The WATERINGWHOLE: Wednesday, October 19, 2011

THE FOLLOWING IS A WORK IN PROGRESS, obtained at great difficulty and expense by hacking into the computer network of the network of computer hackers currently hacking into the computers that are used to infiltrate the network of hacks intent on infiltrating the 99% movement.

WE, THE 99% OF THE PEOPLE OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA, in order to form a More Perfect Union, do hereby make and ordain these Demands upon our government, and the 1% who control a disproportionate share of the Income, Wealth and Political Power.

COGNIZANT OF THE REALITY THAT THE RULING CLASS WILL OPPOSE EACH AND EVERY DEMAND presented by the 99%, We, the 99%, hereby DEMAND the following:

WE DEMAND an END TO THE MINIMUM WAGE;
WE DEMAND an END TO CORPORATE TAXES;
WE DEMAND our OWN BEN AND JERRY’S ICE CREAM FLAVOR;
WE DEMAND an END TO CHILD LABOR LAWS;
WE DEMAND an END TO PROTECTING OUR ENVIRONMENT;
WE DEMAND reruns of FATHER KNOWS BEST;
WE DEMAND an END TO SOCIAL SECURITY;
WE DEMAND an END TO MEDICARE;
WE DEMAND an END TO FOOD STAMPS;
WE DEMAND an END TO UNEMPLOYMENT INSURANCE;
WE DEMAND a CHICKEN IN EVERY POT;
WE DEMAND an END TO ALL GOVERNMENT REGULATIONS;
WE DEMAND our PUBLIC SCHOOLS TEACH THE BIBLE AS SCIENCE.

WE DEMAND an INCREASE TO MINIMUM WAGE;
WE DEMAND an INCREASE TO CORPORATE TAXES;
WE DEMAND our OWN BEN AND JERRY’S ICE CREAM FLAVOR;
WE DEMAND an END TO CHILD LABOR INTERNATIONALLY;
WE DEMAND an INCREASE IN REGULATIONS PROTECTING OUR ENVIRONMENT;
WE DEMAND reruns of THE SMOTHERS BROTHERS and LAUGH-IN;
WE DEMAND an END TO THE SOCIAL SECURITY INCOME CAP;
WE DEMAND an ENLARGEMENT OF MEDICARE TO MEDICARE FOR ALL;
WE DEMAND an END TO THE NEED FOR FOOD STAMPS;
WE DEMAND an END TO UNEMPLOYMENT;
WE DEMAND a CHICKEN IN EVERY POT;
WE DEMAND an END TO ALL GOVERNMENT REGULATIONS;
WE DEMAND pot IN EVERY CHICKEN;
WE DEMAND our PUBLIC SCHOOLS TEACH SCIENCE;
WE DEMAND FAIR TRADE AGREEMENTS THAT FOSTER AMERICAN JOBS;
WE DEMAND THAT THOSE WHO CONTROL 80% OF THE WEALTH IN THIS COUNTRY BEAR 80% OF THE TAX BURDEN;
WE DEMAND our ELECTED REPRESENTATIVES REPRESENT WE, THE 99%;
WE DEMAND a RETURN TO REGULATED CAPITALISM AND STRONG ANTI-TRUST LAWS;
WE DEMAND a RETURN OF THE ESTATE TAX, SO THAT EVERYONE STARTS LIFE ON AN EQUAL FOOTING, GUARANTEEING THAT EACH INDIVIDUAL SUCCEEDS ON HIS OR HER OWN MERIT, NOT ON INHERITED WEALTH AND POWER.

This is our Open Thread. I’ve made my demands, now it’s your turn.

269 thoughts on “The WATERINGWHOLE: Wednesday, October 19, 2011

  1. WE DEMAND an END TO THE SOCIAL SECURITY INCOME CAP;
    Been reading a bit around congresscritters and others bemoaning the cuts in ss contribution that Obama has proposed to extend.
    Why nothing, NOTHING about removing the cap to solve that lil prollem.???

  2. WE DEMAND our ELECTED REPRESENTATIVES REPRESENT WE, THE 99%;
    Campaign finance reform that PROHIBITS ANY PERSON OR CORPORATION from donating to or passing any funds to any elected official!

  3. Good post, BnF…WE DEMAND AN END TO ALL WARS, BOTH FOREIGN & DOMESTIC….Like the pot in every chicken, I need more pots…LOL…Peace, Blessings & Joy to you all..

  4. After careful consideration, I don’t demand anything
    Congress will comply or they don’t anymore MONEY.
    I wrote this to AT&T and it worked.

    Dear AT&T,

    I will no longer be sending you a check.
    AT&T has proven to be dishonest and deceitful.
    Regardless of any promise made by AT&T,
    I will no longer send money.

    Goodbye

    This tactic works.
    It works on religion.
    It works on insurance companies.
    It works on all levels of government in our country.
    First, we must end lobbying and have public election funding

      • They slammed me for my long distance carrier at 5.00 a minute.
        I had IDT long distance, not AT&T.
        After 16 hours, yes 16 hours (two days) trying to fight a gigantic run around I finally told them that no matter what, I will not send money.
        I terminated my land lines and now operate with a paygo phone system.
        They refunded the remaing balance and still tried to kiss my ass but it was a little chapped after all that crap.
        They tried to offer upgraded bundles and packages but they wanted a contract that was more like indentured servitude.

