The Watering Hole: August 13 –

This article disturbed me:

Appeals court rules against Obama healthcare law.

What worst can happen? Since this ruling addresses the same clause of the health law in a diametric way as did another federal appeals court, it goes onto the Supreme’s caseload on the October docket.

The video has nothing to do with my thread, but I just had to include a Monty Python clip into at least one.

I do not know if you really noticed, but the GOP is acting like your parents did when you were a child – they allow or restrict your access to government services for your own good! The Judicial Branch is their final point of appeal.

Two examples –

“Guns are good for you, health care is bad.”

In that light, you should avoid public places and permanently move into a fallout shelter. On the other hand, you should run for office and get excellent health care if you win.

This is our Open Thread. Please feel free to present your thoughts on any topic that comes to mind.

169 thoughts on “The Watering Hole: August 13 –

        • I’m not sure we did. The pendulum swung so far to the right during those eight years that now it appears to be stuck there, somehow lashed to a post and held in place by the hand of the most completely unamerican political movement of the last one hundred years, at least. And with every passing day, the likelihood of escape from that grip appears less and less possible, the sale of the nation to the highest bidder now nearly complete. Greed has won; the inmates have purchased the asylum and are now about to burn it to the ground.

          America’s future prospects today cause me to recall the last lines from Shelley’s Ozymandias:

          And on the pedestal these words appear —
          “My name is Ozymandias, king of kings:
          Look on my works, ye Mighty, and despair!”
          Nothing beside remains. Round the decay
          Of that colossal wreck, boundless and bare
          The lone and level sands stretch far away.

    • This congress and many of the past congresses are just puppets to their corporate overlords. The line between the difference of the republicans and democrats is increasingly hard to distinguish in my opinion.

      Don’t get me wrong, the republicans are insane and have no problem with the idiot public knowing that they support and fight for the interests of the wealthy, Wall Street and big business.

      But the democrats as a whole have starting to do the same in regards to supporting the interests of the wealthy, Wall Street and big business.

      In my honest opinion, the average American Citizen is being had. What we are seeing is the role of two political parties in a broken political system who have mastered the role of good cop verses bad cop. Nothing that SHOULD be done ever gets done, meanwhile on votes on such things as financial regulatory reform and credit card reform, politicians may vote against or for these bills, just to give the appearance that they are listening to their constituents, when in reality, they know the bill is going to pass, without their support or lack of it.

      It’s all an illusion. One that is increasingly deteriorating while corporations assume total control of our government, our laws, our justice system our judges, our economy, inalienable rights, wages, etc, etc, etc……..

      Citizens United, the road to fascism.

  1. If you’re thinking “What worst can happen?”……you aren’t thinking very hard
    What about:
    + a Constitutional amendment to permit George W Bush to serve a third and fourth term as President?
    + the Koch brothers on the Supreme Court?
    + the elimination of the Bill of Rights?
    + elimination of all restriction on gun ownership?

    The Dems just need to make health care a major issue in 2012. They must be AGGRESSIVE! I know, I know, that’s asking the near impossible, but, you never know.

    • + George W Bush would not want the job again. They can find someone even more evil but with more intelligence.
      + The Koch brothers and all corporations are well represented already in the Supreme Court so there would be no need for one of them to appointed to the Supreme Court.
      + I don’t think even think some of the idiot teabaggers would go for that one.
      + More guns don’t kill….More owners of guns kill. There could be the elimination of gun ownership…But I don’t think our corporate overlords want we the peasants to have even more peasants with guns if the sheet hits the fan.

      • you didn’t comprehend my post…it said “elimination of all restriction on gun ownership”….INDIVIDUALS own guns….hence, the implicit reference to “owners of guns”…..try to post only when you aren’t stoned.

  2. Two thoughts this morning:

    1-Is it possible that the submissive question asked to crazy Shelly Bachmann, was planned so that voters would feel sympathetic to her?

    2-Is it just me? Rick Perry physical appearance and mannerisms reminds me of a cross between George W. Bush, Adolph Hitler and Moe Howard.

    • Oh for christ’s sake, enough of the exceptionalism pablum already–especially when all the evidence points the other way.

      I don;t care what one’s politics are, there is absolutely no content and no substance in this address.
      Who’s “we”, kemo sabe?
      Progressives and moderate Democrats are ignored or when noticed, dismissively criticized by Obama and his White House.
      The teabaggers not only get all the attention, THEY get the concessions.

