The Watering Hole: Dateline November 19, 1863

Abraham Lincoln Leaving after Delivering his Address at Gettysburg - The tall guy

The committee for the Consecration of the National Cemetery at Gettysburg politely invited President Lincoln to speak thusly:

It is the desire that, after the Oration, you, as Chief Executive of the nation, formally set apart these grounds to their sacred use by a few appropriate remarks.

They expected nothing more than a few stumbling words to be offered by the buffoon from Illinois. Instead, Lincoln delivered an address that is woven into our nation’s fabric. He opened with:

Four score and seven years ago our fathers brought forth, on this continent, a new nation, conceived in Liberty, and dedicated to the proposition that all men are created equal.

And ended with this phrase:

… that we here highly resolve that these dead shall not have died in vain—that this nation, under God, shall have a new birth of freedom—and that government of the people, by the people, for the people, shall not perish from the earth.

These two excerpts from his 272 word address were bookends that paraphrased the foundation, the purpose and the future hopes of a nation that at that time was in the throes of a struggle for its very existence. They also bracket the lexicon that is America. Scarcely any American child who has studied our nation’s history is allowed to forget the meaning of the entire speech, but those two phrases are burned into every child’s memory.

From the core of that address comes this:

The world will little note, nor long remember what we say here, …

Those are the only words that are remembered by present day Republicans.

This is our Open Thread. What would Lincoln think if he were brought into this time? Would he think that the men who died at Gettysburg, died in vain?

126 thoughts on “The Watering Hole: Dateline November 19, 1863

  1. Chris Hayes has retired Philadelphia Police Captain Ray Lewis, the subject of EV’s post yesterday, pictured as he was arrested in the OWS protest.

  2. James Poulos of Daily Caller on ‘Up’: “The Tea Party did not adopt mob tactics.”

    In the summer of 2009, we saw daily video of congressmen being drowned out at town halls by angry attendees working together to disrupt the meetings. When did that become anything other than mob tactics?

    • The tea party has rights whereas occupiers don’t have rights. Those are words from Al Sharpton. No truer words were ever spoken. The tea party had Koch brothers to sponsor them. It wasn’t a movement. Instead, it was a violent display of disrespect for our nation. Occupy is a movement that is in step with human development. Each generation of humans progress. For the most part, we are not like our grandparents and the milleniums are more progressive than the babyboomers. The tea party has the humans that are regressive and left behind.

  3. This SO reminds me of the sixties when anti-war protests began in earnest. Young people plus older people with a conscience gathered in ever-increasing numbers to protest the war in Vietnam even as millions gathered with and supported Dr. Martin Luther King’s movement. And all were mocked by authorities, assaulted by police IN ATTEMPT to start riots with which to incriminate not the police but the protesters. Watch Fox today and it’s almost as if they gathered their current epithets by watching old newsreels from the sixties: dirty hippies, bums, lazy, un-American, filthy, rapists, and heaven forbid, public nakedness …

    Meanwhile, the other side was true American — fighting to stop Communism (and enrich the MIC) in Vietnam, and in the South to stop desegregation, to keep the niggers at home in their place on the farm. Not even three assassinations — JFK, MLK, and RFK could settle the bums down. I remember well the riots in the streets, the cities ablaze, the Democratic Convention in Chicago, the apparently officially-sanctioned murders at Kent State, and the attendant fears for the survival of the nation itself. I also vividly recall my horror in Nov. 1968 when Richard Nixon was elected President; all who understood reality KNEW that that meant at least another four years of war in the Nam and who knows what other sorts of dark-sided chicanery.

    That was then, today is now; the motivating events might be different, but the undercurrent steerage of greed and power remains constant. And their leverage has increased to the point where the SCOTUS gave them official permission to purchase the government in its entirety, a long-coveted and intended consequence of the 1963 coup d’etat that occurred 48 years ago this coming Tuesday in Dallas, Texas. My current gravatar was originally drawn by editorial cartoonist Bill Mauldin in the immediate aftermath of that day. It’s as appropriate today as it was then.

    We managed to recover, sort of, after the Civil War, and Lincoln’s words of November 19 1863 stand as tall today as they did then. But we shouldn’t forget that one hundred years plus four days after Lincoln spoke at Gettysburg, Bill Mauldin drew a heart-rending cartoon of Lincoln, sitting in his Monument, head in hands and weeping.

    It is the same today for all of us who truly care. Ask the OWS. The beat goes on. This time the drummers are the Party of Lincoln, following orders from a pair of unscrupulous billionaires who inherited their illicit fortune from one of founders of the John Birch Society, a fortune made by that JBS founder by his selling of US petroleum technology to the hated Bolsheviks in the thirties, an American who later accused then-President Eisenhower of being a Communist.

