The Watering Hole: September 22 – Witchcraft

Salem Witch Trials 1692

What happened to Troy Davis late last night brings to mind the extremes of Witchcraft trials of prior times. The trial consisted of attempted drowning or like form of near fatal attempts.

Any survivors were presumed guilty and punished by a burning of their mortal bodies which was presumed to cleanse their souls. The innocent were buried by more conventional means as their souls were free of sin. In the American colonies, the last people were hanged for witchcraft in the Northern colonies (It seemed that their souls were already cleansed in the dowsing.)

This process was no less barbaric then the death penalty is today!

This is our Open Thread. Weigh in with your own opinions.

164 thoughts on “The Watering Hole: September 22 – Witchcraft

  1. Damn, was wrapped up with Troy Davis and missed the President kissing Israeli ass!

    Get some gumption Obama – tell Israel to share…after all where does much of their money come from?
    .
    Obama Says Palestinians Are Using Wrong Forum

    President Obama declared his opposition to the Palestinian Authority’s bid for statehood through the Security Council on Wednesday, throwing the weight of the United States directly in the path of the Arab democracy movement even as he hailed what he called the democratic aspirations that have taken hold throughout the Middle East and North Africa.

    • I really really wish the President would grow a pair and quite simply, treat Israel the way they treat the world.

      The Palestinians aren’t going away Mr Netanyahu.
      At least not in your lifetime.
      You may want to embrace an ideolgy apart from their complete extermination.
      A belief that you haven’t hidden very well.

      • Binyamin Netanyahütler and that tried and true ‘ideology [of] complete extermination’ are probably marching hand in hand. I guess that’s called irony in action. But that doesn’t soften the blow.

        I’ve gotten rather sick of this world over the last two or three decades, and every day that ‘sickness’ seems to ascend to a new peak.

  2. I despise the legal food chain that is the death penalty.
    It is not a deterrent so that argument doesn’t hold water.
    A condemned person becomes a piece of political fodder and what could illuminate the truth or reveal new truths are suppressed.
    Police are a business and they need people to put in jail otherwise they don’t more budget money so, police plant evidence and lie under oath.

    Placing the person in prison for their life means they are out of the game.
    If new evidence or technology expose fresh facts then that person may have another chance.
    What bothers me is how people like Texans revel in how many people were put to death.
    This isn’t something a sane society would brag about.
    Prisons and the death penalty food chain are big business.
    Appeals last 20 years and laywers build entire careers off of the system.

    • When you argue with a death penalty advocate it always comes down to money in the end. It’s not a deterrent and I doubt it provides that elusive “closure”, The process takes so long that I suspect it delays the victims’ healing. The only rationale for death always winds up being the cost to keep a person in jail for life. The same folk that still believe in the welfare recipient who lives in luxury don’t want their tax dollars going to feed and house those criminals.

  3. Historically we as a country like to repeat history and go on witch hunts.

    I’ll start with McCarthyism.
    Feel free to add to the list, I can always learn something.

  4. And in trivial but deeply strange news…Ted Haggard and Gary Busey will trade wives for some show called “Celebrity Wife Swap”.

  5. Most honest statement by a politician ever:
    “If this guy gives me money and that one doesn’t, who do you think I’m going to talk to? I don’t care what the one thinks or wants who didn’t give me money.”
    Va. State Senator Frank Wagner

    • (spoiler alert- don’t read if you ever intend to watch or read The Oxbow Incident and haven’t yet)
      The Oxbow letter:
      Gil Carter: “My dear Wife, Mr. Davies will tell you what’s happening here tonight. He’s a good man and has done everything he can for me. I suppose there are some other good men here, too, only they don’t seem to realize what they’re doing. They’re the ones I feel sorry for. ‘Cause it’ll be over for me in a little while, but they’ll have to go on remembering for the rest of their lives. A man just naturally can’t take the law into his own hands and hang people without hurtin’ everybody in the world, ’cause then he’s just not breaking one law but all laws. Law is a lot more than words you put in a book, or judges or lawyers or sheriffs you hire to carry it out. It’s everything people ever have found out about justice and what’s right and wrong. It’s the very conscience of humanity. There can’t be any such thing as civilization unless people have a conscience, because if people touch God anywhere, where is it except through their conscience? And what is anybody’s conscience except a little piece of the conscience of all men that ever lived? I guess that’s all I’ve got to say except kiss the babies for me and God bless you. Your husband, Donald.”

      • Liberty Lover,

        To answer your question from the other day.
        It was a small homebuilt aircraft.
        Impacted from 150 ft agl off the side of the runway.
        Lots of dirt.
        Dirt everywhere.
        I was right seat
        A wild ride I do not recommended for most people.

        • Sounds like it was a wild ride. I am glad that you are still with us though. I love flying, and do it so regularly that I don’t really think about the mechanics of it.

          But for some reason lately, I’ve been really grateful for the science that keeps a plane in the air; it is just so amazing.

  6. News Item 1: Iran releases suspected spying hikers after two years. Diplomacy credited with saving their lives.
    News Item 2: US state executes man after twenty two years and many doubts of his guilt. Supreme Court sees no reason to intervene, allows murder of potentially innocent man.

