The Watering Hole: September 27, 2011 — Yaquina Bay Bridge

Photo by Zooey

The Yaquina Bay Bridge is an arch bridge that spans Yaquina Bay south of Newport, Oregon. It is one of the most recognizable of the U.S. Route 101 bridges designed by Conde McCullough.

The bridge opened on September 6, 1936, at a cost of $1,301,016. A total of 220 people worked to pour 30,000 cubic yards (23,000 m³) of concrete and fabricate 3,100 tons of steel.

The main span is flanked by identical 350 ft (107 m) steel arches. The rest of the structure is constructed of reinforced concrete.  One concrete deck girder forms the northern approach, and a series of 5 arches makes up the southern part of the bridge.

This is our quicky daily open thread — Discuss!

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161 thoughts on “The Watering Hole: September 27, 2011 — Yaquina Bay Bridge

    • So, in her mind (and in those of her ilk), if you don’t support Israel 100%, you’re a “savage.” Fuck you, Geller.

      I got into an e-mail exchange and a twitter fight with her Friend in Hate, Robert Spencer (of JihadWatch). Talk about close-minded people.

      • The interesting thing is, they really believe what they’re spouting AND think we’re the crazy ones for not being alarmed.

        We just ain’t wired the same, thank goodness.

      • I’d like to see an encounter like this:

        Pam Geller, meet Sarah Michelle Geller.

        Pam – Sarah.

        Sarah – Pam.

        (psst, Sarah, Pam’s a vampire)

  1. Reminds me of that bridge in Sydney Australia. On quick view, at least. No opera house nearby, though. Maybe where the opera house should be would be a good spot for a commune?

  2. Showing off your new environs, eh, Zooey? Very nice! Maybe someday Wayne and I will come visit, if we ever have the money to make a trip. :(

    Wanted to let you all know that our home internets (plus cable plus phone) went down completely yesterday, still don’t have them back and may not until late tomorrow afternoon.

  3. That bridge design started out life here: Newcastle-upon-Tyne (ancestral turtle breeding ground)

    Sydney Harbour bridge was built 4 years later by the same company that built the Tyne bridge. One of the more elegant bridge designs in my opinion….. there’s a cool one in Portland too.

    Couldn’t get the Rogue Brewery in the shot, Zoo?

    • I know why he’s a mean and violent cop — his name is Tony Baloney.

      That was the name of my arch nemesis in first and second grade. Maybe it’s the same guy.

  4. Yikes! From an article in WaPo on the shifting of health care costs from employer to employee:
    “Peter Cunningham, a researcher at the Center for Studying Health System Change has found that about one out of five families with employer-sponsored insurance were spending more than a tenth of their income on out-of-pocket health care costs by 2008 (the most recent years for which statistics were available). “

    • Not only did my premiums go up, the co-pay and the deductible also increased, a lot. The really sad thing that is happening in PA and maybe happening in others areas of the country, is that MD’s are now owned by private hospitals which now control patient care. My doctor (MD) sold his business to a hospital and I can tell that he is not happy with his decision.

      • We live in a small town. One doctor only. He’s leaving, moving with his family to Australia. A hospital in Pueblo some thirty miles up the road has taken over his practice and if present is prelude, the only way it can go is down. Money money money. It’s all that counts anywhere any more.

  5. Beautiful bridge.

    One of the things that made the US such a powerful economic force, was the building of our own infrastructure.

    I don’t know why the righties oppose that now.

  6. OK, so they aren’t going to shut down the government Friday night, what are they going to do about the expiration of the gas tax? It’s so off the radar there’s no article about it since mid August.

  7. Zooey – we are looking forward to joining you in Oregon, someday. As a matter of fact, my husband is counting the days until his retirement. There is the possibility that he might get laid off next year. If that happens, we will be traveling west sooner than later.

    • The United States, European Union and United Nations all expressed disappointment with Israel’s decision.

      That’s as far as it will go…(shaking my head at the inaction of these entities)

    • And then he bitches when the Palestinians fight back with their sticks and stones. What a fucktard. Israel no longer has strategic value to the US. Time to dump this nation that sucks from the US teet.

    • 20 years ago it was called ‘ethnic cleansing’, 70 years ago it was ‘lebensraum’…..

      Question for the teabagger in your life:

      “Israel claims Jerusalem as the sole capital of its state – what do you think it should do with the 400,000 Palestinians who already live there?”

      *teabags rustling*

    • Here in AZ, it is perfectly legal to have a gun on campus, or in church, or in a bar… but hen again, I live in Arizona.

