The Watering Hole – Wednesday, 10-20-2010: Hump Day: The Biblical Foundations of Evangelical Capitalism

It has been said “It is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than for a rich man to enter the kingdom of God.” Matthew 19: 24; Mark 10:25; Luke 18:25.

But what now of a Christianity that espouses wealth, and equates the rich and the powerful with being God’s Chosen? Where are the biblical underpinnings of such faith as this?

Perhaps the answer lies in these verses:

This is our Open Thread. Please feel free to add your thoughts on this, or any other topic that comes to mind.

In this arid wilderness of steel and stone I raise up my voice that you may hear. To the East and to the West I beckon. To the North and to the South I show a sign
proclaiming: Death to the weakling, wealth to the strong! (I:1)

Gather around me, Oh! ye death-defiant, and the earth itself shall be thine, to have and to hold! (II:3)

The chief duty of every new age is to upraise new men to determine its liberties, to
lead it towards material success – to rend the rusty padlocks and chains of dead custom that always prevent healthy expansion. (II:8)

Hate your enemies with a whole heart, and if a man smite you on one cheek, SMASH him on the other!; smite him hip and thigh, for self-preservation is the highest law! (III:7)

He who turns the other cheek is a cowardly dog! (III:8)

Give blow for blow, scorn for scorn, doom for doom – with compound interest
liberally added thereunto! Eye for eye, tooth for tooth, aye four-fold, a hundred-fold!
Make yourself a Terror to your adversary, and when he goeth his way, he will possess much additional wisdom to ruminate over. Thus shall you make yourself respected in all the walks of life, and your spirit – your immortal spirit – shall live, not in an intangible paradise, but in the brains and sinews of those whose respect you have gained. (III:9)

Stop the way of them that would persecute you. Let those who devise thine undoing be hurled back to confusion and infamy. Let them be as chaff before the cyclone and after they have fallen rejoice in thine own salvation. (IV:4)

Blessed are the strong, for they shall possess the earth – Cursed are the weak, for they shall inherit the yoke! (V:1)

Blessed are the powerful, for they shall be reverenced among men – Cursed are the
feeble, for they shall be blotted out! (V:2)

Blessed are the bold, for they shall be masters of the world – Cursed are the
righteously humble, for they shall be trodden under cloven hoofs! (V:3)

Blessed are the victorious, for victory is the basis of right – Cursed are the vanquished, for they shall be vassals forever! (V:4)

Blessed is the man who has a sprinkling of enemies, for they shall make him a hero –
Cursed is he who doeth good unto others who sneer upon him in return, for he shall be despised! (V:10)

Thrice cursed are the weak whose insecurity makes them vile, for they shall serve and suffer! (V:10)

On to other chapters:

A [True Believer] knows there is nothing wrong with being greedy, as it only means that he wants more than he already has. Envy means to look with favor upon the possessions of others, and to be desirous of obtaining similar things for oneself. Envy and greed are the motivating forces of ambition – and without ambition, very little of any importance would be accomplished.

Let no wrong go unredressed. Be as a lion in the path – be dangerous even in defeat!

The above passages have been taken from The Satanic Bible by Anton LaVey. That they echo the sentiments of a group that has been established by The Family to follow a Shadow Christ should not be surprising.

Again, this is our Open Thread. Please feel free to add your thoughts on this, or any other topic that comes to mind.


230 thoughts on “The Watering Hole – Wednesday, 10-20-2010: Hump Day: The Biblical Foundations of Evangelical Capitalism

  1. Major FAIR Exposé of PBS: Taking the ‘Public’ Out of Public TV

    FAIR undertook the examination following news last fall that PBS was canceling NOW and that Bill Moyers was retiring from Bill Moyers Journal. PBS announced that it was replacing the two shows, which exemplified the public broadcasting mission, with Need to Know, a news magazine launched in May and anchored by two journalists from the corporate media world.

    The few times I watched Need To Know, I came away unimpressed. Jon Meacham is no Bill Moyers, not even a David Brancaccio, and likewise, Alison Stewart, is no Maria Hinojosa, although Stewart came from a similar NPR background. Meacham’s failed strategy to save Newsweek, by trying to compete with The Weekly Standard for the attention of the affluent, is not a good qualification for hosting a news show meant to appeal to those of us who are less than affluent.

    When I first heard that Moyers was retiring, I expected Brancaccio would get the job to replace him, and the Bill Moyers Journal could continue to be the beacon of integrity that we knew and respected. They should have even kept the name, as a tribute to one of the best investigative journalists ever. NOW could have continued also, and Hinojosa would have been effective to thwart the anti-immigrant ignorance of the right. NOW was winning awards as recently as 2009, receiving the Walter Cronkite Award for Excellence in Television Political Coverage. The corporate world complains of a lack of company loyalty, then increasingly fails to promote from within. Why did PBS follow that failed example and cancel success?

  2. Sounds like the anti-Christ is building its army. And when one worships the anti-Christ, they use projection as a means of keeping the focus off of themselves. Just look at Limbaugh, Beck, Palin, Bachmann, and Gingrich. They are masters at using projection and their behavior follows the teachings of the Satanic bible. Just look at Beck’s latest scheme, food insurance.

  3. Is. 10:1-3. “Woe to those who enact evil statutes, and to those who continually record unjust decisions, so as to deprive the needy of justice, and rob the poor of My people of their rights…”

    No matter one’s religious belief, you can’t read the bible without realizing that man’s nature doesn’t change much.

