Watering Hole – Monday, June 13, 2011 – While the Gotcha and Gossipy Media

Was focused on Weiner’s weiner, an important terrorist trial began in Chicago, IL.  David Coleman Headley, a confessed American terrorist and Pakistani spy, was testifying in the trial of Tahawwur Rana.  Headley is the star witness against Rana, his childhood friend.

Besides admitting to being one of the masterminds of the Mumbai terrorist attacks, Headley also worked for the DEA.  So instead of facing the death penalty, Headley is spilling the beans.  Then again, Headley is a known manipulator and liar so the outcome of this trial will be dependent upon whether the jury believes Headley or not.

Here’s some interesting links to this story.  From The Daily Beast.  And from an interview on Here and Now on PRI.

UPDATE:  Since I originally created this post (Thursday afternoon), the trial of Rana Tahawwur has concluded.  Rana was found guilty on two charges and he was found not guilty for the Mumbai charge.  Seems like the jury didn’t believe Headley’s testimony.

This is our Open Thread.  Here’s your chance to Speak Up!  Gotcha and Gossip accepted.

174 thoughts on “Watering Hole – Monday, June 13, 2011 – While the Gotcha and Gossipy Media

  1. Viewpoints: Racist cartoon of Obama forces me to leave GOP By Ken Barnes

    I was one of those rare species: a black Republican, the guy willing to spit into the wind of conventional thought, who was often showcased on camera at party events to prove inclusiveness.

    • Interesting.

      I love the fact that Barnes complains that he felt sidelined as a “center right” member of the Democratic Party in 1998

      Interesting also that he’s only just recently noticed GOP racism when it has been particularly prevalent since the 1990s (I;d argue in the 50s, 60s and 70s both Parties contained significant numbers of racist members, from the condescending sort to the rabid).

      So now he’s becoming an “independent” ? Given the extent of his activism on behalf of his Republican colleagues, it seems to me he’s just hedging his bets in an uncertain political environment where whilst Obama isn’t doing that great, the Republicans are nonetheless pissing off a lot of the electorate. the very racist and loony Teabaggers are splitting the GOP base and none of the Republican presidential hopefuls have the combination of charisma, coherence of policy and the firm support of the usual Republican king-makers and FOX news that they need.

  2. National Archives and Presidential Libraries Release Pentagon Papers
    Washington, DC…On June 13, 2011, the National Archives and the Kennedy, Johnson and Nixon Presidential Libraries will release in its entirety the official Report of the Office of the Secretary of Defense Vietnam Task Force (commonly referred to as the Pentagon Papers). This is the 40th anniversary of the leak of these Papers by the New York Times. Approximately 2,384 pages or 34% of the Report will be opened for the first time as compared to the Senator Gravel Edition of the Pentagon Papers, the most common benchmark used in Pentagon Papers discussions.

    Opening Information:
    Beginning June 13, each library and the Research Room at the National Archives facility in College Park, MD will have hard copies of the papers available for review, beginning at 12 noon EDT in College Park and at the Kennedy Library, 11 AM CDT at the Johnson Library, and 9 AM PDT at the Nixon Library. The materials will also be available online at http://www.archives.gov/research/pentagon-papers/ June 13, at 12 noon EDT.

          • I just read the NYT review of the Area 51 book you’ve been mentioning. Very very interesting.

            Two Air Force officials once found themselves on a panel with members of the Civilian Saucer Investigations Organization of Los Angeles.”

            I recall I’ve seen/heard some Air Force colonel ( I think) once explain that USAF in part promoted UFO stories to obscure the real activities at A-51. Of course that could have been misinformation too. to obscure the ‘actual’ UFO/alien research (this all relates to the ‘Majestic’ program).

            It seems impossible to discern fact from fiction regarding Area 51 and the passage of time only makes it more difficult, however I can suggest a model that might represent in a small way what the place is all about and why it is the subject of apparent fantasy:

            Consider that in 1939 Germany flew the first jet aircraft and that by 1944 was deploying the V-2 supersonic ballistic missile, because-of and despite the circumstances of war. The US meanwhile was given a couple of British Whittle jet engines which they used to develop the Bell XP-59.in 1941, which had a top speed of 413 MPH, a speed little better than the piston-engined DH. Mosquito of 1943.
            The Bell X-1 broke the sound barrier in 1946 reaching 957 MPH, but as it was just a piloted rocket that had to be launched from a ‘motherplane’ it wasn’t really that spectacular an achievement.
            What was phenomenal was the A-12/SR-71,which began development in 1958 and first flown in 1962. It was truly a fantastic aircraft, and remains officially .the fastest piloted jet ever built and used in service. . Given that practical accomplishment, one can only imagine what goes on at Area 51 that is simply research and experimental.


            . .


