The Watering Hole: November 18 – On the Shoulders of Many

I'm Thinking

I had the weirdest dream on the Sunday to Monday cycle…

In short, I dreamed that humankind had discovered the psyche, a thing like the soul.  There was no God, only a series of existences that could be drawn upon as humanity progressively went through time. New psyches could be created using normal reproductive processes and those psyches passed from the what we call life today into psychic existence.  Psyche society was based on a  discovery of a process which allowed psyches to interact after the death of the physical body.

In my dream, I was chosen as one who could help find the path to a branch of science and fabrication that was critical to the continuance of psyche existence. The effort was called “The Seed”, a quest for the origin of a branch of science, lost in time,  that became unimportant to human psyches at some point in the 21st century.  My contributions became unimportant back in a  time in the 1940’s. The next psyche chosen was that of Edwin Armstrong, the inventor of the circuit designs which, while executed in silicon today were built of coils, plate capacitors,  resistors and vacuum tubes in his time.

Then my dream stopped. I woke up…

This is our Open Thread. Please feel free to add your thoughts on this, or anything else that comes to mind.

Then tonight (Monday), on Jeopardy, a question came up on John Michell. I have heard of him before  as a man and a priest,  who was far ahead of his time in gravitational theory – he theorized about the existence of black holes in 1785 (Plus or minus 2 years). He believed that light could be influenced by gravity – the crux of the matter was that he was right, he believed that photons had mass. He may be right – another explanation for the  missing mass. Could it be that black holes are absorbing photons?

The next point that comes up are the Lorentz Transforms by Hendrik Lorentz in 1887 (Plus or minus 2 years). These predicted that a body of any mass would achieve zero dimensions or time would begin to stop or  reverse should that body  hits or goes beyond the speed of  light.

Since Michaelson and Morley had proven that the speed of light was a constant, Einstein had all of the information needed to develop the Theory of General Relativity (Add Maxwell and stir to actually close the loop.)

In other words, he was nothing more than a hacker born at a correct time with lots of idle time in his job as a patent inspector.

Who knows the boundaries of concepts that marked human progress. Older generation computing machines were used to design and build a next generation of machines. This extends from those that were wired with solder and intense labor to the modern silicon foundries. I might also note that vacuum tubes were built on metallurgy studies performed on analog measurements which  represent a lost technology.

I do say that I have some really strange dreams…

90 thoughts on “The Watering Hole: November 18 – On the Shoulders of Many

  1. That’s fascinating, Walt. I do believe that progress is more incremental than it seems. Each ‘psyche’ pushes the envelope a little further. Although, there are those seeming giant leaps, they would not be possible without those who came before.

    And yes, Cats–that’s disgusting. We make a little progress, and these morons want to drag us back to the Dark Ages. Not just in women’s pay, but in just about any other aspect of science, politics or religion you care to name. *sigh*

  2. Spawz – my husband and I were discussing how the rest of the world is moving forward, particularly some nations in Latin America (both Central and South) while the US is moving backwards. What these forward moving countries do is they don’t get tied up in wars and they don’t get deeply involved in the politics of other nations. Unfortunately, we always seem to be involved in wars and we get deeply involved in the politics of other nations.

  3. By the bye, many of the notions Walt mentions above regarding gravitational physics are open to some dispute.

    (1) The “missing” mass is missing because galactic rotations don’t fit the predicted pattern of the Standard Model of cosmology. Is this a problem of missing mass or of the Standard Model? (“Dark Matter” is the ad hoc hypothesis to account for this “missing mass.” Trouble is, it has entirely defied anything even remotely akin to observation.) There are entire families of alternative theories that do not have these problems, and which appear to fit other observations at least as well as the Standard Model.

    (2) Einstein’s general theory of relativity, by collapsing the relations of geometry into those of physics, creates an unsolvable problem at the very core of gravitational cosmology in the very logic of measurement. There are a couple of semi-technical books on the subject, one of which is actually affordable:

    (3) Besides the issue of mass, the “redshift” basis for measuring distance is falling apart at the seams. For example, NGC7319 is a galaxy that measures some 300 Million L.Y. away. There is a Quasar (“QSO”) in the center of this galaxy, discovered by the Chandra orbital X-ray observatory. We know the QSO is in the center of the galaxy, because we can directly observe the interaction of plasma streams between the two. But the redshift on the QSO measures on the order of 2 BILLION L.Y. distance. Many other problems can be found in the literature.