      If you lived in Texas, and this was a campus in Texas, you’d probably grab your gun and go looking for the perp.

    • Stay safe.

      I listened to Jon Stewart’s interview with Ron Paul. Paul claims that it would be better to create stronger property rights to protect the environment then to have the EPA enforce federal laws. What an idiotic statement. If that were the case, then people would be pulling guns on their neighbors for selling out to the gas fracking companies.

      • create stronger property rights to protect the environment

        WTF? Did he expand that, ummm, “thought”? Does this mean individuals would then have to sue any company they suspect of polluting the air and water? That should go pretty smoothly and efficiently, eh?

        • That’s the essence of libertarianism — a touching faith in the courts. If the fish you catch and eat sicken because a huge ranch is allowing the cows to shit in the river, you just sue them. Twenty years later, the court throws out the case, but at least you didn’t have to have to deal with those fuckers in the EPA.

          As you know, courts are pure and incorruptible and fairly resolve all cases within a few days. Of course, the courts are a government function and we hates the government so maybe we need a system of private courts. Yeah, that will work!

      • I see so if there were stronger property rights one would have the right to do whatever they wanted with their property. And if any neighbor objected to me raising 47 goats, 112 chickens and 20 pigs in the backyard of my house in the middle of town it would be just too bad for them because it is my property and I have stronger property rights?

  8. How far removed from anarchism is libertarianism? An inch? A centimeter? (there I go using that worthless commie-European measure unit again. Ain’t no football field anywhere measured in nothin’ but yards!).

    Anyway, if Amurka has managed to demonstrate one basic fact across its history, it’s that private property rights are NOT the way to preserve ANYTHING at all that’s environmentally significant. A hundred or so years ago there was a plan to run a railroad along the Colorado River through the Grand Canyon. Thank all gods the gubmint grabbed the canyon and slammed the door on “privatization.”

    Still, I mean, just imagine what the Kochs could do with Yosemite. Wow. What a moneymaker that place could be if we could get the damn feds out of there, turn it over to somebody with imagination!

    • Look what Walt did with a chunk of swamp in the middle of Florida. And I don’t think there is any difference between anarchy and libertarianism. Neither has produced a viable society in over 3,500 years of recorded history.

      • Libertarians and right-wingers will assure you that anarchists = leftists = fascists = communists = nazis = socialists.

        The essential libertarian fantasy is that in the perfect, uh, thingie, not state, not society… hmmm. Having a bit of trouble here.

        At any rate, people are basically good and honest and always respect the rights of others, which is why libertarianism doesn’t require government institutions. How this ties in with Ayn Rand’s world in which the brilliant (white) people rise to the top and no one else really counts remains a mystery.

        This fantasy world sounds terrific (L. Neil Smith’s novels were great fun), but I’ve yet to find a libertarian who can define a realistic path from here to there.

      • Hooda, been trying to catch you. The other night you wrote “…if you ever decide to write a sequel and think it might be beneficial to bring someone else in, for whatever reason, I’ll be happy to volunteer.” Click my avatar, use the email, and drop me a note if and when the spirit moves you. Sounds interesting.

    • According to Merriam Webster

      Liberty
      1: the quality or state of being free:
      a : the power to do as one pleases

      Anarchy
      1 a : absence of government
      b : a state of lawlessness or political disorder due to the absence of governmental authority
      c : a utopian society of individuals who enjoy complete freedom without government

      No wonder the poor baggers are confused. Not that they have ever consulted a dictionary.

      • Hard for me to figure, these days, how it is that the concept of doing away with government gets anything other than a moment or two of fleeting attention. How is it that those who advocate and support such are so unable to see beyond the edge of their nose, that they can’t imagine how stomped into the ground they’ll end up being? Fascinating, and very sad as well.

        • That’s the part that pisses me off. SSI and Medicare do work and are the result of our government working to address the needs of all Americans. Education, pollution control, food safety, highways, air traffic control and on and on are all a result of a government working for the benefit of the citizens and not the profits of the few.

          I always want to tell baggers that if you distrust government the next time your house is on fire, grab a garden hose instead of calling the fire department.

  9. I see on TP that Saudi women are getting 10 lashes with a whip for driving a car. Could we maybe institute the same for every politician or news personality who lies in public? I mean, if waterboarding isn’t cruel and unusual punishment I’m certain those on the Right would have no problem with whipping.

