The Watering Hole: July 14 – Valerie Plame

Today in 2003, Valerie Plame, a top CIA operative, was outed by Robert Novak. This was an act of treason that collapsed Central Intelligence operations monitoring Iranian Nuclear weapons development. It also put CIA operatives in Iran at risk and may well have resulted in their deaths.

The only individual prosecuted in the subsequent investigation was Lewis “Scooter” Libby who was indicted on five counts relating to the Plame affair: Two counts of perjury, two counts of making false statements to federal investigators, and one count of obstruction of justice. His 30-month prison sentence was commuted by President G. W. Bush before he served any time.

No one, other than Libby, was ever prosecuted for any crime though both VP Dick Cheney and Karl Rove seemed to be strongly woven into the treasonous act, now called “Plame Gate”.

This is our Open Thread. Do you think that justice was served here? You may also rant on anything else that enters your mind.

207 thoughts on “The Watering Hole: July 14 – Valerie Plame

  1. A warm and heartfelt “thank you” to our president for pursuing the criminals that perpetrated this crime and so many others.

    Wait….. you mean nothing is going to happen to these traitors?

    I guess some animals are more equal than others.

  2. Thanks also to Joe Liebermann, whose purview it was to provide oversight and investigation of national security matters and foreign policy, yet never held a single hearing into anything relating to Iraq. .

    • Senator Liebermann (R-Tel Aviv) simply represented his constituents to the best of his ability, what’s wrong with that?

      /sarcasm off

    • I looked it up, and came across this article:

      Petition to Investigate and Indict John F. Kerry for Acts of Treason

      To Senate President Richard Cheney, Senate Majority Leader Bill Frist and Attorney Alberto R. Gonzales:

      We, the People of these United States, rightfully petition our national government to prosecute John Kerry for “giving aid and comfort to the enemy” and to disqualify him for national office.

      Kerry has a long and well-documented history of providing “aid and comfort” to the enemy in time of war — particularly in the case of North Vietnam, Nicaragua and Cuba. Kerry, by his own account of his actions and protests, violated the UCMJ, the Geneva Conventions and the U.S. Code while serving as a Navy officer. Kerry met, on two occasions, with North Vietnamese negotiators in 1970 and 1971, willingly placing himself in violation of Article three, Section three of the U.S. Constitution, which defines treason as “giving aid and comfort” to the enemy in time of warfare.

      Thus, in accordance with the Constitution’s Fourteenth Amendment, Section 3, which states, “No person shall be a Senator or Representative in Congress, or elector of President and Vice-President … having previously taken an oath … to support the Constitution of the United States, [who has] engaged in insurrection or rebellion against the same, or given aid or comfort to the enemies thereof,” We, the People of these United States, believe John F. Kerry is unfit for public office.

      It is for this reason — for his record of giving aid and comfort to the enemy while a member of the U.S. Armed Forces in violation of this oath — that Senator Kerry should be prosecuted and disqualified for national office.

      We understand that no action is likely to be taken on this petition until after the 02 November election. Be it known, however, that on 03 November, we will seek full recourse in an effort to have John Kerry prosecuted for acts of treason and disqualified from any future campaign for any national office. We are thus committed to holding Mr. Kerry accountable for his actions, as there is no statute of limitations for acts of treason.

      This petition for indictment was delivered to Senate President Richard Cheney, Senate Majority Leader Bill Frist and Attorney General John Ashcroft on Monday, 18 October 2004.

      According to the webside, nearly a quarter of a million people signed the petition.

      • Interesting… so if Kerry had won the election, they were going to impeach him and use “giving comfort to the enemy” as the reason for accusing him of treason. Thanks for the information. Treason, like murder, has no statute of limitations. This means that Cheney could still be prosecuted for treason. Obama is a strategic thinker. He sees the big picture and thinks long term. Prosecuting Cheney and Bush et al during his first term would have ended his chances for winning a second term. There is a chance, albeit very small, that Obama could still prosecute Cheney for treason during Obama’s second term.

