The Watering Hole – August 27: First thing we do-kill all the lawyers

Then what?

Ever wonder why Corporations, with their armies of attorneys, villify plaintiff’s lawyers?

Would this country really be better off if we abolished all lawyers?

This is our daily open thread — you can make your case and impress everyone in your briefs.

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38 thoughts on “The Watering Hole – August 27: First thing we do-kill all the lawyers

  1. If we did that, then the politicians would have to be just regular people. Maybe not a bad idea, but you might just get some teaparty type laws?
    See Prop 8, CA…
    Disclaimer: I was prelaw PoliSci up until my junior year at UCSB, then looked around and was horrified by the scumbags who were my classmates…

  2. Good Morning, BnF and all..I would have to say 50/50 in keeping all lawyers…What I would like to see is the courts moving faster in emergency cases…It takes months here and across the nation to get any kind of justice and in lots of cases years, like Exxon…

    My personal, recent association with lawyers and the justice system has been both blessed by angels and doomed by evil attorneys and the court system…

    Nothing has changed, nothing is better with the exception of total exaustion of funds, health and sanety….Even with a tiny win the opposition seems to do as they please and not what the judge orders…Back to an old comment by a good attorney many years ago, ” There is no justice, Sharon, only points of law”…

    Sorry I have been absent, been MIA every where except working on my junk so I can escape…Peace, Blessings & Justice to you all…

  3. Thurgood Marshall was a lawyer. Having spent my working life as a defense contractor, I’m not about to villify an entire profession. I do wish everyone had equal access to justice and to the committed lawyers that work to acheive it. As it is, it often seems Lady Justice is a whore.

  4. Good morning all.

    A couple of entries on my blog. One about Fox math, where 300,000 will be attending Beck’s rally, and 450,000 of them will be riding 8 buses from York PA. Here.

    And the other about the right-wing-only speakers at Beck’s rally. Here. Line up includes Beck, Palin, Bachmann, and Dr. Alveda King (who is pro-life, and works for a conservative think-tank in DC). Yes, she also happens to be the niece of Dr. Martin Luther King.

  5. When I was in college I had to take a lot law classes pertaining to my field.
    My primary law professor was very unusual from the stand point of being adamant about having strong ethical behavior. He was constantly placing us in scenarios whereby we had exercise ethical judgement.
    He was very disturbed by the fact that so many lawyers will not make the distinction between right and wrong only winning or losing a case.
    We struck up a long lasting friendship and as far as lawyers go, I miss him.

  6. Morning everyone–happy Friday!

    Witch, I hope you can find some resolution soon with all that’s been going on.

    I’m going to have to go to that link later. From the sound of it, I don’t think it’s something I want to look at here at work. ;-)

  7. First of all, I have a ginormous crush on Mary-Louise Parker, so perhaps y’all need to take me with a grain of salt on this. However, I love this exchange from Vanity Fair:

    Jennifer Aniston got some flack recently from Bill O’Reilly because she said it’s O.K. to be a single mother. O’Reilly went so far as to call her opinions “destructive to society.” I’m pretty sure I know the answer to this already, but as a single mother who plays a single mother on TV, do you disagree?

    I don’t even know what you’re talking about. Why is being a single mother destructive?

    I’m not sure I follow his argument. Something about the nuclear family and fathers being disrespected.

    Give me a break. He sounds like an idiot. Who is he again?

    He’s got a show on Fox News.

    That’s the right-wing channel? Well, there you go. Maybe he’s right, I don’t know. I don’t think you necessarily have to be part of a traditional nuclear family to be a good mother. A lot of children from traditional nuclear families have really unhappy childhoods, and they have dysfunctional, distant parents who don’t pay attention to them. Also, some people don’t plan on being single parents. It’s not like you’re sitting at home and thinking, “Wow, I’d really like to do this by myself. I’d love to wake up six times a night and change diapers and have nobody to help me. That’d be great!” I certainly didn’t do that.

    So you’re not buying O’Reilly’s theory that single mothers are destroying the fabric of society?

    I think that opinion is pretty narrow-minded. People like him—and I don’t even know who he is, so this is just a guess—they usually just say shit like that for attention. He probably comes from a nuclear family and didn’t get enough attention as a child.