  10. I am in a quandary. My daughter has to write a paper against Social Security for her English Class. Others have to write papers defending Social Security. Yikes. I don’t know how to help her.

      • I just read the synopsis on that as I was unfamiliar with it. Interesting premise.

        That may be a good idea… that or have her watch Soylent Green.

        Maybe you and hooda are correct, to treat it in as sarcastic a manner as possible.

    • Hearkening back to my school days, I would have written a paper laced with snark and sarcasm. The only way to be against Social Security is to be a heartless sociopath willing to deny almost 80 years of benefit. You know, a tea bagger Republican.

      • The only place I know to go for arguments against SSI are conservative websites. And I always end up having to take a shower afterwards.

    • The absolute worst thing that can be said about SSI is that the young workers of today are funding the retirement of their elders. If you accept that this is true and has always been true, just what is so bad about that? The only reason it is even close to true is because our government has raided the funds to pay for wars.

      LL, you may want to ask your daughter if she can talk to the teacher and tell the teacher she can’t come up with any sane or rational reason why Social Security is bad and could she please write a paper explaining why.

      It is wrong for the teacher to divide the class in this fashion. The assignment should have been ‘write a paper explaining why Social Security is good or bad.’ And maybe you should have a little chat with the teacher about it.

    • First, have her call it a Ponzi Scheme and then copy verbatim from Rick Perry’s book, Fed Up! the argument against SS.

      If the teacher accuses her of plagiarism she can tell the teacher there IS no rational argument against SS.

    • I would encourage her to write something like; “I’ve tried to come up with cogent arguments against Social Security but couldn’t come up with any. To write anything else would be a lie.” Then she could list the specious claims that others make against SS.

    • Bottom line, LL. Tell your daughter to write her honest opinion and ideas about Social Security. If the teacher balks, be ready to go to the mat with the administration for her. And make sure she writes the best damn paper she can so the two of you can light a fire under the administration.

    • Also, I remember back to when my youngest was in jr high. She had a teacher who wanted the class to write a paper on why invading Iraq would save America. Her paper had one sentence. “Are you crazy?’

      Needless to say, I was called in to discuss this opinion. I asked two questions. First was did the teacher ask students to write a paper on the validity of invading Iraq. Second was if the first question was valid, why was my daughter’s response wrong?

    • She should write the paper arguing against SS, using every stupid talking point out there in Wingnuttia, and in her final section she should explain why those arguments are false.

      That fulfills the requirement, while not completely caving in to rightwing insanity.

  11. There really are no intelligent anti-SSI arguments that one can make. I could get an unintelligible and stupid argument against it if I’d drop my cousin in AZ a note and simply ask him, but I really don’t like to do that — causes me to waste time with a lengthy response picking apart every line.

    I’m with Hooda on this one; I think I’d try for a chat with the teacher and explain why it’s not exactly proper to set it up the way s/he has, that an assignment to “write a paper explaining why Social Security is good or bad” would be by far the better approach.

    • I agree with that Frugal. My developmentally disabled adult son is on SSI and I don’t know what he’d do without it. It really doesn’t go very far each month, but things would be a LOT tighter if he didn’t have it. If he had to survive out on his own he couldn’t do it (though there are no longer any staffed ‘group home’ settings around where we live for him to go to, and the money wouldn’t take care of his needs anyway).
      I think that is part of the social contract of a civilized society – taking care of the least, the most vulnerable among us. I know it is the Christian thing, but the Christians always skip over that part..
      It covers some rent, some of his groceries, and not much in the way of clothing. We do some shopping at GoodWill. Thank God for the Oregon Health Plan. It covers all his health issues, his glasses, his dental checkups, his medications each month. He had a heart procedure up at the Oregon Health Sciences Hospital in June that went well. The Oregon Health Plan paid for it. I don’t know how much longer we’ll have that available for him if they start dismantling Medicare and Medicaid, and the Oregon Health Plan goes on the chopping block.
      There are MANY people like my son in society. Who will take care of them when all the funding for services gets cut?

      • That really is it, muse. Until Jan 22, 2009, America had the idea we supported all Americans. The folks who can take care of themselves can do so. The ones who can’t can’t be left behind. We are a society, a supposedly Christian, Democratic society. We pay attention to and care for the least.

        At least we did until we elected a neegra.

      • I think that is part of the social contract of our civilized society – taking care of the least, the most vulnerable among us.

        Absolutely. The only thing I might add is that I would hope that the social contract of any civilized society is to see to the general well-being of said society first and foremost, including everything from infrastructure to the needs of the people. Any civilization that does less isn’t worth saving.