        • i also got slammed years ago by some fly-by-night company. It came on my ATT bill. I screamed, ATTremoved it & put in my account that *I* must verify any changes. The slammer charges were dropped.
          Fast forward to August ’11. I dropped AT&T after 44 years of service and am now using a Verizon table cell unit connected to the cordless phone(s) for $20/mo with all the services & unlimited long distance.

    • That’s a good one – the rest of the world does not understand why you turned your political process into a single …. long….. election process.

      I suspect money has something to do with it…

      Frankly I would rather watch the Kardashians than have to watch a 24-7 media circle jerk that they call ‘political news’.

      Actually, I rather stick a pencil in my eye first… then the Kardashians, then the 24-7 jerk off on my TV.

  5. *Congressional Reform Act of 2011*

    1. No Tenure / No Pension.

    A Congressman collects a salary while in office and receives no
    pay when they are out of office.

    2. Congress (past, present & future) participates in Social
    Security.

    All funds in the Congressional retirement fund move to the
    Social Security system immediately. All future funds flow into
    the Social Security system, and Congress participates with the
    American people. It may not be used for any other purpose.

    3. Congress can purchase their own retirement plan, just as all
    Americans do.

    4. Congress will no longer vote themselves a pay raise.
    Congressional pay will rise by the lower of CPI or 3%.

    5. Congress loses their current health care system and
    participates in the same health care system as the
    American people.

    6. Congress must equally abide by all laws they impose on the
    American people.

    7. All contracts with past and present Congressmen are void
    effective 1/1/12. The American people did not make this
    contract with Congressmen. Congressmen made all these
    contracts for themselves.

    Serving in Congress is an honor, not a career. The Founding
    Fathers envisioned citizen legislators, so ours should serve their
    term(s), then go home and back to work.

    THIS IS HOW YOU FIX CONGRESS!

  6. “Campaign finance reform that PROHIBITS ANY PERSON OR CORPORATION from donating to or passing any funds to any elected official!”

    This is my demand as well. I wouldn’t even allow them to accept free coffee.

    • Ciizens United v Federal Election Commissions needs to be overturned. With the Supreme Court loaded with cronies from the Cheney… er Bush administartion, I don’t see that happening within my lifetime.

      • Not if Clarence Thomas is impeached/removed for conflict of interest offences…

        But then again… you are probably right.

  7. Every time Pat Buchanan opens his mouth, or picks up a pen, he makes “the slow death of the people who created and ruled the nation” look like a really good idea. I doubt that was the effect he intended.

  8. The Wasilla Whackjob said this morning that Newt would “clobber” Obama in a debate.

    She may have a point, since Newt is a master debater.

  9. WE DEMAND a CHICKEN IN EVERY POT;

    How about:

    WE DEMAND A CHICKENHAWK IN EVERY POT

    There fixed it for ya…

    With fava beans and a nice glass of chianti….. ffvvvvffvvvvv

    But not Newt, I’m watching my cholesterol.

  10. We demand that the 1% spend 1 week a year picking fruit, cutting up chickens or changing linens.
    We’ll pay them of course, but not what they might expect.
    And they’ll have to sleep in a tent.

  11. Well – I think I’m caught up on the debate….

    Stunned silence on Ron Paul’s digging up and burning the corpse of St Ronnie Raygun for negotiating with terrorists.

    Mitt ‘I can’t have illegals, I’m running for office’ Romney and Gov Jeff Davis going for it over issues that the brownshirts love – bashing brown people

    Sanitarium struggling to stay relevant

    Pizza man wnats to keep his hostages in GUantanamo

    Batshit keeps firing Dominionist bullets for Jesus.

    The crowd thinks the brown people should pay for having the crap bombed out of them – I’d like to see her send a bill to Iraq, or Afghanistan or LIbya (WTF, she thinks the US liberated Libya?).

    There was her obligatory ball-wahsing for Bibi Netanyahu, which frankly pisses me off no end:
    “BACHMANN: No, we should not be cutting foreign aid to Israel. Israel is our greatest ally”

    When was the last time Israel sent a single soldier to die for the US? Come to think of it, why does Israel still spy on the US? What ally bombed the shit out of one of the US navy ships and never apologised, explained or compensated the victims?

    • Such an excellent point. What makes Israel “our greatest ally”? I’m coming up empty. Is it all the foreign aid money they’re willing to accept? Or is it because we’re constantly tarred in the world’s eyes because we support their intransigence in the Security Council?

      • Not so tough call as to who may be the prevaricator:

        Sources claiming attack was a mistake
        US tapes confirm Israel’s ’67 attack on ‘Liberty’ was accidental

        or those who were actually there? I’m going with these folks for the truth!

        Sources claiming attack was deliberate

        Survivors of the attack

        USS Liberty Veterans Association website
        USS Liberty Memorial

    • Oh and I miss a couple:

      Newt Gingrich floating like a giant gas bag high over the stage and then going up in a ball of flame like the Hindenburg over Romneycare and its origins – oh the humanity!

      Huntsman: oh he voted with his feet and took off his red nose and did something more useful with his time.

    • In my mind, I have always thought of France as “our greatest ally.” Without France, we would not be a nation freed from King George III. And those French-bashers on the right should learn a little history. When our revolutionary War ended, it ended with British forces surrendering to French forces. We owe our freedom to the French, not the Israelis.