    Closeted Republican Senator Lindsey Graham on CBS’ Face the Nation: (June 12)

    “If it made sense to protect the Libyan people against Gadhafi, and it did because they were going to get slaughtered if we hadn’t sent NATO in* when he was on the outskirts of Benghazi, the question for the world [is], have we gotten to that point in Syria,”

    Graham should pose that question to his Republican colleagues who immediately demanded Obama act in support of the Libyan rebels, complained that he wasn’t doing anything and now criticize Obama for having done what they wanted,
    * : The US DIDN’T “send NATO in”

    “It has gotten to the point where Gadhafi’s behavior and Assad’s behavior are indistinguishable, You need to put on the table all options, including a model like we have in Libya.”

    Indeed, And shouldn’t the US and NATO also get militarily involved in Yemen,and Bahrain? Never mind that Graham was a major supporter of the Iraq invasion, a supporter of “the Surge” which he insisted was “working”, (obviously it didn’t) and presently insists that the US should stay in Iraq–all whilst blaming Obama for the lack of economic progress instead of the tactics of obstruction and the bitching about government spending and deficits that his Party has employed and continues to employ.

    Senator graham If it made sense to support the invasion and occupation of Iraq based on fictional evidence provided by your ideological compatriots, and contrary to both US and International law that has resulted in tens or hundreds of thousands of Iraqis killed and injured, why the fuck are you now posing a moral question regarding Syria?

    • “It has gotten to the point where Gadhafi’s behavior and Assad’s behavior are indistinguishable . . .” from the behavior of most if not all GOP presidential possibilities, not to mention the bulk of the GOP contingent in the House and Senate along with the entire of the so-called Tea Party.

      Where’s NATO when we really need them?

      • The question is, what is NATO’s mission these days, since the collapse of the USSR?

        Furthermore, the actions of NATO is subject to the political situations of its member states at any given time–it is not a monolithic organization with a definitive singular authority, it is run by committee and participation in any proposed action is entirely optional.

        Of late the US has acted arbitrarily and then when it gets into trouble, demands NATO assistance, which it complains about when it does receive it. Furthermore have you noticed how it is reported that “NATO forces regret the killing of Afghan civilians in a helicopter attack” when in fact most of those incidents have been by US forces?

        Most of the NATO members have populations and politicians that have known war on their own soil which the US hasn’t since 1865, hence they tend to be less eager to commit there forces, especially in the service of some arbitrary poorly conceived adventure of mostly American interest.

        • NATO was a God send for the military industrial complex. I’m not surprised that Robert Gates recently criticized NATO members for not stocking up on enough weapons of death and destruction. Gates must have gotten pressured by Lockheed-Martin and others….

          • good to see you IP

            Gates’ departing rhetoric seems like pure petulance and utterly agenda driven instead of being rational constructive criticism.

            I don;t know the balance of business between the US and NATO countries, but, for example—

            Here are some US products used and license-built by NATO nations:
            Lockheed C-130 Hercules heavy transport plane. The L1011 and MD11 as multi-role jet tanker/troop transport/modular cargo planes. The F-104, F-4, F-5, F-16 and F-18 fighter jets.
            Practically every military Sikorsky model helicopter built since 1949—the Chickasaw, the Choctaw, the Sea King, the Huey, the Chinook and Stallion HLH’s. Sidewinder and Sparrow missiles. Tomahawk cruise missiles. Trident SLBMS. E-3 AWACS/Sentry(leased), Apache attack chopper. Bunches of other stuff.

            Here are some Euro/NATO products used by the US: Royal Ordinance Factory 105 mm Howitzer; Rheinmetall smooth-bore 120mm cannon for Abrams tank; British-invented Ceramic/reactive armor for Abrams. MRAAP vehicles. Roland Ground to Air missiles. Various Bofors low caliber rapid-fire naval guns. EH-146 light/medium helicopter. Harrier “Jump-Jet”. T-45 Goshawk (BAE Hawk) aircraft carrier advanced jet trainer.

            If Gates’s bitching is really about angling for a job with the MIC it seems unnecessary to me, given his career with the CIA and especially as Sec Def—-he’s a shoo-in—-so maybe what he said is really his personal opinion, in which case I’m unimpressed with his grasp of .the factors affecting US and NATO actions and relationships, in which case good riddance to him. .


  4. The good ole U.S.A….A country where many of it’s citizens believe they were anointed by God to spread democracy and our values across the globe, yet we ship prisoners from the war on terrorism to one of our alleged enemies, Syria, to be tortured and interrogated.

  5. Ever wonder if the uprisings in Egypt, Tunisia, Libya and Syria weren’t helped along by the CIA? What better way to get regime change. It seems the neocons and neolibs are taking a page from the CIA’s strategy in Iran/1953.

  6. American values? There are seven of them. Seven. Dante called them the Seven Deadly Sins, listed below in his “Inferno” order. Today’s “American values” interpretation needs little or no explanation; the list perfectly summarizes the “attributes” of American corporatism/fascism as currently practiced, particularly by the right side of the political spectrum.


