Watering Hole: October 30, 2010 – The Beach – Open Thread

The Tea Party is always complaining about taxes.  This is what vacation would be like without our public beaches.

This is our Open Thread.  How was your Summer vacation?  Speak Up!

From Jeff Seeman’s Diary

Let’s say that you’re a Teabagger and you want to get rid of taxes. I tell you it’s not possible, but you don’t listen to me. That’s cool.

So you win. Taxes are gone. No taxes in the USA. You win. The federal government and all the evils that go with it are gone forever.

Now let’s finish your scenario out, OK? Humor me.

You might think that with no taxes, you’ll make more money, right?


Let’s say that you make 40,000 dollars a year now. But your take home pay is only 30,000 dollars. Your employer knows that he doesn’t have to pay the federal government those nasty taxes anymore, but he also knows that you’ve been willing to come to work every day for a 30,000 dollar take-home amount. Guess who’s getting a pay decrease down to 30k a year? You are. The taxes are gone, did you really think that your employer wouldn’t choose to benefit from that first?

So now you make the same amount as before, but there’s no money going to social security anymore. The same amount of money you lived on before now has to get you beyond retirement.

Your 401k is gone too. The company that manages it has wiped the accounts dry. Who’s going to stop them from doing that now that the federal regulators have all been fired?

Perhaps you’d better start saving 10 percent of your paycheck for future retirement plans? Whoops, can’t do that. The FDIC doesn’t exist, so the banks have all been cleaned out. So have the accounts you used to have money in. Your consumer protections are gone, and the person nearest to the vault with a key is now racing towards Bermuda with sacks of your money.

We didn’t really want all those nasty regulations on the banks anyway, did we?

OK, so you can handle this. You don’t need help. Pull yourself up by your bootstraps, right?

You’ll be OK, I’m sure of it. But your kids are hungry, so you’d better go to the store to get groceries. Be careful with the meat and the produce departments, though. Sometime last month, the farmer realized that his farm subsidies were gone and he’s gotta cut corners to survive, not to mention raising his prices. In the cutting of the corners, he stopped feeding his cattle clean food. Now those cows are all sick and their meat is packaged up nice for you to buy and feed to your kids.

There’s no FDA and no USDA to monitor the food your farmer provides to the grocery store, so you’re on your own.

Oh and by the way, the ground beef that will be in your digestive system soon just cost you double what it used to, if you’re lucky. Price controls have been dissolved altogether.

When your family gets sick from that tainted meat, you’ll have to rush them to the hospital. Pray that their illness has already been given a cure, because the Centers For Disease Control no longer can help your local hospital identify any viruses.

Also, don’t drink the water in your neighborhood anymore. The Environmental Protection Agency, as it turns out, was actually protecting the environment. You didn’t think Monsanto was going to stop chemical dumping in the streams and lakes of America on their own, did you?

On your way home from the hospital, drive slowly. The traffic lights no longer work because they were part of the local government control and there’s no more tax money left to operate the lights. This alone caused a lot of accidents, and most of the wreckage is left behind for you to drive around if you can. Ever noticed the people that sweep up the broken glass after even the most minor fender-benders? Guess what paid their salaries?

When you get home, pray it’s still there. Without police, what do you think the odds are that people just left it alone? Unless you left your husband/wife behind with a big gun 24/7, somebody’s coming in to take your stuff. And if they have a bigger gun, you just lost your husband and his 30k a year too.

Hopefully that house doesn’t catch fire too. No fire department. And even if there were friends willing to help put out the fire, where do you think they’re going to get the water to douse the flames? Those fire hydrants were not placed there by divine intervention.

Hopefully you prepared for all this by stockpiling on guns and assorted weaponry. Not like it’ll matter. There’s armies from about 2 dozen countries that either are ready to invade or already have. Who’s gonna stop them? Jimbo and his homemade militia? I’m sure the people in your neighborhood can fill in for the boys that used to be in our military, because you know….wolverines! I loved that film too. But let’s be honest….the Cubans and Russians were going to kick our ass, no matter how many high school football players Patrick Swayze can recruit.