        • There’s one huge problem with prosecuting those folks under U.S. law. They could and would raise the State’s Secrets defense, and the courts would uphold it, preventing any evidence of their wrongdoing from being introduced against them.

          If anything is to be done, it must be done in an international tribunal for war crimes and crimes against humanity.

            • No chance of that obviously.

              But, if circumstances permit an American who has done something awful abroad COULD be allowed to be submitted for trial to the ICC rather than being prosecuted in the US system, thereby establishing a precedent and tacit recognition of the validity of the ICC.

            • Can we start with Henry Kissinger?

              Then John Negroponte and Elliott Abrams….

              That would be what I would call ‘a good start’.

  3. No, justice was not served and Cheney committed an act of treason. He also attempted to turn the agency into a political organization that would manufacture intelligence to suit his needs, and failing that, to destroy it.

  4. Compare to the treatment of, say:
    Bunnatine Smith, who blew the whistle on Blackwater and other contractors gouging the taxpayer and falsifying the services and materials provided –she was fired for doing her job and her duty,
    General Shinsecki, who warned that the Iraq occupation would require 450,000 troops—he was derided and forcibly retired.
    Brig.General; Janis Karpinski—who was the scapegoat for the Abu Ghraib scandal, when in fact her authority there was completely undermined and ignored by a shadow operation run by General Miller (of Gitmo fame), the CIA and contractors; she was demoted and fired, Miller retired with full benefits and set up his own consulting business.
    Bradley Manning—who released diplomatic communications that only revealed what a bunch of petulant morons were involved in the spending of US blood and treasure in Iraq: he’s still in jail and no charges have actually been brought against him.

    • All too often, those who do the right thing get cruxified. Heck, it even happened to the son of a carpenter who challenged the status quo some 2000 years ago when he turned over the tables of the money-changers.

      Not much has changed in the intervening 2k years.

  5. I would love to see Mr. Cheney answer for his international war crimes first, then take his formerly fat ass and try him for treason against the U.S.
    We could always waterboard Libby to get the real scoop from him, as there’s no problem with that, right?

    • Why limit waterboarding to Libby? Other people who might be able to shed light on the conspiracy to lead this country into war based on lies, as well a the 9/11 attacks that killed 3k Americans would include Bush, Cheney, Rumsfield, Rice, Powell, Rove, Yee, and the rest of the folks at the Project for a New American Century.

      I’m sure if they were waterboarded, they would provide lots of other names of folks who could be waterboarded as well. After all, they argued it’s not torture. And Justice Scalia even said it didn’t violate the Constitution of cruel and inhumane punishment, so long as the waterboarding occurs before they’ve been convicted of any crime.

  6. JetBlue Offers $4 L.A.-Area “Carmageddon” Flights

    JetBlue Airways on Wednesday offered special $4 nonstop flights between Long Beach Airport and Bob Hope Airport in suburban Burbank for Saturday, the first day of a long-planned and much-feared shutdown of the 405 Freeway for two days of construction.

    The $4 one-way tickets include taxes and fees, and for $1 more, travelers can buy a bit of first-class treatment, including extra leg room and early boarding privileges.

    I know this comes off as a world of free advertising for JetBlue, but I’d be tempted to do a round trip just to get my first time off the ground crossed off my ‘bucket list’, so to speak. Problem is, I’d have to fly there first to take advantage of the cheap deal, so maybe next time. 😦

    • OMFG, House!
      You mean you’ve never been in an airplane? Never flown?

      I don;t look down on you for it–I’m just amazed that the opportunity or necessity has never arisen in your life thus far.

      • Exactly. The necessity has never been there. I went a lot of places in the old Falcon, and then the 914. Since I’ve been married, there hasn’t been any place I needed to go, or there hasn’t been extra money.