  7. And, winner in the category of ‘couldn’t get dumber if it tried’, Republichaosian Dana Rohrabacher on Baghdad paying reparations for being occupied (found today on C&L)
    BAGHDAD (AFP) – Iraqi authorities have asked for a US congressman to leave the country after he called for Baghdad to repay part of the money spent by Washington since the 2003 invasion, a spokesman said on Saturday.

    Republican representative Dana Rohrabacher’s remarks at a news conference in Baghdad stood in stark contrast to those by senior American officials, who have pressed Iraqi officials to decide soon whether they want US troops to stay beyond a year-end withdrawal deadline.

    quoting this recalcitrant dufus:
    “Once Iraq becomes a very rich and prosperous country… we would hope that some consideration be given to repaying the United States some of the mega-dollars that we have spent here in the last eight years,” Rohrabacher told journalists at the US embassy on Monday.

    I recall something about oil, and milkshakes…

    • One thing I’m sure Rohrabacher must be pleased about in re Iraq: They’ve apparently done as he suggested a week or two ago and solved their carbon emissions problem by logging off all of their forests! The world will benefit, I’m sure.

      What a stupid shit. Which district in CA does he represent, anyway? Can’t imagine where in CA an idiot like him could even get on the ballot, much less get elected.

      • “The Fightin’ 46th!”

        Congressman Dana Rohrabacher represents California’s scenic 46th District. Stretching along the Pacific coastline of Orange County and Los Angeles from Huntington Beach to the Palos Verdes Peninsula, the district includes Huntington Beach, Costa Mesa, Fountain Valley, Seal Beach, Avalon, Rancho Palos Verdes, Rolling Hills, Palos Verdes Estates and Rolling Hills Estates as well as portions of Long Beach, Westminster, Santa Ana and San Pedro.


        • Ah yes, THAT part. I should have guessed. Orange County politics can quite easily be viewed as a reincarnation of late 1930’s Nazi Germany. Lots of money, lots of intolerance, and their major airport in Santa Ana is named after John Wayne. Yuk.

  8. OK, how about a Top Ten Stories the brain dead American media should have covered instead of getting all frothy over someone’s todger in a pair of skivvies

  9. Tired of Rush Limbaugh’s attacks on her programs against childhood obesity; Michelle Obama suggested Rush go __________________.

    “Back to the Dominican Republic and crawl into a bottle of oxy with one of your boy toys and shut the hell up!

  10. So ummm, some treasure hunter salvage guy named Bill Warren is supposedly planning to go look for Bin Laden’s body because

    “we (him and his buddies) are patriotic Americans and feel that President Obama failed to provide the proof.” Bill adds, “I do not trust my government or Obama.”

    Warren: “We intend to locate/recover his body and photograph and video tape him, then do a DNA test on the ship.”

    Quite apart from the clear underlying illogic behind Warren’s plan ( if he doesn’t find the body, then Bin Laden wasn’t killed), just how does Warren expect to locate the body, and even if he finds the body why would he then undermine his own position that he doesn’t trust Obama? Furthermore, where is he going to get the DNA from?

    Could it be this guy is just a complete asshole looking to drum up publicity for his company and himself?


    • Quite apart from the clear underlying illogic behind Warren’s plan ( if he doesn’t find the body, then Bin Laden wasn’t killed)

      Worse. If he doesn’t find the body, then that is supposed to be proof that it isn’t there? What if it got swallowed by, oh, I don’t know, say “a great fish”? I’ve heard about those things. 😉

      Better yet, what if he never looks anywhere near the right spot? Does he think the government is going to tell him where they dumped the body, if the entire point of burying him at sea was to deny his followers a chance to create shrine to him?

      He may very well be what you called him “A complete asshole,” but he’s also a stupid asshole. And why should anyone believe what he ends up concluding?

      • Yes, all that you say, Wayne. Maybe he’s really trying to pitch .for a reality show, and needs the Bin Laden angle to get one?
        A shipwreck treasure hunting show is Nat Geo ‘special’ territory, not much money in it, but a special on The Fake Hunt For Bin Laden That Proves Obama Is Lying Muslin would provide a Regnery book deal, a FOX special and sell lot of bumper stickers and tee-shirts to Teabaggers.

  11. Summers Wants New Stimulus, For Employers!

    Former White House aide Larry Summers on Sunday urged expanded tax cuts on U.S. workers’ wages, warning that America’s economy was at risk of years of Japan-style stagnation without a further boost

    “Fiscal support should be continued and indeed expanded by providing the payroll tax cut to employers as well as employees,” Summers wrote.

    Aren’t these the same corporations that are sitting on a trillion dollars, waiting for demand to return to US markets before they invest in expansion and hire new workers? Why increase the deficit to give them more money to sit on?

    • Calls for payroll tax cuts are just a right-wing way of destroying Social Security by defunding it. Tax cuts do not stimulate the economy nearly as much as food stamps and unemployment benefits, both of which get spend virtually in their entirety. Tax cuts get put into savings or are used to pay down credit card debt, neither of which is particularly helpful to an economy that needs people to spend more.

