, there will be hell to pay.

  28. It was either Bill Press or Stephanie Miller this morning (Hal Sparks filling in for Steph). I wasn’t listening all that closely and it seemed like they were making the comment in passing, and didn’t really dwell upon it. It was essentially the comment you referenced from Thom’s show (which may be where they got it as well).

    Sorry I’m not terribly clear on the source, which is one the reasons I brought it up here to make sure I wasn’t imagining it.

  29. Cats, that’s like the crack pusher saying he’ll quit town if you dare go into rehab for a week.

  30. I listened to Bill Press today myself, but also not that closely, and I listen to Carl and Christine at KPOJ instead of Stephanie Miller.

  31. 2ebb,

    I’m wondering if the next time we really get troll-spammed at TP, if it would attract Faiz’s attention if a bunch of us were to post repeated comments of just that sentence.

    This comment has been voted down. Click to read.

    Reckon what kind of response a thread with about a hundred of those would get?

    I did notice that one of the commercial spammers disappeared this morning. I haven’t checked for it on later threads yet.

  32. Cats, not yet, I’m still trying to get my money out of my mom’s house.

  33. Everytime a woman makes a noise I count it. Ouch and Get off my hair counts as multiples…

  34. BnF, breaking up the tar balls floating about will liberate the remaining light ends in the tar and they’ll evaporate into the atmosphere. They won’t come back down as rain though they’ll head to the upper reaches of the atmoshpere and help make next summer a real doozy (and the next, and the next… and you thought the good news could never end eh?).

    There was a spill off the Shetland Islands a number of years ago where the wave action of the North Atlantic made the oil break up quicker and the spill impact was not as bad as feared on the shores.

  35. G’day everyone. Back in the office and in checking my email found there are politicians in Wisconsin who are pushing to allow drilling for oil in Lake Michigan and Superior.

    Now that one is truly stupid.

  36. 80% ? Since 100% of men can’t ‘fake’ it, just who is getting the short end of that one?

  37. Hooda, I wasn’t going to say that….. but you know I was thinking it.

  38. 80% ? Since 100% of men can’t ‘fake’ it, just who is getting the short end of that one?

    Depends on how long ‘it’ is.

    (ducking for cover)

  39. Ahhh, now the other fibs are unveiled…size does matter.

    And women can so pee standing up, they just have crappy penmanship when it comes to writing things in the snow. :)

  40. Can’t fake an orgasm…check
    Pee effectively standing up…check.

    No wonder men run the world. Look at their advantages!

  41. Given how secretive everyone has been on the geological reports, I would think nuclear weapons, or even large conventional ones would be a “bad idea” to “fix” the leak.

  42. That and “fixing” a hole by blasting it bigger just seems counter-intuitive.

    I know I am late to the party, but I am just rolling out of bed after a lot of late night emergency work.

  43. “Given how secretive everyone has been on the geological reports, I would think nuclear weapons, or even large conventional ones would be a “bad idea” to “fix” the leak.”

    My sentiments exactly. Thanks for expressing it so well!

    It’s the secrecy – and the ‘news’ in dribs and drabs a month or more later that is also troublesome.

  44. Hee…enjoyed all this talk of markmanship (or lack thereof). :-P Too funny.

    Ans xzbe, that Jesus link was priceless. Gotta agree about the Ann Coulter one. :-)

    Oh, and agree with glamour about the nuke. From everything I’ve heard, the rock is already pretty fractured. It seems like fracturing it even more would be a great way to end up with about a million cracks in the seafloor all spewing oil. Not to mention the after effects of setting off a nuke in the middle of the Gulf!

  45. I give up. I won’t post this on TP, but I just can’t handle it anymore.

    Thread opens up. Mud slung from both sides, but mostly from conservatives who take every small complaint from talking points and hope that something is a “stinger”.

    It’s gotten me to the point that I log on in the morning, vote down, vote down, vote down, and do little else. It’s starting to affect my job searches, as well.