    WTF?

    • That’s cuz we’re a civilized christian nation and them there Eyeraynians are nuttin but a bunch of Islamofascists who hate us for our freedoms.

  7. Please don’t let this devolve into a Christine O’Donnell platform. Amen.

    (PRAYING FOR STUFF TIP: If you want your prayer to work, don’t forget to close with the magical incantation “Amen.” It’s like abracadabra, only Christian!)

  8. Mere factual innocence is no reason not to carry out a death sentence properly reached” Justice Scalia.

    Another Scalia quote says that “the more Christian a country is, the less likely it is to regard the death penalty as immoral,” and that efforts to abolish the death penalty have the least support in “the churchgoing United States … (because) for the believing Christian, death is no big deal.”

    Writing of Justice Scalia, Sister Prejean says “Scalia quotes the Bible to justify government’s ‘divine authority’ to kill ‘evildoers,'” she said, “and I summon the words and example of Jesus, who transformed the mandate of ‘an eye for an eye’ by urging forgiveness, even of enemies.”

    Both Justice Scalia and Sister Prejean are Catholics. So it all boils down as to which Catholic has the secular power of the police state to kill innocent people with impunity.

  9. Rick Perry’s pledge to stand with Israel “as a Christian” feeds jihadist propaganda – something George W. Bush was (*gulp*) too smart to do:

    “Whoa. That’s something George W. Bush never did. Bush never said he had a Christian duty to stand with Israel, because to say such a thing would have been stupid and dangerous. By framing U.S. foreign policy in terms of a religious alliance between Christians and Jews, Perry is validating the propaganda of Islamic extremists. He’s jeopardizing peace, Israel, and the United States.”

    http://www.slate.com/id/2304311/

    • Questions Rick Perry will never be asked by Wolf Blitzer:

      “Do you believe that the foriegn policy of the US should be directed towards bringing Jesus back to earth for the end times?”

      • Governor, under what circumstances is it ok to shoot protestors when they are interfering with Wall Street’s access to their office space?

    • Robert Fisk sums up the theatre beingplayed at the UN this week

      “America will this week stand out not as the nation that produced Woodrow Wilson and his 14 principles of self-determination, not as the country which fought Nazism and Fascism and Japanese militarism, not as the beacon of freedom which, we are told, its Founding Fathers represented – but as a curmudgeonly, selfish, frightened state whose President, after promising a new affection for the Muslim world, is forced to support an occupying power against a people who only ask for statehood”

        • I find the writings of a man who has spent over 30 years reporting from the heart of the region always very compelling. Fisk started reporting in Northern Ireland in the 1970s. Fisk was there when the Soviets invaded Afghanistan, picked up an AK47 one day and fought for his life with Russian conscripts during an ambush, an act which still haunts him.

          Reported from the Lebanon during the disgusting Israeli invasion and the murders of 1700 people in refguee camps (29 years ago this last week), the civil war that followed.

          He was in Iraq in 1991 and again in 2003 and Egpyt this last Spring. I’ve often linked to his column in the Independent.

          I recommend his books.

          • “with Russian conscripts” == “alongside” them.

            Oh and is one of the few western journalists to ever interview Osama Bin Laden.

      • That was excellent Mr. Fisk, thank you!

        But what are the Israeli settlements on the West Bank, in which no Arab Muslim Palestinian can live, but an expression of racism?

  10. Meanwhile, back in Texas, Perry executes a white man who dragged a black man to his death even though the family of the black man didn’t want “an eye for an eye.” To the family of the victim, Life w/o possibility of parole would have been sufficient punishment.

    • Amy Goodman played this during the wait of the SCOTUS determination on Troy Davis.
      DN did a terrific job – under threat of being ousted to broadcast.
      Amy dared to go under the Media ring rope to speak with people in the crowd. The Georgia (police or correctional police) commanded she return to the ring or be ousted.
      A true police state.

  11. You’re desribing the TV show “24” right?
    Please tell me you’re describing a ficticious world with a supreme court judge that thinks TV shows are constitutional role models..

  12. Will Wilkinson attacks the moral foundation of capital punishment:

    “We punish to deter. We punish to acknowledge the harm brought to the victim, to their loved ones, to their community. We punish to shame and to publicly dishonor the criminal. But the way we do it should embody ideals of humanity, magnanimity, and improvement. Punishment thus should be as light as is consistent with the requirements of security and harmonious society. We must learn, against the grain of our vengeful retributive instincts, to find satisfaction in justice that leaves the thief with his hands, the murderer with his life.”

    http://bigthink.com/ideas/40312

  13. Historic Shift in Voter Sentiment

    MINNEAPOLIS (The Borowitz Report) � Frustration with Presiddent Barack Obama has grown to the point where some voters are now considering replacing him with people who appear to be blatantly brain-damaged, according to a new poll released today.