  8. I see jwest snuck back onto TP this morning. I can’t stand the guy — I can’t tolerate bigots, and man, is he a bigot. I should shut up there, but sometimes I’m simply not able so I let it fly. With luck, TP will ban ME and then I don’t have to worry about it anymore!

  9. Hi there critters
    and best wishes to witch1 in her present travails.

    Here’s the latest on my situation:

    1) According to the TABE education test the Dept of Labor insisted we unemployees take, I have a 10th grade education—of course it only measures up to a 10th grade education so ‘acing’ it doesn’t feel like much of an accomplishment.

    2) Three weeks ago there was a job opportunity for which I was uniquely qualified (at least amongst the other candidates ) but I heard nothing more about it—until today, via an email from the “talent agent” saying she was trying to get in touch with me. Presumably this would be for a formal interview/application, but….

    3) Two days ago, with still no progress on the job front I was offered the opportunity to get on a certified Systems Administrator course ( with job placement) at no personal expense so I signed up for it because it should bring me back up to speed with current software etc.

    So now it appears I have the option of some work in the near future ( thought I still don’t know what wages are being offered) OR professional certification which should profoundly help me get a probably much better-paying job in a few months ( and I’d really rather get back into IT than go back to woodworking ) but be broke and dependent on my brother in the meantime.

    It’s absolutely bloody typical that nothing happens for weeks and then things collide together.

    I think I could argue that one factor in the perniciously stagnant job market is that some of those who still do have jobs seem to have terrible communication skills and no sense of urgency about how their actions (or in-actions) affect others.

    Anyway, that’s it for now—the schooling starts next Wednesday, I hope it isn’t actually crap as so many “business schools” often are, but if so I’ll still make maximum use of what they have to offer.

    Laters all, and have a good weekend everybody.

  10. 5th – always positive thoughts and energy sent your way.
    Thanks for keeping in touch when the opportunity presents itself.

  11. Good to hear from you 5thState. Life is strange. It does seem like everything always hits at once and it doesn’t matter whether it is good stuff or not so good stuff. Good luck to you. If you get an interview and the person interviewing you starts to talk about personal hobbies, then you are almost guaranteed the job offer.

  12. House GOP leader John Boehner is capitalizing on public’s distrust of government by blaming the bad economy on fat-cat government bureaucrats.

    the laugh of the day!!

  13. Good to read you here, 5thstate…I continue to send Blessings your way..

    Thanks all for the well wishes.

    Concerned for all our Idaho posters and the fires, do hope everyone is safe..

    Have more appointments with my guardian angel attorney’s on Tuesday..Preparing for the 2 day trial the 29 of Sept…Ugh!

    A tiny tip for all..Go on one the free sites about lost money or unrecovered items..Someone went on one of them and saw my name…I sent off the info and proof… Should be getting close to $500. in the mail in the next few weeks…These days that like a million….Happy posting….Peace, Blessings & Justice…

  14. My primary law professor was very unusual from the stand point of being adamant about having strong ethical behavior. He was constantly placing us in scenarios whereby we had exercise ethical judgement.
    He was very disturbed by the fact that so many lawyers will not make the distinction between right and wrong only winning or losing a case.

    A few years ago, some students at Harvard were told they had to complete a take home test about ethics. Several students asked (seriously) if they could have someone else take the test for them.

  15. 5th, if its any consolation the NJ Education Commisioner is whining about getting UE. Good luck in your search, my friend and keep in touch.

    Also, Happy Bday ebb.

    • SNORT

      I’m sort of flying by. Things are going on, none really good. Except maybe we have a visitor from NC. She’s 20 and I can hardly keep up with her lifestyle, so I decided to let her wing it and never mind if her mother tears me a new one, if she finds out. I have some security measures in place, however.

      witch, make it safely to your new home soon and keep us posted, I send lots of love.

      5th, I haven’t heard from the guys I had that job interview with for 4 weeks now. A nice way of saying “forget it”. I wish with all my heart that you are more lucky.

      All, I miss you guys but I have hardly any time left until I think end of next week. I crave to be back here and I promise I’ll be back as soon as I can.

    • I’m with you, gummitch. How are they raising funds? Is there an admission charge? If they’re depending solely on individual donations, they may not even pay the rally costs. Who pays then?