        • I love a nice road trip. 🙂

          I’ve done my share of flying, my last flight a few months before 9/11, but on a road trip I can get a better view of the scenery.

  7. The repiggies whine:

    “Thursday it was $2 trillion, Monday it was $1.7-1.8 trillion, Tuesday it was $1.6-1.7-1.8 trillion. This morning our staff met with White House folks and the wrap-up from that meeting said that the White House is now at $1.5 trillion.”

    That’s what happens when you negotiate in bad faith, fuckers.

    • Wasn’t it Boner who was whining about needing a ‘smaller deal’.

      As if his deal wasn’t small enough…

  8. This was the end segment for Martin Bashir’s hour yesterday on MSNBC.

    Martin Bashir Takes a Stab at Opinion on Rupert Murdoch

    A couple of points stood out to me.

    So how did Mr. Murdoch achieve such omnipotence? The answer: brilliantly, methodically, agressively, and slowly.

    Why not ruthlessly?

    And Bashir closes with this.

    Mr. Murdoch is a disturbing example of what can happen when government falls on its knees and gets out of the way. An unelected media baron begins to dominate public discourse even to the point of determining the outcome of a general election. As British politicians finally wake up to what has happened to their democracy, let’s hope that Mr. Murdoch is never allowed to do the same thing in this country.

    Is Bashir disingenuous here or just naive? I mean, could he be pulling his punches in case he ever is considered for a job at Fox? I’d say Murdoch has already helped determine the outcome of national elections. I have a neighbor who thinks the national debt was four trillion dollars until Obama increased it to fourteen trillion in two years. That could only come from Fox.

    • Bashir is just an ordinary professional celebrity stalker who’s professional success is entirely dependent on the subjects he gains access to. He is best know for his interviews with Diana, Princess of Wales, and Michael Jackson. That is in essence his entire portfolio,
      I last saw him blathering-on in some of the WIlliam and Kate wedding coverage, as though he were an expert on something
      He’s a generic product of the self serving media and self-promotion and is of the ilk of Murdoch’s minions.

      • Today on an earlier show (not his) he was saying that 9 years ago his wife had a baby born quite ill. One of the nurses told them that two strange guys were nosing around. They never could figure out how anybody would have found out because they hadn’t told anybody but family about the baby. They wonder now if their phones had been hacked because there hadn’t been any other way to know.

  9. let’s hope that Mr. Murdoch is never allowed to do the same thing in this country.

    Umm, mayhaps too late? Jeez…

  10. Thom Hartmann is talking to an ‘intelligent design’ idiot (who claims not to be an ID idiot) who doesn’t understand the difference between DISAGREEMENT/OPINION and EVIDENCE.

    He claims to have studied evolutionary science, but doesn’t understand even the most basic ideas of Darwin and evolution.

    • ‘Punctuated Evolution’.

      This is why I like Thom Hartmann. You won’t find discussions like this on Ed Schultz, Randi Rhodes or any other talk show. I learn more listening to his show than all the others combined.

      • There is evidence accelerated evolution in certain instances, such as disasters. I think Darwin thought of evolution as a steady curve over time, but we’ve learned since then that it isn’t.

        What his guest was arguing for was simply a slippery slope to weakening the science taught in schools. Just because there’s ‘disagreement’ out there about evolution, doesn’t mean that the evidence isn’t there.

      • Knowledge sometimes has ‘punctuated evolution’ also.

        Absent catastrophic events, evolution probably did happen as Darwin believed. We have more information now available than Darwin had in his time.

        • I saw a segment on the dire wolf last week that said something like because of the way they had evolved when a catastrophic even happened they disappeared while other wolves survived. If it was all part of god’s plan that wouldn’t have happened would it?

  11. [from TD]

    I Missed My Chance to Pee on Rupert Murdoch

    …In the United States, it was more difficult to do that. But he did it, creating Fox News as an arm of the Republican Party and then making the party into an arm of Fox News.