    Good morning to you all.

  4. Why would it matter if Clarence Thomas knew if his nutty wife made the call to Anita Hill? Is she not allowed to be an idiot on her own or does she need the ‘permission’ of a man?
    My guess on the matter: Mrs. Thomas just went through a 12 step program, for whatever reason doesn’t matter, and had to do that step. Please, why the hell else 20 years later when everyone (well it seemed) has moved-on?


    House, excellent analysis on the PBS move away from true thinking programs to the pablum of ‘main stream media’s pile o’ wet rags

  5. Evangelical Capitalism?

    Sounds like an Elmer Gantry rerun. Hucksters have been bilking gullible suckers using the revival tent/ Crystal Cathederal ploy for years.

  6. 2ebbandflow ~ I’d buy the 12 step program theory, except she wasn’t calling to make amends, she was calling to demand an apology.

    Maybe the 12 step thing, like many things in teabaggerland is backwards and dekcuf pu.

  7. RUC, it’s just very odd behavior for two decades after the event.
    Maybe there’s a divorce pending in the Thomas household?

    As you point out – in Teabaggistan backward is forward…so it may be a bit longer before we know the true nexus.

  8. I’m with Zooey. Ms. Thomas has a history of weepingly defending others whom she perceives to have been the victim of false accusations. She seemingly just can’t accept the fact that her husband may not be who he claims to be.

    • I guess I went a bit over the top on the CoC thread on TP this morning.

      Unfortunately, I can’t find it in me to be sorry about it.

  9. On October 16th, (a veteran) asked several fellow veterans about a comment the Republican Candidate for Governor in Minnesota – Tom Emmer – said to the Marshall, MN newspaper on 9/26/09. That quote by Emmer – “I don’t believe you can be a freedom-loving American and be a Democrat” was not widely reported in the allegedly “liberal” mainstream media.

    • Another long day at school, starting with two exams. *sigh*

      If I have any energy left this afternoon, I think I’ll dust off the old Veruca Salt award.


  10. Good morning everyone!

    Ginny sounds like she’s gone off the deep end. Not only to revisit the incident after several decades, but to demand an apology?? Guess it’s just been eating away at poor Ginny all these years. Some people have no concept of just letting something go and moving on.

    Emmer’s comments remind me of Bush Sr.’s (alleged) comments about atheists–that they weren’t only unpatriotic, but shouldn’t even be regarded as citizens. No room in these people’s tent except for the people just like them.

  11. pachy, that would be a far more relevant discussion to have than the hyperventilating we had yesterday on McDonnell’s ignorance of the constitution…

    I have to say that I find ParkerSpitzer a pain in the neck to be in the same room at the same time. However, Spitzer ‘nailed’ (pardon the pun Elliott), teabagger Dana Loesch yesterday and got her to admit that she wanted to repeal ‘all law that puts government in the way of business’.

    Spitzer wouldn’t let her go after that, he pinned ‘so you’d repeal Civil Rights then that imposed rules on business?’ How about disband the EPA? No OSHA for you as you go about your work. What about disband the SEC, the Fed – do we need to go on?

    I find the irony (and the crass stupidity) of teabaggers galling – the Boston Tea Party was a small business v monopoly corporate protest. It was *against* the corporations on behalf of the individual, not the other way around – I want to smack those people about so hard.

    Then he had some other brownshirted hottie on who made the statement about McDonnell being a ‘mini-me’ for the Queen of all the Brownshirts, Sarah the First of Wasilla. He nailed her too: ‘That’s right she has about the same command of the Constitution as Sarah does’….

    Spitzer should start handing out copies to the teabaggers as they come on….

    And is it me, or does Dana Bash look like Joe Camel?

  12. In general, the Parker Spitzer show is a ‘talk over me would ya, I’ll show you’ noise-fest. I’d rather be in the pub for that kind of agitation, at least I’m flushing the blood around my brain with something therapeutic at the same time.

    And I was hot for Christine Romans until I saw her try and fail to have any gravitas last night.

    It won’t last long. Calling Jon Stewart, you are required to be a guest on CNN soon.

  13. Britain makes some drastic cuts to stave off bankruptcy

    500,000 government jobs (all tacked on during Tony Blair’s profligate regime). A 19% cut in government budgets.

    Rise in age for eligibility for the UK equivalent of social security (to 66 from 65)

    etc etc

    But before the teabaggers cream their jeans over the Brits out Tea Partying the tea party (oh the irony):

    8% *cut* in defence budget – whassat? No need for aircraft carriers to carry death halfway around the world. Freeze in the replacement for Trident nukes (famously called ‘rent-a-rocket’ by Thatcher’s opponents since the control of all parts and supplies were from America – basically not ‘an independent deterrent’ at all).

    A bank levy – what? A tax on business – even those banking bastards?

    *Increase* in money for foreign aid – hmm, stop shooting at them and start helping them…. WTF?

    *Increase* in investment in green energy – absolutely essential – Britain is energy bankrupt – they already import power from nuke-powered France.

    There’s even talk of *raising taxes* at the top end – what? That’s communism!

    It actually sounds hard, but fair and forward thinking – and this from supposedly a right-wing/centre coalition….. couldn’t happen here could it…

  14. I came into work early this morning so I can leave early to attend a faculty meeting at the college.
    The college president is going to lay out the budget cuts we are facing.
    I fully expect our Information Technology program to be eliminated, or rather outsourced to the self funding Continuing Ed.
    Sad, sad stuff.

