The Watering Hole: October 19 – Old Bread

Archeologists have discovered that bread has been part of the human diet for at least 30,000 years. I wonder how that would compare to this 12 year old (as of 2008) McDonald’s hamburger bun (the one on the left):

Actually, no examples of 30,000 year old bread exist today (Unless a McDonald’s bun that old can be located).

Another issue that comes up is that bread has been around since 24,000 years before the Heavens and the Earth.

This is our open thread. Please feel free to offer your own comments on this or any other topic.


91 thoughts on “The Watering Hole: October 19 – Old Bread

  1. Yesterday at around one PM MDT, I ate the first slice from what was, at that time, the ‘youngest’ loaf of bread on the planet, fresh from the oven and as soon as it was cool enough to slice. Delicious!

    My idiot doctor would be pissed at me if he knew I indulged. He says bread is bad, very very bad. It has calories, y’ know, and also helps your triglycerides get too high. Oh well. I can take a pill for that (which tastes terrible — I call it the anti-bread).

    30,000 years, eh? How sad for all those born before that, to never have had fresh bread!

    As for McDonald’s buns, well, the less said the better. Same with supermarket bread. My lingering question has LONG been, how can they take something so simple and screw it up so badly? I’ll never know, I guess.

  2. Good morning, Frugal. White bread is one of the worst foods, especially the kind sold in most supermarkets. The flour mills remove all the nutrition from the wheat, then they put in man made “nutrients” and preservatives in the bread batter before baking. The end product is soft and spongy so I call this sponge bread.

    Frugal – I’ll bet your bread is yummy. I have a low tolerance to wheat so I eat sprouted grain breads instead. Once the grain is sprouted, it is no longer a grain and becomes a vegetable. I must keep the bread refrigerated otherwise it will get moldy if not eaten within a few days.

    As for McDonalds, do they serve real food there or is it something that looks and tastes like food?

    If your interested in learning more about food, I recommend reading “In Defense of Food” by Michael Pollan.

    Later… got to head off to the office. Busy day ahead means a money making day 🙂

  3. Mmmmmm….bread is the best thing since, well, sliced bread. I’m not surprised that it’s one of the oldest basic staple foods. And fresh out of the oven–can’t beat that!

    I’m having a strange week so far. I spent six hours yesterday watching a couple of guys dig some holes. I get to go watch them set posts tomorrow. Do I have a fun job or what? 😛 I’ll probably spend today completing an online traffic school course for a ticket I got three months ago. It took them that long to get my case into the system–a month longer than my original court date. Our government is broken.

  4. Cats, sorry about you wheat allergy problem. I had it when I was a little guy, but fortunately overcame it somehow.

    And yep, you’re spot-on correct in your premise that mass produced ‘white’ (sponge) bread is nutritionally vapid, also flavorless. Likewise with McDonald’s buns, I’m sure. Looks like I’ll never figure out why they do that. Destined to remain a mystery I guess, but not one worth investigating.

    I was lucky; I was raised by a baker. My dad owned and ran his own bakery in a small town in southern Minnesota. My mother was hands-on in the enterprise as well, as were, at appropriate times growing up, my brother, my sister, and myself. We all did it, and we all enjoyed the experience.

    To this day I can’t let go. I have the full repertoire always close at hand — downsized for the ordinary kitchen — in recipes handwritten by my dad, also some ‘invented’ by myself over the years. I make a couple of loaves ever week or two, depending on need, depending on requests by my taste buds, by friends and family. Everything from simple white bread (with a buttermilk and egg base to improve the nutrition levels AND the flavor!) to multi-grains of all sorts, including loaves flavored with dill and with numerous other herbs. No preservatives, no additives, only the basics, adjusted to enable the final endpoint.

    A friend of fifty years, 84 yrs. old, depends on my monthly package of two loaves of whole grain raisin bread. He lives in Phoenix and the postage is nine bucks, but his continuing good health is worth it! Like he says, “Bread is the staff of life. Somebody told me that once a long time ago.” 🙂

  5. McDeathBurger buns are actually bread>?

    I’da never guessed.

    I do have an occaisional breakfast sandwich, but try to avoid all fast food burgers like the plague, which to your body, they pretty much are.