      And Great Britain would be our second best friend. 🙂

  12. We demand that government representatives in office and candidates running for office stick solely to the issues.
    We demand an end to lobbyists.
    We demand a cap on all Ceo’s, and other such heads of coporations, salaries and bonuses.
    We demand a cap on the salaries and terms of office for all elected government representatives, and that these be set by the voters of the country.
    We demand that all corporations not be classified as a person, and be banned from contributing money to any elected representative in office, or candidate running for office.

  13. I heard a segment on Morning Edition focusing on Nevada’s political scene. A UNLV professor noted that Nevada has had extremely low taxes and very few regulations (the Repub meme) for years. Now they have the highest rate of foreclosures and of personal bankruptcies, and the highest unemployment rate in the country.

    Weirdly, it’s also the most urbanized state in the country. Something like 87% of the population lives in two counties, which include Vegas and Reno. Rural voters: 13%.

    • What’s next? A comparrison of similarities between Joseph Stalin and Ghandi?

      How many teaparty protestors have been arrested?
      How many OWS protestors have been arrested?

      • Ghandi and Stalin both had mustaches and wore John Lennon glasses – Ok so before they were John Lennon glasses.

        Oh this is easy!

    • ‘In some ways, they’re not that different from some of the protests that we saw coming from the Tea Party,’ he added during the interview for Nightline conducted in Jamestown, North Carolina.

      ‘Both on the left and the right, I think people feel separated from their government. They feel that their institutions aren’t looking out for them.’

      I don’t understand this as fumbling the ball. I think he was just making a statement that people are frustrated with Washington. The tea party started out complaining about TARP and was then taken over by the Kochs, Fox, and the Repub party.

  14. Just got back from town and someone has put signs at both ends of the bridge I cross. “Eric Cantor, fix this bridge!”
    🙂

  15. I have a question… does anyone think the rank and file Republicans are paying attention to the GOP debates yet? Is anyone? (besides us wonks, I mean?)

  16. Excellent post BnF! Excellent comments too.

    Boy was that an embarrassing display last night. My brain is still recovering.
    Here are a few quotes I read this morning that I thought were pretty good:

    From John Cassidy of The New Yorker:

    “Welcome to the start of the Republican primaries proper: a no-holds-barred knockout contest between a former moderate Republican governor running as a born-again conservative and a former Democratic campaign manager running as a right-wing fruit cake.”

    From Conor Friedersdorf of The Atlantic:

    “The irony is that as a lifelong Texan, and a rich one for some time now, the notion that Perry has never so much as done business with anyone who employs illegal immigrants is laughable. Does he ever eat out? Or take taxis? Does he verify the legal status of every house cleaner, gardener, plumber, locksmith and carpenter who sets foot on his property? How will his donors feel about the notion that anyone who has employed an illegal immigrant deserves censure?”

    On that same subject of illegal immigration, Romney himself making that weird but likely genuine comment in response to Perry’s personal attack, accusing him of hiring ‘illegals’ to work in his yard, and Romney replying that he complained to the company he used for landscaping that had actually hired them:

    “I’m running for office, for Pete’s sake, I can’t have illegals!”

    So.. If he WEREN’T running for office it wouldn’t have mattered?..

    • I think that the funny part is that the Reichwhiners are so disgusted with the childish performance of the whole group that they have not yet thrown out the obvious defense that CNN, via their format, set a trap. The fact that they all gleefully took the bait kinda invalidates the defense even though there’s a bit of truth in it.

    • That “debate” turned out to be the most ridiculous forum for seven loudmouthed nincompoops I’ve ever run across in my nearly 70 years. I mean, when the only obvious conclusion is that the total IQ of those seven combined wouldn’t top even Dubya’s own 100, it gets a little scary. To think that one of those yahoos could actually get elected POTUSOA is a bit hard to come to grips with. Makes me think we ought to tear down the border fence, merge with Mexico, and allow open migration in both directions. I’d probably head straight away for the Yucatan and vicinity, and see if I could elevate myself sufficiently to live amongst the Mayan people, one of the few remaining grand intellects of North America.

      Republicans: how much further into the non-intellectual muck is it possible to sink?

  17. “WE DEMAND a RETURN OF THE ESTATE TAX, SO THAT EVERYONE STARTS LIFE ON AN EQUAL FOOTING, GUARANTEEING THAT EACH INDIVIDUAL SUCCEEDS ON HIS OR HER OWN MERIT, NOT ON INHERITED WEALTH AND POWER.”

    No argument on the estate tax, agree 100% with the stated premise. But what’s the real meaning of “succeeds on his or her own merit”? We always seem to measure success as the gaining of monetary wealth . . . even as we forget that Wolfgang Amadeus Mozart, creator of grand music sufficient to fill, in today’s vernacular, nearly 200 CDs, died as a relatively young man, a pauper, and was buried in an anonymous hole in the ground along with dozens of other (“useless”) paupers.

    Is there not some way for “civilized” human societies to find the means to NOT rely exclusively on wealth accumulation as the only measure of success? Besides, what the hell is “money” anyway, other than an entity created by the ruling class and used ultimately to control the subservient class?

  18. Just curious, by would “WE DEMAND an END TO ALL GOVERNMENT REGULATIONS;”?

    I thought government regulations were what protected us from unscrupulous corproations. Without government regulations, there would be no teeth to the EPA, and corporations would put smoke stacks on their corporate headquarters just to say Fuck You to those of us who care about the environment.

    • Most don’t recall the days when cars spewed toxic crap causing people to gasp and wheeze.
      Standing on a corner watching the belching exhaust pipes (and breathing the toxic crap).

      Too young to know there wasn’t an expiration date on food – to keep them from sickening people. Sour milk and rotten eggs – the odors of – unmistakable.

