Sunday Roast: Something’s Gotta Give

The rich aren’t just ‘rich’ anymore, they’re super-duper-mondo rich, and the poor are just more and more dirt poor.  The middle class is shrinking everyday, and they sure as hell aren’t joining the super-duper-mondo-rich crowd.

As I was surfing around the interwebs this week (I promised myself I would remember where, but you know that goes), I found a link to this post: 22 Statistics That Prove That The Middle Class Is Being Systematically Wiped Out Of Existence In America.

The whole list of 22 items is depressing enough, so I pulled 7 that might hit close to home for the average American:

#1) According to a poll taken in 2009, 61 percent of Americans “always or usually” live paycheck to paycheck, which was up from 49 percent in 2008 and 43 percent in 2007.

61% is an unbelievable number, but when you take into account that the number of Americans living paycheck to paycheck rose a whopping 12% in one year, that is just staggering.  We may want to put money away in a nest egg for the future, but because our money doesn’t go as far as it used to go, we simply cannot.

#2) The number of Americans with incomes below the official poverty line rose by about 15% between 2000 and 2006, and by 2008 over 30 million U.S. workers were earning less than $10 per hour.

As with the first item, the number of Americans living in poverty has taken a huge leap in recent years.  These are working Americans who nevertheless still remain in poverty.  Excuse me, but Americans work harder than ever these days — where is the money going?

#3) According to Harvard Magazine, 66% of the income growth between 2001 and 2007 went to the top 1% of all Americans.

Found it!  Yep, the top 1% has sucked up more money than they’ll ever be able to spend — because, with the help of the policies of Ronald Reagan, George H.W. Bush, Bill Clinton, and George W. Bush, they can.

#16) In America today, the average time needed to find a job has risen to a record 35.2 weeks.

35.2 weeks — if you’re lucky, the planets are aligned just so, and you’re holding your mouth right.  Americans want to work, and the proof of that is 5 people vying for every available job.  If you’re not lucky, Senate Democrats are trying to help you, but Senate Republicans just think you’re a bunch of lazy bastards who want to suck on the government teat so you don’t have to work — like they do.

#18) For the first time in U.S. history, more than 40 million Americans are on food stamps, and the U.S. Department of Agriculture projects that number will go up to 43 million Americans in 2011.

This is what happens when you break the back of the middle class.  They don’t follow the mantra of “work hard and you’ll get ahead,” because their jobs are GONE.   40 million of us cannot earn enough money to feed ourselves, and frankly, those are only the people who are countable, who qualify, and who know how to jump through the bureaucratic hoops.  The American Dream, if it ever truly existed, is dead — except for the top 1%, they are totally living it up.  For them, the American Dream is so very alive.

#21) According to one new study, approximately 21 percent of all children in the United States are living below the poverty line in 2010 – the highest rate in 20 years.

Finally, the saddest and most shocking statistic of all.  Over 20% of our children live in poverty.  In the United States of America, one of the richest nations in the world, one-fifth of our children are poverty-stricken.  If you are not shocked by that, you are not human.

Work hard, stay in school, follow the rules, be a good citizen — and you just might land yourself that service job, earning less than $10 per hour.  You’ll learn to fight hard for that job, because four other people want it.  You’ll always spend 100% (or more) of your paycheck, will qualify for food stamps, and generation after generation, children will fare worse than their parents.

But no matter what, thank goodness, the top 1% of Americans will always have more than they will ever need.

American Exceptionalism — awesome.

HT: HouseofRoberts, who found the link at Pennsylvania For Change.
Thanks for the reminder, House!

This is our daily open thread, you know what to do.

233 thoughts on “Sunday Roast: Something’s Gotta Give

  1. Ketchup is a vegetable – st. ronnie raygun

    “…early in the administration of Ronald Reagan, that would have reclassified ketchup and pickle relish from condiments to a vegetable, allowing public schools to cut out a serving of cooked or fresh vegetable from hot lunch program child-nutrition requirements. The White House Office of Management and Budget estimated a potential US $1 billion annual savings in the cost of subsidized meals for low-income students.

    Family Values at its finest/ In utero: we care – once delivered the child is yours.

  2. I was telling my brother that the top 1% always takes care to nurture the American Dream myth as you so eloquently wrote out…that if you work hard, do everything right, that you will end up rich. It allows the top 1% to then blame you by suggesting that you did something wrong (perhaps you didn’t include enough on your resume, perhaps you didn’t get that 4.0, etc.) when the dream does not work out for you.

    It’s easy for those who had it all made to pontificate about how they made the right choices (just a polite way of saying how superior they are to do in the Social Darwinism they project) and to point fingers, because it allows them to rest easy knowing that they have the victims of their class warfare fooled into thinking that it’s their own fault, or that of TEH ILLEGALS, TEH GAYS, or TEH BROWN PEOPLE, or whomever…

  3. The rich have always used the poor = lazy and shiftless rhetoric even while history has shown that the poor deserve a hell of a lot more credit than they do. It used to be that a justification for slavery was that Africans would “idle” and “piss” their time away in Africa if they were free and that they HAD to be forced to work, because they were “innately” lazy…when that is all hogwash. I remember reading about the plantation owner in Mississippi (you know the guy who supposedly ran everything and managed the slaves and actually did more work than the slaves themselves according to the Lost Cause myth) who bemoaned the fact that he had never worked a day in his life and did not know what to do, now that his slaves weren’t around to do all the work for him.