  6. Good morning everyone.

    Here in Calgary we voted for mayor yesterday in the most contested race in recent memory. The previous mayor did not run so it was wide open. We are, sadly, very conservative but the race came down to three candidates. The apparent front runner has been on city council for years and, like the previous mayor, a friend of developers. Then we had a local newswoman that quit her gig to run for mayor. She’s nice and all, but more a celebrity than a mayoral candidate. And finally we had an immigrant son of muslim faith that was a professor at a local university and a Harvard graduate.

    Great news. In a surprise victory Naheed Nanshi won! I can’t believe it.

    Now I should say that up here, Nanshi’s religion didn’t come into it one bit. He is very well spoken and seems to have won because people a) didn’t want same-old same-old and b) weren’t too sure a celebrity was the best way to go (in the 80’s we voted in a news reporter, Ralph Klein, that did awful things in our city and went on to govern the province. He wasn’t the sharpest tack in the box.)

  7. I’m impressed, dycker — sounds like in Calgary intelligence has a voice and the best candidate prevailed.

    Very “un-Amurkan” of course, but as we all down here have been told, Canadians are like that, what with their health care and all.

    Interesting how snark and reality often appear as one — ‘down here’ — in emergent wingnutistan.

  8. United Healthcare reported a 23% jump in profits.

    Here’s the first paragraph from the article, along with my own comments. 🙂

    “Insurer UnitedHealth Group Inc. said Tuesday its third-quarter profit jumped 23 percent, propelled in part by premium growth [they just raise premiums whenever they feel like it], enrollment gains [thanks to their lobbying efforts in Washington to turn the health care reform into a boon for the isurance companies] and moderate health care use [they denied a lot more claims].”

  9. dycker, please send some of that common sense voting south. We are in dire need of thinking folk to elect those who are supposed to govern.

  10. Years ago a friend of mine left about half of a Micky D shake on top of his fridge. When I came to visit him he showed me the result. It had been there about two weeks and had turned into something resembling Styrofoam.

    After that he kept it around just to see what happened to it. No green stuff grew, it just kept being styrofoam. When he moved about a year later he chucked it, still no change.

  11. Thanks frugal and ebb. City elections are quite different from provincial or national elections. I’m hoping Nenshi can do a good job for the city and then enter the next level. It would be interesting to see if the ‘thinking folk’ ,as you put it ebb, can extend that thinking. Alberta has been conservative since the 70’s. The fresh air seems better today.

  12. You can’t make this up:

    Christine O’Donnell questions separation of church and state.

    “Where in the Constitution is the separation of church and state?” O’Donnell asked him.

    When Coons responded that the First Amendment bars Congress from making laws respecting the establishment of religion, O’Donnell asked: “You’re telling me that’s in the First Amendment?”

    Her comments, in a debate aired on radio station WDEL, generated a buzz in the audience.

    “You actually audibly heard the crowd gasp,” Widener University political scientist Wesley Leckrone said after the debate, adding that it raised questions about O’Donnell’s grasp of the Constitution.


  13. I just noticed: there’s snow on the mountaintops this morning! Whoopee and yeehaw, means there’s no global warming after all!

    Trying to sound like a teabagger, but the pain is too much for me.

  14. zxbe:

    Widener University political scientist Wesley Leckrone said after the debate, adding that it raised questions about O’Donnell’s grasp of the Constitution.

    All I can say is that Wesley Leckrone is obviously one extremely polite fellow. By the grace of all the gods, ’twas he that commented on her comments and not me.

  15. lol frugal.

    Thankfully, it appears that Coons is going to win this one handily.

    Of course that means O’Donnell will take her rightful throne on Fox and Friends.

  16. “Talk about imposing your beliefs on the local schools,” she said. “You’ve just proved how little you know not just about constitutional law but about the theory of evolution.”

    Coons said her comments show a “fundamental misunderstanding” of the Constitution.

    The republican’ts truly have transported themselves to the 1950s. Believing if you ‘put a pretty face’ on it people will look at the cover and not the substance for which it stands (or doesn’t).
    I have no words – completely stunned that the likes of Palin, O’Donnell and Angle are allowed to continue stupid to the nth degree – never ever learning, making no progress on understanding the Constitution.

  17. Phoned threat to Madison, WI state capitol. Building evacuated.

    (phone threats seem to be way up lately).