    I probably shouldn’t even ask this, but since I don’t know the answer I do have to wonder: where was Papa Koch on Coup day, Nov. 22 1963, and what was his association, if any, with the authors of the coup?

  4. I don’t think the divisiveness of modern politics would surprise Mr. Lincoln, but I think it would break his heart to read of americans stockpiling weapons if fear of folks who think differently from themselves.

  5. Hmmm….what to say?

    More Americans have been arrested for protesting against the financial terrorists on Wall Street than there have been arrests made to those who knowingly through their greedy actions nearly brought down our economy and destroyed the lives of millions of Americans.

    Journalists being arrested and kept away from altercations between the police and the protesters. The corporate media doing their best to distort what is really happening and ignoring why we the people are angry.

    What is wrong with protesting against those who nearly destroyed this country? What the banksters and crooksters on Wall Street did to America and the world? These evil phucks are nothing but financial terrorists. What is it so hard for so many to understand this concept?

    These evil phucks raped this country and millions of its citizens through their own greed, knowing that their puppets in DC would bail them out and probably will again and again.

    They didn’t have to use bombs or bullets or fly planes into buildings, they first used their puppets in DC to change certain laws which allowed them to pull off the biggest theft ever known to mankind, we are asked to bail them out and the greed and corruption continues.

    People have finally woken up. I will credit the misguided tea party groups (those are independent and not bought and paid for) for showing the left that its time to get off our asses.

    It all started in Wisconsin, the fight for labor rights, it has snowballed into OWS. But as with the civil rights movement, womens right to vote, war protesters of the 60’s, striking miners, etc, etc…it seems when these things are deemed a threat to the power elite, where many interests and money are shared, the only solution is to use force via police, or the national guard….they must keep us controlled….More Ipads for everyone!!!

    *I know…I kind of rambled all over the place…late night last night and coffee hasn’t kicked in yet…*

    • The term police state describes a state in which the government exercises rigid and repressive controls over the social, economic and political life of the population. A police state typically exhibits elements of totalitarianism and social control, and there is usually little or no distinction between the law and the exercise of political power by the executive.
      The inhabitants of a police state experience restrictions on their mobility, and on their freedom to express or communicate political or other views, which are subject to police monitoring or enforcement. Political control may be exerted by means of a secret police force which operates outside the boundaries normally imposed by a constitutional state.[3]

      • Sadistic s.o.b’s – after the full on spraying – then arresting (without allowing the peaceful protesters to wipe their eyes).

        Then cops wonder why some citizens won’t come forward when they require witnesses to real crimes, such as drive-by shootings; murders, etc.

      • House, very impressive. The picture of the retreating cops in full riot gear, really nervous, brought tears of glee to my eyes. Thanks. I have put up a “picture of the day” post up with a photo from same situation, as I have done yesterday with Ray Lewis’ arrest. I will continue to do so on a daily basis for a while I think. There will be, alas, ample opportunity.

  6. In some circles/worlds this is exciting news – to know where they go is always a astonishing!

    A hatch year peregrine wearing a black band (A-62)was reported (to a raptor biologist in Santa Cruz) by several people, including the observer who photographed the bird in Alameda.
    It was banded in downtown Seattle on June 10, 2011

          • These are tree limbs that came down in my back yard from the heavy snow fall we had at the end of October.

            And I am being careful, thank you. Jane is home in case of emergency.

            The really heavy limbs are on the side of the house, many of them leaning on my neighbor’s fence. Parts of her fence were destroyed by them. But she was kind enough to offer to take the small cut-up pieces as firewood and said I could just throw them over to her side of the yard. Luckily, they took out part of the fence leaving a two-foot-high gap to throw them over.

            • There may be tension on the branches, they tend to snap back if there is. There are deaths from that, so please be careful.

    • You will be checking back in once the job is done, correct?
      We’ll need to know you’ve used the safety goggles and kept all fingers and toes.

        • Wayne, please check out online instructions on using chain saws or even better, if you have a friend or neighbor who has experience, take lessons. Chainsaws can attack in many predictable but unexpected ways and they are fast.

          • Thanks, Hooda. I have a friend at work who taught me some good stuff; I’ve seen another friend use a chainsaw for me; and I have the instruction book, which I am consulting.

            And, as if this writing, I am most of the way done and still have everything attached with no injuries. I am getting the hang of it, and I am planning ahead and not just cutting away willy-nilly. I am being smart about it (which is not too hard since, let’s face it, I am smart.)