      Crikey, I never took a class in Economics and yet I seem to understand that better than Summers.

      • Wayne, as I under stand it, the worker payroll tax cut is being reimbursed to Social Security from the general fund. What Summers wants to do is extend it for the workers, but add the employers to the program. Social Security would still get the same money, with an increase to the deficit. We all know that is DOA in the House.

    • House…” Aren’t these the same corporations that are sitting on a trillion dollars, waiting for demand to return to US markets before they invest in expansion and hire new workers?”

      Umm, I don;t think they ARE doing what you say, I think they are a) hoarding the money privately AND examining investments overseas. They want to avoid any chance of a corporate tax hike so they have to sabotage the US economy until after the 2012 elections. At the same time though, a depressed US economy in turn affects the export economies of nations which service the US import economy. but these people are so freaking rich they can afford to just sit on their piles of protected cash, play hardball with Obama, and take a small hit in investment earnings in the meantime, for much bigger rewards of money and power in the near future. ( 2013)

  12. MAJOR hathos alert. This is NOT from The Onion:

    “Back into our lives rode Sarah of Alaska, Maid of the Bering Sea, devoured, ogled and debated by the masses. She is our modern Joan of Arc, dressed in black leather chaps, hunting camo or fishing boat slicker, unafraid to mount her steed, whether a Harley or a snow machine. She is a woman, bloody hands, capable of any man’s task — even that Holy Grail of politics with which no woman has ever been entrusted.

    Unlike sister St. Joan, Sarah does not pass herself as a man. She can do any man’s work, without ceding an ounce of her gas station pin-up babe good looks. But in most else, she shares with sister St. Joan. Driven by visions from God and destined for sainthood by way of a burning at the stake, Sarah is misunderstood here in her own lifetime.”


    • “Back into our lives rode Sarah of Alaska…”

      surely this is snark by some wiley lefty miscreant, (a Wonkette contributor? It’s just too erudite and poetic the reference to the Bering Sea seems too arcane for a real Sarah fan? St Joan is a Catholic icon—I know it might be an expedient choice of reference but teabaggers tend to co-opt more contemporary movie -based symbolism and mostly fictional—Red Dawn, Batman, 300….

      Also, whilst pseudo-victimization is part of the right-wing canon, actual martyrdom is not, because a martyr is a loser (dead) whereas a ‘victim’ is unfairly injured but alive and capable and/or deserving of revenge.

      On the other hand, Palinistas are a batty lot so maybe it is genuine.

      • Ah, but Joan of Arc didn’t have to deal with a lamestream media with it’s gotcha questions about reading newspapers and such, and don’t forget that Palin of Wasilla has to hold down several jobs just to make ends meet—-absent mother, part time governor, part time twitter-twit, full time Palin, AND she doesn;t even get her own media empire–all she gets is her part time recurring analyst guest spot on Fox.

  13. U.S. Foresees $46 Billion in 2011 Military Sales

    The United States plans to export $46.1 billion in weapons this year, nearly doubling its 2010 figures, officials said June 10.

    During the fiscal year 2011, which ends Sept. 30, Washington expects the sales of equipment and military services through its Foreign Military Sales process. About 79 percent of these exports are financed by client countries and organizations, with the remainder funded by U.S. aid programs.

    In all, over 13,000 contracts are currently underway with 165 countries for $327 billion, according to Landay.

    It is astounding to me we have such a backlog of work for export to foreign governments. Maybe I still have a chance to get back into the workforce.

    • The United States plans to export $46.1 billion in weapons this year, nearly doubling its 2010 figures, officials said June 10.

      USA, FUCK YEAH!!!

    • On that news, I thought the F-35 might now be mature-enough and might account for a significant chunk, but a quick search of news ( and Jane’s) reveals no news about production or even pre-production evaluation/test aircraft for foreign clients ( UK and Spain for instance), so yeah, that is pretty astounding.

      Of course these contracts involve more than just explodey things—there’s surveillance, maintenance services, training, and psy-ops expertise on sale as well.
      Given the state of the US economy and thus the world economy, who and why is spending all this money on military products, and where? Is this the beginning of an arms-race? Also this kind of activity usually doesn’t occur without some bribes. .

      • The post WWII arms race was a real boon to the MIC. I remember the screams of anguish when, after the collapse of the USSR, there was talk of a “peace dividend.” Didn’t take HW Bush long to solve that little minor irritation, but then came Clinton and more suffering. Finally Dubsy fixed the problem once and for all with two wars as part of the never-ending and eternal “war on terror.” All is well, now, in MIC-land, and for reasons I can’t begin to fathom, neither Obama nor the Democrats are willing to stand forth and FUCKING DO SOMETHING ABOUT IT!

        Makes me wonder if someone — a voice from a black hole, maybe — has explained to them on no uncertain what will happen to them if they even TRY to cut the warmongering and the black ops budgets.

        • Sounds very reasonable to me, frugal. And the threat doesn’t have to be direct, indeed such a threat would be more efficacious if applied to advisers and underlings ( a more ovsure trail of influence that way too).