Even if the world community takes pity on us and defends us from invading armies, it won’t take long for the airports to become havens of hysteria. Weapons on airplanes are easy as pie. The TSA that performs security checks at the gate…who do you think paid their salaries? They’re part of that massive government waste you’re so happy to be rid of. Maybe the federal marshalls on every plane will protect you….oh, wait. Never mind.

Aside from the easy pickings that terrorism will find in the skies, you won’t be safe on the ground either. Timothy McVeigh is about to be a happy memory compared to the chemical detonations that are possible now. The regulatory committees that monitored the sale and purchase of toxic materials are gone daddy gone.

So between the tainted meat, your pay cut, your 401k being wiped out, the hospitals being overrun by people who ate the same tainted meat, your house being an easy target, the threat of terrorism at all-time highs, and having to fight for your own survival on a hourly basis….don’t you think that maybe it’s better that you just shut up and pay your damn taxes?

Or are you willing to risk all that just because you once heard about a guy who was lazy and took 300 bucks a month in unemployment?


I don’t expect a response, but it felt good to write that.  Screw John Galt.

UPDATE – Thanks for the rec list.  I better fix all my typos.

UPDATE 2 – yes, I give you 110% freedom to republish my response, crib from it, whatever you wish.  What’s mine is yours.

160 thoughts on “Watering Hole: October 30, 2010 – The Beach – Open Thread

  1. Let’s say that you make 40,000 dollars a year now. But your take home pay is only 30,000 dollars. Your employer knows that he doesn’t have to pay the federal government those nasty taxes anymore, but he also knows that you’ve been willing to come to work every day for a 30,000 dollar take-home amount. Guess who’s getting a pay decrease down to 30k a year?

    This is a familiar Thom Hartmann point. When taxes go up on the wealthy, they simply make less money, and when they go up on working people, eventually their income rises in order to maintain their standard of living. It’s a strong argument to let the Bush tax cuts expire for everybody. That would free up four trillion dollars to get the rest of the country working, instead of only 700 billion, if the tax cuts were kept for all but the top tax bracket. Unfortunately, it’s too vague a concept for the low information voter to grasp, and Obama can’t get re-elected in 2012 if he blocks the tax cuts entirely. So the most responsible course of action is off the table, as usual, when dealing with the Republicans.

  2. Civilization has a price, always has and always will. There’s the cost of developing, maintaining, and improving, overall it’s worth far more than more profit for already crooked banks, for greed-based giant corps. Why? Because the quality of a civilization defines the quality of life available therein. Cheapen it and watch the quality plunge. Or look back on the first 8 years of this century. The lesson is implicit and obvious.

  3. Comedy Central and C-Span are covering Stewart’s and Colbert’s rally today, starting at noon eastern.

    By the way, MSNBC is only running their useless prison shows from 7pm tonight, until 6am, Sunday. The rest of the schedule looks like a weekday, I guess since the election is close.

  4. Willie Stargell once described Phil Niekro’s knuckleball as a ‘butterfly with hiccups’. Since I’ve seen that pitch thrown many times, I think I have an idea what a sneezing butterfly looks like.

    Other quotes about the Niekro knuckler:

    “It giggles as it goes by”– Rick Monday
    “Trying to hit [Niekro] is like trying to eat Jell-O with chopsticks.” – Bobby Murcer
    “Hitting Niekro’s knuckleball is like eating soup with a fork.” – Richie Hebner
    “I work for three weeks to get my swing down pat and Phil (Niekro) messes it up in one night.” – Pete Rose

  5. The rally is being streamed at c-span.org

    Butterfly, you still look beautiful to this dragonfly. A hot toddy might help, in lieu of hot chocolate. Sorry your experiencing the sneezes, watering eyes, sore throat, and free-flowing snot. (LOL) I’m sorry for that, really I am. 😦

    • Thanks, Pachy. At least I experience all of the above without witnesses. It ain’t pretty!