    Today, you have trolls pontificating about how the poor are lazy and how they should go back to school, forgetting that the poor are desperate for work and if they are lucky to be working, are often working multiple jobs, something which the elitists in America either acknowledge or call it uniquely American…

  4. I was talking to my boss about this the other day, and I say one of the problems we on the left have is that we can’t find a good, pithy saying that will fit on a bumper sticker that sums up the solution to how to deal with the growing problem of income inequality. About the closest I can come is “Eat The Rich.”

    Then I thought about it, and I decided we should not only go with that one, we should actually start carrying it out. Find some really rich and greedy bastard that doesn’t care about his fellow human beings, storm his house, and eat him. Once the other rich greedy bastards start getting the message, perhaps they’ll be willing to part with half or more of their billions. (Seriously, does anyone need more than half a billion dollars? No, they do not need that much, and no argument can justify allowing people that much money without taxing it heavily. It is pure bullshit non-logic to say that if we tax the rich too much, they’ll not invest their money in order to make more.)

    Of course, being the “fussy eater” I am, I’ll let someone else have my share of the eats, but I’ll happily take my share of the money. 🙂

  5. In honor of the British Open being held at St. Andrews.
    Warning: Not for viewing by kids, except us grown kids!

  6. 😉

    I heard that humans taste like chicken. During the Eisenhower years, the rich were taxed at 90% and so they invested their money in “tax free municipal bonds”. Ah, it was the ’50’s and the time when conservative Republicans ruled. Weren’t the ’50’s considered the “happy days”?

    I read this statement in my AARP Bulletin yesterday, “the deficit not be closed by cutting benefits that today’s seniors and future generations have earned over a lifetime of hard work.”

    “If Washington wants to restore confidence in our nation’s budget, law makers should deal with what’s really caused our federal deficit. The fact is, Americans pay for Social Security, and it hasn’t added one dime to the deficit.”

    Get that greedy Republicans? Social Security hasn’t added one dime to the deficit and should not be used to lower the deficit which was created by Republican greed.

  7. I heard that there are 18 holes in Golf because there is 18 shots in a 5th of Whisky: when the Whisky’s gone, it’s game over!

  8. Cats, that’s why Social Security should be privatized! Imagine the effect on the economy to suddenly dump that much money into the hands of the finaincial industry, so that they can then gamble with it on the market! If they win their bets, they keep the profits. If they lose, everyone’s Social Security is wiped out, but hey, it’s their fault for not saving for retirement in the first place, right?

  9. BnF,

    What do you mean ‘you heard’? Are you going to have us believe you never kept score on a bottle to find out? You wouldn’t have had to play golf, you know!


    Add to that, that since 1983, this generation is the only one that has had to pay their parents’ SS benefits, while also paying their own. That’s not passing on the debt to our children!

  10. On MtP, there was no real news, David Gregory interrupted Bob Menendez and Chris van Hollen every time they were about to make an important point. Cornyn and Sessions repeated the phony consensus talking points that always start, ‘the American people want’ or the American people don’t want’.

    I just rewound This Week to watch, after watching MtP first. Biden was on the first half hour. They have the regular roundtable after that.

  11. Add to that, that since 1983, this generation is the only one that has had to pay their parents’ SS benefits, while also paying their own. That’s not passing on the debt to our children!

    I am not sure that is entirely fair because while the boomers screwed everyone pretty viscously, there is also the issue of longer lifespans. Kind of like how the leadership in the U.S. skipped a generation for a pretty good chunk of time. I am just not sure that all the boomers being jerks is the sole reason there was a time when one generation would be covering their generation and another. Given extending lifespans, I would think it would eventually be inevitable.

    I hate to post and ran, but I was working for most of the last 12 hours and some intercourse and a nap are calling my name. I just thought I would point out an aspect of that situation I was not sure everyone would notice.

  12. HoR – You must have a strong stomach to watch the Sunday morning liars club fest.

    This morning’s breakfast was great. Bluegrass Breeze made pancakes using buckwheat and quinoa flours and he added freshly picked, homegrown blueberries. Yum!

    Since I got up late today, I’m way behind schedule. I’ll catch up with everyone later today. Enjoy!

  13. …while the boomers screwed everyone pretty viscously…

    I think maybe you meant viciously, but I am laughing here because viscously would actually mean ‘with plenty of lubrication’! You have already covered yourself by explaining your lack of sleep.

    1983 was when Social Security was increased. I’m 53, and I’ve been paying that increase most of my working life, since I started making decent wages. Now they say I have to take less, in the form of benefits, when my turn rolls around, so the wealthy don’t have to give back the undeserved tax cuts for the top two percent that was ‘rammed down the throats of the middle class and working poor’ by the Republicans.