          In the early days of Obama’s admin,I expressed at TP and also here,I think, that Obama faced a real problem with the entrenched and significantly empowered-under-Bush/Cheney intelligence/military community regarding curtailing, let alone rolling-back Gitmo, torture, Iraq/Afghanistan involvement, the Internet-tapping that Bush cockily admitted-to, the Patriot Act and more.
          Even if Obama weren’t actually so idealistically conciliatory as his rhetoric and actions have so often indicated he would have had a even harder time trying to get anything done for the average American because these interests would have pushed back mightily from the shadows and of course Obama had a tough enough situation dealing with the corporatist media and ordinary political opposition even more rabid and powerful than that which Clinton faced, AND under the debilitating circumstances of inheriting “The Great Recession” combined with inherited concurrent wars/occupations of no more use and practically the same length as the Vietnam War .

          So who knows what secret ealities Obama has had to confront privately that may have tempered his actions, that won’t become public knowledge for at least 50 years from now, if ever?

      • I’m getting a bad feeling about the whole F-35 program. The stuff that’s been released indicates that it’s overweight, overpriced, and behind schedule. Plus the engine isn’t anywhere near its predicted performance. One can’t help but make comparisons to the FB-111 which, like the F-35, was supposed to do everything and wasn’t able to do much of anything well. When I first started reading about it I thought they were screwing the pooch. I don’t care how much technology has advanced; I just don’t see how a single airframe can replace the F-16, A-10, F-18, and Harrier.

        • And the Ff-117—don;t forget the stealth technology.

          Given that the F-35 was supposed to be the Toyota Sedan to the Lexus Sport Coupe of the F-22 and the F-22 apparently can’t complete a race track circuit, it;s no surprise the F-35 can’t manage a trip to the shops, given the shared elements of design combined with the respective inclusion of cutting edge technology thrown in as features that are actually serious bugs.

          Both aircraft fail because of hubris–they are both technology demonstrators being touted as deployable systems.

  14. In all, over 13,000 contracts are currently underway with 165 countries for $327 billion, according to Landay.

    Wow. Just imagine how many Central and South American revolutions this here “shining city on the hill” can finance with THAT pile of dough!

    • Just picked up Perkins ‘Secret History of the American Empire’…. expecting to be reading a lot about the Monroe Doctrine.

      On a similar subject, went to Greg Palast recently, first time in a while. He’s been busy with BP and with Chevron. http://www.gregpalast.com/chevron-runs-from-judgmentin-ecuador/

      Check out the stpry about the similar incident with the cement in Azerbaijan *before* the DWH last year… I’m trying to get some corroboration from my contacts at ‘Big Pocket’

      • Charlie: “Governor Palin, do you support the Monroe Doctrine?”

        Sarah: (glazed stare….) “”In what respect?”

        Charlie: “Well, what do you interpret it to be?”

        Sarah: “I believe that every president should have a recording of Marilyn Monroe singing ‘Happy Birthday’ to them.”

  15. Right, well. I have to spend some time seeing if I can improve the reliability and performance of my non- dump truck series of tubes, so adios for a while, fellow critters, and thanks as usual for all the interesting stuff this morning.

    • We should have a little pool. Who will be the first to:

      Spit foam from their mouth. Turn their heads a full 360 degrees. Speak in tongues. Condemn everyone else on the stage to Hell. Walk off the stage because the moderator wants them to answer a question. Whip out a Buybull. Whip out a gun…

      Not to mention whether they will be wearing flag pins, big gold crosses, or both.

          • I love the lyrics, Wayne. Our basement band features some Aerosmith fans and could probably take a stab at it but I can’t come anywhere near Steve Tyler. The only Aerosmith tune we usually do is a slightly grungier version of “Walkin’ the Dog”. It suits my godawful caterwauling.

      • What about first round of pearl-clutching. Shelly or Newt?

        First one to name-drop Bible Spice

        First one to say Osama instead of Obama

        First one to call Obama a terrorist and lie about ‘1967’s indefensible Israeli borders’ (oops what UN resolutions)

        Keep em coming

        • And how many times will they make the “Osama” “Obama” mistake?

          First one to use Barack’s middle name.

          First one to use the word Obamacare.

          First one to lie about jobs figures.

          First one to call Obama the worse president in history.

          • F irst one to sya that tax cuts create jobs/increase revenues

            First one to say “Reagan cut taxes”

            First one to say “I’ve got my birth certificate, right here!”

            First one to say “Actually I am a Qook from the planet Zog and I have taken human form – here’s my birth certificate!” (Vomits over its podium)

            First Weiner joke

        • First one to mention “our nation’s Christian founding”…

          First one to blame Obama for the recession/depression…

          First one to use the word “crazy” in reference to one of the other candidates…

      • Questions you won’t hear (but maybe should) tonight?

        Do you support moving Israel’s capital to Jerusalem and do you think this makes Jesus come back faster?