  12. FYI every-critters.

    Sarah Palin’s “The Undefeated” (a.k.a. “Triumph of the Wasilla Will”) opens tomorrow in movie theaters.

    The Sarah Palin documentary “The Undefeated”—which opens in 10cities this Friday–couldn’t have opened at a better time. With a Newsweek cover story about the former Republican Vice Presidential candidate, wherein she declares, “I can win a national election,” Palin is once again in the media spotlight

    I can’t imagine a better entertainment to take one’s minds off the homosexualistic socialist Sharia death-panel debt-crisis crisis-crisis, than watching a movie about a sub-ordinary woman who discovers she has magical powers, an ability to utter indecipherable curses and incantations, and a destiny to fight uttermost evil in between press junkets and media appearances.

    Unless of course, one would prefer to be entertained by a movie about an ordinary boy who discovers he has magical powers, and ability to talk coherently, and a destiny to fight uttermost evil without making a massive personal profit from deluded rubes.
    That movie would. of course, be Harry Potter and the Deathly Hallows: Part II, which is ALSO opening this Friday.

    Indeed, what better time, as the WSJ fluffer writes, for Palin’s abuse of valuable film-stock and America’s hard won moments of leisure—so that she can blame her fakumentary’s inevitable flop on a biased media and a brainwashed public.

    (I’m not seriously suggesting the release of Palin’s propaganda has been timed only so that its inevitable failure can be blamed on the overwhelming Harry Potter release, but if anyone asks her, I wouldn’t be shocked if Palin were to blame the Potter film for her movie’s miserable box-office performance–not withstanding being only in 10 cinemas versus a kajillion for Deathly Hallows 2).

    (Palin’s fakumetary opens in Grape Vine and Houston, Texas; Highlands Ranch, Colorado; Indianapolis, Indiana; Independence, Missouri; Kennesaw, Georgia; Oklahoma City, Oklahoma; Orange, California; Phoenix, Arizona; and Orlando, Florida—which is also home to the Harry Potter theme park).

    • Wow, 10 cities. 10 very conservative cities. Maybe that’s the way she’ll remain “undefeated.” 🙄

      I love that she won’t stop until she is completely and publicly humiliated. Of course, she’s there already, but she doesn’t know that.

      That’s what I hope for in the future — a tell-all book by a child or household staff that reveals the moment Sister Sarah privately understands that she a complete failure.

    • It will be a race to the bottom to see which movie was the biggest failure, Scarus’ infomercial or Atlas Shrugged.

  13. From TPM:

    The AP is reporting that the Justice Department is looking into the allegations that News Corp. hacked into the cellphones of 9/11 victims. We’re told to expect a statement from DOJ shortly. More when we have it.

    I’ll be away for a little while, so hopefully there will be more news when I get back.

      • TPM is back up:

        The FBI has opened an investigation into whether reporters for Rupert Murdoch’s News Corp hacked into the phone records of 9/11 victims, according to the FBI’s New York office.

        A source with knowledge of the FBI investigation confirmed news of the probe to TPM, saying it’s been launched in part because of Rep. Peter King’s (R-NY) high-profile letter calling for an investigation.

  14. As reported by Jeff Schapiro in the Richmond Times Dispatch:
    “When he graduated from the private Collegiate School in 1981, Eric Cantor chose as the quote that accompanied his portrait in the yearbook, the Torch, a lyric from an operetta by Henry Blossom: “I want what I want when I want it.””

        • Hmmm. I dislike Cantor but I don’t know if I could overcome my aversion to accept medication from someone who looks like Coultergeist.

          On a related note… A friend of mine saw Laura Ingraham on NBC the other day. He doesn’t watch as many SaudiFAUX “News” clips as I do and was surprised by her venom. I called her “Ann Coulter with boobs”.