    (4) The Wilkinson Microwave Anisotropy Probe (“WMAP”) is showing that the Microwave Background Radiation (“MBR”) is non-Gaussian, which means that observations are flat-out contradicting our Einsteinian based Standard Model predictions of how this should be working.

    A comprehensive outline of the problems with the Standard Model can be found in the newsletters of the Alternative Cosmology Group. Whenever I try to post the links directly at TP or Climate Progress, the message gets thrown into the trash bin, so we’ll see what happens here. (The reason I post it at the above places is because gravitational cosmology is an example of a real and ongoing scientific controversy. It stands in sharp relief to climate science denialism, which is a pure fabrication from start to finish.)

    Anyway, I will post the link to the ACG’s newsletters below. The newsletters simply abstract from the peer-review literature, and those abstracts are reasonably readable, so you can get some sense of the scale of the problems with the Standard Model.

    The ACG newsletters:

  4. Yup, it got thrown away. And while I copied my quite long message, I then lost that copy because I copied the ACG website AFTER (and thus overwrote) my message. I’m hoping someone can recover my note from the spam bin, because I’ll be damned if I rewrite it from scratch.

  5. *double grump*

    We’ve been getting snow for 3 days now. My wife’s commute, normally 20 minutes, has been over an hour. Lucky me I work at home so commute is about 10 seconds, snow or not (aside from the shoveling snow time). Unlucky me I have to go and do some work at my wife’s office. Probably an hour of work, maybe two so the commute will take longer!

  6. Don’t mind me, folks; just making a list of all of RoboSlater’s alternative names on TP.

    Personally, I can’t wait for snow, especially now that my place is warmer than it was last year.

  7. Oh, my comment was eaten for the ether’s brunch.

    Hello! Purple State,

    That must be a lengthy list – especially RS having to change names at least twice a day!

    Double paned windows?

  8. I heartily recommend the new book by Stephen Hawking and Leonard Mlodinaw, The Grand Design. It explores the origin issues in understandable detail, and effectively explains the Big Bang without the need to modify quantum theory, only to let it run loose and free. String theory legitimizes the process and makes it mathematically compatible. Oh, and as they both demonstrate and conclude, there is no need to employ a Creator myth — works perfectly well without one.

  9. Looks like there’s some posting weirdness going on. I noticed the same thing the other day–I thought one of my comments had been eaten, but then I refreshed the page again and there it was. Must be some lag going on.

    Dare I mention that it’s sunny and going to be mid-70s here today? Me no do snow and ice. 😛

  10. Gary,
    I only took the allegory up to Einstein with references to what Michell believed. Perhaps I should be a bit more cagey in my language. Also I try to limit my Dailys to a few frames in length.

  11. Oh, and as they both demonstrate and conclude, there is no need to employ a Creator myth — works perfectly well without one.

    frugal, come on now – how can that be? Only gawd could make you think all works perfectly well with out s/he – see how that works? Yeah, neither do I but that was a come back from a ‘born-again’ who told me that it was gawd who allowed me to be an atheist and not believe in ‘him’!

  12. Ever since I was old enough to understand the concept, I have disbelieved the idea that the speed of light was some impenetrable barrier. The disbelief is entirely intuitive since I am not a science/math brained person. Sort of like I intuitively know that Charlton Heston isn’t sitting on a throne of gold in the sky counting falling sparrows.

  13. Its a topic of some professional interest to me, hence that’s why I used the opportunity to talk about it at length.

    I can’t speak for others, but every wordpress based system I go to, the ACG URL is an automatic trip to the spam bin.

  14. For all commenters,

    A statement of the form

    <a href=”″><strong>here</strong></a>

    yields here after submission.

    This is only an example. I keep a text file containing the template for comment sections without link and/or text format options.

  15. Ebb — I’ve found it’s simpler and better to be a non-theist than an atheist. That way, when someone tells me that it’s god who allows me to be an atheist, I can say, “Atheist? Whazzat?” followed by “God? Whazzat?” Make sure the door’s not locked, though.