      I’ll get some more work done, and then I can enjoy the rally while I wallow in my misery. 😀

  6. Looks like about 300 to 3000 people at the rally. LOL

    Sorry, I was watching Fox News. (not really, I have never turned that channel on)

  7. Sign Patrol (since I’ve got DVR)

    Image of an evil looking Christine O’Donnell, with long fingernails, hands suspended over a green boiling pot, with a hand and foot sticking out of the liquid: “Keep big government out of my cauldron”

    Another O’Donnell one:
    “If you want to be me, be me
    And if you want to be you, be you
    Or, if you want to be a witch, that’s ok, too

  8. Zooey, Oh you have the best: I see Drs. House & Dragonfly are on duty. Their bedside manner can not be surpassed – you are in good hands~!~

  9. “I doubt this sign will change your opinion”

    A picture of George Carlin and “The Status Quo Sucks”

    “Restore Sanity, Fight Fox”

    “Birthers for Hawaii Statehood!”

  10. “Don’t stomp on me because I disagree”

    “Lizard People Stole My Healthcare”

    President Obama is an American” right next to the ‘Birthers for Hawaii Statehood’ sign

    “Nambla for Stewart”

    “I Fear Colbert Won’t Run For President”

  11. Looking at the area on Google maps I estimated the length of the Reflecting Pond between the Lincoln Memorial and the Washington Monument as 2000′. The length of the park from the stage to the Washington I estimate at 4500′.

    That is one shit pot full of people there and there ain’t no reflecting pond. I hope Auggie’s having fun. 🙂

  12. “On the seventh day, we teabagged”

    “I Believe in Science – Not Mythology”

    “I’m Unique, Just Like Everybody Else”

  13. It’s the 21st Century



    The few things missing: wafting smoke from the ‘herb’ and the flower laden head gear.

  14. That giant whooshing sound you are periodically hearing is the majority of these jokes going over the head of the few teabaggers watching this show.

  15. That giant whooshing sound you are periodically hearing is the majority of these jokes going over the head of the few teabaggers watching this show.

    True, too true!

  16. Wonderful.

    No vehemence among the crowd. No stirring/fomenting hate from the hosts…

    a great success spreading the word – we can get it done…

    • He made some very excellent points, putting so much in perspective, without being preachy. I wonder what the press will do to him tomorrow. Who cares. I thought they did a pretty great job. Not perfect, but pretty darned good. That large of an audience, live, for that many hours is certainly tough to pull off as opposed to a half hour show, taped, in a small studio. My hat is off to them.

  17. “Today’s rally,political or entertainment?”

    That’s C-Spans discussion question!
    Defeats the entire thing ~~~~~ urrrgh!

    It was entertainment imparting politics.
    Politics imparting humor —-
    who cares it happened. Stop parsing the crap out of things!

  18. C-Span says they’ll be covering the Boner rally in Ohio. That ought to be entertaining, and not in a good way! Great for laughs, I’m sure, but not meant to be from the orange one.

  19. Yummy. I got an invite for BBQ ribs and to watch the world’s largest outdoor cocktail party, the annual Florida / Georgia game.

    Hi-def TV and free beer, how can I turn that down?

    I hope the butterfly gets better.

  20. Well damn, they hadn’t even lit the charcoal yet, I got a beer meanwhile.

    Zooey my dear, I would fly to your side with reams of new tissue for you, but given the distance and prevailing winds it would take a year or two! 🙂

  21. “…pile of snotty tissues on my own…”

    Zooey – what a lovely picture you’ve painted!

    A fair-weather dragonfly. Good thing you have a loyal dog who’ll keep you company.

  22. I don’t pretend to be a dragonfly mind-reader, but he may have had this in mind – to send to his beloved butterfly…

  23. Zooey,
    Texas geography text?

    That makes the questions and answers easy:
    How old is the Earth? – 6000 years
    How old are the Rocky mountains? – 6000 years
    How old are the seas? – 6000 years
    What forces led to the formation of the Himalayas? – The hand of God

    See? I have not even seen the text and I know the answers!