        Or another way: do you think that American foreign policy should be guided by anything which advances the return of Christ?

        Would you give a cabinet post to a muslim?

        • “Will you knowingly hire any gay people to work for you?”

          “Do you support Man-Dog marriage?” (Rick Santorum only.)

          “Will you choose an imaginary friend as your running mate?”

          “Does this look infected to you?”

          “Could you open this jar for me?”

          “If a train leaves New York headed toward Boston going sixty miles per hour…”

        • “Do atheists have rights under the Constitution?”

          “Will you admit, on this stage tonight, that the movie ‘Atlas Shrugged, Part 1’ sucked out loud?”

          “If I told you you had a terrific body, would you hold it against me?”

          “New in town, Sailor?”

    • That would be 7pm at my house. It’s on CNN right? Spitzer gets a long weekend.

      Ahead of time, we need to develop a ratings system to keep score. Which one says cut taxes, or, we don’t have a revenue problem, we have a spending problem, invoking God, that sort of thing. Bonus points for starting a response with ‘the American people want (or don’t want).

      • I’d make it a drinking game, but I don’t want us all to land the ER. 😀

        Would you guys like to work on that while I fill out these stupid job applications?

        • It would definitely be too dangerous as a drinking game. Extremists have a nasty habit of repeating themselves endlessly. I do enjoy the various suggested categories though. About all that I could add would be;

          Who will be the first to hold up a pocket Constitution while quoting the Declaration of Independence, the Buybull, Atlas Shrugged, or Mein Kompf?

  16. I’ll be at TommytheTurtle’s karate – I can read it, but not post much. Please oh please let them all climb out of the same car….

    • From your link

      When the world did not end, Camping told reporters that the world would instead end Oct. 21 and argued that despite no physical evidence to the contrary, his point of view was correct.

      In the same way that 2 + 2 equals 5 if you allow the + operator,to equal superimposition ( thus functioning as a logical AND operation) and then reversing the now singular-looking 2 horizontally and then also vertically so the 2 is upside-down and mirrored, and then if you squint it really looks like a 5 and then you take the ‘+’ sign and treat the horizontal line as a minus and the vertical line as a 1 then you get 2 plus 2 = 5 minus 1 = 4,, which is correct.

      I don;t give a shit about Camping’s deluded followers who are now praying to the God that gave him a stroke, but the reporter gets a sarcastic handclap from for being so cowardly as to not explicitly note Campings obvious fraud, the insanity and stupidity of his followers and that of the religious community as a whole that has such an extraordinary and debilitating effect on us all— on agnostics, other idiotic believers of other religions, atheists and of course on his own followers such as the moron in New York who blew his $150k life savings on bus-shelter Armageddon ads, believing perhaps that he was doing a public service? That STUPID FUCK is now no doubt going to avail himself of the secular welfare system instead of demanding recompense from ca recompense from Camping as per the Holey Babble–“an eye for an eye”..
      ads o

  17. “The poor have sometimes objected to being governed badly; the rich have always objected to being governed at all.”

    The Man Who Was Thursday by G. K. Chesterton ~ 1908.

    • Brilliant! Thanks for that! And from 1908 no less, roughly circa the “The Gilded Age” of the US and pretty much the cusp of the Edwardian/Victorian Era for the UK, both of which arguably represented as great a divide between the rich and the rest, at least in terms of scale/ratio ( more and richer ‘rich’ and many more poor).

    • My favorite Chesterton:

      “The business of Progressives is to go on making mistakes. The business of Conservatives is to prevent mistakes from being corrected.” ~G. K. Chesterton

      • Frugal, you are rocking with the GK quotes!

        A quick review of Chesterton on Wikipedia suggests to me that he was a very clever contrarian rather than a man who held fundamental insights about anything in human nature that should be acted upon in order to establish a more ideal or at least commonly equitable human existence and experience.

        I’ve never read him. Clearly I should. I only heard of him at all because of Ripping Yarns!

  18. Bonus points for starting a response with ‘the American people want (or don’t want)

    That would be every last one of the ‘candidates’ in that ‘debate’.


    I’m envisioning Batsh!t Crazy sporting a cross as an accessory this evening!
    (if it were Palin in the fray – she’d have a difficult time wearing both Star of David and a crucifix around her neck)

  19. Found on Firedoglake today:
    Schneiderman Begins Probe of Bank of America Securitization Fail
    Looks like the AG of NY state is going to go after BofA for falsely securitizing home loans.
    This could be major league…
    Here’s the link.
    BofA in deep shit

  20. The Pentagon Papers Released

    Four decades after the most significant leaks of classified material in American history, the Pentagon Papers have remained classified — until now. Read the full archive of the declassified documents as released by the National Archives and Records Administration.

  21. Oh, dear! The local paper, finally, wrote an article that discusses some of Batscat Bachmann’s drawbacks. So? The Reichwhiners are screaming “bias” and “smear”. But that’s not the odd part. The odd part is that Crazy Shelly can’t garner enough support to sway the votes on the comments while Bible Spice has a few hundred pet supporters around the country who show up on any story about the awful woman from Alaska. I’m not ready to relax but it is encouraging that the Minnesota knock-off can only muster a couple dozen fans in her home state’s largest paper.