      Lemon laws tightened up what unscrupulous salespeople could do to folk with no consequences…

    • I get the feeling that corporations are going all in on this. If they can pull it off, convince voters that regulations are a bad thing, get rid of ALL protections, then we’ll never be able to put them in place again. They will OWN it all – the people who make the rules and laws (and regulations) and all the people in this country. The people will be completely at their mercy. And they have no mercy.

  19. Quote of the Day:

    “First of all, I don’t even know what SimCity is. Okay? I don’t even know what it is. Secondly, it’s a lie. That’s all I can say. I don’t even know what SimCity is,” – Herman Cain, on the claim that 9-9-9 is inspired by SimCity’s default tax rates, which he didn’t make when first confronted with SimCity.

    • How does he know its a lie? I mean his plan comes from a dude with an acounting degree and no background in economics…. who, while staying at this Holiday Inn Express one night in the hope of receiving the divine inspiration the advert claims,…. must have played Simcity to kill some time while the pay-per-view porn was offline, instead of writing Uncle Tom’s tax plan…

      … you have to admit my scenario is much more plausible than Hermie’s?

  20. Noting that the US now foots 18 percent of Israel’s defense budget, WaPo’s veteran national security reporter Walter Pincus offers some important context:

    “Nine days ago, the Israeli cabinet reacted to months of demonstrations against the high cost of living there and agreed to raise taxes on corporations and people with high incomes ($130,000 a year). It also approved cutting more than $850 million, or about 5 percent, from its roughly $16 billion defense budget in each of the next two years. If Israel can reduce its defense spending because of its domestic economic problems, shouldn’t the United States — which must cut military costs because of its major budget deficit — consider reducing its aid to Israel?”

    Last night’s GOP debate revealed that the only thing the GOP will never cut is aid to Israel.

    • Buying cluster bombs for Israel is a direct route to bringing back Jesus. Its fantastic leverage of $s if you are a Fundie. I mean why bother with all that expensive and messy spreading of values and democracy, you know the US exceptional role – ‘thousand points of shite’ stuff. That’s the slow road to salvation on Earth. Let’s just hand the guns and bombs to the Israeli’s – who are going to get forcibly converted, those that don’t peg anyway, and let’s get straight to Armageddon!

      That’s what Batshit means when she says Israel is our ‘greatest ally’ – *if* your goal is to get Armageddon going as quickly as you can.

      Anderson Cooper – where was your followup on this? – patsy.

    • Wow – the Israelis are a bunch of f***ing commie pinkos – who knew?

      Send in the drones, I bet we can take out Netanyahu when he cuts the ribbon on the next Israeli settlement.

  21. Cain’s “apples and oranges” defense last night was HILARIOUS!! And the fact he keeps saying that HIS people who developed this plan understand it, but he won’t say who they are..
    It is all very weird. “Trust me”.. Yeah.

  22. And Ron Paul is done with Conservatives. Once he said last night that we should cut off aid to Israel, and then said the thing about Reagan negotiating with terrorists.. Oops..

    • If it wasn’t for the fact that Paul wants to stick his nose into women’s uteruses, he’d be an admirable conservative. He does do a great job of repeatedly pointing out the rancid hypocrisy endemic in the current so-called ‘conservatives’.

      Everytime he says something and there’s a stony silence from the brownshirts…. priceless.

  23. Anderson Cooper repeated the lie that 47% don’t pay taxes. This drives me nuts. The poor pay sales tax! The poor pay other taxes. They just don’t pay federal income tax. The host of the debate repeating that lie that 47% of the people don’t pay taxes is just sad and misleading.

    • Was that the question where Perry diverted and went after Romney on the hiring illegal workers thing? Where Perry said he’d answer the question he wanted to answer – and the crowd started to boo?

    • I’ll give him a teeny, tiny, bit of slack on that one. He used it in a question that was designed to get the candidates to confirm that they want to raise taxes on those who, for whatever reason, don’t currently pay federal income taxes. I would have given him a completely free pass if he had a follow up for Crazy Shelly, who really ran with the bait, something along the lines of “so you want to initiate income tax on retirement income”?

      Now that I think about it I just don’t recall whether he said “pay no taxes” or “pay no federal income taxes”. There’s a big difference between the two. Still; I think that the question had the desired effect of revealing that the freaks want “poor people” to pay the same rates as “rich people”.

  24. GOOD NEWS! Come January, I’m getting what amounts to a $30 per month raise! S.S. has finally noticed that some costs have gone up since the last raise in 2009, so voila, here we go! It’ll be reduced some by a concurrent (as yet unannounced) increase in my monthly Medicare deduction, but with any luck at all I’ll net close to twenty bucks! EVERY MONTH! Yee Haw!

    • Me too! Huzza!

      Of course, the local trolls are all over the story. I won’t repeat their crap and will just say that they are a bunch of vile fools who seem to think that there’s something fundamentally wrong with anyone who ends up depending on Social Security as their retirement income. One of my comments got past the censors but the ones where I respectfully directed my comment at specific posters have been blocked.

      • Those who gripe about SS and Medicare – I wanted them to meet my brother, who at age 50, needed both after having a cancerous kidney removed the remaining quickly deteriorating, needing dialysis. MC also makes those in that position to have catastrophic coverage — another huge bite out of SS!
        I despise those who would begrudge anyone in need.