        We teeter on that brink of worthlessness.

  12. LOL! Marion “Pat” Robertson does occasionally provide some unintended humor. Here’s a guy who has devoted his life to spreading his own interpretation of the Buybull and, apparently, Believes that Jesus is still present in the physical universe. That would make Jesus a ghost or, if He has a body, a zombie. And yet? Good ol’ Pat has the gall to say that “we don’t believe in ghosts” or “the dead rising”!

    http://mediamatters.org/mmtv/201109270020

    • But we do believe in gods walking among us after they have been crucified. Jeebus must be getting awfully lonely and frustrated after 2k years of people ignoring him.

      • Well he could be the guy serving at the 7-11 up on Sr527 by the Fred Meyer….. beard’s a bit on the short side, but dude’s a ringer I tell ya.

    • Supports the theory of the author of ‘Oh God’ (a Jewish fellow AIR) where Jesus hangs out in places like Montauk because they have good oysters.

  13. The more I think about LL’s dilemma, the angrier I get. For a teacher to tell a student to say they have to defend an indefensible position or to attack a correct one is just flat out wrong. To tie their advancement possibilities to such a position is also wrong. This isn’t teaching, it is indoctrination. And control.

    • The only defensible thing I can come up with is perhaps the whole point is to open up a class debate. A teachable moment on how to discuss serious current issues? The papers being written from opposing views may be the first step. The debate itself being the educational point, covering an issue that has for some stupid reason has become so controversial and hotly debated in our society right now. (Though, I think just about everyone is for keeping Social Security, but the politicians and the corporate MSM have created a false crisis once again).
      Once the kids write these papers, will they be having this debate in the classroom? That in itself might produce, in a concrete way for the kids, how crazy this debate is in the first place.. The kids will get it themselves, come to their own conclusions, without having to just listen and accept their own parent’s political views..
      (Playing devil’s advocate here..)

      Just trying to think positively. Though, I really like Zooey’s suggestion.
      Another thing, being married to someone in the medical field and who has worked on health care reform, I am told that Medicare and Medicaid ARE unsustainable without some serious fixes, reforms, reworking. It means commitment to fixing, not dismantling. NOT dismantling.

      • muse, I am curious. The only way that I can see Medicare and Medicaid are vulnerable is because of abuse and fraud on the upper level. Patients can’t seriously defraud either anymore than individuals can seriously defraud Social Security. The weak point for Medicare/Medicaid I see is not utilizing the full field of participants while allowing people like Rick Scott to plunder the system.

        • It’s the demographics. Plus new technology, and technology costs more than anyone every dreamed it would. So absent better cost controlled measures, the introduction of new medicines, new devices, new procedures, it will blow the Medicare budget. The biggest driver is the number of new people coming on which is estimated to be around 12,000 per day of new Medicare enrollees for the next 20+ years.

      • The purpose of this particular assignment is for the class to split up into teams and they draw a social issue from the hat. It was luck of the draw that daughter drew the short straw on the the SSI assignment. And it is set up to be debate style. She also has to interview someone that supports “her” position.

        The problem for me is, that her position will have to be based on lies and misleading statements. She is fully aware that she will have to lie to support this position. I need to help her craft an intelligent argument. But it gives me a knot in the pit of my stomach.

            • That sounds better than what I had envisioned.. I was first thinking grade school. Still, I have no idea how you argue against SSI. it is so necessary for so many, and it is just so little. Without SSI, what is the alternative?

            • Interesting that you say that… I am reading up on the beginnings of SSI… before that, each state had a old person’s pension plan program. The problem with that is that each state could have a pension plan or not and as we have seen in Wisconsin and other places, states are trying to defund state pension plans…. so it would be disastrous.

    • I don’t see this is any different than the standard approach in debate class. It’s challenging but the teacher believes she’s up to the task: develop a cogent argument in support of an opinion. She’s not being required to hold that opinion, just write the paper.

      Under ordinary circumstances, I doubt this would raise an eyebrow. It just happens to be a very touchy subject right now, which adds to the power of the assignment, IMO.

      I bet she doesn’t get the reaction I got from a college debate instructor, who told the class I should be shot. No lie.

      • A college debate instructor told the class you should be shot? What was the subject of your debate?

        And you are correct, gummitch, it is a lesson in the tools of rhetoric. It could be a real learning experience in that she will learn the tricks that an opposing side can use to get their argument across.