      Very shady.

  16. EV,
    I hope you’ll have time to watch F1 Sunday. Spa is one of my favorite tracks they race at. I’ll be pulling for Webber for you.

    • House, my tv has morphed into a radio, screen’s dead, and that’s just one of the minor annoyances in my life these days. I’ll try to watch it on the internet, if I can. Do pull for Webber he so deserves to get the championship.

      • Ok, still some time for a rant. Kids are in bed, guest is out hitting the Zurich clubs with a friend, I am too wrought up to sleep.

        Germany’s top political issue these days is nuclear reactors. Some ten years ago the then Social Democratic/Green goverment decided to phase out German nuclear reactors. The energy corporations were given a twenty year timeline to end the production of nuclear energy and replace it by more sustainable means of energy production. (for want of a better word: I know about the laws of thermodynamics saying energy cannot be produced, nevermind) This held out during the grand coalition between the Social democratic Party and Merkel’s Christian Democrats. Now Merkel has a new partner the Liberal Democrats, the corporations’ pets. Guess what. Right after the new government was formed the Energy Corps started to moan the remaining ten years wouldn’t be sufficient to guarantee Germany could produce enough electricity for the economy and private households and there was a longer timeline needed. What a surprise!!

        The reactors the industry wants to run longer have been paid by taxpayers, because when nuclear energy was the energy source of choice the sector wasn’t privatized yet. In the last years energy corporations found out it was so very convenient to make money from what was given to you, as opposed to having to invest some and then make it pay. Every additional year of production will get them huge profits. So the government said, well why not tax those profits and invest the money into renewable energy sources. That got the corporations in howling mode. The keep telling us they are only building a bridge with the existent technology into a sustainable future. They won’t fool me, nor more than 60% of the German population who want to stick to the timeline. But Merkel seems to be caving.

        If you are not bored stiff by now, you can read more here and here and here

        I want those dangerous and nasty things off the grid, asap!

          • Zooey, they are, but as nuclear energy is produced cheaply by the corporations and sold expensively they have such a market dominance they crowd out producers of solar or other alternatives, which are mostly small and medium enterprises. The Germans themselves are really buying solar panels like mad, there are many new and old houses which use them, but it is a costly investment and they stand no chance against the unholy alliance of Energy and Manufacturing Corporations who try to avoid investments in adjustments as long as possible. To think a teacher on her salary goes to the length of increasing her mortgage on the house to invest in solar and corporations who sit on billions can’t be bothered to invest part of it. It is so sick.

            Strangely, I was told when people get older they get less radical in their views and tend to get more conservative. It is the other way around with me, the more I read, the more I learn, the more radical I get. Good for them I am getting more radically peaceloving, too. But I am a mean and grumpy old hag these days.

  17. EV, a liberal grumpy old hag beats the hell out of being a conservative grumpy old hag any day!!

  18. Zxbe, good catch! 8,000 buses at 60′ per bus equals a caravan about 90 miles long!

    Now, the distance from York, PA to Washington D.C. is 92 miles.

    That means this caravan would be in total gridlock once the first bus entered D.C. traffic, and the last bus was only 2 miles out of York!

  19. Witch1,

    best wishes on a postive outcome. sorry I can’t help any more than I already have from this distance.

  20. Outstanding, I’ll beg to differ with your opinion about Lady Justice. Justicia (Roman) or Themis (Greek) hold the scales of justice – she seeks to restore balance and is often portrayed as blind to outside influences.

    Unfortunately, too many in our system of justice seek not balance, but victory – at all costs.

    Lawyers are our Advocates – often our advocates of last resort. They do battle with their intellect and analytical ability so that their clients don’t do battle with fists, knives or guns.

    That said, the law does not right every wrong. Judges do not always get it right. That’s why there are courts of appeal. Lawyers sometimes make mistakes. That’s why there’s insurance for legal malpractice.

    But some of our greatest advances as a society, some of our greatest protections against the evil men would do against their fellow men, have come about because a courageous lawyer took on a client and a cause and prevailed against all odds.

    What would the world be without lawyers? Just look to the social structure of the Dark Ages, and combine that structure with today’s technologies, giving the King that kind of unbridled power over the populace.

    [ok. I'll get off my soapbox now]

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