        • I also like to hammer the point that those of us who derive their income from Social Security typically pay every cent of it back into the economy. The Reichwhiners can’t or won’t understand it but it’s a point that needs to be made.

          Case in point: Dad entered retirement somewhat better off than I did and SS was his fun money. He could have lived without it so he kind of made a point of spending the whole lot; usually in local businesses.

          • My dad’s brother, my uncle, father of my wingnut cousin, was wealthy (he earned it, too). He donated all of his S.S. every month to, iirc, the Minnesota Society for Crippled Children. His son, my cousin, inherited a huge pile (of which he never earned a red cent) and hates Social Security, Medicare, any program designed to help people. Hard to figure what it is that destroys some people’s minds. Makes me ask what is this thing called greed and what’s it’s genesis? Why so prevalent in some and absent in others?

            • That is the trillion dollar question. It’s been asked, at least, as long as the written word has existed and I don’t think we’ve ever come close to a single answer.

            • I wonder if the Great Depression and the widespread misery that came with it influenced the father and not the son at all.

            • I bet that cousin takes his SS check anyway frugal. I equate greed with fear, or at least fear of one’s own inadequacy. Money buys power, and people who are willing to help you reenforce the myth that you are somehow special and important.

            • Uncle was born in 1900, died in ’95. He graduated third in his HS class (which consisted of two girls plus himself) and never went to college. He started working in the local small town bank when he was fifteen, sweeping floors after school; worked his way up through the ranks and eventually bought a controlling interest in it somewhere around 1940, an interest which he held (and which grew tremendously in value) until he died. Cousin was born in 1941 and never lacked for anything in his life. He was, to put it mildly, spoiled rotten. He “worked” in the bank as a cashier for his entire working life; the working part came to a halt when he turned fifty and “retired” to Sun City AZ. He inherited several million on his father’s death.

              Uncle earned his fortune — he worked in that same bank from age 15 till shortly before he died at age 95. Eighty years is a long time to hold a job. He was generous to a fault; to my knowledge, no one who ever needed help in Gaylord MN was ever turned away or denied it. Uncle was always there to help. He was generous to a fault, but never showed his generosity off.

              Cousin is the opposite, across the board and in every way. Funny how that works.

        • It’s also important to pound into their tiny brains that the amounts paid out to SSID recipients–people who are literally incapable of holding down a job–are pathetically small. No one is buying flash cars and giant tvs on Social Security. Morans.

    • Now, wait just a minute… According to the Libertarian that my daughter had to interview about the subject, you are just a pawn in an unsustainable system. To wit:

      “The Economic and Social Engineering of entire generations created an uninformed and vulnerable populace that will be the certain victims of an unsustainable system.”

  25. Last night both Newt and Mitt said they would rely on science (scientists) to determine acceptable locations for nuclear waste disposal. Perry agreed with Mitt’s statement.

    So where do they stand on the science of global climate change and all the scientific reports that support the EPA’s actions and recommendations?

    • But see, climate change is cyclical, something God does every now and then and has nothing to do with anything humans do. I suspect they’d subscribe to James Watt’s “When the last tree is felled, Jesus Christ will return.” (something close to that).

      That’s due to happen this coming Friday, btw. Last I heard, at least.

      • Shi*t I’d better get that bloody cherry tree down tomorrow – I’m too busy today.

        “Climate goes in, climate goes out, never a miscommunication – *you* can’t explain it” – Almost Bill O’Reilly.

    • A while back, Alyssa at Think Progress had a post about whether Keith leaving MSNBC had made a big difference in the ratings. It didn’t seem to make as much difference when he left, as when his show started on Current. What I did notice, that has not been discussed, is that the numbers dropped even more after Cenk left. I believe some people quit MSNBC because if Cenk couldn’t speak his mind, that put the credibility of the other shows in question.
      Cenk’s new show in November, and Jennifer Granholm’s show in January, are going to squeeze the MSNBC ratings even more, because with Al Gore running Current, their credibility with the left will be unquestioned.

  26. Michael Hastings argues that before Libya, Obama’s foreign­ policy decisions were based on the mistakes of the Bush era, “predicated on a foreign-policy doctrine with which he fundamentally disagreed”:

    [Libya] was the first war he started on his own – and the success of the Libyan rebellion is largely the result of the decisions he made at the very outset of the uprising. … Insiders say Obama laid out five guiding principles for any intervention in Libya: “that it be effective, multilateral, follow international law, put no American boots on the ground, and pursue a well-defined, achievable goal.”

    This interaction is why I feel vindicated I voted for Obama. Imagine any GOPer being this smart:

    Gates offered a last-ditch case against intervention, arguing that Libya had little strategic value. He warned that the U.S. often ended up “owning” what happened, pointing to Kosovo and the no-fly zone over Kurdistan in Iraq. He said he was wary of getting involved in a third Muslim country, and feared “a stalemate.”

    The president answered these arguments himself. According to one participant’s summary, Obama said: Look, the question of who rules Libya is probably not a vital interest to the United States. The atrocities threatened don’t compare to atrocities in other parts of the world, I hear that. But there’s a big “but” here. First of all, acting would be the right thing to do, because we have an opportunity to prevent a massacre, and we’ve been asked to do it by the people of Libya, their Arab neighbors and the United Nations. And second, the president said, failing to intervene would be a “psychological pendulum, in terms of the Arab Spring, in favor of repression.” He concluded: “Just signing on to a no-fly zone so that we have political cover isn’t going to cut it. That’s not how America leads.” Nor, he added, is it the “image of America I believe in.”

    http://www.rollingstone.com/politics/news/inside-obamas-war-room-20111013?print=true

  27. Quote of the Day II:

    “A system that rejects a Jon Huntsman in favor of a Herman Cain isn’t a primary process. It is a primal scream,” – Dana Milbank, WaPo.