  15. Sigh…

    Another completely fruitless argument about climate change has come and gone. I really don’t know why I still feel compelled to discus such things with Reichwhiners. I have pretty much condensed my view into these points:

    1. Average global temperature is going up at an alarming rate.
    2. Atmospheric CO2 is going up at an alarming rate.
    3. Temperature and CO2 are going up in direct proportion to measured human emissions.
    4. No other mechanism for these changes has passed scientific scrutiny and review.

    That’s as simply as I can phrase it but, if you feel compelled to argue with a denier, here’s a great source for answers to virtually every question they come up with. Making them believe said answers is a whole different subject.

  16. Steve King was on Thom Hartmann. It’s impossible to have a constructive conversation with one who is so out of touch with the cause and effect universe we sane people inhabit.

    • King was on Hardball yesterday and Hartmann today. What’s he trying to do, appear as somewhat centrist by “reaching out to left media” so he’ll be a counterbalance to Michele as her VP choice?

      • I can only tolerate Tweety for very brief clips but he does get people ruffled on occasion. I was greatly amused that he got King to admit that he “doesn’t trust any source”. Essentially, he admitted that he can’t be swayed from his Beliefs by mere facts.

      • Definitely not. He said something about how he knew that not raising the debt ceiling wouldn’t create an economic crisis because he’s raised his family and talks to lots of people in his office yada yada.

        • Dick-for-brains has clearly never maxed out his credit card and had a couple of knuckle-draggers knock on his door to repossess his prized beanie-baby collection.

  17. I was fantasizing yesterday about what it would take to get Cantor, Bachmann and all their moron buddies on board with the debt limit. In the fantasy, Limbaugh gets a call from his accountant telling him how much more interest he’s going to be paying if we default, and what a hit his investments are about to take. Fatty gets Steve King on the phone and screams about how much money this is costing him and goddamnit get this fixed!

  18. GOP Demand Obama Protect Seniors From Default, Won’t Name What To Cut Instead

    OMG! OMG! OMG! Obama needs to protect the senior citizens we’re trying our best to drive into grinding poverty. OMG! Somebody do something!!!

    “We’re just calling on the president to assume the role of CEO and prioritize accordingly,” Rep. Rick Crawford (R-AR) said at a press conference on the issue.

    This moron is in Congress, but doesn’t understand a damn thing about how this country works.

    • They’re only interested in “protecting” the creditors (their masters) and high-profile groups like the military and seniors. Clowns like Bachmann claim that the president (and everyone else on the planet with two functioning brain cells, not to mention all those financial experts and Wall Street) is lying about the debt limit. Actually, they don’t reference the experts but if asked they’d probably claim Obama was lying to them as well. Because of, y’know, that spending spree. According to them, there’s “plenty of money.”

      These are the same people who year after year claim that schools and social services, etc. are lying about the ramifications of severe budget cuts. “There’s plenty of money” and “all they need to do is get more efficient.” And the same people who never have any evidence of all that unnecessary fat in the budget. They just know it’s there.

    • Yesterday on “The Five”, the replacement for Beckyboy on SauidFAUX “News”, there was much bleating, led by Dana Purina, about Obama “fear mongering” about social security. She had the audacity to claim “President Bush didn’t fear monger”. So? The token “librul” raised the point of Bush taking us to war in Iraq over nonexistent WMD. Then Purina exploded about how she’s so sick of hearing about the WMD and that Kerry and Clinton voted in favor of action “based on the same information”. The token “librul” was not given an opportunity to point out that the “same information” was fabricated.

    • And then the leading Koch brother makes himself king. All the rest of the gang can choose either to be earls or dukes. Women cannot ascend to power as they will always need to be subservient to the men. Says so in the bible.