    Hooda — in re the speed of light being the max, in The Grand Design, Hawking discusses the more recent theory of ‘inflation’ (1980) which allows the universe to have expanded from something one centimeter in diameter to ten million times the width of the Milky Way … in one second. He adds, “That may seem to violate relativity, which dictates that nothing can move faster than light, but that speed limit does not apply to the expansion of space itself.” He carries forward from that point as a means to explain observed abnormalities in the universe which do not conform to standard Einsteinian theory. Fascinating, and definitely not in any way akin to spurious wingnut denials of global warming and evolution!

  16. Gary, I truly enjoy listening to discussions on the subject. Fascinating stuff. And I also remember it wasn’t all that long ago we had no idea that either light or sound had a speed. And, in the case of sound, there was lots of heated debate about being able to exceed it. Until we did it. Exceeding the speed of light is a ways off yet but I am sure we will learn lots of interesting stuff when we do.

  17. Is there room in the Universe for worlds flat as disks carried by four large elephants, carried on the back of a turtle called Great A’Tuin?

    Turtles are more important than you guess, sports fans….

  18. Ooh Youtubey spill overy onto the left….

    Or maybe, there’s trouble at t’mill, one on’t cross beams gone owt askew on treadle

  19. muse, I was wondering about your specific request. I was debating on going and having a special brownie to see if I could get intelligible to work for me.

    My test drive said cool. A little shimmy over 60 and pulled to the right but the Youtube drove just fine.

  20. Well done, ‘Muse! I checked the last Music Night and the clips are back in bounds again. Music Night is saved! ( And The Zoo looks like it should, which is totally professional, until the visitors talk to someone! 😀 )

  21. I don’t usually do this, but this is one of the funniest remarks that I read at TP
    From Hooda
    “Seems Bubbles has abandoned the Tea Baggers as well. Imagine an entire fledgling party being tossed aside like a used condom.”

  22. Muse, the Youtube hospital sketch freeze frame we see in the post has spilled over on to the right of the page – covering the list of archived months.

  23. Cats, it’s people like you who keep old curmudgeon wannabe comedians in business. Well, I suppose I would continue with or without encouragement but it is nice to know someone gets a chuckle out of it.

  24. I just checked and everything is like it should be here!

    Except I keep seeing live college basketball on the sports channels and Alabama plays football tonight. Are y’all sure today isn’t Saturday?

  25. Yesterday my router went out and I was computerless for hours. First House. Then I think Zooey lost connection. Then me. I think it’s a vast rightwing conspiracy.

  26. Shayne: “for the most part today I have no idea what you people are talking about.”

    Would that be the String Theory and light speed part, or would it be the music video somehow not fitting properly somewhere? If it’s the latter, then you and I are in the same boat!

  27. So I have to rant, based solely on my own anecdotal observations.

    The press gives way more time to STILL minority leader (and will REMAIN minority leader) Mitch McConnel than to the CURRENTLY and STILL TO BE IN THE MAJORITY leader Reid.

    Thank-you for listening. 🙂

  28. I agree Zooey. And I love how the media are really treating the lame-duck session as if the Republicans already took over.

    Sadly, most Americans probably don’t know the difference.

  29. Can you imagine what it would be like to be a reasonably honest journalist who has to choose between the Ballless Wonder and Turtleboy when trying to put up some sort of program?

    I can’t and I suspect neither can they. Therefore MSM no longer employs journalists. They all have dreams of hosting ET.

  30. Went to court today to collect money owed to me by a former client. I will receive the magistrate’s decision in the form a letter in the mail. Win or lose, I still consider this a win for me because the woman that owes me $400.00 paid more than that in lawyer fees. She could have just paid me on a monthly basis (installment plan) but she chose to fight paying me and pay the lawyer instead. My $400 is a tax deduction (loss in income) whereas her lawyer fees are not.

    • That is awesome, Cats!!

      That’s one stupid woman you were dealing with. Let me guess, she has plenty of money to pay you, she just didn’t think she should have to.

  31. Good for you Cats. The one guy who stiffed us when I asked my lawyer he sent a letter and did nothing else and I didn’t know what to do. Next time I’ll check with you.

  32. I’m having Thanksgiving here so everything I touch turns to shit. I just dropped a Yankee Candle on my laundry room floor. Genius.