  14. glamour…

    Are you saying that all the boomers screwed everyone? I take exception to that statement. The boomers are a large population split mainly into two groups… the conservatives and the “hippies”. I use the term “hippies” as a generalization for all the boomers that fought for civil rights, women’s rights, clean air, and clean water, just to mention a few. The other grouping were the conservatives like Bush who had the world handed to them. What all the boomers have in common is a sense of being important and that this importance has an effect of the world. This sense of importance is what motivate(s)(d) the “hippy” boomers to work and volunteer for the common good and it is also responsible for the greedy boomers that took and want to continue to take everything for themselves.

    It’s important that you understand the difference. Don’t blame me for the actions of my evil twin.

    Note: the term “hippy” is being used loosely and not in the true definition of the word. Just trying to keep it simple.

  15. HoR – I am with you. Social Security needs to be there for everyone. You should and everyone else should receive full benefits. Social Security is solvent and the Republicans are telling lies about this solvency so that they can steal more of American’s money. The rich need to pay their share of the burden. After all, the rich share the same benefits of having public roads and police protection to name just two of the many benefits that “socialism” brings.

  16. My rule of thumb is a simple one: when EVERYONE has ‘enough’, only then should those who want more than enough or too much be free to go for it. But never until EVERYONE has ENOUGH to live a comfortable life where food, shelter, and education of their young are never, ever, in doubt.

    Is that Socialism? Marxism? Communism? Some combination of various isms? I don’t worry about it. It’s the right thing to which any decent society should automatically aspire.

    Oh, wait, maybe it’s the Tea Party sign, the one that referred to Obama as a “Marksist-Facist” [sic-sic].

    I don’t expect to ever see egalitarianism thrive in America — there’s far too much embedded greed to ever allow it.

  17. Cats,

    To be fair, some conservative boomers ‘got theirs’ at a time when entreprenurialism still flourished here in the US. They did work for it, but a lot of the ‘trust fund babies’ didn’t. The system we have today is a result of deregulation for big business, without deregulation for small business, so they can keep small businesses political interests aligned with the national Chamber of Commerce. Under Democrats, small businesses would actually have a chance to compete and grow to challenge the multinationals. Under Republicans, the best they can hope for is to be enough of a thorn in the big boys’ side to get bought out. That’s why I’m unemployed right now. A local entrepreneur got lucrative enough to be bought, and he made millions. Then they closed the plant, and we’re out of a job. The same thing happened here when Sanmina of California bought SCI here. SCI is a tenth of what it used to be here. That work went offshore.

    By the way, Cats, you and I know where Zooey got that article! 😀

  18. What’s gonna happen when we have 40 million Americans with no job, no unemployment benefits, no savings and no home?

    Republicans are hoping for that scenario, and doing everything in their power to bring it about. They hope to return to power when food riots break out and Obama has to declare martial law.

    Republicans will point to “Obama’s failed presidency” and offer themselves as the nation’s saviours. And millions will vote for them…

  19. Morning all. I seem to see a major shift in America from the idea that everyone should work hard for their piece of the pie to a small group wanting to have not only the whole pie but also the bakery that made it, the farms that grow the fillings, the trucks that deliver them, the stores that sell them and so on.

    And the reason appears to be so they can then decide who is worthy of getting a bit of pie.

    • House, now I remember why I thought I’d remember where I’d gotten the link — the post has houses in the header pic, so I thought I’d remember ‘House’ as providing the link.


      Giving credit where credit is due in 3…2…1…

  20. Oh, lordy, on MSNBC they’re talking about the waters off NJ being 6 degrees warmer than average, as evidenced by sharks, stingrays, and jellyfish appearing where they normally don’t belong. Crap.

  21. Republicans will point to “Obama’s failed presidency” and offer themselves as the nation’s saviours. And millions will vote for them…

    And millions more will be added to those that are already out on the streets without shelter and food. Then the rich will offer them jobs as servants paid with below minimal wages and the rich will set up “factory towns” where these indentured serfs can live and the serfs will be grateful for all that the rich do for them. It will be just like the days before President Teddy Roosevelt dismantled the monopolies. Oh, those were the good old days that the rich corporations loved. The Republicans have been working towards this goal since the death of President Theodore Roosevelt. The problems that we experience with jobs today is all because there were Roosevelts in the White House.
    \sarc off

  22. The baggers are on track to becoming the first first group of people who not only willingly sold themselves into slavery but also thought they were getting a great deal.

  23. House, we watched Press the Meat this morning, too. At least for once Gregory tried to get some specifics instead of just hyperbole from Cornyn and Pete Sessions. Still, it was not emphasized enough that one reason the deficit is so much higher now is because Obama put the two Bush wars back on the budget. Idiots!

  24. I also loved on PtM/MtP when one of the Rs said something about “the American people have had enough of the one-party system” – LOL! 18 months’ worth of Dems being forced to have a supermajority in order to pass any legislation, vs 6 fucking YEARS of one-party R rule under Bush! Yeesh!

  25. BnF: What’s gonna happen when we have 40 million Americans with no job, no unemployment benefits, no savings and no home?