  15. Sounds like we could just give a Veruca Salt award to teabaggers in general.

    Spoiled, bratty, ignorant snots, I don’t even have mine, but you can’t have any….
    Get your hands off my socialized Medicare so we can privatize it ignorami.

  16. TtT,

    Zooey said at 7:39 am, she might do a new one.

    I checked the archives to remember what it was, and thought I’d save the others the trouble.

  17. Muhlenberg College/Allentown Morning Call Poll (Oct. 16-19):

    Joe Sestak (D) 44%
    Pat Toomey (R) 41%

    That would seem to corroborate the earlier PPP poll we heard about last week.

  18. Looks like the Democrats are waking up to the nightmare that a Republican’t dominated Congress would be.

  19. What both fascinates and troubles me these days is that any Republican candidate anywhere can ever muster more than his or her own vote. Seems to me one would have to be either racist, bigoted, uneducated/ignorant, of low IQ, or maybe even dead in order to explain your vote in favor of a candidate who is either racist, bigoted, uneducated/ignorant, of low IQ, or all of the above.

    Decades ago I was actually taught that the freedoms implicit in these United States were precisely what guaranteed our nation’s continuous leadership in scientific and industrial innovation, in fundamental research, and in the general task of advancing the level of thought across both this nation and the globe. And it wasn’t said in arrogant fashion, simply as a testimony of what freedom of thought and mission implies. Seemed to be working way back then, back when JFK proposed that within ten years, we would send a man to walk on the moon and bring him back alive.

    And we did, and all seemed well.

    Today, all that remains is a nation embroiled in greed and motivated by fear and by hatred. And to think I watched it all happen. Always brings to mind a line from the 1961 movie Judgment at Nuremberg, from the Academy Award-winning script by Abby Mann. A German judge, Ernst Janning, is on trial before the tribunal in post-war Nuremberg. He begins his statement by saying:

    There was a fever over the land. A fever of disgrace, of indignity, of hunger. We had a democracy, yes, but it was torn by elements within. There was, above all, fear. Fear of today, fear of tomorrow, fear of our neighbors, fear of ourselves. Only when you understand that can you understand what Hitler meant to us. Because he said to us: ‘Lift up your heads! Be proud to be German! There are devils among us. Communists, Liberals, Jews, Gypsies! Once the devils will be destroyed, your miseries will be destroyed.’ It was the old, old story of the sacrificial lamb.

    What Janning best described was the efficient use of the power of fear to motivate a citizenry.

    I look around today and the words deja vu suddenly take on a severe meaning. True, we have no American version of Hitler. Not yet. Although I must confess that whenever I see Jim DeMint ……

    Can one drive from Colorado to Belize? To Costa Rica? Do they allow cats as immigrants?

  20. Britain staving off bankruptcy: Seems to me it would be better to just increase the money supply to cover the shortfall. Don’t tell anyone, of course.

    I mean, money supply around the globe is constantly on the upswing anyway, init?

    Whatever “money” really is. Lessee: two pieces of paper, printed on both sides with pictures and fancy trim. Paper’s always the same, the pictures and trim change along with the numbers. In my pocket, one piece of paper has a picture of Abe Lincoln and, in the corner, the number five. The other piece of paper, same size, same paper, has a picture of Abe Lincoln and the number 5 in the corner. That piece of paper is, for reasons known only to all the gods that be, worth five times the other one.

    That’s called a ‘medium of exchange’ and only the government is allowed to print the stuff. And they print as much as they care to print. So, how can they ever not have ‘enough’ unless the printing press wears out? And even then, I have a piece of plastic which, run through a gizmo at the wine shop across the street, automatically transfers X-bucks from one account in one bank to another account in another bank. No picture paper needed.

    But if no one put any “money” into my account, there could be no transfer, and I would get no wine. But if I was the government, I could always make sure there was wine money in my account because I can print as much as is needed to buy wine, or bombs, guns, bullets, missiles, etc.

    Hmmm. As the old song began, “Something’s happening here, what it is ain’t exactly clear.”

  21. Frugal,

    Mike Pence always reminds me of Robert Shaw’s character in Battle Of The Bulge, Col. Martin Hessler.

  22. Well, at least this time it wasn’t me. Someone with edit power has to go fix the first frugal post.

    Zooey taught me not to try and fix it when I break it. Leave it to professionals. 😉

  23. A reading of history will show that Christianity has always been about wealth and power. It has always favored the powerful and the rich, who could always pay for sins to be washed clean for supporting the church.

    For years it was Christianity that ruled the known world., it could bring down Kings and empires by just a word. It taxed and enslaved millions, who had no wealth or power and murdered anyone who didn’t conform to their god.

    Christianity and the rest of the major religions have held the advancement of the human race back from being what it could really be.

  24. At least I’m not the first. Right, hooda? 🙂

    Weird how one person’s fuck-up screws the entire pooch until Zooey’s exams are over. Must be in the by-laws or something. My new slogan: IOKIYAOG.

    It’s OK if you’re an Old Guy.

  25. “And God so loves the poor He made millions of them so the rich would have someone to trod upon. And, lo, when their camel gets stuck in the needle, they will get to spend eternity wondering why they didn’t listen in the first place.”

    A reading from the Book of I Cuhda Had a V8.

  26. Yuppers, frugal. One little misplaced /. Any Zooster with edit power can fix it but it is sort of fun to be able to send the entire Zoo into the Italics Zone. Oooooweeeooooo.

    doG help us if we ever do it on purpose.