    I can’t take this any longer. TP, good bye. For good. I don’t freaking care any more about who is there, what they say, or how they say it. There’s just no pleasing some people, and there’s no shutting them up either.

  46. Breathe in the fresh air, Purple State – you are in the Zoo – a comfort spot (you can actually walk around bare foot without worrying about stepping in troll excrement!

  47. It’s not as much that, 2ebb. It’s the constant panic that they are shoving at me. This nonstop, never-ending panic that the U.S. is going to hell just because of one man.

    I’m sick of it. If this is what bipartisan diplomacy leads to, I don’t want a taste.

  48. A sort of Zen question…if we detonate a nuke and no people of color get blown up, to neocon chickenhawks still have an orgasm?

  49. Purple State, good to see you. And look at it this way, it could be worse for them. He could be a lesbian.

  50. Oh wait, he’s living with a woman! Jeebus, I’m surprised the trolls have picked up on that one yet.

  51. If there were true ‘bipartisan’ politics there would be some diplomacy – of course there isn’t so, as you succinctly put it, the “nonstop, never-ending panic…” ensues.

    That one man, the President no less, causes such consternation among the repiggies means we do live in a very shallow society. Non-thinkers who oppose everything on the basis it is ‘that man’ who proposes good for the country.

    Sometimes you just have to step away from the inanity of it all.

  52. Sorry, guys. It’s just the self-inflicted panic that my employment searches haven’t been fruitful lately, and having a mosquito LOL! in my ear over at TP over and over again isn’t helping calm me down.

  53. Cenk Uygur is subbing for Dylan Ratigan on July 6th and 7th! That’s next Tuesday and Wednesday.

  54. Purple State, kidding aside, it is absolutely amazing that the supposedly most powerful and advanced country in the world today is run on fear.

    Good luck with your job search. You aren’t alone and the Zoo has both great mosquito netting and a vast supply of Skin-So-Soft.

  55. First the US elects a black man. Then Australia picks an atheist woman. What is God thinking? /snark (just in case)

  56. Julia Gillard told ABC radio in Melbourne that she was not prepared to go through ‘religious rituals’ for the sake of appearances.
    Ms Gillard added: ‘I am, of course, a great respecter of religious beliefs, but they are not my beliefs.

    Ms Gillard, who was born in the Welsh town of Barry, revealed she had been raised as a Baptist, before converting to Atheism.

    I’ve never read/heard it phrased that way – converting to a non-belief.
    Interesting.

    Good on her about not going through the pretense. If only the US could come to that realization we’d be much better.
    The hypocrisy is so damn annoying!

  57. You are right about the healing, Cats. And purple is a very healing color at that!

    Good evening to all – Heading out to listen to the coyotes !!

  58. While putting my Spanish Rice hot dish in the oven to bake for supper I had an idea. Since the Rich and Religious have been running things for at least 1,500 years now, how about we give the Poor and the Secular a shot at it?

    We could sell it to Faux, it’s Fair and Balanced.

  59. Chris Hayes is subbing for Ed Schultz, and today’s text survey was: “Do you think Senator Scott Brown is trying to kill financial reform?” 97% Yes 3% No.

    It was just his turn to be Lucy and pull away the football this week. All the Republicans have done is pretend to co-sponsor legislation, then bail at the last minute, having wasted the Democrats’ time. It’s all about wasting as much time as possible, hoping to make the Dems look bad for the midterms.

  60. This is too funny!

    Things Republicans Hate
    An excerpt from #48 Silicon Valley:

    Another popular corporation in Silicon Valley is named ‘Google’. Google is a ’search engine’ that allows people to find pornography, drug dealers, non-Christian institutions, tattoo parlors and libraries through the internet. Most Republicans do not use Google because of its evil capabilities. They prefer asking a polite butler named Jeeves for directions on the internet. These inquiries are usually “Can you overdose on Goody’s Headache Powder?” and “Why does it burn when I pee?”

