Sunday Roast: Do you believe in the Constitution, or don’t you?

Cenk Uygur filled in for Ed Schultz last week, and he had a few things to say about religious freedom in America.  Conservatives claim to value religious freedom and hold dear our Constitution more than anyone else in this country — while at the same time claiming that the Islamic community and prayer center a few blocks from Ground Zero should not be allowed BECAUSE THEY’RE MUSLIMS.

It’s not merely that they’re inconsistent, or that they’re hypocrites, they are simply racists and religious bigots.  In their tiny minds, Christians are more equal than everyone else because…well, they’re Christians.  Like Cenk said, Eric Rudolph and Scott Roeder are fundamentalist Christians who murdered people in the name of their religion.  We all know what that means, right?  No new Christian churches will be built in America!!  Yay!

Hardly.  Because 19 fundamental Muslims took over and crashed four airliners on that terrible day, killing almost 3000 Americans (and foreign nationals, I might add), the religious right claims that all of Islam is bad; they are all terrorists.  But when it comes to fundamentalist Christian terrorists, the fundies cry and snivel that Rudolph and Roeder don’t represent them and their views — why are we blaming THEM!?  Why, why!!?

Because, according to these conservative bible-hugging fundamentalists, these lovers of parts of the Constitution, in a land where they proudly claim everyone is equal and has equal opportunity, American Muslims just don’t rate; they are not quite as equal as the rest of us.

This is our LATE daily open thread — enjoy.

60 thoughts on “Sunday Roast: Do you believe in the Constitution, or don’t you?

  1. It’s always struck me as interesting that conservatives love the 2nd amendment because it, in part, provides a check on intrusive government yet can say with a straight face that the government telling a woman what she can do with her body isn’t instrusive. Equally ironic, the liberals are often all about a woman’s body not being the domain of the government yet so often oppose the 2nd amendment.

    Politicians, I think, genuinely care less about the constitution and more about their own agenda, wherever or whatever that may place them on the spectrum. I suspect these conservatives care a lot less about Islam personally, but they see a hot-button issue that can be exploited for a LOT of votes.

  2. I’m good with the Constitution, as amended. If I could change one thing it would be the second amendment (which I think has long been misinterpreted anyway), find a way to (a) register ALL guns, and (b) mandate an IQ/sanity test before purchase. I would also mandate a license be carried whenever the gun was being carried, also that every gunowner be insured in case he or she caused damage or death.

    Kinda like owning/driving a car these days. Gun ownership may be considered a right, but with a right goes responsibility, something few gunowners (at least in my experience) are willing to live up to.

    I’d probably also strengthen the first amendment just a little, maybe add a ‘freedom from’ guarantee in addition to freedom of. Wouldn’t mind seeing a clause that says corporations aren’t people, plus one that somehow disallows blatant lying as part of free speech.

    Or, we could get around almost all of the above by simply adding an amendment that the Republican Party itself, or anything that resembles it, is unconstitutional. Might be easier.

  3. Saladin – I visited your blog and I have a great deal of respect for anyone that can fast all day especially when you are around other people that are eating. Yesterday, we went to a Middle East Restaurant for lunch. It was empty except for us. The owner made us a delicious lunch and knowing the makeup of the neighborhood (a Mosque one block away and another Middle Eastern restaurant across the street), we assumed that he was fasting. Both of these restaurants are closed on Fridays around lunch time. I admired the fact that he could cook for us this wonderful meal and yet maintain his fast until sundown. This would be very difficult for me to do.

  4. Most liberal types I know are not against the 2nd Amendment gun issue. As frugal states, they are against the abuse of the privilege. Myself, I think the guns rights crowd would shit bricks if the well regulated militia portion were to be enforced. You can have guns as long as you participate in said militia.

  5. Yeah, hooda, that’s what I meant by ‘misinterpreted.’ I too have no problem with gun ownership, but when the point is reached where, say, a hundred million or more people own guns and a solid 20% of them are obviously certifiable, well, I don’t like the feeling I get. I don’t think Jefferson would like it either.