  27. Look at it this way, TtT: I save you from having to do it.

    My claim to fame, my current unselfish offering of good will both to The Zoo and to the world — ITALICS FOR ALL!

    Not even Catherine the Great! Not even Napoleon! No, and not even Karl Rove have ever pulled off such a … umm … well, uh, you know. Sigh.

  28. zxbe
    October 20, 2010 at 10:34 am
    Anyone who can no longer handle the italics may just tilt their monitor.

    Which way?

  29. If I didn’t know what it was I would be concerned about my caffeine intact this AM making my eyeballs jitter. 🙂


    – That’s communism frugal… I need to see your 5-year plan in my politburo by lunchtime.

  31. house, I’ve found that refreshing the original page & closing comments and then reopening them usually works. Not sure what is going on. Glitch in the new system I suspect.

  32. Hooda: “Italic communism. Will the trains ever run on time again.”

    That would be the least of my worries as the nearest train is some sixty miles up the road from here, and if I rode it I’d have to learn how to hang onto a coal car with risk of ultimately finding myself converted into a kilowatt hour.

    A far better use of both my time and me is, I think, for me to sprawl back in my recliner, open a book, and offer my lap to my cat. She’s in the process of finishing her work solving, once and for all, the Grand Unified Theory that explains the origin of the universe. She’s currently working out the mathematical details of the 9th of String Theory’s 11 dimensions, so the time to solution is getting short.

    Meanwhile, my task is to translate “meow” into a more universal language of which italics is apparently a very important part. Thereof.

    Back to work.

  33. frugal, I did not know cats could speak italics. You may be on to something. Best continue the research.

  34. Thanks, Gary, for the info on Belize. I have to wonder if they’ll be besieged with questions approx. two weeks from right about now. Wouldn’t be surprised, actually.

  35. So the Italians are taking over the web, one page at a time. I always wanted to learn Italics, but I just don’t lean that way.

  36. We could get into trouble here. I mean, an American blog ramming learning Italics down our throats.

  37. Digressing from the italics for a moment…

    In thinking about the ads to discourage people from voting; I don’t think this is acceptable free speech. It’s subversive to the very fabric of our democracy. It is built upon democratic ideas of voting and “We The People.” Actively discouraging people from participating is tantamount to treason in my opinion.

  38. In case you guys wondered, frugal ended an emphasized run with “<em/>” after deja vu.

  39. Walt: “In case you guys wondered, frugal ended an emphasized run with “<em />” after deja vu.”

    Missed it by that much. Heh. Hey, at least I didn’t forget entirely!

  40. Frugal,
    Be wary when you copy/paste some of my comments – you do not always get what you expect.

  41. pachy, maybe to the east so it aligns with Mecca?

    Walt, I’ll take your word for it and stick to the basics. I get into enough trouble as it is.

  42. What does one do with a child who comes and tells you they just found out the local sushi joint has half priced sushi on Wednesday but didn’t bring you any?

    I am a failure as a father.

  43. hooda,

    Is that the front of the monitor facing east or the chair I sit in facing east? Or should both the monitor and chair face east? 🙂

  44. hooda,
    Praise that child for “being so frugal” – not knowing frugal, he or she will take that as a complement.

  45. Walt: “Frugal, Be wary when you copy/paste some of my comments – you do not always get what you expect.”

    I can’t address that now, Walt, because if I properly interpreted her last meow, Shadow the Cat is roughly halfway through the mathematics of String Theory’s tenth dimension.

    I’ll have to postpone the puzzling on html till later this afternoon. At least. 😉

  46. Yeah but, Walt, I’m hungry and I like sushi.

    Pachy, it is actually southeast and it would depend if you want the computer or you to talk to Mecca. I’m guessing it never talks back. 😉

  47. What does one do with a child who comes and tells you they just found out the local sushi joint has half priced sushi on Wednesday but didn’t bring you any?

    I am a failure as a father.

    I understand it’s rhetorical – reaching through the cyber world to give you the virtual “there – there; It’ll be o.k.” pat on the back!
    Here’s a sample platter: California roll; salmon and this one is unagi!

  48. Hooda: “America may be heading for poor quality beef because factory farms are hurting”

    Nah, it’s them damn WOLVES in Idaho and Wyoming. Them ‘re KILLERS. Ah dun herd them dam wolves kilt a hunerd cows at least, an’ jus’ las’ year! ‘Nuff to keep an entire butcher shop in Minidoka goin’ for several months!

    An’ peeple wonner ’bout why beef costs so much, why it’s gittin’ scarce. It’s them damn wolves, that’s what it is.

  49. Best Sushi I ever had was in a little Japanese restaurant in Little Tokyo near downtown L.A. I remarked to the waitress that ‘this one’ was particularly yummy. “Is Giant Cram,” she explained. I smiled and ordered some more.

    Sushi/Sashimi here in Colorado City would be, I’m sure, something only ‘them damn libruls’ would ever eat.

    I agree. They’re right on that one. First time for everything.

  50. Sushi/Sashimi here in Colorado City would be, I’m sure, something only ‘them damn libruls’ would ever eat.

    Are there any Thai; Ethiopian; Korean; Abyssinian; or Vietnamese dinning establishments?

  51. My Berkeley dojo used to get regular visits from high-ranking Japanese instructors and it was traditional to go out for dinner during the seminar. My friend Rebecca was a complete sushi addict and was munching away on octopus. One of the instructors raised a significant eyebrow and said, “Octopus? Even some Japanese people don’t like octopus.”