    • Lots of right wing whiners post at the Star. The only reason they like crazy Shelly is because they think she drives liberals crazy, oh and she was told by God to run for political office too…

      Sad thing is, she hasn’t done squat for the people of the sixth district since she first came to Washington DC. Her district leads the State in foreclosures but has crazy Shelly tried to push any legislation through? I asked my sister, who worships Bachmann about that and she of course replied “Well, she’s only one person”

      I told her yeah, but has she even offered any type of bill to help homeowners keep their homes? She than asked what Obama has done and I mentioned the horrendous HAMP program but pointed out…”He is just one person…” 😉

      • Batshit doesn’t drive liberals crazy! We’re too busy laughing at her stupidity.

        It’s interesting that Batshit’s constituents are satisfied with her inactivity in DC, just because they think she’s driving us nuts. Well, sad is a better word…

      • There are plenty of Reichwhiners that post there but Batscat Shelly only seems to have 25-30 fans. My guess is that most of those who vote for her watch SaudiFAUX “News” or nothing at all. I figure they probably aren’t bad people; just unsophisticated. All they need to hear is that she’s a “good Christian” at church and she gets their votes. Since I live mere blocks outside her district I run into her fans from time to time.

        My favorite was a gal that works at the local Cub Foods. They had CFLs on sale for a buck a piece so I stocked up. While Bachmann gal was checking me through she wrapped a plastic bag around her hand before she touched them, in their sealed packages, and gravely informed me that they were “dangerous”. I asked her if Shelly Bachmann told her that and she said “yes”. So? I pointed at the banks of 8 foot tubes over her head and informed her that each of them had hundreds of times as much mercury as a CFL and we’ve been using them safely for 6 decades or so. Her only response was to blink a few times and say “but these (CFLs) are dangerous”. Well? I realize that it’s impossible to argue with someone so fixated and I let her off the hook and went about my business.

    • Oh man, Monday the Thirteenth. The day when Republican Prez candidates vie for Most Likely to Be Stupid in Public. A day that will live in comic infamy.

      • A bowl of herb, Bacardi cokes, chips and salsa should do the trick for tonight’s right wing entertainment.

        We should have a vote at the end of the debate to see who was dumb, dumber and dumbest.

        • I’m wondering if it will be like Miss America. Who wins the bigotry competition? Most likely to cut taxes? And in the talent competition, who can flip flop better than a flounder? Who strokes pearls to the greatest advantage?

  22. Quote of the Day:

    “[T]o be a follower of both Rand and Christ is not possible. The original Objectivist was a type of self-professed anti-Christ who hated Christianity and the self-sacrificial love of its founder. She recognized that those Christians who claimed to share her views didn’t seem to understand what she was saying. Many conservatives admire Rand because she was anti-collectivist. But that is like admiring Stalin because he opposed Nazism. Stalin was against the Nazis because he wanted to make the world safe for Communism. Likewise, Rand stands against collectivism because she wants the freedom to abolish Judeo-Christian morality. Conservative Christians who embrace her as the “enemy-of-my-enemy” seem to forget that she considered us the enemy,” – Joe Carter.


    • “[T]o be a follower of both Rand and Christ is not possible.
      Soooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo true! But I think many of those on the right who claim to be Christians are Christians in name only. You can’t worship two Gods, and many on the right seem to worship Mammon from Monday-Saturday and God on Sunday.

      • You can’t worship two Gods

        Well, monotheists can’t, but polytheists sure can, and do.

        Personally, I feel monotheism was a step backwards. To me, it would have made much more sense to originally think that there was only one god that controlled everything. Then, when the inherent contradictions of a single god being responsible for all the good AND all the evil in the world was noted, to change to believing that there were different gods for different things, and that they didn’t always agree with each other.

        Had Religion developed more along those lines, I think there would have been fewer religious wars. People would have accepted that there were other gods to worship, and no one could claim that theirs was the only god and worshipers of all others should be killed at once. IMHO.

        • totally Wayne,

          with all the vagaries of life….good fortune and bad, in the natural world and personal and political and economic relationships it makes a lot more sense that competing deities with their own agendas and favorites were/are in charge of the overall. rather than one schizophrenic, pathological entity.

        • I was lucky to be offered a high school course in Greek mythology taught by a real, live, archaeologist (and people say money doesn’t make any difference in education!) and she had a great observation. The Greeks would do something and then, depending on outcome, they would either thank the appropriate deity for success or apologize for failure. Monotheists, on the other hand, seem to spend their time begging for favors and/or permission.