  18. Can’t find any blog that’s actually discussing any substance of the AK McAdams/Murkowski debate last evening.
    TPM only mentioned the ‘you drop out’ no ‘you should drop out’ in order for one or the other to win over dimwitted Miller.

  19. In Colorado we have Ken Buck and that other idiot bigot, what’s his name … oh yeah, Tom Tancredo. My guess is that those two don’t have one complete brain between ’em, not even if we tossed in the entire mental capacity of Palin, Miller, and Christino alongside!

    I’m fearless, but that’s scary scary.

  20. What is truly scary, frugal, that these pieces of used gum get voted into office without a thought for the consequences (vote ignorance, get ignorance and city, state, country suffer).

  21. My girlfriends mother claims that Pat Boone called her personally to endorse Marco Rubio.

    I’m going to call her tonight (the gf) and tell her that John Denver called me today, Englebert Humperdink called my mom and, Neil Diamond called my dad. Tomorrow I’m going to be expecting a call from Boy George and the culture club.

    I want to believe her, I really do. I just cannot envision that Pat Boone is calling people for Marco Rubio to smooze a vote.

  22. vinyl, seems ol’ Pat’s been whoring for some time: this from Huff Po:

    Howie KleinDown With Tyranny
    Posted: November 5, 2007 09:09 PM

    Pat Boone Plays the GOP Gay Card in KY Election

    and this from July of this year:

    Blasts from the past take sides in 7th Congressional District primary
    Meanwhile, singer Pat Boone told voters he was “singing the praises of Lang Sias,” a former naval Top Gun instructor and a national guardsman

  23. Pat Boone went nuts several decades ago. He’s apparently beyond hope anymore. Wonder why it is that religion so often seems to be so totally destructive to gray matter?

  24. Wonder why it is that religion so often seems to be so totally destructive to gray matter?

    Because you have to use so little of it. I think its called atrophy.

  25. I have to admidt that I really, really, really, like Pat Boone’s “In a metal Mood” album.
    Not for his contribution but, the other artists that appear on that album are a who’s who of music greatness.
    It is scored and arranged brilliantly.
    Then again I also love a massive horn section and a big band sound.
    I consider every other thing he ever did as weak sister bullshit.

  26. A bright star of the repiggies showing what she’s made of (used gum and a broken rubber band: all completely useless)

    Ottawa tells tea-party backed candidate 9/11 hijackers didn’t come from Canada

    Angle, a tea party-backed candidate running a close race in Nevada against Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid, said “what we know is our northern border is where the terrorists came through.”

    In his note to Angle on Monday, Doer emphasized that “none of the 9/11 hijackers entered the United States from or through Canada.”

    He said extensive investigations by U.S. law enforcement authorities have established that all of the hijackers entered the U.S. directly from third countries – not Canada – with visas issued by U.S. diplomats.

  27. Crap, ebb. Does this mean we can’t invade Canada? We all know how sneaky those canucks are. Slipping over the border with their lutefisk. Shudder.

  28. hooda, gwb has shown we can invade any damn country we deem needs a good pummeling. I think it’s that imperialism or exceptionalism. Take your pick…

  29. Slipping over the border with their lutefisk. Shudder.

    If lutefisk is a sign of the invasion, we’ve already lost Minnesota.

  30. If lutefisk is a sign of the invasion, we’ve already lost Minnesota.

    See! It’s already happening! OMG, we are doomed! If I get a choice between lutefisk and tacos, I’ll take tacos! Sob.

  31. Just got this in my email:

    TriMet is prepared for President Obama’s visit to Portland Wednesday afternoon. When we are informed by the Secret Service, we will halt all MAX service as the president arrives and departs the Oregon Convention Center. During the event, MAX will not serve the Convention Center stop and the Line 6 bus stop in front of the building will be closed. We are alerting riders to expect moderate to significant delays on MAX throughout the afternoon and evening. For security reasons, we do not have any additional details about service impacts.

  32. Lutefisk. Yuk. When I was a kid it came to the grocery store in barrels and Marty, the grocer, would remove it from the brine and stack it on racks out on the sidewalk. I asked my dad (a non lutefiskian Swede) why they did that and he explained that Norwegians don’t like it until half the dogs in town have had their shot at it.

    I finally got it, probably about the time I hit 13.