    Or me.

  52. frugal, the wolves are making a resurgence in Wi as well. I did some work on a local farm and he told me a story about how he heard a ruckus in the calf barn. When he went out to investigate a dark shadow ran out of the barn. He checked and all was well inside.

    Folks just don’t get the idea that wolves are natural predators and are generally brighter than tea baggers.

  53. Octopus. I prefer the Italian version. Little octopi, about the size of a half dollar, fried in oil oil and herbs. Sort of a cross between potato chips and chewing gum.

  54. “Octopus? Even some Japanese people don’t like octopus.”

    Or me.

    So no Takoyaki for you.
    Do you eat Unagi?

  55. From Yahoo:

    Republicans get higher marks with likely voters than Democrats on handling the economy, taxes, the deficit, job creation, immigration and national security, and on managing the federal government. Likely voters are evenly split on which party would best handle health care and Social Security.

    The stupid, it burns, precious….it burns… universal suffrage gets a black eye right there…

  56. ebb: “Are there any Thai; Ethiopian; Korean; Abyssinian; or Vietnamese dinning establishments?”

    No, but there is Victorio’s Pizza, also a restaurant in the motel up the road at the I-25 interchange.

    We are in the middle of nowhere, or within a mile or two of it. But there is a little fishin’ lake two miles west and the trout therefrom go well in my version of beer batter.

    But yes, if there’s one thing I miss having left the city, it’s the option of enjoying true ethnic food. One of life’s small but truly eternal pleasures.

    Footnote: years ago on a visit to Hawaii, we had a lunch at a Korean restaurant in Honolulu. When I got home and was going over my credit card receipts, I went into permanent grin mode when I read the handwritten one from that little Korean place. It read: “2 runches.”

    Bless them. And the Kim Chee was very good, too!

  57. Hooda: “Folks just don’t get the idea that wolves are natural predators and are generally brighter than tea baggers.”

    How true. In fact, a “second amendment solution” takes an entirely new tack when the underlying measurement is predator intelligence. When that’s the case, it’s open season on teabaggers and wolves rule. As they should.

    I love the critters. Watched two of them ‘playing’ on a mountain meadow in AZ a few years ago, then heard them howl at night. Pure delight. As opposed to, say, watching Sarah Palin and Christine O’Donnell ‘playing’ on the TV — or listening to either of them howl, for that matter. Anytime. Yuk.

  58. frugal, I heard a couple of types discussing how they went back into the woods to reclaim a skidder in a logging operation. Suddenly there were a couple of wolves following them down a logging road.

    They dang near wet their pants.

    Of course they made it to their skidder, after walking about 1/2 mile, wondering when the wolves were going to eat them.

    I told them there wasn’t a single report of wolves attacking people in the US and their response was yeah but they looked like they wanted to!

  59. gummitch, I bet I could make a polpo frittata con marinara you would find edible. Providing I could find some little octopi.

  60. Man, if I had two wolves following me I’d be on a cloud!

    They’re incredibly intelligent animals, far more intuitive than most humans can ever hope to be, and far more gentle as well. Far as I know, the last “person” a wolf “ate” was Little Red Riding Hood. Or was it her grandma. I forget.

    Wolves are invaluable in maintaining any preferred balance in nature. I suspect that’s what’s scariest about them to wingnuts. I can understand that part, when I think about it.

  61. frugal, wolves have attacked humans in Eurasia. Very uncommon but it has happened. As my book on my website says there are no recorded attacks on humans by wolves in NA in the last two hundred plus years.

  62. A liberal and a conservative were camped in the Denali Wilderness in Alaska. It was a dark and lonely night. They were sitting on a log, trying to keep warm by the dying embers in their fire ring. The wolves were howling, sounding ever closer. Then, there the were — green eyes glistening in the dark, right over there.

    The liberal nonchalantly reached down and tied his shoelaces as his conservative companion started to freak out. Finally the conservative said, “Tying your shoelaces isn’t going to help you at all! You can’t outrun a pack of hungry wolves!”

    The liberal looked at the conservative, smiled, and said, “I don’t have to outrun the wolves. I only have to outrun you!”

    History in the making once lesson learned!”

  63. Frugal, Paul Mech related a story of a man in the Canadian wilds who was heading back to his camp with a couple of ptarmigans on his belt. It was in something of a snow storm. He felt something tugging at his belt and looked down to find a wolf trying to pull one of the birds.

    He freaked out, cut one of them free and tossed it behind him.

    Both the man, when he got back to his camp, and the wolf had ptarmigan for dinner.

  64. hooda, I’d love to try that dish. I have nothing against octopi other than the really rubbery raw stuff. I’ve had poorly-prepared squid as well, but in general I love the stuff (even have a copy of the Squid Cookbook). Little fried octopi sound great.

  65. I still have a copy somewhere of Farley Mowat’s book, Never Cry Wolf. It’s an exceptional ‘journal’ of sorts, written by wildlife biologist Mowat in the fifties after he spent a summer studying and basically living with wolves in Canada, to the west of Hudson Bay. He mentions, too, how the Eskimo people of the area could actually understand wolf howls and answer them in kind as the search for exactly where the migrating caribou herds happened to be.

    Barry Lopez’s Of Wolves and Men is similarly informing.

    Both are well worth the read. Each will work toward diminishing/removing the embedded hatred/fear/loathing of wolves so common the the lower end of the human species. Including most conservatives, republicans, and cattlemen (assuming there’s a difference somewhere).