    It’s called the GOP version of immigration reform. The border traffic will do an abrupt about face with millions of illegal immigrants heading home AND millions of noveaux poor Americans slipping into Mexico in search of a job, any kind of a job at all. America will be both whiter and wealthier in return, and that’s what God has always wanted so it’s a good thing.

    /not sure if that’s snark or not, actually.

  26. Morning all. I seem to see a major shift in America from the idea that everyone should work hard for their piece of the pie to a small group wanting to have not only the whole pie but also the bakery that made it, the farms that grow the fillings, the trucks that deliver them, the stores that sell them and so on.

    And then they’ll jack up the price of pie and people will stop eating it, the entire pie market will collapse, and they’ll go running to the government begging to be bailed out lest they lose their lucrative, ill-gotten life styles.

    Which is exactly what happened at the end of the Bush terms.

  27. Jane, I started trying to make a spreadsheet of the last several budgets, to illustrate that, but it got away from me. Every federal line item of spending provides jobs to someone, so cutting anywhere in a recession would harm the economy, so the budget had to get bigger. TP had a pie chart, showing the tiny sliver that Obama and the Democrats added, I think it was from Yglesias’ blog. What I didn’t get from the pie chart was real numbers.

    • From Washington Monthly:

      [Pew Research report]: Only about a third of Americans (34%) know that the government’s bailout of banks and financial institutions was enacted under the Bush administration. Nearly half (47%) incorrectly say that the Troubled Asset Relief Program — widely known as TARP — was signed into law by President Obama.

      Repiggie revisionist history is working.

  28. Bill Richardson vs. J.D.Hayworth on immigration on Face The Nation.

    Hayworth started out by quoting some Arizona Rot-wing blog that proclaimed him the winner of his debate with McCain, and Schieffer bitch-slapped him immediately for not answering the question he asked! LOL!

  29. It feels like we are stuck in the middle of a bad remake of Pinocchio, listening to all the little jackasses braying about how good they have it.

  30. The robber baron typically opposed unionization, as this would cost more money. So his money was often made on the backs of the suffering. Further, excess amounts of money from the robber baron could usually quell controversy or media attention if needed.


    Robert Scheer’s Columns

    There’s Just No Pleasing Some Robber Barons

    The flight from reason that now marks American public discourse came home for me last Friday when I found myself on public radio debating whether Barack Obama is anti-business. The “news hook” for KCRW’s “Left, Right & Center” show, which I have co-hosted for 15 years, was an absurd spate of charges from Obama’s former big-business allies that he had become their enemy. If only it were so.

  31. “Repiggie revisionist history is working.”

    The fact that it works points yet one more wagging finger at the dismal state of public education in this country. That’s bad, but consider that it’s still a few more years before the true impact of No Child Left Behind shows up. After THAT happens, hold your breath!

  32. Danica Patrick at the Espy Awards

    I don’t know who the idiot is who wrote the story to go with these photos, but they clearly have no clue about racing, since Danica’s Nascar excursions are merely an experiment and not her full time Indycar career. I saw this on the race broadcast and thought the guys might enjoy looking.

    • Wow, Danica Patrick is a hottie — and I’m secure enough to say so. 😉

      From the no-nonsense on her face in one of the those pictures, I’m sure she’d have no problems whatsoever taking on the idiot who wrote that article.

  33. Frugal, it’s not just the dismal state of public education, it’s the slack-jawed stenographer state of journalism and the media. It’s almost treasonous that the “news” media not only does little-to-nothing to inform the public, but is so ill-informed itself. The attention span and memory retention of the media is as bad as that of a 10-year-old. Jeez, after some 40 years of supposedly killing off my brain cells, even I remember more of recent history than some of those talking heads. And that’s incredibly pathetic for our country.

  34. The homeless don’t vote.

    Because to them, the first Tuesday in November is no different than the first Monday and the first Wednesday. And that is something the Republican mind just can’t wrap its head around.

  35. House, we’re still to believe that the only calendar on you living room wall has pictures of cats (felines)?

    Totally messed up the first post – I do know the difference between were and we’re…

  36. We all know the real reason the economy is in the tank.
    It’s those darn waiters & waitresses making 100k a year in tips and not paying their fair share of taxes.

    Same for all the panhandlers and stoplight window washers.

    And the illegal immigrants taking those high paying jobs away from decent Amurkans.

    And the millions of old farts making their doctors scam Medicare so they can get their cut of the swag.

    And those lazy unemployed people who aren’t willing to flip burgers and stock shelves.

    It has nothing to do with the 2%ers hoarding more money than they could spend in three lifetimes. They are doing all they can what with hiring folks to do the landscaping on their summer homes, clean their pools, wash all those cars, cater their parties but dang it there is only so much a rich person can do.

  37. There’s a fundamental flaw in telling people that America is the land where’s there no limit on how much wealth you can accumulate. People won’t limit themselves on how much wealth they accumulate.

  38. via TP:

    Today on CBS’s Face the Nation, TeaParty365 co-founder David Webb said that the National Tea Party Federation “expelled” Mark Williams and his Tea Party Express “in the last 24 hours” for his “clearly offensive” satirical letter saying “coloreds” supported slavery.