  33. California borders are very porous – you can enter from “drum roll please” – Nevada!

    So come on over – we don’t have lutefisk, on a routine basis anyway
    we do have some might tasty Mexican fare.
    Taqueria Eduardo’s Numero Quatro.
    Dia de Pesca’s not too shabby

    We also have Abyssinian, Ethiopian, Japanese, even had a Nepalese restaurant for a bit.

    So come on over ~

  34. I can see it now. Shanngle is on Fox and Kilmeade asks about her ‘northern border’ comment. She replies, “It’s the liberal media. I was referring to MEXICO’S northern border, of course.”

    Kilmeade nods, says, “Ah, yes, of course.”

  35. We could secure the entire Mexican border with a couple of truck loads of lutefisk. But what will keep us safe from the Canadians?

  36. We could secure the entire Mexican border with a couple of truck loads of lutefisk. But what will keep us safe from the Canadians?

    A hockey strike

  37. I can see it now. Shanngle is on Fox and Kilmeade asks about her ‘northern border’ comment. She replies, “It’s the liberal media. I was referring to MEXICO’S northern border, of course.”

    Kilmeade nods, says, “Ah, yes, of course.”

    So Mo Atta and the gang came in across the Rio Grande, spawning ‘terror babies’ left and right as they came?

  38. I suspect Canadians know what tacos are and aren’t frightened.

    The hockey strike has possibilities. Even better would be putting kegs of American beer along the border.

  39. I was in Vancouver with my family a few years ago in a downtown Tim Hortons, and my then six-year asked me “Dad, what’s the worst thing that can happen in Canada?” (the context of the discussion was earthquakes, tidal waves and volcanoes.)

    My answer: “A hockey strike”

    The dude in the booth behind me lost his coffee up his nose… 🙂

  40. The President is coming to town because Kitzhaber, who should be a no-brainer, is in a very tight race with the GOPer basketball player.

  41. Boy, ebb, you got me. We moved here just over two years ago when Colorado went solidly for Obama, elected Udall to the Senate, when Salazar went to Interior and fairly liberal Michael Bennet was appointed to Salazar’s Senate seat. Tom Tancredo and a couple of other wingnuts were electorally retired as well. Colorado was blue. And today we’ve got Ken Buck in a tight race with Bennett and Tancredo wiping out the teabagger Maes in the race for governor, putting the pressure on the Dem Hickenlooper. And then there’s that absolutely vitriolic antiabortion proposition. It’s like we’ve been invaded by an army of disgruntled Nazi Stormtroopers.

    Go figure.

  42. There is only one sure way to scare and revolt a Canadian.

    Hand them an American beer.

  43. Terry, I am probably the only Canadian that doesn’t “do Timmy’s”. I hate coffee and the doughnuts used to be made fresh at the store. Now the doughnuts are “finished” at the store. Yuk.

    Btw, did you know Tim Horton is was hockey player that played for 24 years starting in 1949. He was killed in a car crash at age 44 in 1974 while still playing professionally.

  44. Ha Ha Hooda. Your big brand beer is pretty sad. Ours isn’t much better. It’s the small breweries, in both countries, where beer is really made.

  45. dycker is correctomundo. I’m particularly fond of Unibroue. There isn’t much of the good stuff that isn’t hoarded by the Canadians, though.

    And after years of villification, I’ve discovered that there is definitely a place for Canadian whiskey, at least some of it. Haven’t tried any of the $100/bottle versions, although I’d be happy to do so if dycker wants to send me some.

    On his tab.

  46. Not sure beer is the thing to protect borders with. Mexico has really decent beer, but yet the people-flow is this way, away from the land of Coronita to Amurka, the land of really shitty beer. Go figure.

  47. gummitch, whiskey and I don’t get along. All the hard stuff for that matter. I am a beer man. Not a leg man.

    You may go to your local liquor store and put a fine bottle on my tab. He’ll know where to find me.

  48. I wouldn’t be surprised if by the end of the week the Alaska Senate race was back to a two way one.

  49. Guess who’s subbing for Keith, now that Lawrence O’Donnell has his own show? It’s Cenk Uygur! Yes that’s right, The Young Turks have made it to prime time MSNBC! Congratulations Cenk!

  50. Not too long ago Cenk subbed for a week for either Ed Schultz or Chris Matthews, can’t remember which. He did well. Hope to see him as a regular on MSNBC one of these first days.