      Fucking clueless—and I’m sure Obama isn;t this fucking clueless in private, which makes him appear even more clueless to me. Total waste of his pulpit. Goiddammit! .

      • I agree, 5th.

        I know Obama can’t go out there and tell it exactly like it is — most people don’t want the truth, and they aren’t paying attention anyway, so would naturally blame everything on Obama. The President is often slated to be our biggest cheerleader. However, he’s pouring it on a bit thick this week.

        We all like to feel good, but WE are not fucking ignoramuses.

  3. What’s the worst that could happen regarding the heath care law?

    The Supreme Court could uphold the mandate that everyone buy insurance from an insurance company.

    “This economic mandate represents a wholly novel and potentially unbounded assertion of congressional authority: the ability to compel Americans to purchase an expensive health insurance product they have elected not to buy, and to make them repurchase that insurance product every month for their entire lives,”

    But I like the Court’s thinking here:

    the individual mandate is breathtaking in its expansive scope. It regulates those who have not entered the health care market at all. It regulates those who have entered the health care market, but have not entered the insurance market (and have no intention of doing so). It is over inclusive in when it regulates:it conflates those who presently consume health care with those who will not consume health care for many years into the future. The government’s position amounts to an argument that the mere fact of an individual’s existence substantially affects interstate commerce, and therefore Congress may regulate them at every point of their life.

    This is looking at the impact of the individual mandate upon the Commerce Clause through the lense of the individual consumer, not the insurance industry. I have no doubt that Congress can regulate the insurance industry under the Commerce Clause. But I agree with its view on regulating the individual as an overreach.

    Think about this for a moment – if the law stands, is there nothing Congress could not force us to buy, or pay a penalty tax?

    Besides, if this insurance industry give-away is struck down, single-payer, medicare for all, or Universal Health Care must be considered, if we, as a nation, are truly committed to caring for the least of our citizes.

    • I agree with you. That health care bill was probably made just about the worst any health care plan could ever be, thanks to those who would deny common citizens any and all assistance on any matter that might confront them, period. So, what started out to be a fairly interesting idea got downgraded to what was once a Republican plan, which of course Republicans now hate, and the worst part of it was overturned by the Court of Appeals.

      Let the overturning of that part stand, and then start again on single payer or, at the least, a public option.

    • Is the mandate a specific penalty for not having insurance, or a tax credit forfeited by not having insurance?

      I get a tax break for paying interest on a house loan, but I am not required to buy a house.

      • the penalty is a sur-tax imposed on those who have not purchased insurance, the plan being that the sur-tax then goes to pay for their health care.

        But, think about this: Social Security and Medicare are sur-taxes, supposed to pay for Social Security benefits and health care for the aged among us, and Teabaggers now want to keep the tax, but eliminate the benefits, Who’s to say the government won’t just keep the penalty tax, and pass health care costs down to the States to worry about…who then pass the buck down to the counties and other local governments.

  4. Insidious P,

    Byron York defended the “submissive” question as being one that was going to be asked sooner or later anyway,, so it’s possible it was calculated to get it out of the way.
    On the other hand, York is obviously a twat and he may have thought it would simply liven things up a bit.
    It IS a question worth asking, not simply for the asking, but for the addressing, in that it;s a reelection of patriarchal dominionist view of the world that apparently part of Bachmann’s background, and at complete odds with notions of democracy and equality, and that it is obviously either hypocritical pandering to arch-conservative males ( and submissive females) or hypocritical mendacity in that Bachmann does not appear to be in any way submissive, OR if she really is, then she wouldn’t have the leadership qualities expected of a President or that is expected to be inherent in the Office of the President.

    And of course, it’s also a question not worth asking too, because Bachmann is a lunatic and a liar, so why bother?

    • But Bachmann’s answer gives us further insight into the evangelical christian mind. Her explaining that “submit” really means “respect” shows the selective re-interpretation of the new testament that evangelical christians have swallowed, hook, line and sinker.

      So, let’s put up the 10 Commandments in every courthouse, and pass laws to ban Sharia Law.

      Rhetorical Question: if ours is a nation based on traditional values and the Bible, why is polygamy outlawed, and why aren’t God’s Laws set forth in Leviticus our laws?