  6. The only real gun collector I know is one of my best friends and is a completely sane and intelligent person. Obsessive, yes, just like every other collector I’ve ever known. He’s got a gun safe big enough to hold the lot of them (which is, indeed, a lot), and any burglar who tried to swipe the guns would need a forklift.

    He’s also not planning to overthrow the government.

  7. As an aside, it occurs to me that I have more Muslim friends than bible thumpers. Two Muslims and zero thumpers. Hadn’t thought of that till I read the last paragraph of the subject essay above.

  8. I have been having an interesting exchange with, the folks at LGF are telling me, is Robert Spencer who, along with Queen of the Harpies, Pamela Geller, has started the Stop Islamization of America group. They are helping to spread the lies about the Park 51 project.

    To tell you the truth, I’m actually quite surprised that he is even answering me at all. And from his Blackberry, no less. (I have received three replies so far, and am awaiting my fourth. I would not be surprised if this exchange becomes the subject of one of their blog posts there. If it does, have we got a story for here. 🙂 )

    • Wayne, I don’t think we should wait to see if your exchange with those nuts becomes a topic on their blog. TheZoo should steer this boat. Just my opinion, of course.

  9. One of the salesmen I work with tried circulating a petition to stop a law that would require similar tests and registration requirements on guns to those we have on cars. Passing a safe handling test, reporting where said item was to be housed and requiring a background check.

    I asked him when he was going to circulate a similar petition on vehicle ownership and he stormed off in a huff.

  10. No, they don’t really love the constitution, because they don’t understand that it not only defines the limits and shape of government, but also makes inviolate the rights of a minority who would otherwise suffer the tyranny of the majority.
    I’m pretty embarassed by the whole mosque thing, I can’t believe people actually argue against it on the grounds that Saudi Arabia does not permit similar freedom of religion. When did so many americans decide that we need to be more like Saudi Arabia? What does that say about the legacy of 9/11 and the success of the terrorists in acheiving a victory?

    • That is disgusting, Outstanding.

      Just your typical “born again christian” who bears no resemblance to any real Christian, and an example of how the “free market” flourishes. Ugh.

      I bought eggs today, and now I’m all nervous.

  11. I really detest factory farming. If someone wants to point a serious finger at a major reason for the decline of America as a society, the slow demise of family farms in favor of factory operations is a big one.

  12. In advance of next weekend’s scheduled Glenn Beck desecration of Martin Luther King’s “I have a dream,” here are two worthwhile reads. The first is a March, 2010 essay on Consortium News by Gary G. Kohls, M.D., entitled King’s Prophetic Words of Peace. In it he discusses the speech by Martin Luther King in New York on April 4. 1967 — one year to the day prior to King’s assassination. Kohl quotes King:

    “…We must move past indecision to action. We must find new ways to speak for peace and justice throughout the developing world – a world that borders on our doors.

    “If we do not act we shall surely be dragged down the long, dark and shameful corridors of time reserved for those who possess power without compassion, might without morality and strength without sight.”

    That is, I think many of us could agree, the point we have reached today.

    Kohl also observes that “In hearing the speech, some of King’s followers understood that he was, most likely, signing his own death warrant by denouncing so forcefully the war crimes that the U.S. military was committing daily in the killing fields of Vietnam.”

    They were undoubtedly right. Don’t cross the M.I.C. and figure on getting away with it.

    The two URLs:


    The King Speech:

  13. I guess you can’t at school Zooey, but y’all need to get your own chickens. It’s easy to keep them and 3 would supply 2 people.

  14. If the righties insist that Park51 project be moved, why don’t they also insist that Beck move his rally?

    Speaking of which, I don’t hear much chatter about the Beck rally. Of course I don’t follow right-wing hate media very closely, but one would think we’d hear more about it just as spillover from those media outlets?

    I personally can’t fathom that it will be a very big turnout.

  15. Just did a check at DC, near the Lincoln Memorial, check-in 8/27, check-out 8/29. Tons of rooms in all prices ranges came up. One would think, if the hype were to be believed, that they’d all be sold out.

  16. I think someone on TP — the latest incarnation of Pee5 maybe — mentioned that all the hotels in DC were sold out, or close to it. Gee. Imagine it. Pee5 spouting an untruth.