  51. I’d put Cenk in Matthews rerun spot, right after Ed Schultz, as a lead-in to Keith. He’d be up against Shepard Smith At Faux.

  52. Sorry to hear about your friend, Zooey. Been there, seen the same thing way too many times over the years. Hang onto the memories — they’ll last as long as you let them, and they’ll whisper to you whenever they know they’re needed.

    • Thanks, frugal. Jeff wasn’t really a friend, just someone I chatted with over the years in the work setting. He was from Georgia, and had a great accent. I used to tease him that he added at least two syllables to very word he spoke.

  53. House, I have no idea who’s on when — I refuse to pay fifty buck a month for tv when they oughtta be paying ME fifty bucks a month to even try it!

    So it works out that Shadow the Cat and I watch Keith and Rachel the morning after, plus a whole week of Ed on Sunday morning. We don’t watch Matthews more than once in a blue moon, but if Cenk took over his slot we’d be regulars.

  54. Zooey, wearing that seatbelt probably would have saved his life! A terrible loss for his family.

  55. Why is the word ‘teat’ bleeped from that vid? Have we become much more regressive/puritanical than I realized?
    The conservative states are the highest consumers of p0rn…

  56. dycker, you just killed my romantic attachment to Tim’s – ‘finished at the store’? Oh that’s sad…. I did know of the Horton hockey story. 24 years in the game…. that’s something.

  57. Jeebus, if this History and Geography information isn’t in my brain by now, I’m in serious trouble in exams tomorrow.

    How difficult can learning only 6,000 years of history and geography?!

      • Well, sorry I haven’t been sociable today — lots of studying to be done — but after tomorrow I’ll have a bit more free time through the end of the week.

        I’m off to watch some Doctor Who, and then off to bed. Hopefully I’ll be able to sleep — unlike last night.

        Goodnight, all!

  58. End of the world postponed!

    Phew – that’s a relief, I was about to blow my wedge on a carefully planned two year drunken, debauched, substance-abusing, body degrading orgy of self-destruction…..

    …. that was lucky, eh?

  59. Clarence Thomas’ wife tried to contact Anita Hill in order to seek an apology. Gee, I almost forgot about that incident!

  60. TtT, I’m certain the young turtles are quite relieved you’ve changed your plans and will be around for a bit longer!


    The bad news for prophecy believers? If the calendar doesn’t end in December 2012, no one knows when it actually will – or if it has already.

    Now that could prove to be a bit sticky for the likes of ‘darryyll’ and ‘bitblt’ – true believers in the end time. How will they know when to be ready or if they should have been ready decades ago?! The trial and tribulations of believing in creepy stuff.

  61. TerrytheTurtle, does that mean I can return a couple years worth of that food I ordered from Glenn Beck?

  62. Walt, I just read that – what a “long, strange trip it’s been”. They are a real odd couple those Thomas’

  63. Pachy,
    No! It means only that you will need to order more (If the world does not end in 2012, you will need it for future meals!)

  64. Walt,

    Sometimes I feel like I’m living on borrowed time as it is, which wouldn’t be a bad thing I suppose, but for the feeling I’ve borrowed it from Rod Sterling!

  65. ebb,

    I found this scene in Northern Exposure. Do you think the guy talking to Chris might be our Gary?

  66. The seriousness of laughter – sorry that was funny.
    Only NE could pull that off with a ‘straight face’.
    Talking esoteric string theory – will people in the background balancing chairs on body parts.

    Gawd, I miss good t.v. like NE and Due South!
    Series that had substance, ‘made you think’ all while you chuckle, out loud sometimes!

    Thanks for that pachy.
    I do picture Auggie and Gary!
    (Gary, I most definitely am meaning that in a complimentary manner!)

  67. Gary, you were on fire at the ‘Angel of Death’ thread.
    This is the first chance I’ve had to go over read – great job!


    We need to go up the ‘likes’ on dbadass’ very clever twist of Amanita phalloides! (death caps)

    Isn’t the Angel of Death an member of the Amanita cohort?

  68. I think Walt has the right idea. Its 12:45 AM here and things are slow so I’m going to try for some extra sleep so I’ll be well rested for the troll battles that will come as election day approaches.

    Good night all.

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