  66. frugal. Lopez’s book was a primary source for mine. As was Mowatts. Wolves are just big dogs, man’s friend. Wolf hasn’t forgotten that. Sadly, Man has.

  67. Actually, the brewery went down for years but recently they are roasting their own grain again. The beer is getting better.

  68. When we spent the summer at Hannagan Meadow Lodge in E. AZ’s high mountains, we bought, from Amazon, a dozen copies of Leopold’s Sand County Almanac, mainly because there were a couple of chapters in it that described his experiences in E. AZ in the thirties, when he was still a subsidized wolf hunter working to exterminate all the wolves in the area.

    His most poignant comment was this, written after he shot his last wolf on Escudilla Mountain:

    “We reached the old wolf in time to watch a fierce green fire dying in her eyes. I realized then, and have known ever since, that there was something new to me in those eyes — something known only to her and the mountain. I was young then and full of trigger-itch; I thought that because fewer wolves meant more deer, then no wolves would mean a hunter’s paradise. But after seeing the green fire die, I sensed that neither the wolf nor the mountain agreed with such a view.”

    We put one Sand County Almanac in each cabin, but never mentioned it to lodge management — they HATED wolves, couldn’t understand any reason to not kill every one of the murderin’ sons-o-bitches.

    They were, basically, dumb and uneducated. But since Hannagan Lodge was in the middle of the Mexican Gray Wolf Reintroduction area, lots of people who visited there were very interested. Hopefully, interested guests ‘stole’ the books before management had a chance to burn them.

  69. well, frugal, I live in Sand County.

    And Gummitch, in about a month I am going in to do some work for the Point brewery. Something about controls on a pump.

  70. Is Point still an independent brewery? I know that a number of the locals and regionals in Wisconsin were bought out a number of years ago, but no one ever talks about Point. I just loved the idea of their independence, and that motto. And Point Bock wasn’t half bad (this was in the 80s).

  71. Gum, Point Bock is still their best. But sadly they were bought up by a Chicago outfit over a decade ago. The good news is in the past couple of years they are returning to their independence. I’ve lived here since 84 and just recently the smell of roasting malt has returned.

  72. I’ll remind everyone here too, Jon Stewart on Larry King tonight!

    Where’s Zooey, did she get lost?

  73. pachy,
    Zooey has a hard day at school today, I believe she used the term ‘long’. She may be using butterfly kisses on her profs.

  74. Thanks dyker and Walt

    I was really, really trying to be snarky knowing she had been studying for the geography exam.

    I guess those would be mid-terms, after which taking are always a good excuse to drink! 🙂

  75. Interesting that CNN reporting that Scott (R) leading Sink (D) for governor while the local news at noon reported it the other way today!

  76. Ooooh, Zooey is still gone, we can talk about her. I’ll bet she had exams, she had to examine two college boys’ butts. 👿

  77. Shayne, it could be worse. She could be to busy to notice butts. For her sake I hope that isn’t so. :0

    • Hello, Pachy. Thanks for the video clip. 🙂

      I feel good about the exams, especially the History exam. It was an essay exam and I had a lot to say, and managed to get it all written in the 50 minutes allotted. Yay!

  78. Having a lot to say can be a good thing.
    As long as someone is willing to listen, or read as the case may be, Zooey.
    Good work, intensity can go along ways….

  79. I hope you printed real purtty like and crossed dem T’s and dotted them thar I’s.

    Hell, in this day and age if you were to flunk out you could always be a Tea Party politician. All you really need to know is how to say “cut taxes” and “its all Obama’s fault”.

  80. “…tomorrow’s class just got canceled!”

    Being able to overwhelm ones superiors is a good sign…

  81. Ed Rendell on Parker/Spitzer just said we’ve spent $100B on Iraqi infrastructure and $50B on Afghanistan infrastructure so far. I didn’t get the time frame but he said we’ve spent none on our own!

  82. See if you want to get Zooey here all you have to do is mention young mens butts. Other body parts might work too. 🙂

  83. And that’s a problem, why?

    Oh, afraid it may not meet ‘standards’ at the Zoo?

    Bring it on Raven ~


    Ma Nature has been absolutely, fantastically stupendous lately. Nearing the full Moon – rising as the sunsets and the winged ones coming in to roost ~!~

    The Red-Winged Blackbirds and Starlings come in by the dozens to roost in the marsh; but not without fanfare. The blackbirds come by the dozens – alight on the reeds and as if they were firefighters sliding down the pole – or on an elevator all ‘going down’ low. Then all of a sudden swoosh the cloud of black rises up – and flies further norther. Spectacular with the rising Moon behind them and the sun quickly sinking.
    (oh, and the Pelicans coming in for a landing on the small rocky island).

  84. Joe Miller – the Junior DeMint


    hen came Joe Miller. He acknowledged that there would be people who didn’t like his answer, but laid it out there anyway. Someone at my table muttered, “He’s gonna say Jim DeMint…. just wait.”

    “Jim DeMint,” said Miller with an air of conviction.

  85. pachy, I see Auggie has found WiFi and is posting on TP! How is the dear lad this evening?

  86. ebb
    Auggie responded to Zooey’s reply to him. I think the last sentence says it all “Who needs to associate with an asshole in Virginia?”

      • Speaking of assholes, I read in the Spokane paper today that the Phelps gang will be in Coeur d’Alene, Idaho and Spokane starting tomorrow. If the weather is nice, I may be taking a little drive north this weekend…

  87. pachy, I !did finally get that far – nice response. That Auggie has a head that goes along with all those eyes!