    Personally, I’d like to see about ten people show up and then watch how Fox turns them into several hundred thousand. Hint: watch the trees in the film. If they’re orange or leafless, it ain’t Aug. 28, and if they’re in black-and-white it ain’t 2010!

  17. zxbe, I think they are going to be sleeping on the Armey buses. Checking the portapotty vendors might give a better picture. Or the hot dog vendors.

  18. Good call zxbe. I haven’t heard any chatter at all about the rally, other than some gibberish on the TP threads from the usual idiots. The Washington Post is calling it Beck/Palin rally and reports that they’ve finally gotten their permit. And it looks like Ted Nugent won’t be there after all. And no march, just a rally. With no signs.

    Gosh, I wish I could go.

    • From Juan Cole:

      Evangelist (and hateful bigot) Franklin Graham said this weekend that President Obama was ‘born a Muslim’ because, he said, Islam is transmitted through the father just as Judaism is transmitted through the mother.

      Presumably it is this sort of thinking that has led an increasing number of Americans to believe, incorrectly, that Obama is a Muslim.

      Graham as usual is not only hateful but also plain wrong. The Talmudic rule that one is a Jew by virtue of having a Jewish mother has been responsible for imagining the Jewish people as a race as well as a religion. (They are not actually a race, of course, and most Jewish women are descended from a Gentile ancestor).

      Hello? Religion is not genetic, no matter what your family tries to get you to believe. Although, many people are born jackasses.

  19. hooda, any nonparticipants will be counted as participants and the only news coverage will be Fox. You think they’ll run video of a non-existent crowd?

    A big old thunderstorm and downpour would be perfect. I’ll go ask Ceiling Cat that it be done.

  20. I bought eggs today, and now I’m all nervous.

    Zooey, not to worry – this FDA is so slow to respond that it seems a majority of the contaminated eggs have already been consumed – way before the recall.

    Chances are pretty good the eggs you just purchased should be ok. Or at least not part of that ‘recall’.

  21. I know exactly where my eggs come from, and I’ve known the hens since they were peeps. The new girls are producing cute little eggs and throwing a lot of double yolks; some of them are squeezing out full-size eggs but the yolks in all of them are much smaller than the older hens’.

    These are hens that sit on my friend’s lap and eat from his hand. Happiest goddamn hens in the world, IMO.

  22. Good idea hooda. Although I’m not quite sure how to verify those.

    But I did check the DC police for any advisories. Judging from past events, they’ll post advisories a couple of days ahead. (These are road closures, parking problems, etc.)

    I also did a search looking for available seats on the bus to the 8/28 rally. Doesn’t seem to be any centralized effort (that I could find) with local bagger operations doing this for themselves. A spot check makes it seem that if I still wanted to go there are seats available from a variety of cities. Although one said seats were filling up faster than than the National Debt Clock. Ah, right-wing humor.

  23. I’m missing House of Roberts run down on the Sunday talking heads show – and the racing circuit recap…

    House. Oh, House – where ye be?

  24. When the teabaggers did have a big rally last year(?) they whined afterward that WMATA didn’t put on extra bus and train service for them. Uh, public transit? You know, the sort of government program y’all hate?

  25. Sometimes I get double-yolkers so big I feel very sorry for the hen. You eat the fresh ones for a while and you literally can’t eat the store eggs ever again. They look grey.
    I’d go to the moron’s rally if I didn’t need to do farmer’s market Saturday. I’m curious as to how they plan to “restore honor” when it seems to me they are the ones most detrimental to our national honor.

  26. Checking Becky’s site, seems like there are plenty of buses available.

    I’d heard there are no signs allowed at the event. On the event’s official Facebook page, they claim the mission is:

    The mission of the rally is to recognize our First Amendment rights and honor the service members who fight to protect those freedoms.

    But no signs allowed? That’s an infringement on free-speech.

    But, get this. Firearms (real or simulate) are not allowed? WTF? The righties want to be able to bring guns anywhere in the country… except to their own rally apparently.

    The remaining list of exclusions:

    NO signs (political or otherwise) as they may deter from the peaceful message we are bringing to Washington.