    The poll, conducted by the University of Minnesota’s Opinion Research Institute, shows a significant number of Republican voters strongly agreeing with the statement, “Things have gotten so bad in this country, maybe it’s time to give someone who does not appear to be playing with a full deck a chance to fix things.”

    The results of the poll are “unprecedented,” according to the University of Minnesota’s Davis Logsdon, who supervised the survey: “For the first time in our polling, voters seem to be willing to hand over the Presidency to people they would not normally trust to run a Radio Shack.”

    The three biggest beneficiaries of the poll were Rep. Michele Bachmann (R-Minn), Gov. Rick Perry (R-TX), and Rep. Ron Paul (R-TX), with Mr. Paul getting especially high marks for his statement that a dime was worth three dollars.

    Gov. Perry said he was encouraged by the poll results, but added, “Nothing can really cheer me up on a day when one of my executions has been delayed.”

    Meanwhile, Rep. Bachmann addressed a Tea Party rally, bemoaning the expiration of Don’t Ask, Don’t Tell: “I for one can tell you that Don’t Ask, Don’t Tell has been the key to many successful marriages.”

  14. Hey, you bird lovers:

    3 California Condor chicks have been hatched in the wild in Northern Arizona at the Grand Canyon. The Peregrine Fund is confident that the endagered birdwill thrive again one day w/o the help of humans.

    • High powered rifles are responsible for most of the condor fatalities.
      Not by being shot, but by eating the remains hunters discard.
      The lead from the high powered rifle bullet is practically atomized inside the animal and the bird then contracts lead poisoning from eating the discarded guts.

  15. Not long ago, someone posted (here?) a link to a list of 10 reasons why liberals shouldn’t support Ron Paul. I have a co-worker who desperately needs to read those. Anyone?

  16. The debate tonight is in Florida, it is on Fox Noise, and it starts 6:00 PST, 9:00 ET. Also on stage tonight will be GOP candidate Gary Johnson. It will be interesting to see if they give him any chance to answer questions.. Or if they will give HIM hard hitting questions meant to increase his chances like “Do you believe in UFO’s?”

    • Not the musician Joe Walsh.
      This screws me up every time because my mind starts playing cool Joe Walsh tunes and then this buzzkill comes onboard.

    • Was listening to Bill Press this AM, and the guest was remarking that Joe made the top 10 most corrupt federal legislator’s list.
      Say it ain’t so, Joe! Then resign.

  17. 9 policies that the GOP was for before they were proposed by the Democrats or (gasp) a Black President:

    1. The Health Care Mandate
    2. Cap and Trade
    3. Small Business Tax Credits
    4. Infrastructure Bank
    5. Supplier Side Cuts to Medicare
    6. Financial Disclosure Laws
    7. Encouraging Low Income Home Ownership
    8. The Fairness Doctrine
    9. Judicial Restraint

    Long article at Alternet on this.

  18. I would LOVE to see Jon Stewart and Stephen Colbert (fair and balanced) hosting a GOP Debate, and getting to ask all the questions they wanted to ask. They would likely ask the most intelligent questions ever, and we’d learn far more about these candidates than under any other circumstances.

    • Of course he does. Because she is a smart woman who has fought for the middle class all of her life. And as Rush has stated over and over and over since the late 80’s that “FDR is dead. His policies are still alive, but we are doing something about them, too.”

      FDR’s policies built the middle class. The ruling class wants to destroy it. Always has, always will.

    • Elizabeth Warren threatens everything he stands for…..well sits down for…. or takes a plane with a case full of Viagra for….

    • This was at TP but I went to their source article.

      Mass. GOP Urges Harvard To Withhold Warren’s Pay

      The Massachusetts Republican party has urged the University to withhold Harvard Law School professor Elizabeth Warren’s salary while she runs in the upcoming election for the Massachusetts Senate seat currently occupied by Scott Brown.

      Warren, who announced her candidacy last week, has alternated between teaching contract law at the Law School and campaigning around the Boston area.

      Isn’t this entirely up to Harvard? Is Brown going to stop collecting his Senate pay while he campaigns?

    • Wouldn’t you just love to see RushDrugAddledFatAss testifying in front of the committee hearing on the imbalance of haterightwing radio on the public airwaves…Of course chaired by SENATOR Warren.

    • It can’t be labeled antisemitic.
      That it will cause a great many to question our contribution to the Israeli military is a positive. So many, in the U.S., have no idea we have monetarily supported Israel for decades!

    • huh, I thought earth was flat/

      There seems to be a great deal of lightning – beautiful as it strkes.

      Thanks for posting this video. Nice to see the earth from above – as we know what’s on earth (war, politics, climate change) can be unattractive.

      • I remember a single frame cartoon from a few decades back. A flying saucer with a little spaceman in it was way up there, looking down on earth. From the surface up came mushroom clouds, loud music, honking horns, smog, screaming, etc. as the spaceman sent his message back to home base: “Though there is much activity on this planet, there is no sign of intelligent life.”

        Imagine if he came back today now that Michele Bachmann, Ick Perry, Ron Paul, Ick Santorum, Moosie Palin, and the teabaggers are all grow’d up and on the loose. Yuck!

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