    The sweet butterfly references have give TP the element of class it so sorely needed!

    Nice job Auggie & Zooey: ‘Love is All Around’ ~

  88. Why are the Phelps schlepping in the North West?
    Did someone die and they need to make the family feel even more pain?

  89. I couldn’t bear more than the opening few chords ebb, sorry but I’m not going to inflict such flailing on anyone…

    They’re forecasting golf ball size hail here, and the birds are peculiarly absent..
    I parked the truck under a tree and am going to bed.

      • The thing I hate the most about the Phelps gang is that they pound their shit into the children’s heads and have them holding signs that read “God Hates Fags.” Little kids are like sponges, and they’re getting filled up with acid and bile, instead of chocolate milk.

  90. What? Phelps doesn’t believe that gawd speaks directly to the holy father the pope?
    Now that I think on it – this gawd does an awful lot of talking to folk: fer and agin stuff.

  91. Well, if the Phelps ever come around here I’ll just have to rent a Liberace outfit and picket with them! 🙂


    Huh? re:

    “The sweet butterfly references have give TP the element of class it so sorely needed!”

  92. The imagery pachy, the imagery – Auggie writes so beautifully it gives great class to TP!

    It is meant as a compliment, pachy. Please relay that to Auggie.

    Then one night I had a dream or vision, where a majestic butterfly lit on my shoulder and fluttered it’s wings. This butterfly lifted me and flew me to a secret garden where I learned great political truths and a little geography.

    Thus I find myself travelling south, toward home, via Idaho every night in my dreams.

  93. See if you want to get Zooey here all you have to do is mention young mens butts. Other body parts might work too.

    one word:



  94. ebb

    Between dirty glasses, a monitor and chair facing east and a very annoying cat at this point I somehow could not imagine an “n” after give.

    You’ve given me the thought to dig up some papers I saved from when I cohabited with a PhD. (Shakespeare) when I was in college. She wrote down some things I said in my wooing of her that rivaled the Bard.

    🙂 😉

  95. pachy, you and 5thstate have rubbed elbows (and obviously other body parts) with some classy, classy women. Meaning you are classy gents!

  96. Sometimes I see myself in the same predicament as the 80 year old man who went to the doctor seeking help to lower his sex urge.

    The doctor asked what he meant?

    The old man said, “Right now its all up here,” as he pointed to his head. “I would like to have it down here,” he said, pointing to his crotch!

    • Heh. That reminds me of the 90 year old man sitting on a park bench, crying his eyes out. A young man comes by and asks him what’s wrong. The old man tells him that he just got married to this gorgeous 25 year old, who treats him like a king, and makes mad, passionate love to him three times a night. The young man says that sounds just amazing, and asks why the old man is crying. The old man says, “I can’t remember where I live!!”

      • I can’t believe there isn’t more activity on the TP thread about the Sheriff who won’t do foreclosures. That’s an amazing story!

  97. I keep meaning to ask if Pachysandra terminalis is your cousin?

    The first year it sleeps, the second year it creeps, and
    the third year it leaps.

  98. ebb

    Pachysandra was named by a professor from UCLA who, when first coming upon a patch of it, witnessed my brother giving a back rub to Sandra Dee who was laying on it!

    An interesting side note about my time with the Shakespearean, I acted in several plays she directed, along with Michael Emerson who went on to appear on Law and Order CI and who played Ben on “Lost”.

  99. Zooey, it’s a positive story and no parasitic nematode is allowed to post more than one vitriolic piece of dried out gum – so no ‘rock ’em sock ’em robot’.

    Speaking of which – I don’t detect the ‘dr’.
    Then again I’ve really not been reading as much as before. At times it’s difficult to get a rhythm/tempo to hold my interest to ‘keep reading’.
    (I’m glad to have gazed upon Auggie’s, not so secret, love letters to a certain butterfly).

  100. Zooey

    I don’t know, I’ve never seen “Lost”. In the CI episode he bamboozled his wife that he worked for the UN and at the end Gorem captured him in a motel room holding his own children hostage with a shotgun.

  101. The university I attended was the location of the CoC 2008 outsourcing seminar in a TP thread yesterday and one of Rush Limpballs wives was a student there.

    • Sarah Palin (finally) graduated from my university, which no one on campus EVER talks about. We can still be proud to have Deep Throat (Mark Felt, not the porno) as a graduate. 🙂

    • Okay, I don’t recognize that guy at all. He must have gotten on “lost” after I stopped watching.

      Thanks, Gary! BTW, nice slapdown of Dan on TP.

  102. My Ph.D. graduate school (SIU Carbondale) is famous for having one of the ugliest buildings on any campus in N. America. (Faner Hall; one of my professors once claimed that they towed in a WWII aircraft carrier one night and cemented it in place.)

    My undergrad (Occidental College) has this abstract sculpture at the top of some stairs at the entrance to the campus, a spot that has been used in a couple of films. (Star Trek III, the Search for Spock. This was the top of the stairs of “Mt. Sileia.” I forget what the most recent thing was; possibly not yet released it happened so recently.)

    • That sounds awful, Gary.

      I must say that the UI campus is quite beautiful, but there are a couple buildings that are just jarring because they’re so ugly. One of them is the Chemistry building, and the other is the Mines building. Every time I look at them, I wonder what the university was thinking — maybe they were thinking “free building.” I don’t know.