  61. Since the Rich and Religious have been running things for at least 1,500 years now, how about we give the Poor and the Secular a shot at it?

    A long those lines or ‘As the World Turns’ (in a more positive direction than the US)

    The rise of ‘Dalit lit’ marks a new chapter for India’s untouchables

    As caste divides fade, a fresh crop of writers is emerging

  62. House, that was hilarious!
    Of course Ask Jeeves is now just ‘Ask’ or some such silliness.

  63. house, Dylan Ratigan makes my ass ache. I turn the tv off when he comes on. Maybe Cenk will get the job full time.

  64. She was not injured, and since neither drugs nor alcohol was suspected, she was not charged, according to the Colorado State Patrol.

    The station reported Tuesday that she might not have taken some medication that day. Her husband arrived soon after the wreck and took her home, KKCO reported.

    How could they not ‘suspect’ drugs? When someone relays fleeing a vampire…

  65. I’ve noted a long absence of ElBruce from TP.

    linzloo08 (or whatever the nick was) has also been absent. bizzarobrain has been infrequent.
    pete, scare as well.

    When bizz, pete and Eugene are on TP, later in the evenings, there are some great conversations and the trolls disappear (completely out of their depth and no one will engage in the trivial crap).

  66. Shayne,

    Ratigan was on Hartmann the other day, giving the banksters hell, and he’s had a “Fixing Broken Government” series this week, that hasn’t been bad at all.

    For me, he’s a lot better than Tweety!

  67. I don’t know house he’s a little to hyper but I’ll give it a try the rest of the week.

  68. Well, he is hyper! I seldom watch him either, but it’s because of the time of day he’s on. I catch him on his website, just like Keith and Rachel, he has a page with his segments every day.

  69. Sorry to hear you’re not feeling well Z. Feel better soon. Check the Tea Party Jesus link. It’ll make you laugh.

  70. I thought the comment about not doing the rituals for the sake of the image was encouraging. Its odd that atheists are often asked/pressured to adhere to the rituals no matter what. Good on Julia for being true to her principles… maybe people should be looking at that as a measure of who she is…

  71. Good for Julia Gillard. An elected official in a secular government is not chosen to be a spiritual leader, but a good public servant, which includes people of all religions. I do not have a problem with an elected official actually practicing his or her religion, attending services at a place of worship, etc. But to do things like attend Easter services just because the head of state is supposed to be seen doing so is, as far as I’m concerned, not a proper expectation of our leaders.

    Our US Presidents have usually been of some sort of Christian religious persuasion, but they always seemed to think that they had to be seen attending services at some other Christian denomination or even at a Temple. Why? If they are known to be Methodist, there’s nothing wrong with being seen only attending Methodist services. It’s what Methodists do. So there’s no reason at all to attend a Baptist service as some kind of “outreach”. Just be what you are. And if you’re not really religious, then be honest with the American people (who are less religious than polls suggest) and do what you did before you became president.

    Gotta go. TDS is about to start. Good night, All.

  72. Wayne, Julia Gillard is not the head of state….. the Queen of Great Britain and Northern Ireland is….(yes, wtf?). And as head of the Church of England, she has no choice but to lob for the big Sky Fairy events….

    Other than that….. good on her… Wonder if we’ll see a vote for complete severance from Australia.

    They have been twatted at cricket by England this summer, could be time…?

  73. Did I mention that the first time I let my daughter practice driving with me she sideswiped my garbage cans and creased the side of the car all the way down. And you guys worry about boys missing the toilet when they pee. Pfffffttttt.

  74. Git a room!

    Christopher Hitchens, can’t say I agree with the man all the time and his new-found support for endless war, but I can admire his wit, writing, analysis and stand on religion in the face of hostility (thereby demonstrating that he doesn’t agree with them all the time either).

    Well Christopher, fight the good fight, be well, keep writing and I doubt we’ll see you at Lourdes anytime soon.

    Speaking of Lourdes… if there are miracles, how come we never see any wooden legs, or glass eyes on the wall outside the shrine?

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