  24. Boy am I glad Alabama’s not playing today! Undefeated Missouri is down 24-0 to Nebraska, still in the first quarter, and undefeated Michigan State is down 17-0 to Iowa in the first quarter.

  25. Pachy,
    It’s been a few years. We usually send my son over for the family meal when he visits. He brings enough home to serve the crew of an aircraft carrier.

  26. They reported there were thousands of people who couldn’t even get ON the mall. Wow. I call that a success


    Hope Jane and Wayne were able to at least get on the Mall.

    The rally sparked the MSM interest which means it was successful at disseminating thought provoking messages. Humor has a way of doing that!

    Here’s to a positive Tuesday oh and Z – is your b-day Tue. or Wed.? What the hay – we’ll toast to each and every day.

  27. I missed seeing Cat Stevens perform? I should have gone, though word is that a lot of folks couldn’t even get into the Metro stations in VA, let alone on a train.

    Favorite signs:
    “I found Jesus, he was hiding from your AK-47”
    “Restore Sanity, Learn History”

  28. OIMF, those signs are great! This monitor is small and even if I do a ‘full size’ can’t really read them.

    Z, my apologies for posting Billy. The song was rolling around my head and needed to be let loose.

  29. I’m taking back my favorite beverage, from the heathens/savages know as the ‘teabaggers’.

    I’m a progressive and I drink tea – it does not rot my brain and it does not come in bag form. Loose leaf only!

  30. Florida 21 – Georgia 7 at halftime.

    If I see a Rabbi I’m going south, way south below Argentina. Its summer down there!

  31. I thought the winged things were going Argentina way sans clergy, anyway! That they were just going to fly the butterfly and dragonfly path }}}}}}

  32. Question of the day: why does Pee think Zooey is a boozer? He’s been making that claim for years.

    I have actually been drinking with Zooey. Um, three times now? “Lightweight” might be a little cruel, but if she ever got through two pints of beer she’s probably be paralytic. Cheap date.

  33. houseofroberts

    Dragonflies and butterflies in fantasy flights of folly.

    I think ebb used to teach English or something. 😉

  34. house,

    Have we not learned to look for the hidden meanings behind the communications our politicans and their supporters. As an example, the message behind the ads to Latinos not to vote was the one to the racists supporters of that candidate wasn’t it.

    If that makes sense then understand that not everything is as serious as the political ads we now see. Thus, imagined internet intrigue occasionally occurs containing occult messages.

    I don’t know what anybody is talking about, especially myself to tell you the truth.

    I’m stocking up on hot chocolate, Swiss Miss. And booze, lots of booze. I’ve read things about butterflies.

    Did any of this make sense house?

  35. Just got home from work and haven’t had much of a chance to catch up. The Rally sounds like it did well.

    And saying Zooey is a cheap date isn’t really fair. She has such a bubbly friendly personality that intoxicants are really overkill.

  36. I’ve got to say that I never forgave Cat Stevens for joining the chorus calling for the murder of Salman Rushdie. I don’t mind not hearing him sing.

    Ozzy may have slowed down and done the whole family thing, but at least he never twisted himself into a pretzel of a hypocrite, calling for a murder while singing “Peace Train.”

  37. Pachydiplax,

    Don’t blame the Peregrine.

    And I quote:

    October 30, 2010 at 1:30 pm

    Are you a Shadchan? If you are good luck on finding a minyan around here for the Shena Brachat.

    And I answered his inquiries:

    That no I wasn’t a Matchmaker. We’d not find a minyan around here for a wedding.


    Oh, and it’s raining in San Jose!

  38. gummitch, the ‘Zooey is a drunk’ came from one of the threads that evolved/devolved into a ‘drunken orgy’ kind of thing. Z mentioned she was on her second glass of wine then someone ‘chimed’ in they were drinking… and so on and so on. That’s all it took for the parasitic nematode to twist the whole thing around.

  39. ebb

    I was just testing your knowledge of Hebrew, really. I mean really, really.