  103. “nice slapdown of Dan on TP”

    Yeah … people like that really piss me off. Punk ass troll couldn’t even spell “logic” unless someone else first showed him how.

  104. Thanks Gary:

    I really liked him and his acting. I worked backstage for a community theatre production of “Noises Off” that he had a starring role in and he was funny as can be. His Shakespeare performances were outstanding. I think he married the daughter of a Literature professor from my school.

  105. UC at Davis is a beautiful school.
    UC at SC is woodsy and gorgeous
    UC@B – lovely campus as well!/ s for the @ symbol


    pachy – I had you pegged as a graduate of TBDI

    The Bible Doctrine Institute is overseen by the ministry of Bible Believer’s Baptist Church in Jacksonville, Florida, where the President Dr. David L. Peacock is the Pastor.

    (surprise! surprise! it’s listed under: “Unaccredited institutions of higher education”)

    • Ugh, we have a fundy Xtian “college” downtown. One of those places that kids spend beaucoup bucks to get indoctrinated with bullshit that doesn’t transfer anywhere but other Xtain bullshit “colleges.”

  106. Gary you’ve been on fire in the evening lately – have you been eating your Wheaties for dinner?

  107. Well, the “compass point” universities in Illinois (Northern, Eastern, Western and Southern IU) are a different system from the UI campuses and administrations. These were originally land-grant colleges that grew up into universities. The irony now is that, while UI gets all the laurels, in terms of degrees granted, publications printed, and general scholarship, SIU Carbondale is actually the state’s flagship university.

    The thing with Faner Hall is rather reminiscent of the story of the French lad who moves to Paris. When he first looks upon the Eiffel Tower, he loves it because it is so beautiful. But as he becomes a middle-aged man, he comes to hate it because it is so ugly. Until at last, as an old man, he comes to love it because it is so ugly. That’s Faner.

    (Evidently, the entire design of the building was driven by the student unrest of the ’60’s. Unconcerned by any other function, the building is designed with so many irrational hallways and entrances that it cannot be shut down by student protests.)

    • Gary, not the University of Illinois — the University of Idaho. 😆

      When I was stuck in Champaign, IL in 2008, on the ill-fated roadtrip, I visited the UI campus there quite often — it’s frickin’ HUGE!! It has some gorgeous buildings though.

  108. “Gary you’ve been on fire in the evening lately”

    Thanks, 2ebb. Some of it — I think; I hope — is just me clawing my way out of the past 2+ years of depression. I think I’ve mentioned that I’ve a couple of small papers out, proposals to conferences, and a proposal to Amazon for their e-pamphlets. I’m scratching away at a couple of papers for peer-reviewed journals.

    Rediscovering my center, and moving from there.

  109. “we have a fundy Xtian “college” downtown”

    I know the type you mean, Z. My niece went to one in the San Diego area; some scam-campus funded by Tim LeHaye. Very proud of herself …

    Me, I just post shit on FB and let that part of the family deal with it or not …

  110. Idaho – Hah! God, you’d think I could figure that there was more than one state that began with “I”!

    Well, what I said was still true, even if it wasn’t relevant …

    • Pachy, I couldn’t tell you. My dad always wanted to go to Cracker Barrel for breakfast…for 4 weeks. I hope I never see another one of those places.

  111. “There’s learnin’ and then there’s book learnin’ ”

    Gary that is positive news about the papers.

    – when I plan my, virtual, trip to Alabama I’m including a stop off to visit you in AZ and Raven in NM. Then on to pick up House and drive him to the waters so he can see a Pelican.
    Hmmm, I’m re-thinking that – forget the visiting you thing – you’re coming with me to Alabama and if Raven isn’t too busy he can come along. Oh, I nearly forgot – we’d have to swing by for frugal in CO.
    After showing House the Pelicans – we can venture to Florida. Head north through VA – the NE states.
    We’ll need to either do a circuitous route – taking in the zig-zag of the mid-west then head up to Canada for Dycker.
    Reset the course to visit the triplets: ID/WA/OR.

  112. UI was in Champaign, Pachy; I was down in Carbondale. There at least used to be a string of purple pancake houses that we used to call …

    Wait for it …

    The Purple Pancake House.

    It was a locally owned business, though, and I’ve no idea if it spread any further. After that, all I ever knew by name was IHOP.

  113. ebb

    The largest land owner in downtown Jacksonville is the First Baptist Church. Many of Jacksonville’s local politicians and state representatives belong to this particular church.

    Over the years there have been numerous preachers, both black and white, from all over town found to be molesting children and others forcing themselves on women.

    Tis truly a Christian town, and they bomb Mosques there also.

  114. Rav, let me know when the virtual trip is about to commence and I’ll pack an imaginary suitcase. Not quite sure what to bring to Alabama, though.

    Otherwise, g’nite owl!

  115. Gary

    I only ate there once in 1992 with a finance professor who got her Ph.D. at UI Champaign-Urbana. She ate there frequently while in school. I think it was an Original Pancake House.

  116. ebb

    On that virtual trip to Alabama take a banjo along. Then when you come to pick-up me you can say ” I come from Alabama with a banjo on my knee”.

  117. Gary, unless that was a play on words (night owl) – my gravatar is a Peregrine falcon!

    Virtually anything can be packed in a virtual trip to Alabama. We’ll have to ask House of Roberts in the morning!

    Goodnight Gary – sleep well and dream the dreams that make you happy!

Comments are closed.