      • There’s something we’re supposed to do with non-virgins, too, but I don’t recall the details. Kill them maybe?

        As Emily Dickinson noted, “The Bible is an Antique Volume, Written by Faded Men.”

        She sure tacked that one to the cross.

  5. .
    I knew it was insignificant yet had not realized the votes were paid for. That’s why no repiggie was surprised by the (bought and paid for) 2000 decision for Pres.

    Fund raising and publicity are the primary goals of the Iowa Straw Poll, which is organized by the Iowa Republican Party. The poll takes place at a fund raising dinner, and each voter must pay a small fee to vote.”

    I’ll never quite understand why much is made of this publicity stunt.

  6. Scott Lemieux explains why the SCOTUS is turning conservative:

    Supreme Court justices tend to come from the federal appellate courts. Particularly since the Reagan administration, Republican presidents have been very conscious of trying to put young conservatives on the federal appellate bench. This is how you get John Roberts and Sam Alito appointed to the Court at a young age, in addition to federal courts stacked with your appointments for a long time. Obama, however, has yet to get a single appellate court judge under 45 appointed to the appellate courts. Since the inauguration of Reagan, “Republicans have appointed 41 federal appellate judges under age 45 to the Democrats’ 10.”

    • Why do you think there’s such stonewalling over every Democratic appointment, and so much hue and cry if a single Republican appointment is held up in the Senate?

      We’re heading towards nothing less than permanent Corporate ownership of all three branches of our government. put in place by people who time after time vote against their own best interests.

  7. To the original topic: Virtually all the media reporting I’ve heard or read has had the equivalent of “federal court strikes down Obama’s health care”. Somewhere well down into the story, they will mention that the court did nothing of the kind and, in fact, specifically upheld the bulk of the law. I’ve yet to see the headline about “court strikes down only the mandate, upholds the health plan itself.’

  8. .
    Universe Today’s Review of Hubble 3-D IMAX

    But most mesmerizing in the film are 3-D visualizations of actual Hubble data. For this film, regular 2-D Hubble images were converted into 3-D environments, giving the audience the impression they are traveling through space and time.

    We saw this at an IMax theater (our local Tech Museum has one) and it truly felt
    as if we were traveling through space!

    • I posted a comment imagining this and then I saw your comment. I’m sure I’d get nauseous. I have at ocean films and bird films but it would be so worth it.

    • .
      There’s absolutely nothing wrong with this whole thing –
      Diana Cantor is a Repugnant Regressive/

      The investigation will reveal this and the matter swept under the carpet.

  9. Appalling: BART Shuts Down Cell Service to Squash Protest

    But isn’t digital jamming exactly the same thing governments in Egypt, Syria, and elsewhere this Spring were doing? Is the BART acting like an oppressive regime? Gene Policinski, executive director of the First Amendment Center at Vanderbilt University, thinks what BART did was dubious. He told the Monitor, “it’s a very disquieting development. Here you have a government agency indiscriminately closing down all kinds of speech in order to prevent a perceived possibility of violence.”

    [Wondering if there had been an emergency on a BART train how would that be relayed? Oh, that’s correct it wouldn’t – no one had cell service. In that case who would be liable, BART? The police?]

    • Appalling: BART Shuts Down Cell Service to Squash Protest…

      Kind of an odd word choice in that headline. They should have used Quash, not Squash.

    • Not to support BART’s behavior in any way, but any emergency on the system would be handled as it always has been, through whatever dedicated network BART is using (probably a landline). They only recently worked out a deal with cell providers to offer service in the tunnels.

      Be interesting to know if they also shut down the WiFi.

      • .
        [After rumors of a possible protest intended to disrupt service reached BART officials yesterday, they pursued a number of strategies to ensure that didn’t happen. ]

        According to BART spokesperson Linton Johnson, both wi-fi and cell service was shut off to the Civic Center platform to the Transbay Tube Thursday night, beginning at around 5:15 PM (According to CNET, the shutoff lasted from 4 PM-7 PM).

        • Ok, so this is a mere transit authority, shutting off power to cell towers to prevent a possible protest that might have disrupted service.

          This is a forewarning of what our government will do when protests grow in earnest. Alternative forms of communication must be thought out in advance.

          Old Boy Scout Handbooks are excellent sources for Morse Code and Semifore signals.

  10. .