    Just call me Pachy, the pontificating, pedantic drowsy, dumb dragonfly. Do you dig darling? 😉

    And I do hope that the beautiful butterfly feels better! 🙂 🙂

  40. Seems the MSM is portraying today’s Rally as more entertainment. As in, its kust a joke, pay no mind to the probability there were more people who attended a Restore Sanity rally than a Restore Honor one.

    So Stewart & Colbert appeal more to America than Glenn?

    • I’m off for the night.

      My head is pounding and drippy, and all I want to do is sleep.

      Hopefully, I’ll feel better tomorrow, and we can have ourselves a password protected Halloween party. 🙂

  41. ebb and Zooey and anyone else who read my 8:48 PM post on last nights Watering Hole thread:

    I remembered the night that Maureen and I went to a restaurant without John. Our mission was to watch what would happen when John arrived with a deaf-blind friend and a third man who was deaf. Johns friend made pretty good money as a braille proofreader for the Library of Congress. He paid his deaf friend to chauffeur him that night and picked up John to go to dinner. I was friends with the owner of the restaurant and was sitting in her office with her and Maureen when the owners 16 year old daughter, a waitress, came barging into the office.

    “Mom, mom, there are three men at my table and they’re all deaf and two of them were blind, ” she told her mother.

    Her mother instructed her to walk over to the man at the head of the table and tap on his shoulder.

    Maureen and I, along with the owner stood near by and watched what transpired.

    When the daughter tapped on the proofreader’s shoulder he turned in his seat and felt for her hand. While holding her hand he spoke in perfect English, telling her he was deaf and blind but that were going to communicate. He instructed her to tap on his arm for a yes and to pinch him for a no like John had taught me to do.

    I a short period of time he had learned that his wait person was a 16 year old girl and he help her overcome her trepidation to the task ahead. He opened a channel of communication new to her, but one that allowed him to order all three meals with detailed instruction into the preparation.of each meal as well as to the arrangement of the food on each plate and how he wanted the plates placed on the table.

    The proofreader was a smooth operator. After the food order was confirmed, the young lady having written down the instructions, he next put in his drink order. He ordered 14 drinks, 2 each for Maureen and me, whom he knew were nearby and 5 each for John and himself. The driver was to only be served ice tea. Next he instructed the waitress to bring the first round of drinks, then to take Maureen’s and my dinner order before turning it over to the kitchen. His final step clinched the deal. He had the waitress figure up the bill so he could prepay it and proceeded to add a $75 tip om a $225 tab. The driver audited the bill first.

    The owners daughter couldn’t help but make sure the food was prepared correctly, properly arranged and placed exactly as requested.

    I couldn’t help but admire that man and his ability to break down the barriers to effective communications between people who can’t have a normal conversation. Unable to see or hear, he was polished communicator, better than many people who have the abilities he lacked.

    That’s my sermon for the night.

    FL 34 GA 31 final.

  42. I was never a fan of Ozzie Osborne but it’s good to hear that he has regained his speech. Didn’t he have a stroke or perhaps it was something else that effected his speech? Thanks for the link, Muse.

    I spent the most of the day in Philadelphia at the Temple football game and then driving around So Philly to “Center City”. I was going to go to the rally until I looked at the calendar and realized that I had this “date” with my husband. He comes first.

    Hope you feel better, Zooey.

  43. I certainly hope Nate Silver is right on this one:

    The other race for governor to show a significant change on Friday night is Oregon, where a new poll from SurveyUSA puts the Democrat, John Kitzhaber, 7 points ahead of Republican Chris Dudley. This poll reflects the largest lead that either candidate has had in any poll of the race since June, and is an improvement for Mr. Kitzhaber from SurveyUSA’s poll two weeks ago, which gave him a 1-point advantage.

    Significantly, SurveyUSA included cellphones in their sample for the first time, and found Mr. Kitzhaber 15 points ahead among that demographic (versus 4 points ahead among landline users). It also found Mr. Kitzhaber leading among those who have already voted.