    You guys on the right need to understand something. Racist humor is an example of racism, not humor. Got it?

  39. Zooey,

    I wouldn’t mind if America was billed as the place where you can make enough money to take care of yourself, your spouse, your children, and your grandchildren. After that, they’re on their own. 🙂

  40. but, but, but, didn’t they just spend the last few days telling us there is no racism in the Tea Potty movement?

    And if being offensive is reason for expulsion, what are those last three guys going to do? Cutthroat sheepshead, anyone?

  41. Danica started 12th, picked off two cars on the opening lap, then settled in to work down the early laps. A caution on lap 17 made the whole field take pit stops, and her crew gained her one spot, so now, with a slight front wing adjustment, and new tires, we’ll see if she’s any faster. On the restart a Penske ahead of her just wrecked so she’s one spot better now.

  42. but, but, but, didn’t they just spend the last few days telling us there is no racism in the Tea Potty movement?

    hooda, you beat me to it. Exactly the point I wanted to make.

  43. More from Bitchy Mitchy…”I have got better things to do than to wade in to all of these disputes and discussions that are going on out in the country. ”

    There’s legislation to block, whining about the stimulus to do, lobbyists to take money from, a war to start in Iran and frame Obama for it. I’m just swamped.

    Oh and they might call me a turtle haid RINO which would make me cry.

  44. I felt strongly enough about saying that that I actually just logged in to TP and repeated it there. “Racist humor” is an example of racism, not humor. That letter was not “satirical”, it was “racist”. Period. Calling it “satirical” gives it some level of credibility which is not its due. Racists quite often display their racism through humor, and claiming they “were just joking” has always been their defense. The truth is that they, almost to a person, are not joking. They are actually displaying their racism for all to see.

    • Awwww, it’s so cute…Mummy & Daddy just drove up in their minivan with a big U-Haul trailer behind it, and college kid following them in a shiny new graduation present. Thank goodness this kid won’t be without his flat-screen hi-def teevee machine while he’s living the hard life of a college stoodint.

  45. That too Wayne but if you don’t have a permanent address you can’t vote. Just like it’s almost impossible to get any kind of government assistance without a permanent address. The homeless are invisible to Republicans.

  46. Yes, Zooey, I did. Wouldn’t be the first wagon I’ve fallen off. And why shouldn’t I? After all, that’s what my name means. “Wagon”. So I can get on them and off them whenever I want. 😆

    But I love Jane’s comment about McConnell going back into this shell now. 😆

  47. Shayne,

    I’ve wondered about that. If you “reside” in the streets, are you still a resident of the state in which those streets are located? The Constitution says that we are citizens of the United States “and of the state where [we] reside.” If you live on the street, are you still a citizen of that state? Because citizens have the right to vote, not land owners.

  48. Oh for pete’s sake, it’s a card game. One of the few 3 handed ones I could think of. Guess you have to be from the Midwest.

  49. Thank you, Zooey. I’m glad I found the right time to “re-visit” TP. I am surprised at how many votes up I’ve gotten. More than the number of people who posted after me. (I don’t count the trolls. Who does?)

    I am debating how I will handle any direct attention to or from the trolls. I may ignore them, or I may decide to be , shall we say, less polite than is my norm. 😉

  50. There’s legislation to block, whining about the stimulus to do, lobbyists to take money from, a war to start in Iran and frame Obama for it. I’m just swamped.

    Prince Humperdink? And you call yourself a fan of the movie?

  51. Wayne, it actually didn’t start out as a PB reference but once I started listing all the ‘important’ things to do, it just slid right out.

    I almost finished it with “and if I didn’t have health care to kill, what would I have?

  52. Wayne I think the homeless are technically allowed to vote if they are registered out of a homeless shelter. All I know is I moved about two blocks a month before Ronald Reagan won the first time when I lived in Chicago and somehow when I got to the polls I wasn’t allowed to vote. Supposedly you’re allowed to register at a homeless shelter but who knows. And in the states where you need an ID to vote that can be difficult to obtain as a homeless person.

  53. Martha V. says:

    Dr. William Hammesfahr was contributory at the trial to save Terri’s life where liberal fascists were attempting to eugenically end her life in the name of their atheistic, progressive god. Get your facts straight, Frugalchariot.

    If that isn’t the perfect demonstration of an idiot who has no idea what the words he uses mean, I don’t think it would be easy to find a better one.

  54. Wayne, it is sort of fun to read the way the nematodes torture the language when they try to appear smart. Its that Palin influence.

  55. You all didn’t just fall off the wagon, you jumped off it grinning and tore deserving trolls a couple of new ones! I can’t stop enjoying it.

  56. “atheistic, progressive god”

    There is a strange sort of poetry to this idiocy. One has to ask, would a progressive god not believe in god? And if God doesn’t believe in God, where does that leave those who believe in God?

  57. “atheistic, progressive god”

    That must have been what the Romans and Greeks referred to as the ‘unknown’ God: the God who doesn’t believe in God!!

  58. This retro thing is getting out of hand. The Tea Potty’s latest schtick to bring back apartheid is just pathetic. I guess its what we get when we remove the thinking part of creative thinking.