  28. DEMAND THAT ALL PEOPLE WHO CLAIM TO SPEAK FOR GOD DO SO FROM THEIR CLOSET WITHE THE DOOR CLOSED AS PER THEIR HOLY BOOK.

    One more Frothy call for legislating his morality for all is gonna make me hurl.

  29. Being one of those types who subscribes to the theory that the reason man is on Earth is because Earth is actually a penal colony/insane asylum for some other alien race then it makes sense that when the mother ship arrives Friday they will beam up the sane and rational people as having learned their lesson and leave the whackadoodles to try again for another few thousand years.

  30. Shelly, Shelly, Shelly, all white after Labor Day? Tsk, tsk. Was she going for the Navy vote or did she and Marcus have a little RnR planned for the later evening? These are things I must get to the bottom of, kinda.

  31. I did my monthly banking at my credit union today. There were 4 tellers and 2 managers on duty, twice as many as last month. They said they have had a lot of new members in the last month.

    • That’s excellent. Josh Marshall was wringing his hands about the evil banks, and how he’d love to take his business from them, but what’s a New Yorker to do? There aren’t any independent banks anymore, he whined. I sent off an email: Two words, Josh. Credit. Union.

      What a tool.

    • I bank with a locally owned chain and have found them to be quite good. My last experience with a national bank caused me to keep money in a hole in the floor for a couple years.

  32. From TP:

    Freshman Rep. Jaime Herrera Beutler (R-WA) told a town hall gathering Monday that “the whole purpose” of the meeting “is to hear from you.” But apparently Herrera Beutler isn’t interested in hearing from everyone.

    The congresswoman’s Communications Director Casey Bowman called the Centralia Chronicle Friday to ask them not to publish a notice of the town hall, out of fear that people would come and say “whatever’s on their minds,” the paper reports

    Repubs really don’t care for democracy, do they?

    • Democracy is just Too Messy. But they didn’t seem to mind it when it was Democratic Congress critters being yelled at by Tea party people.

      • Well, that’s different, dontcha know? Those were real Americans exercising their First Amendment rights. Any constituents who came to give Beutler a piece of their minds are clearly a mob.

        Repubs don’t want to hear anything from citizens unless it’s in lockstep with their ideology. Witness the Cantors and McConnells blustering that they listen to Americans and what Americans want are lower corporate taxes and fewer regulations — none of that tax the rich nonsense.

        • And yet the polls on OWS show that significant majorities support the general aims of the protest to sanction/censure/prosecute etc the financial industry and to address income disparity by increasing the tax burden on the rich to Clintonian rates.

          The GOP *is* the party of the 1% and they are blatantly ignoring the will of the 99% and lying about it all the way. Trouble is the celebrity-corporate-media is part of the 1% too of wishes to wash the balls of the 1%.

  33. Endorsement of the Day:

    I know you were all wondering since you may have seen Wayne Newton in the front row at the debate last night. He went on Fox & Friends this morning and his throwing his weight(?) behind………..
    .
    .
    Michele Bachmann.

    Wasn’t that worth the wait. Heh.

  34. By the way, if anyone hasn’t watched the most recent TDS segment “Scorn in America” needs to do so. “It must be tough for Republicans to love America so much, but hate three-quarters of the people living in it,” Stewart said.

  35. In women’s news….

    pRick Santorum is pledging to defund contraception and Jim Demint (Demented?) wants to make it illegal for a woman to discuss abortion options over the internet.

    Why any woman votes Republican is beyond me.

  36. I really hate to bring up that awful woman from Alaska but her response to the debate is such classic word salad that it has to be shared and enjoyed.

    Palin: I was looking for candidates to show us what their plan is, not just verbalize this idea that they have a plan…I didn’t get a lot of that…Americans in general are looking eventually here that top candidate to start rising to the top so we can start concentrating on preparing the GOP candidate to face Obama in the debates in the general election and we didn’t get that out of this debate to be honest with you, Greta. I think Americans would agree with me…

    The rest of the article is pretty good too.

    http://crooksandliars.com/john-amato/sarah-palin-chides-vegas-gop-presidenti

  37. OK, this cracked me up. It’s from a Daily Kos piece about vile old Rimjob and his despicable commentary about the LRA and how Obama is sending troops specifically to kill Christians. Good piece and worth reading, but this got a major snort from me:

    There is no way Limbaugh could, at this point, not know the general record of the group he was aligning himself with. Even if the only news he ever concerned himself with was the mention of his own name, like a cat hearing a can opener, that would at least had led him to the Inhofe speech outlining the barbarism of the group.

      • I’m not sure about Lushbo but Bill0 has claimed, many times, that there’s no such thing as a Christian terrorist. He changes the subject when someone mentions Christian sex-criminals though I can’t imagine why.

        • Ah as long as the “widespread human rights violations, including murder, abduction, mutilation, sexual enslavement of women and children and forcing children to participate in hostilities.” are for Jesus, Fat Nazi Boy is down with that….

  38. A recent caller to Thom Hartmann’s show ran off the list of good things that have happened with a Republican President and Democrats in Congress and I had an epiphany, of sorts.