    A broad and controversial immigration enforcement law in Alabama has even religious leaders in the state uneasy because many of them believe the law stands in their way of being good Christians.

    Saying the law criminalizes their efforts to be good Samaritans, three Christian bishops recently joined a growing number of groups who are challenging the law in court, including the American Civil Liberties Union, a number of teachers’ unions, the U.S. Justice Department and even 16 foreign countries.

      • He hath embraced me, and tendered me a billion or ten, succoured my losses, protected my gains, sold me my nation, adopted my bargains, heated my friends, cooled mine enemies; and what’s his reason? I am a Corp. Hath not a Corp eyes? Hath not a Corp hands to stroke the body politic, organs of propaganda, dimensions, senses of entitlement, affections for hookers, politicians? If you prick us, do we not get a bit upset and fire your asses and buy another executive jet to make us feel better? And if you wrong us, shall we not revenge?

        Apologies to William Shakespeare.

  11. There was a time in my life when I found The Christian Science Monitor to be a reliable source of informative news. Now their “news” is so heavily skewed to the Right that he makes me wretch. Here’s a typical “Obama says blah blah, but critics say he’s a pathetic jerk” story. There isn’t a positive or objective paragraph in the entire article.

    Facing his own presidential rough patch, President Obama used his Saturday radio address to direct criticism at Congress, telling Americans that they “deserve better” than the “partisanship and gridlock” exhibited in the government’s legislative branch.

    The rhetoric may have some political logic, as the president can use his bully pulpit to cast himself as aligned with a frustrated public, and as willing to lead if only Congress would give him a chance.

    But the barbed message also carries political risks, since critics say Mr. Obama shares blame for the gridlock because of his own failure to lead. Another danger is that the president becomes known more for griping and commiserating than for laying out a positive direction for the country.

    Hmmm. “Critics say”… sounds a lot like FauxNews “some people say”. And we’re going out of our way to repeat their criticism over and over and over, in case you missed it. It’s all designed to make “some people” sound like an enormous crowd.

    The “rhetoric” isn’t about political logic, morons, it’s simple fact. Anyone who doesn’t recognize or admit that partisanship and gridlock exemplifies this Congress completely and accurately is either a blind idiot or a fucking liar.Or both, of course.

    • So true. I wonder when the librul media will bring up the number of pieces of legislation that have been sent to the President for signature since the Tea Party Devolution. IIRC it is a dozen.. But Congress isn’t gridlocked.

      • Have there been even a dozen? I thought the only stuff coming out of the House was garbage that doesn’t stand a chance in the Senate. And there are also the scores of judicial and executive appointments that can’t get on to the Senate floor. That’s not gridlock, though, right?

  12. I’m thinking we are going to see a massive endgame push in between now and next November. Call them what you will, the robber barons, the oligarchs, the nasty sociopathic rich bastards, are putting it all on the table. They have cultivated an environment in America that is about 30% contrary to what America has stood for. They have dumbed down and bought off a major portion of the American public.

    This is similar to 100 years ago with one major, critical exception. One hundred years ago the majority of the American public really had nothing to lose. Or not much. They were used to scrapping and fighting for every little gain. There will be no Bob Lafollette this time. There will be no Woody Guthrie. Eugene Debs. Or any other hero because heroes are dead. The idea has been stomped, folded, spindled and mutilated for 30 years.

    The only thing they are underestimating is just how fast things can change and how ornery the 70% of America who can still think can get.

  13. .
    Apologies if I’m stepping on bdmm toes – Palin as the ‘under dog’:
    [do check out the photo. Not as, uh hum, ‘provocative’ as CrazyShelley’s]

    Each campaign that I have ever run in these 20 years of elective office have been kind of unconventional, right Todd? We’ve always been outspent, two-to-one, five-to-one, 10-to-one. Never won any polls heading into election night. But usually won the election. So it would be unconventional and very grass roots.” ..

    “The Palins, who have purchased a tony home in Scottsdale were asked whether they had moved to Arizona. “No,” said Todd Palin. “Piper starts school in a couple days.”

    (my aside: note – he doesn’t say where Piper is attending school. One is to surmise AK?)

    • I’m not the exclusive purveyor of all things Palin, I’m just fascinated by the phenomena that she is.