  59. “America will remain a white anglo-saxon protestant country the way the founding fathers intended it to be.”

    They used to say the same thing in South Africa. How did that work out for them?

  60. She brought it home in sixth! Not a wheel wrong all day, including a green flag pitstop! In street circuit racing there is little margin for error, because concrete walls and armco barrier line the track. De Silvestro was ninth, for her best finish in her Indycar career, and she made no mistakes either. Simona started 21st, improving 12 places.

    Milka Duno was again asked to park it by Indycar, because she was four seconds slower than the next slowest car in the race. She finished 26th. I don’t know what’s wrong with Milka, but I think it’s time to try a different driver. If the results still aren’t there, then we’ll know it’s the team.

  61. BnF:

    “atheistic, progressive god”

    That must have been what the Romans and Greeks referred to as the ‘unknown’ God: the God who doesn’t believe in God!!

    I’ve long called myself a Non-theist. When someone asks me how is that different from an atheist, I explain to them that an atheist is one who doesn’t believe in God, and that a Non-theist understands that there is not only no god in which to believe, there’s also no god in which to NOT believe.

    The puzzled look is amusing. Actually I borrowed the term from the crusty old environmentalist, Edward Abbey who wrote, in Desert Solitaire, “God? … who the hell is He? … Why confuse the issue by dragging in a superfluous entity? Occam’s razor. Beyond atheism, nontheism.”

  62. “This retro thing is getting out of hand. The Tea Potty’s latest schtick to bring back apartheid is just pathetic.”


    on that note:

    Happy 92nd Birthday to Nelson Mandela!

    Advocating for equality this man spent over two decades in prison!

  63. frugal, the Pemnic ribs were great but I wish I had had the mangoes for the sauce. The leftovers are going to be the centerpiece of a red beans and rice dish today.

  64. So what kind of ‘theism is it if you believe that God has the same neuroses/psychoses as you do?


    frugal – I believe in string theory so where does that place me? Is there a term for that?

    Physicist. 😉

  65. Theism and deity worship is a handy thing. Right now we have a surprising number of Americans proudly proclaiming they follow an autocratic, war mongering, homophobic god who has no use for poor people.

    And since they haven’t been struck by lightning, they must be right.

    The part that bothers me is why do they always pick deities who like such bad things?

  66. “What sort of stoner came up with the s’mores concept?”

    Really db, toasted marshmallows are the perfect food all by themselves. They didn’t need augmenting.

  67. Maybe there is a potential market of self righteous volvo nitwits for cruelty free pastured antibiotic free graham crackers

  68. Any troll who wishes to discuss the Framers’ intent need to be directed to two places in the U S Constitution:

    Article V The Congress, whenever two thirds of both Houses shall deem it necessary, shall propose Amendments to this Constitution, or, on the Application of the Legislatures of two thirds of the several States, shall call a Convention for proposing Amendments, which, in either Case, shall be valid to all Intents and Purposes, as Part of this Constitution, when ratified by the Legislatures of three fourths of the several States, or by Conventions in three fourths thereof, as the one or the other Mode of Ratification may be proposed by the Congress; Provided that no Amendment which may be made prior to the Year One thousand eight hundred and eight shall in any Manner affect the first and fourth Clauses in the Ninth Section of the first Article; and that no State, without its Consent, shall be deprived of its equal Suffrage in the Senate.


    Amendment IX The enumeration in the Constitution, of certain rights, shall not be construed to deny or disparage others retained by the people.

    Your rights are not simply those listed in this Constitution. And if you don’t like the way we set something up, you can change it. Those guys just don’t seem to understand that.

  69. Cats r Flyfishn
    July 18, 2010 at 12:48 pm

    frugal – I believe in string theory so where does that place me? Is there a term for that?

    I think terms like ‘intelligent’ and ‘curious’ and ‘seeking’ might work. I think string theory is fascinating too, but I’m not quite there yet (understatement of the decade) in understanding it yet. Might be too old to ever get it, actually. But still …. Beats Genesis.

  70. With all respect String Theory is losing favor it seems as a potential unifying theorem it seems. Sort of like gaia did…. Still the gaian deal was nice to think about…

  71. Timing is everything:

    89 Hot Tea says:

    Question for liberals: If the IRS shut down every business in America and put a lien on every last income stream just to get their cut, would you still support its existence?

    I could answer this one right off the bat but I’d like to give you all a chance to explain yourselves.
    July 18th, 2010 at 4:12 pm

    99 Eugene Debs sponsored by the Church of the presumptuous assumption says:

    Since business taxes accrue ONLY to profit the only way there are liens put on businesses is if they have been CHEATING on their taxes that is STEALING from the society that made such an investment in thier ability to make money. How incredibly stupid and brainwashed would you have to be to take seriously HotTeabagTraitors ignorant question?
    July 18th, 2010 at 4:19 pm

    100 Martha V. says:

    89 I’ll answer that. If we shut down the IRS the hard working and intellignet would the live like royalty. The rest? Swept down the drain of ignominity where they belong.