        • The contradiction is not necessarily in monotheism, but in the concepts associated with it. IF one defines omniscience as knowing everything in advance and omnipotence as absolute dominating power, then one has burdened God with responsibility for all that occurs. That is not a contradiction until and unless one introduces a concept of omnibenevolence that is supposed to mirror a human concept of mercy. Jean Calvin rejected that move and argued that God damned some people to hell outright and humans will never understand who or why. This is the root of Protestantism.

          Contemporary process theologians (Charles Harshorne, or example) reject the definition of “omnipotence = gross power,” and argue that God’s omnipotence is in the form of love. This does not dominate, but merely lures. The world tends to be drawn that way (“The arc of the universe is long, but it tends toward justice,” was a favorite saying of Dr. King’s). But, especially on the human scale, it does not have to go that way. God’s creative inducements can be ignored.

    • Claiming to be a Christian and a Randian is like saying you are a vegetarian because Big Macs have lettuce in them.

        • I’ve always thought that the whole “fighting in God’s name” was pretty good evidence that most religious folk don’t think it through. If God needs mere humans to kill other mere humans I would have to conclude that He’s, at best, ineffectual. Whenever i see someone claim to be “God’s warrior” or some derivation I’m reminded of Kirk’s best line from all the movies (IMO).

          “Excuse me. Why does God need a spaceship”?

    • It’s very telling. Many of them seem to put equal trust in the Constitution, the Buybull, and Ayn Rand. That tells me that they haven’t actually read or comprehended any of the three.

    • Heh! I didn’t realize I was starting a movement. Some of the ideas have been awesome. It makes me think that we should try to crash some of those ridiculous “virtual town hall” meetings. I would be willing to bet that we would never, ever, actually get a question past the screeners.

  23. Missing Iraq money may have been stolen, auditors say

    Pentagon officials determined that one giant C-130 Hercules cargo plane could carry $2.4 billion in shrink-wrapped bricks of $100 bills. They sent an initial full planeload of cash, followed by 20 other flights to Iraq by May 2004 in a $12-billion haul that U.S. officials believe to be the biggest international cash airlift of all time.

    This month, the Pentagon and the Iraqi government are finally closing the books on the program that handled all those Benjamins. But despite years of audits and investigations, U.S. Defense officials still cannot say what happened to $6.6 billion in cash — enough to run the Los Angeles Unified School District or the Chicago Public Schools for a year, among many other things.

  24. I just noticed a frame problem in the new TP when trying to fetch an archive.

    In the select ballon next to the cursor the displayed date is not correct when focus is on the Google Chrome display window. The algorithm seems to operate to the following way: :

    If the PriorMonth had 28 days, Then show date of “02/28/2011”.
    If the PriorMonth had 30 days, Then show date of “PriorMonth/30/2011”.
    If the PriorMonth had 31 days,
    Then If Date Selected Mod(2)=0 Then show date of “PriorMonth/30/2011”.
    Else show date of “PriorMonth/31/2011”.

    It gets a bit hairier when the year turns over as the last two digits of the prior year are used as the last two digits of the date.

    The date shown in the command tag at the lower left of the window, just above the Task Bar is correct..

  25. Any wagers on length of time Breitbarf digs up some item on the President ‘supposedly’ having an affair to force him out of office? (I don’t really think AB is that much of a dolt, but one never knows)

    In an exclusive interview with TODAY’s Ann Curry that will air on Tuesday’s show, President Barack Obama said that if he were Democratic Congressman Anthony Weiner right now, he would resign in the wake of the scandal in which Weiner admitted to sending explicit photos of himself to women online.

    “I can tell you that if it was me, I would resign,’’ Obama told Curry

    “When you get to the point where, because of various personal distractions, you can’t serve as effectively as you need to, at the time when people are worrying about jobs, and their mortgages, and paying the bills — then you should probably step back,’’ Obama said.

    • Sad part is, Weiner was one of the most effective members of the House while all this nasty was going down. Mr President, just what might be the difference between playing silly online games and pandering to Wall Street money interests?

      Give you a hint, one doesn’t involve money.

  26. Over the past 30 years, the R’s have shown America that morality, ethics and decency have absolutely nothing to do with being able to be a member of Congress.

    • One of the major flaws with our democratic-republic is that the skills you need to get yourself elected to federal office (at any level) have nothing to do with the skills you need to be good at the job to which you were elected. Prime example, George W. Bush. He figured out how to exploit the right-wing Christians and get himself elected Governor of Texas (and selected POTUS), but he completely lacked the skills needed to do either of those jobs well.

  27. CU basically hung a FOR SALE sign on every major elected office. Talking about the ethics or morality of any member of Congress is sort of like debating which which whore should go to hell.

  28. The last election cycle showed the influence, not of the Baggers but of the CU decision. The first truly purchased election. And what was the agenda of these purchased politicians? Pure Right Wing fascism. Anyone who thinks the 2012 elections will somehow turn a tide have a lot more faith in the roughly 50% of Americans who still have a brain. Twenty five per cent are idiot baggers. The other 25% have bought Exceptionalism.

    We are a country divided because the R’s have spent the last 30 years seducing the weak to the Stupid.

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