    It is doubtful that the inclusion of cellphones accounts for all, or even necessarily most, of Mr. Kitzhaber’s gain; some of it is probably statistical noise, particularly given that the partisan breakdown in this particular poll looks fairly Democrat-friendly.

    Still, given that there is some evidence of both a cellphone effect and a ‘robopoll’ effect, one wonders whether there are other states in which polling firms may be slightly underestimating Democratic numbers. This is one of the best and last hopes they have heading into Tuesday.

    • You’re welcome Cats. 🙂

      Gummitch, I have a story about this governor’s race.. Someone from the Dudley camp called me last week. I told them I was a supporter of Kitzhaber and I’d already voted. I asked to be taken off their calling list. No problem he said. The next day started daily repeated phone calls with nobody on the other end. Just hangups. Sometimes up to five times a day. Always with “private caller” on the caller ID — until two days ago. The number that started showing up was the same one. (Same hangup call with nobody on the line). This time I Googled the number, then called it and it went to a recording saying it was the “vote for Kitzhaber” camp, and the recording let you know you could not leave a voice message.. Hmmmmm I says….
      I can’t help wondering if this is a stupid dirty trick (I don’t believe in coincidences) to piss me off at Kitzhaber and the Dems.. That’s how cynical I’ve become. Sounds like a political trick. I am still getting those hangup calls.

  44. The last two election cycles the polls had the Republicans up. Evidently reality is not considered evidence in the media.

  45. Muse, nothing surprises me when it comes to the GOP and dirty tricks. Interesting, my ex was getting similar calls this morning, but I have no idea whether she’d previously been contacted by the Dudley campaign.

  46. I am getting those other camp calls for about the last 2 or 3 days. Each and every one for opponents of a Republican. The same sources seem to be calling our voice link and FAX. All callers seem to block caller id except a few that put up a false name. Both my voice link and FAX record caller ID.

  47. Because of “hang-up” calls, we got a private number a few years ago. Usually, we are not bothered by robo calls except this evening… we received a robo call from (this makes me sick) from Grover Norquest. He started yapping about how Pennsylvanians are over taxed blah, blah, blah… I couldn’t listen to the whole message so I hung up. Yeah, Republicans will do anything to get people angry. Several years ago, there was a Republican female running for a local judgeship and she sent out robo calls to Republicans where people couldn’t hang up. It was a long message and if you put the receiver down and picked it back up, she was still there yapping away. Well, at the polls that year, voters came up to me and told me that they would NOT vote for her because of the phone calls. Muse, I hope something can be done about these calls that you are receiving.

  48. Walt – it’s hard to believe that 2012 is just around the corner. I need to make it through this election. With the PA races being so close, I’m a nervous wreck. Just thinking about Tuesday is making my stomach upset.

  49. Cats,
    I don’t really wind myself in privacy issues. It does seem that the clamps on medical information are getting extreme. I see the day coming when parents will be denied reports on their children’s conditions. My wife and I file cross Powers-of-Attorney with each of our practitioners as well as state and local providers. To my knowledge, there is no federal registry.

  50. The von Mises “Institute” has a couple of pieces about how the lack of government in Somalia is not only awesome, but how attempts to introduce any measure of stability are the real problem.

  51. I see the ‘Institute of Idiocy’ is in Alabama!

    Thanks for bringing that to light this evening glamour. I’ll now have nightmares.

    How are you doing these days?

  52. Regarding privacy, colleges now counsel professors not to discuss student grades &/or standing with their own parents, unless specific written permissions are granted by the student, due to FERPA privacy matters.

    A lot of this is balancing stuff. FERPA came about because of privacy violations that led to some deaths (someone accessed a student’s info, and used that to stalk and kill). Parents are none to happy about this, but as the one’s holding the purse strings are in a position to compel the necessary signatures if they simply will do so.

  53. Good Evening, Gary.

    Generally, aren’t college students of majority age?
    And would that not preclude even the parents/guardians from access and/or discussion without permission?

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