    July 18th, 2010 at 4:20 pm

  72. Hooda — yep, the mango sauce is “made” (it was an accidental happenstance) for the Pemnic Rub. Discovered it at a USFS campground in the woods near Flagstaff AZ. Had the mango sauce and some ribs plus a shaker of Pemnic for making chili etc. Pondered it a bit and did the 3-2-1 thing, tried it, and bang-zoom!

    Saw some good mangoes here not long ago, and if they’re available here, 25 miles from the nearest stoplight, I’d think they should be showing up almost everywhere. Keep your eyes peeled.

  73. frugal, they were just too green. A couple of days to ripen and they’d have been fine. Cept I was cooking yesterday.

  74. db, the marsh mallow is actually an organic thing that has since been usurped by the modern confection. Just as milk chocolate has snuck by real chocolate.

  75. As a general rule I try not to shill products but the Oxo mango cutter is sort of like the microplane. Every kitchen should have one

  76. While a few of the ‘founding fathers’ may have been reasonably altruistic in their intentions, I still think the US was established to give us the right and power to do everything Euro royalty was doing without giving the king a cut.

    And I don’t include Mr. Jefferson in the altruistic crowd.

  77. Seems, they used to be ‘organic’

    Originally, however, marshmallows were made from the root sap of the marsh mallow (Althaea officinalis)

    Now: (it does not sound very tasty)

    solution is formed by dissolving sugar and corn syrup in water and boiling it. Egg whites and/or gelatin is mixed with the sugar solution. Then the ingredients are heated in a cook kettle to about 240°F (115°C). The resulting mixture is passed through a strainer to remove extraneous matter.
    2 In the pump, the mixture is then beaten into a foam to two or three times its original volume. At this stage, flavoring can be added.

  78. Then db, you should know that the root of the marsh mallow when roasted is the precursor of the spun sugar version we suffer from today.

  79. I’ve always found it interesting that the birth of our nation was instigated by northern mercantile interests yet the first 50 years or so was dominated by southern agrarian interests.

    I’ve always felt the South believed they could win the Civil War because of this. What they lost sight of was agrarian interests were waning by the mid 19th century to be replaced by manufacturing.

  80. The mango season in the Northern hemisphere ranges from June to August, depending on the variety. In the Southern hemisphere, the season is from January to March. Mangoes are available in groceries for about two months after the season ends. In essence, that means that mangoes should be available for all months except March and December.

    Clementines follow a similar cycle except it is offset to 7 months earlier. If you have never eaten a clementine, you have not lived! Avoid the ones from Israel as they tend to be seeded from cross-pollination.

    • Z, he’s certainly a dumbf–k.

      Srsly. Now a national sales tax is a good thing, and certainly not THEFT — even though he previously stated that all taxes were theft — and that all sales taxes are based on choice.

      Yeah, right. I pay 6% on all purchases, INCLUDING FOOD. Hey, there’s a diet plan, right? Choose to stop eating.

  81. Late to the party and struggling with my laptop keyboard (kitten pried the spacebar off; might be reparable at Best Buy tomorrow.)

    String theory was a colossal mistake in physics insofar as it substituted unverifiable mathematical abstractions for empirical evidence. It essentially turned entire physics departments into math zombies shuffling down their academic hallways moaning, “Branes.”

    (There are some 4 or more wholly irreducible mathematical representations (the so-called “branes”) of the multiple underlying string theories that are impossible to distinguish by empirical test. This is pretty catastrophic for a supposedly scientific theory. This is not even bad science since, at this point, it is not science at all. Rather, it is bad metaphysics, for which I have even less patience. Especially since its enthusiasts have neither the sense nor good manners to acknowledge it as such.)

  82. The robber baron typically opposed unionization, as this would cost more money. So his money was often made on the backs of the suffering. Further, excess amounts of money from the robber baron could usually quell controversy or media attention if needed.

    If you look at the Robber Barons, many of them in the 1880s tried to cultivate the image of the generous philanthrophist…Andrew Carnegie especially espoused the Social Gospel…saying that one had a responsibility to society if he made all that money…Of course his conduct towards his workers belied his rhetoric, but his careful management of his image lives on today…

  83. I’ve always felt the South believed they could win the Civil War because of this. What they lost sight of was agrarian interests were waning by the mid 19th century to be replaced by manufacturing.

    The South had the internal lines of supply and could easily exploit that against an expected enemy that had nowhere near the resources of the British Empire, while at the same time they could expect various alliances that might actually include Great Britain. But the continuation of slavery in the South eliminated that latter possibility while the invention of the railroad negated the former.

  84. His main idea was that organizations could not be trusted to distribute any of the money they receive through charity and that it was the responsibility of the philanthrophist to put his money into motion…

  85. I always find it interesting that someone will say they can’t stand liberals, yet spend their entire day on a liberal blog with liberals.

  86. Plus, sales taxes are about the most regressive form of taxation possible.

    Property is a social construct, and as such cannot possibly claim priority over the persons and societies that make and license that construction.

    • Absolutely, Gary. The richest person in Idaho pays the same 6 cents on the dollar for his trolly of groceries as the poorest family or elderly person. That 6% is a much greater portion of the poor family’s income than it is for the rich. I find it disgusting.