      Asked (again) whether she was running, Palin gave her stock answer, citing her family. It’s odd, given that her family has only embraced celebrity and fame, and are now firmly ensconced in the celebrity-industrial-complex. I’d bet she’ll wait till after Levi’s and McGinniss’s books come out. And she’ll leverage her campaign as a victim of the evil media.

      All I know is that Palin craves attention and believes she has been chosen by God to lead the nation. Bowing out of the presidential race is the end of her fifteen minutes. She wants a few more hours.

  14. TP just tweeted Iowa Results:

    BREAKING: Bachmann wins Ames straw poll, Paul 2nd, Pawlenty 3rd, Santorum 4th, Cain 5th, Romney 6th, Gingrich 7th, Huntsman 8th, McCotter 9

  15. I’m going to predict that there will be some sort of a Palin/Bachman cat fight before the first primary. Shelly will win because Sarah is in it for money, Shelly has God on her side.

  16. And when you put this into perspective… Bachmann got 28% of the vote. Hardly “overwhelming” support of her candidacy. 72% voted for others.

        • That would be cool. If you really want all the drooling rubes on Facebook to know when your wedding anniversary is. I’m sorry, people on Facebook aren’t necessarily drooling rubes.

          • There’s lots of sibling rivalry at work on this one.

            My older sister (i’m the baby of three kids) had to proudly and excessively announce her 13th anniversary (2nd marriage) on the 13th of August. Good for her.

            But she has ignored the fact — or completely forgotten — that TODAY is also MY anniversary — except this is my 33rd.

            Nevermind, I’m over it now. Really.

            • Badmood, very sincere congratulations on your 33rd. I’d say fuck your sister but I suspect it wouldn’t be worth the effort. Thirty three years, be proud and give the woman who worked with you through them a big hug and kiss and some sort of anything to tell her you are glad she is with you.

              You got a good one and after 33 years I’d say you know how to make it work.

            • Congratulations on your wife’s 33rd anniversary. That long with someone in a perpetual bad mood is a notable accomplishment.

  17. For all the Critters and Zoosters who don’t know, my first name is Perry. Short for Peregrine. And no, I am not even vaguely related to the dufe in Tejas who is using my name for his last name.

    • An old country priest who loved the Latin. And parents who trusted the priest. Dad told me shortly before he died that he sort of wished that the Latin name had been more mine.

  18. I won;t bother with the links but in case you all missed it, here;s who won the FOX ‘debate; and why:

    Ron Paul Wins! (according to some dimwit San Francisco hack) because Doctor Ron Paul always wins these kinds of debates because Rontards always swamp FOX’s unscientific online polls whenever Ron Paul is included because Ron Paul is a manly TinkerBell! (For his policy pixie dust to work, all the kiddies have to clap reeely hard, and the clapping of rontarded kids counts as double! (those are my wrods, not the hack’s).

    Except that Mitt Romney won!—according to some Politico politico—because none of the other kids had the cojones to give Romney an atomic wedgie and steal his lunch money!

    Even though Pawlenty actually won!
    Because “It won’t show up in any day after poll, but Pawlenty is the only one who will gain traction and benefit from this first debate, so he was the big winner of the night”–says Forbes wordsmith T.J. Walker

    As long as you pretend that Michele Bachmann didn’t win, because in fact she won! How you ask? By tearing the head off Pawlenty and crapping down his neck, live , on stage, says Howard Kurtz, who is a person who writes words that appear on a website called (for no good reason) the Daily Beast !

    Unless of course you don’t listen to ex-conservative talk radio host Steve Bussey (and a lot of people don’t listen to Steve Bussey) who scientifically proves that Newt Gingrich “Wins in a walk” because “when it comes to divided government, he’s been there, done that, got the tee shirt and won.” (Yes that’s what he said!! Gingbitch won his own slave-labor manufactured tee-shirt!)

  19. Oh it just occurred to me–the Sunday shows are going to be all over the pointless straw poll results like flies on shit and entrails. The word of the day will be “MOMENTUM”.( not “INERTIA” or “TRAGEDY” as a reasonable person might think).

    • And there will be a shitpot full of Righties explaining why the Righties in Iowa sounded like a bunch of people who had no idea what was important but could smack things no one cared about.

    • A straw poll is just silly speculation the 24hr MSM gloms on to for lack of anything else.

      Straw poll, straw man, ya know?

  20. After some two years I have finally decided on the perfect post. Not original but appropriate…good night and good luck.

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