  19. A quick post and run (gotta walk the dogs).

    The Murdoch scandal reminds me of an observation my wife and I made a few years ago. We both have seen departments and whole companies that acted like they were very bothered that you had to contact them – notably in accounting departments and IT departments. The ‘service’ is appalling and it happens to people within the same organization as the departments. God forbid my wife need something from her accounting department or I need something from my companies IT group. Meeting with the heads, or so called ‘leaders’ of these groups it is apparent that the terrible attitudes come from the top. My company changed IT leaders and low and behold the service improved. Same at my wife’s place of work in the accounting department.

    Now here is Murdoch and he will claim until he dies that he did nothing wrong and didn’t know about certain things and blah blah blah. The truth is, leaders produce followers that are not dissimilar to the leader.

    It is about time that unethical behaviour is punished from the top down and not from the bottom until the money influence quashes the crime.

    One dog very anxious – must take him to the bathroom (He is free to go outside!!!)

  20. Rupert says apparently the company has made only “minor mistakes” and the crisis has been handled “extremely well in every way possible.”

    Which is one way of looking at it.

      • Well if he is indeed straight, he’s probably the most flamboyant straight man on the planet. Next to Ted Haggard. Oh, and maybe Larry Craig.

        • I almost feel bad about piling on the Fabulous Marcus, after all he’s not the candidate, but because of his and his wife’s assholierthanthou, destructive ideas about the gayness, and the fact that he runs a so-called counseling service to get rid of the gayness, I’m increasingly less concerned about it.

          I can see why she kept him under wraps for so long…she might live in denial, but I highly doubt she’s really that stupid. Maybe she takes credit for saving him from those dirty boys.

          • Yeah, I know what you mean. It’s not about whether or not he’s gay. That’s his business, and more power to him either way. (Although if it turns out he is, he’s been a hypocrite about some things.)

            But that’s speculation.

            The real basis for thumping him and Michelle is about the fraudulent anti-gay therapy, and their outright attack on gay rights.

            • Right, I would never hold his sexuality against him (or his denial thereof), but he’s harming other human beings with his junk therapy business, and that is unforgivable.

              I can’t even imagine what it would be like (as a parent) to want my child to deny who they are, just to make me feel better about myself or my religion or whatever. Doing so would prove that I never really loved my men at all.

  21. Is it just me or do we have a preponderance, a veritable plethora of pretty people promulgating infotainment on our ‘news’ shows? And in the new crop of Young Guns in the Republican Party?

    No wonder Newt is just trying to sell his books.

    • The FAUXhounds remind me of this old Genesis song. It’s also a great example of how the world would have been a better place if Phil Collins had never stepped out from behind the drum kit.

      • I wonder if Wayne would find inspiration to parody the old Beatle’s song…Ah, Look at all the pretty people.

        • I have an original song that captures some of it but I don’t have a net-ready audio file. It’s a 12 bar descending in C.

          The Modern Ages

          The stories of the modern ages
          Are playing out upon life’s stages
          The scenery is rearranged
          To suit the players as they’re changed

          When will we all realize
          The past’s a veil before out eyes
          And how much makeup will be worn
          When we see the veils are torn

          Welcome to the modern ages
          Close the chapter burn the pages
          Looking back is not the way
          To embrace the modern age

          Human ants trapped in our hill
          Believing we still have free will
          While plastic puppets hypnotize
          With pornographic exercise

          Useless users use their whores
          And wake up thinking they have scored
          And how much makeup should be worn
          Now that all the veils are torn


  22. “President Obama will hold a press conference tomorrow at 11:00 AM EDT at the White House. Watch live on”

    • I will be home tomorrow to watch it. I want to hear what he has to say.
      I doubt he will acknowledge Rep. Joe Walsh, the arrogant freshman teaagger who called him a liar.
      I doubt he will get into the internecine war within the GOP for leadership.

      But I hope to see a little more of the reasonable, sane, mature adult who insists on what’s right for America in direct contrast to the opposition in the GOP.

    • Sort of interesting that in 230 years God hasn’t taken a direct position in American politics and yet He suddenly decides to weigh in with someone who writes on their hands.