  87. I don’t think I would even want to be super-rich. I’m enjoying the really nice all-cotton supersized dish towel I bought yesterday a whole lot more for having considered the purchase for months. Once one’s needs are met, what joy would there be in accumulating vast piles of stuff. It makes perfect sense to me to tax all income above enough to live a decent life at a higher rate.

  88. Cats r Flyfishn, I am well aware that not all the boomers gave it to everyone else not only dry, but without the common courtesy of a reach-around. I do think it is fair to say an awful lot of them sure did though, judging by the “Reagan Revolution” and other assorted stupidity.

    I think maybe you meant viciously, but I am laughing here because viscously would actually mean ‘with plenty of lubrication’!

    I was actually writing a note to remind me to get some PTFE spray lube right before I posted it, so I am claiming Freudian slip there.

  89. zxbe
    July 18, 2010 at 2:39 pm
    I always find it interesting that someone will say they can’t stand liberals, yet spend their entire day on a liberal blog with liberals.

    These are the same clowns that say they can not stand gays, then get caught trying to play an undercover $20 to let them blow him.

  90. Er, pay even. Although with conservative cocksuckery, there tends to be a lot of mixing of business with pleasure.

    Though I am sorry for my horrible typos today.

  91. I’m noticing a trend. The people (conservatives/Republicans, usually) who most frequently describe something as “constitutional” or “unconstitutional” will NEVER (far as I know) cite chapter and verse as to where exactly the issue of the moment appears. Doesn’t matter if they’re in Congress or a TP troll (assuming there’s a difference) — there’s never a response. Hot TreaTode apparently is the latest in a very long line.

  92. Judging by that quote in this thread, I am assuming hunt has yet another nick. I am not sure though as I could not bring myself to look at 16+ hours a day of someone making an ass of themselves for the sake of it.

  93. “Question for liberals: If the IRS went to your house, drilled out one of your eyes, and had sexual congress with your skull through the dead eye socket while urinating on the corpses of your family members and forcing you to watch Ben Affleck romantic comedies, would you still support them, libtards?

    I could answer this one right off the bat but I’d like to give you all a chance to explain yourselves.

    In your face, when I am not cowering”

  94. frugal: I’m noticing a trend. The people (conservatives/Republicans, usually) who most frequently describe something as “constitutional” or “unconstitutional” will NEVER (far as I know) cite chapter and verse …

    Indeed. That’s often the tell-tale sign that they’re just reciting crap they heard on hate radio.

  95. Official: Seep Found Near Well

    A federal official said Sunday that scientists are concerned about a seep and possible methane seen near BP’s busted oil well in the Gulf of Mexico.

  96. So remember all the fuss about the New Black Panther Party?

    Well turns out that it’s more of the same ole bullcrap from Republicans…

    Bush ally: Black Panther story a ‘fantasy’ to ‘topple Obama’

    A Bush administration civil rights appointee says the conservative media uproar over allegations the Justice Department is protecting the New Black Panther Party from voter-intimidation prosecution is a “fantasy” designed to oust Attorney General Eric Holder and harm the Obama administration.

  97. Not to side-track the conversation, but this happened to be on the radio a short while ago. It was the first time I’d ever heard these particular pieces. I found them very enjoyable. Not quite as depressing as other Satie stuff I’d heard, this definitely had more of a mystical air to it. Anyway, again sorry for the digression. Enjoy.

  98. Haven’t had the opportunity, nor time visit TP.

    If the new troll name is hunt:

    one sure way to flush it out: dbadass starts posting.

    The fake ‘dr’ is so damn jealous of dbadass’ intelligence that he’ll not miss an opportunity to show its true colors.

  99. At first I thought I ‘heard’ a linguistic similar to vonearwigs, but there was no overt Obama hatred, no “Barry,” no blatant racism so I dropped the notion. And he wouldn’t move from the IRS theme; he’s been audited recently, obviously. Not Robosleaze, I don’t think. Dirtygrass? I dunno, he just ‘sounded’ familiar somehow.

    Maybe it’s just the same dumb from a fresh nematode. Hard to tell.

  100. “All trolls are one troll — it’s easier that way”

    Sounds like an old John Denver song:

    “And all flowers are but one flower…”

    “And all trees are but one tree…”

    Something like that.

  101. *waves*

    No way to catch up…our power was out most of the weekend, so I’m horribly behind. At least the AC’s working again! I just wish I didn’t have to go to work tomorrow. 😦

    Off to try to read a bit now.

  102. Copyright? Laziness?

    I’m more inclined to think the latter than the former. But these are all uploaded by fans so the lolz folks might have to do the actual work and coding.

  103. Hah! I love Though the guy in the urinal is pretty gross.

    The polar bear and raptor rock, though. 😀

    Geez. TP looks nuts today. And a new (old?) troll besides? So behind….

  104. That’s a good one, Zooey.

    Ick…skunk actually smells good in moderation, but skunks aren’t usually very moderate. 😛

    Well, I suppose I should go to bed…I’m beat, and Monday approaches. Nitey!

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