  33. California goes to it’s citizen-based redistricting plan. Hopefully the end of gerrymandering. But we shall see how it goes.

    I’d love to see the boundaries just drawn up in simple shapes to divide up the population evenly and fairly. No more having long, narrow districts, that span four counties that have little do with each other.

    If it works out well, I’d love for this to be a model for other states to follow.

      • I just watched a really uncomfortable exchange on HardBall (with Michael Smerconish hosting) between Jonathan Turley and George Pataki over this trial in N.Y., and the outcome. Also, the discussion went to the word “torture”. Pataki really got offended by it being called torture and not “enhanced interrogation”, but then sort of tried to say that they have every right to do it.. Pataki kept interrupting Turley and was really angry. Turley just kept trying to make the point that we are a country based on the rule of law, and it is just so important that we try these people using our justice system, having it be open and transparent. Otherwise, the terrorists win. I got the feeling that Pataki was furious with the outcome. He didn’t want these people to have trials—period. He would probably as soon take them all out, line them up and shoot them.. (my words). It was like ALL of his hatred went into this ONE defendant. He was enraged that he was acquitted on over 280 counts, and only convicted on one count., even though this man will spend between 20 – life in prison. He kept calling him a terrorist and accused him of being responsible for the deaths of all those people in that embassy bombing. He kept bringing up 9/11. Turley just kept shaking his head and smiling. When Turley WAS allowed to talk, he tried to inject some reason, some historical context ( John Adams when he defended those men after the Boston Massacre), and he talked about how this system of trying terrorists in our Federal Court system is already working, that he had already participated in over a hundred trails with success. Pataki wasn’t having any of it. I thought he would have a stroke..

  34. zxbe – thanks for the link. The California plan sounds like a good idea. I’m afraid that Pennsylvania is going to look like a jigsaw puzzle where the Representative will not truly represent the people.

  35. I didn’t know until just now that Alabama’s opponent tonight, Georgia State, is in it’s first year as a football program. The reason Alabama put them on their schedule? Georgia State’s inaugural head coach, Bill Curry, was head coach at Alabama from 1987 to 1989!

    Of course, this game isn’t meant to be competitive, Alabama plays Auburn a week from tomorrow. Auburn has the weekend off this week. This is the next best thing, as ‘Bama will have the subs in early in this one.

  36. I saw that muse. Pataki would barely let Turley speak. And then he called him “the professor” like he isn’t really a constitutional lawyer. What a jerk.

  37. The SUPER FUCKING RICH in Congress have no idea how the rest of us live. Glad I didn’t watch Hardball this evening. Sounds like something that would only make my blood boil. There’s something wrong with Republican brains. The neurons don’t fire properly.

  38. “you can’t change the system just because you don’t like the outcome”

    This works for the study of cosmology as well as it does for our system of law. We’re all standing on the shoulders of many, on those who first decided that if justice were to err, it should err in the favor of mercy, on the shoulders of the women who first said “I need a voice in governance”, on the shoulders of every human who tried to improve the lot of their fellows. We must refuse to go backwards, and not become discouraged is progress is halting and uneven.

  39. Shoot, my mom always said “You can put your shoes in the oven, but it won’t make ’em biscuits”.

    Pachy, if it gets down to freezing, as it will here tonight, you can have eggnog with your rum.

  40. Bundle up, Pachy~

    51 degrees – be sure to pull out the woolies; afghans and quilts. oh, and you may need a ‘night cap’ (Dickens style) to go with your night-cap of rum.

  41. Jon Stewart is doing a take off on Glenn Beck, its a riot.

    When it gets cold here, like now, I’m forced to wear shoes, and underwear under my kilt. I hate having cold balls…. of my feet.

  42. Zooey, my mom gets more interesting as I sort through her estate. She not only lied about her age in order to hide that she married my father at 15, she apparently “lived in sin” with my step-father for some time after she claimed to be married.

  43. Hey, TtT in disguise!


    Just testing to see if the video shows or just the url:

Leave a Reply

Please log in using one of these methods to post your comment: Logo

You are commenting using your account. Log Out /  Change )

Google photo

You are commenting using your Google account. Log Out /  Change )

Twitter picture

You are commenting using your Twitter account. Log Out /  Change )

Facebook photo

You are commenting using your Facebook account. Log Out /  Change )

Connecting to %s