      If this Xtian God is on $arah’s side, he is definitely suffering from Alzheimer’s.

      • Of course He does. Every omnipotent being with the power to create a universe and everything in it needs a bunch of naked apes with firearms, and no direct communication with said omnipotent being, to enforce His will.

          • I actually heard some dipshit surmise that God got angry enough to kill people Himself when he was younger and (my interpretation) only got lazy enough to have mere mortals do His killing for Him when He got old and lazy.

      • I’m fascinated by the concept that your basic unwed teen mother has achieved national interest, a shitpot full of money, opportunities that include shacking with guys while pursuing some sort of entertainment career and the media publishes her vapid ideas while she does so.

        Did I mention she also had ;enhancement surgery?

        • After having “enhancement surgery” at such a young age, I’m sure that she’ll look something like Michael Jackson by the time she’s 40.

          • And she will probably have a reality show like that Anna Nicole Smith person and we can watch whatever remains of her self-destruct in realtime.

          • C’mon, Zooey. It’s an extraordinary accomplishment for a poor black child to grow into a rich white child molester. And I still think there’s a better than even chance that Bristol will end up trading sexual favors for meth. Assuming that isn’t how she got pregnant the first, or second, time.

            • If she manages to rise above her raising, she might have a chance, but I’m not optimistic about that happening.

            • I think you’re right, pete. Getting away from her mother’s influence would be a huge step in the right direction, but mama would fight that tooth and nail. She needs her human shields.

        • I continue to feel sorry for Bristol, because she never had a chance. She’s followed the classic white trash arc — drunken sex in a tent resulting in teen pregnancy, complete lack of education coupled with a family “ethic” that dismisses the value of knowledge, or mastery or thought. Pile on top of that with huge amounts of money, far beyond any white trash dreams and a whirligig of celebrity nonsense (which will soon disappear) and what is the poor little twit to do? I know for a fact that she is constantly “advised” by her momma’s PR flacks and Daddy’s greed and that sterling example of a “mother” who carries the children like luggage and cheerfully lies through her teeth every day of her life — what’s the kid supposed to do?

          I hate to say it, but Bristol is a prime candidate for a big bottle of pills and a swimming pool.

    • I’d better get to bed so I can cut flowers in the morning…or maybe I’m just slinking off in shame that Eric Cantor represents my district and caters to lying fools like Mr. Phillips.

    • Once again I find myself asking; why not propose a tax hike on people who can afford it and couple it with a tax credit for those who hire people?

      I’ve been emailing everyone I can think of and I’m getting zero response. I might be missing something but it sure seems to me that such a proposal would pull the teeth of those who incessantly whine about “taxing job creators” and, if they respond as predicted, it would show everyone that the GOoPers don’t give a flying fuck about jobs for common people.

        • True. However, I would love to see Ed or any “lefty” respond with “but we’re giving those who create jobs a tax credit”.

          Whether such a measure passes or not I think it would be a huge win for the good guys.

          • I totally agree, pete.

            I think it might be true that people are beginning to hurt enough to notice. This is our time to shine…we just have to make sure we do so.

  23. Ok yeah, I’m sucking up. 🙂

    I’m certainly enjoying it. 🙂

    And given the day I’ve had, it was a welcome treat. And on that note, I bid you all a good night.

    • It’s always good to see Bill on the tube. Interesting to learn that Gingrich and another republican tried to limited Moyer’s airtime while he was either at MSNBC or NBC. Also interesting what he said about working for the networks and their use of self censorship.

      • I changed her food. Not drastically, but enough to trigger the gas, apparently.

        The good thing is, she’s lost a bit of weight. The bad thing is…the gas.

        Since I’m packing up this place, she’s always right next to me. The gas… *faint*

          • This is true, Ebb.

            She knows that the duffle bag means mommy is leaving for a couple days. Her little brain must be boggled by the cardboard boxes swallowing up EVERYTHING!

            I’m off to bed. Goodnight!

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