  14. Anyone see the TP report on how we should deport illegal domestic violence report victims? So just what are we supposed to do with the illegal Domestic violence report perpetrators? Elect them to Republican office?

    • Did they ever fix the login over there? I didn’t see any Yahoo, AOL, or Hotmail comments the last time I looked.

      • Be interesting to see what might happen if someone who signs in with Facebook were to make repeated comments questioning why there were no comments from other sources.

        Lots of repeated questions.

        • I’m up too early again. I tried a comment on the Olbermann thread that went through. I had to log in, then refresh the page an extra time, then the message telling me to log in didn’t come up. Maybe they got it fixed. Now it will take some time before the folks who used the non-Facebook log in to find out they can comment again.

  15. It’s later than it’s ever been before in all the history of this universe. That explains why I’m tired, probably. Or else it was because I watched two episodes of the Sopranos tonight — trying to figure out how come the series lasted so long, no clues yet.

    Well, sack time. If I follow my habit I should sleep for maybe three hours. It’s a bitch to get old; I strongly advise against it.

    Meanwhile, my poetic thought for the day (from what must have been a very similar day back in 2005):

    ‘Tis Evolution

    ‘Tis Evolution, Science says,
    Which well-defines that main event –
    The process by which Man derived
    From gasses in the Firmament.
    But there are those who disagree,
    Believe that men were Heaven sent
    With purpose surely more divine
    Than Nature’s fleeting Ornament!

    As Science seeks reality –
    From concept through experiment –
    In quest of those elusive truths
    Of Origins, of Man’s Descent,
    Religion offers its “Design”
    Embodied in naive intent –
    And thus confirms it mirrors God’s
    “Intelligence,” i.e.: Absent!

    Buenas noches.

  16. While not as erudite as frugal…

    Let us manage so as later, we can look him in the face,
    And tell him – what he’d very much prefer –
    That, while he saved the Empire, his employer saved his place,
    And his mates (that’s you and me) looked out for her.
    He’s and absent-minded beggar and he may forget it all,
    But we do not want his kiddies to remind him
    That we sent ‘em to the workhouse while their daddy hammered Paul,
    So we’ll help the homes that Tommy left behind him!
    Cook’s home – Duke’s home – home of millionaire,
    (Fifty thousand horse and foot going to Table Bay!)
    Each of ‘em doing his country’s work
    (and what have you got to spare?)
    Pass the hat for your credit’s sake
    and pay – pay – pay!

    And good night all. (boots come next)

  17. Hoodas boots have been removed, yet it appears I’m the only one left to carry on. So I’ll begin by singing my favorite song……..Did ya like it? Deafcon5?

  18. We’re foot-slog-slog-slog-sloggin’ over Africa -
    Foot-foot-foot-foot-sloggin’ over Africa -
    (Boots-boots-boots-boots-movin’ up an’ down again!)
    There’s no discharge in the war!

    Seven-six-eleven-five-nine-an’-twenty mile to-day -
    Four-eleven-seventeen-thirty-two the day before -
    (Boots-boots-boots-boots-movin’ up an’ down again!)
    There’s no discharge in the war!

    Don’t-don’t-don’t-don’t-look at what’s in front of you.
    (Boots-boots-boots-boots-movin’ up an’ down again)
    Men-men-men-men-men go mad with watchin’ em,
    An’ there’s no discharge in the war!

    Try-try-try-try-to think o’ something different -
    Oh-my-God-keep-me from goin’ lunatic!
    (Boots-boots-boots-boots-movin’ up an’ down again!)
    There’s no discharge in the war!

    Count-count-count-count-the bullets in the bandoliers.
    If-your-eyes-drop-they will get atop o’ you!
    (Boots-boots-boots-boots-movin’ up an’ down again) -
    There’s no discharge in the war!

    We-can-stick-out-’unger, thirst, an’ weariness,
    But-not-not-not-not the chronic sight of ‘em -
    Boot-boots-boots-boots-movin’ up an’ down again,
    An’ there’s no discharge in the war!

    ‘Taint-so-bad-by-day because o’ company,
    But night-brings-long-strings-o’ forty thousand million
    Boots-boots-boots-boots-movin’ up an’ down again.
    There’s no discharge in the war!

    I-’ave-marched-six-weeks in ‘Ell an’ certify
    It-is-not-fire-devils, dark, or anything,
    But boots-boots-boots-boots-movin’ up an’ down again,
    An’ there’s no discharge in the war!

    Rudyard Kipling

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