    When a Republican is in the White House the Democrats work with him because what’s good for the country is good for them too. When a Democrat is in the White House, especially if he’s a black guy, the Republicans devote themselves to thwarting him in the hope of regaining the White House.

  39. Tim Noah translates politician body language:

    “Something to remember about touching is it’s a hierarchical gesture,” [Elizabeth] Kuhnke advises. “The person who initiates the touch holds the authority. The doctor touches the patient, the teacher touches the student, and the priest,” well, never mind what the priest does. The point is that when Romney put his hand on Perry’s arm it was not merely to say, “I would like you to stop talking now.” It was to say, “I am superior to you and I would like you to stop talking now.”

    • Ding! Ding!! Ding!!! We have a winner.

      Although, that would not hold up if pRick Prayerry had batted the offending hand away, gnawed it off, or even poked Mittens in the eye. Even though I abhor violence and don’t like Gov. Prayerry one bit I would have cheered him on had he done any of those things because Mittens is just so damned smug, condescending, and superior in his mannerisms.

      • Oh Gov Jeff Davis should’ve banjoed him… there’s never enough WWE on TV in my opinion…. they could’ve ripped each other’s shirts off and Batshit could’ve marched around the room with the ‘this is round x’ sign….

        …. must-see-tv that would have been.

        • It’s been a long time since I watched TV wrestling but Batscat wouldn’t qualify as anything but a mousy “manager”. Her legs ain’t long enough, her hair ain’t shiny enough, and her boobs ain’t big enough. Though I suppose they might let her participate in dwarf tossing as either the tosser or the tossee.

          And “dat”, as The Baron would say, “is all da people need ta know!”

        • TtT, I suspect “cold-cocked” as opposed to “banjoed” is more in tune with the Zoo’s standards. But I agree a scuffle between compassionate, family value conservatives would be a sight to behold.

    • It’s still better than the Lightbulb Freedom Act or whatever the Hell Crazy Shelly called it. Of course, I live a few blocks outside her District but I’m still ashamed that she’s from my home state. BTW, did I ever tell the story about the Crazy Shelly fan I met at the supermarket?

      Shortly after Bachmann introduced her bill the local supermarket had CFLs on sale for a buck a piece. I decided to stock up. When I got to the checkout the gal wrapped plastic bags around her hands before she touched the packages and gravely asked me; “don’t you know that those are dangerous”?

      I replied, “Did Shelly Bachmann tell you that?” She said; “yes”. Then I pointed at the eight foot tubes above her head and asked; “did you know that each one of those contains thousands of times as much mercury as a CFL and we’ve been safely dealing with them for more than fifty years?” He response was” but these are dangerous”.

      I let her off with a subtle shake of my head but she provided a glaring example of just how warped the Reichwhiners are.

  40. Another piece of idiocy from the debate last night: let the ‘free market’ decide who gets radioactive shit in their backyards….

    Anderson Cooper – you do know that the nuclear industry was (according to theRenewable Energy Policy Project) ,from 1947 to 1999, was subsidized $145.4 billion, wind power $1.2 billion and solar $4.4 billion.

    So if the free market would never have built the f***ing things in the first place, why trust the free market to do anything else other than f*** someone over with the waste?

    OK, look, nuclear power is a ‘fact on the ground’ as Israeli settlement builders say. As the oil and gas runs out, we will need them or it’s back to the 1800s for all of us. But seriously, there is no ‘free market’ in energy – there almost never has been. Teh stupid, it burns precious

    • Indeed. I’m reminded of the fight between the coal barons and common sense between 1890 and 1910. The big shift to petroleum was largely driven by visionaries like Winston Churchill and Teddy Roosevelt.

      Speaking of nuclear energy…

      I am not afraid of nuclear power generation but we have to modernize it. ALL commercial reactors are based on the oldest, cheapest, and most dangerous technology. Said reactors ALL depend on pressurized water or steam for cooling. These designs are the opposite of “fail safe” as we have learned with the ongoing nuclear disaster in Japan. (Oh yeah. It’s ongoing with no relief in site because we are still dealing with melted cores cooking away and they won’t be fully contained for decades.)

      The fact is that there are better, safer, reactor designs but they are more expensive. Heck! They can even use our accrued nuclear waste as fuel. Alas, we won’t see these technologies adopted until coal, oil, and natural gas become more expensive than the newer, safer, nuclear technologies.

      If you are interested and want to study some pretty complicated concepts I would suggest starting with the Wiki entry on “molten salt reactors” or “breeder reactors” or “thorium fuel cycle”. I happen to think that these technologies could produce a whole lot of energy while actually diminishing the danger of nuclear power.

  41. A free market cannot possibly exist if you base your market on an arbitrarily assigned symbolic piece of paper and you allow your freedom in the market to pollute and cause disease.

    • I’m very sorry those animals had to be killed, but can you imagine if they (the animals – lions and tigers in a pack) had come down the street in that neighborhood the following morning while kids were waiting along the street to board their school bus? I can’t imagine how horrible that could have been. Horrible.
      That is one good argument for rules and regulations. That would have prevented the needless death of all those animals. I’m sure Ron Paul would say the government had no role in that.. Natural consequences and all…

      • Indeed. I’m not faulting the officials who decided that the animals had to be contained by any means. My grief stems from the fact that the animals were ever placed in those circumstances.

        I love zoos and spent my internship working at Sea World in San Diego. I think that we need zoos for education, breeding programs, and a host of other reasons. I am utterly against allowing private citizens to acquire menageries of exotic creatures like big cats. This may be the saddest confirmation that I have ever seen for that belief.