    • Firearms (either real or simulated)
    • Ammunition
    • Explosives of any kind (including fireworks)
    • Knives, blades, or sharp objects (of any length)
    • Mace and/or pepper spray
    • Helium balloons
    • Sticks or poles
    • Pocket or hand tools, such as “leatherman”
    • Packages
    • Large bags (anything larger than a backpack)
    • Duffle bags
    • Suitcases
    • Weapons of any kind
    • Aerosols
    • Laser pointers
    • Animals other than service/guide dogs
    • Structures (i.e tents)
    • Alcoholic beverages
    • Other items that may pose a threat to the security of the event

    Sounds like a pretty dull party for the tea partiers.

  27. The general awareness of Salmonella came about many decades ago – by of all things –
    box turtles (I’m uncertain of TtT species so this is not aimed at him). We’d love the turtle no matter what…

  28. ZXBE, correct me if I’m wrong, but isn’t it still illegal to either carry openly or concealed in D.C.? There was that idiot open carry rally about a year ago in a park on the Virginia side of the Potomac, in view of the Washington monument, where about fifty nuts showed up, but I’m pretty sure it was held there because that’s one place where to do so is not illegal.

  29. I stand corrected, the recent SCOTUS decision didn’t apply to open/conceal carry. Only pertained to handguns being covered by 2nd amendment.

  30. zxbe, it was a district court. The DC government is appealing to SCOTUS.

    What is the status of the appeal on the hand gun ban
    The D.C government will petition the Supreme Court to hear its appeal of the federal circuit court’s decision to overturn the city’s 30-year-old handgun ban. Mayor Adrian Fenty’s office says the city’s ban on most handguns can and should be defended. In March, a three-judge panel of the U.S. Court of Appeals sided with six district residents who sued to be able to keep their guns for self defense. The decision repealed much of the city’s handgun ban, but the ban stays in place through the appeals process. D.C. Attorney General Linda Singer plans to file a 30-day extension Monday so the request can get to the high court by Sept. 5. (from

    The ordinance, from 1975, prohibited the ownership of handguns, other than those grandfathered in, and required that residents keep their long guns and handguns unloaded and equipped with trigger locks.

    There appears to be an existing carry permit process, but it also seems to be limited to law enforcement personnel, security guards, etc.

  31. The problem with gun laws is not the laws. It is the enforcement of them. The only problem with current legislation that I am aware of is the show loophole. Anyone selling 50+ guns at shows every months is a vendor not a private citizen selling a gun to another private citizen.

    Everything else comes down to a lack of will to enforce rules. Kind of like how last time I checked, Kentucky is the only state that sends domestic abuse data to NICS like every state is supposed to . Since this is so people with violent domestic abuse can not buy guns they are not legally allowed to have in the first place, a 2% compliance rate is not acceptable.

  32. An irony: this coming week’s readings for my online Ethics class include Plato’s Crito and Martin Luther King’s Letter from a Birmingham Jail. While folks are instructed to be careful and non-confrontational, I still think there’s a better than even chance that some question(s) will come up about Beck’s planned hypocrisy. (It is unlikely to come up in those words until I respond.)

  33. The women that fought for our right to vote were confronted in even worse ways than the man in the white hat at the “anti-mosque, I’m ignorant” rally. They were physically attacked by men in the crowd.

  34. I followed gummitch’s link concerning the anti-mosque protest. Do you folks remember the protests in parts of the islamic world over the Danish cartoon of the prophet? How most of us saw them as crazy cultists who were overreacting, a mob bent on violent protest. It occurs to me that that is exactly how the bigots among us have made us appear to the rest of the world.

  35. It occurs to me that that is exactly how the bigots among us have made us appear to the rest of the world.

    I suspect the members of that mob in NY were among the loudest to condemn the actions of the Muslims during the cartoon incident. But, I’m sure, they’d maintain “it’s okay when we do it.”

Leave a Reply

Please log in using one of these methods to post your comment: Logo

You are commenting using your account. Log Out /  Change )

Google photo

You are commenting using your Google account. Log Out /  Change )

Twitter picture

You are commenting using your Twitter account. Log Out /  Change )

Facebook photo

You are commenting using your Facebook account. Log Out /  Change )

Connecting to %s