        • I agree about private “zoos,” pete. People don’t know what the hell they’re doing, the cages are too small or inadequate, and I don’t know how the people afford to feed them properly. It just shouldn’t be allowed.

          • Not morbid, just curious and concerned. I’ve just lost enough people, close to me, through suicide that I’ve come to believe that the method doesn’t matter. I think I reached that point when a very close friend intentionally parked his car on train tracks and waited for his inevitable death. I found the wreckage and body and haven’t been quite the same since. If I had any clue that things were so bad I might have been able to prevent it.

            • Oh yikes, that’s terrible.

              I think most of us really have very little idea of what might really be going on with other people, no matter how close we are to them. They can be very good at putting on the front they think we want to see, even though they may be in agony inside.

            • I ran out of replies, Zooey.

              It has been said that “we are our brothers’ keepers” but that doesn’t apply when our brothers give up on life. I have also learned that a person committed to suicide conceals it very well. It might be the single most personal and internalized decision that a person can make with the possible exception of a woman deciding to abort a pregnancy. I honor and respect those kinds of decisions and realize that, at some point, it’s waaay outside my authority. Still, I can’t quite shake the wish that I could have helped.

            • One of the basic truths in life, which I have recently learned, is that we can’t want it more than they want it for themselves.

              I mean, we can, but it really doesn’t work at all.

    • He had gotten out of federal prison just last month after serving a year for possessing unregistered guns.

      Someone obviously cared for the animals while he was in prison.
      We’ll never know his ‘motive’ for setting the menagerie free however (as some neighbors have said) speculation would be: revenge on the town.

  42. Just a note:

    Last night was the 5th GOP ‘debate’ so far.
    Back in 1999, October 22 was the FIRST GOP debate, notable for the absence of George W. Bush.

    The GOP lineup then was John McCain and Orrin Hatch representing the establishment professional GOP,, Steve Forbes representing the establishment financiers,,Gary Bauer,representing Ronnie Reagan and lastly Alan Keyes representing the nutcases.

    Seems weird now, doesn’t it?

  43. Herman Cain is not ready for prime time and the Reichwhiners hate it because they would love to run their black guy against the black guy in the White House.

    “We’re not going to throw the people at the poverty level under the bus,” Cain told an audience at the Western Republican Leadership Conference. “No, we’re not going to do that. But we’ve already made provisions for that. But I just hadn’t told the public and my opponents about it yet. So we’re going to take care of those who are less economically advantaged.”

    Cain offered no details on how he would spare the poor from the federal sales tax. He suggested his decision to keep the exemption secret until today was a calculated strategic move.

    Is anyone else reminded of the “double secret probation” line from Animal House?

  44. I’m starting a new thread, Zooey, re: suicide and such.

    The overriding truth about mental illness is that the mentally ill have to realize there’s a problem and seek treatment. That was a little less true before Raygun made it so hard for concerned persons to impose treatment on those who need it.

    • Amen Pete. We are in the middle of this right now. You can’t do a darned thing if the person who is disturbed doesn’t know they are disturbed and continues to believe they are the only person who is right…

      • Yep. I was blessed, for lack of a better term, when I fell apart after my father’s death. I had some very good friends who directed me to the help I needed before i stuck a gun in my mouth. There used to be better mechanisms for friends like mine but our “libertarian paradise” has largely done away with them.

    • Exactly. And usually, once someone is at the point of planning suicide, they can no longer see past their pain. They can’t see any other option, and often, don’t want any other option.

      • And that’s where laws, customs, and regulations collide. We need to make it easier, not harder, for concerned people to enlist help. For many years, all it took to commit someone was the signature of three adults. Now? it takes a legal ruling by a judge who is so concerned about retaliatory action that said judge will be reluctant to make a judgement about anything but extreme cases.

        • That’s where the 72-hr hold enters – it allows for evaluations.
          It all needs to be tweaked to be more efficient and helpful. Not just a shuffling off then releasing. Actually work for a treatment plan.
          Then again, if one doesn’t or won’t or forgets to take meds…
          it’s a difficult position to be in (caring and assisting hoping to make a difference).

    • Wow. Does that bring back memories.. Years ago I used to work in an emergency room in a town in California. One Christmas morning the ambulance brought in an elderly couple, both in their 90’s, who had been in a serious car accident. We had them in the same room, with a curtain between them while we worked on each of them trying to get them stabilized. She had severe internal injuries and a crushed chest. After a short period of time, even with a lot of effort, her heart stopped. There was nothing we could do because of the severities of her injuries, her chest was crushed. He, on the other hand, had some minor head injuries, yet he also had a pacemaker that kept his heart rate steady. He was otherwise stable. He had a minor gash to his forehead and the doctor cleaned it up and was starting to suture it. I was assisting the doctor. The gentleman looked up at the doctor as he sewed and asked if his wife had died. The doctor paused and told him yes she had. He closed his eyes and as I watched the monitor, his heart rate went flat line. He just died. There was no real reason for it except his wife had left, and he was going with her. It took all our breath away. I will never forget that as long as I live. Love is a pretty powerful thing.

  45. [They are styling thanks to good folk]

    Worldwide Call For Knitters To Make Sweaters for Penguins Affected by 2011 New Zealand Oil Spill

    The sweaters prevent oil-soaked birds from preening (and poisoning) themselves, and keep them warm before and after they are cleaned by cleanup workers.

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