            My top priority is to get it done safely, not quickly. Since my neighbor said she’ll wait until Spring to fix her fence, there’s no need for me to get it all done this minute.

            I thank you all for your concern and I promise you I will be very, very careful.

    • That’s why Greta is on Fox News – she’s not a real journalist. OTOH, maybe she doesn’t want to upset Bachmann on the one-in-a-million chance she gets the nomination so as not to screw up her buddy Palin’s chances of being the VP nominee. I mean Todd this time, not Sarah. 🙂

  7. I saw a video about Newt on Rachael’s show and was reminded of a Will Rogers quote:

    “There is something about riding down the street on a prancing horse that makes you feel like something, even when you ain’t a thing.”

  8. The dog may be wonderful prose, but only the cat is poetry.
    – French Proverb

    That goes out to two of my brothers and their families who’ve had to say goodbye to wonderful companions.

    One cat, 10 years old name Mr. Krebs as he had a cool goatee just like Maynard G.

    The other cat “PJ” – somewhere around 17 years has metastatic cancer and will have been released from the pain earlier today! The double tragedy in this house hold — “Squeakers” had bladder cancer and was put down just last month.
    (my niece, 15, has only known a household with cats – this will be especially difficult. My sister-in-law is devastated)

    • I’m so sorry to hear this. Lord knows I can empathize, after losing one loving companion to surgery and three to, well, who knows, they just disappeared. All within about 6 weeks altogether. The emptiness is still devastating. Extra petting tonight for my remaining six.

  9. After reading the post on contraceptives on TP I’ve decided that asking the Catholic Church for an opinion on sex or marriage is like;

    A) Asking a Republican for economic advice.
    B) Asking a man to describe labor and childbirth.
    C) A woman asking a blind man if what she is wearing makes her look fat.
    D) Asking someone who saw an airplane to teach you how to be a pilot.

  10. The Hell Bent for Jesus Tour


    Clown-fest continues

    Iowa Thanksgiving Family Forum today at 5pm ET

    The event takes place at the First Federated Church in Des Moines, Iowa. There will be no television broadcast since C-SPAN reversed its decision to broadcast the event citing budgetry reasons. Mitt Romney and Jon Huntsman were also invited, however, both declined the invitation.

  11. HEAR THE WORD OF THE GOD OF LOVE! (or something like that)

    Years ago I owned a bible, but one day in a fit of pique I tossed it into the trash and sent it to the landfill. No need to ask why.

    What the fuck is a professional faggot like you doing on the internet? All you talk about is how much you love Obama and want to suck his cock. Why don’t yu just marry him fag?? Then you could wait for him at home wearing a apron and high heels and with a butt plug in your ass. then when obama gets home with his giant veiny black mega-cock in hand you can suck it like a bitch and get your daily “jizz COCKtail”. Fucking faggots like you shouldn’t be allowed to talk or run a blog. Ever read the BIBLE faggot? Here fag: If a man also lie with mankind, as he lieth with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination: they shall surely be put to death; their blood shall be upon them. WELL WOULD YOU FUCKING LOOK AT THAT!!! Looks like GOD doesn’t like homos much! Do you think your better than GOD??? Faggot marriage? More like faggot prison camps with mandatory Bible-reading until they stop sucking cock and start respecting GOD and NATURE (ever see a faggot cow or a faggot sheep? thoght not. Its a womans job to “take” and a mans job to “give” if you know what I mean, so put your pants back on and man up you faggot sissy!!! Not even “science” supports faggot marriage let alone the Bible!

    • There is a guy on Twitter named Brian Anthony Bowen, who tweets under the name @TheBedkeeper (!/TheBedKeeper) who makes the argument that the Bible doesn’t actually ban homosexuality and is, actually, quote supportive of any pair of people who love each other (if I’m understanding him correctly.)

      I will say this, though. If two men can have sex facing each (just as a man and a woman do), then maybe there is something abominable going on there. I mean, somebody ain’t built right. 🙂

      IMHO, anti-gay people who obsess about what kind of sex gay people have probably don’t have much of a sex life themselves. Otherwise they really wouldn’t care at all.

      BTW, how is the guy the poster talked about going to have “gay sex” if he keeps his butt plug in? (I’ve never used one so I don’t know how they work.)

      • Actually, having the word abomination in the Bible contradicts the concept of the New Testament. It means worthy of or causing disgust or hatred. Since Jesus was all about love and forgiveness his followers are supposed to get past that icky stuff.

      • Me, I’ve never worried about what goes on in someone else’s bed. Doesn’t affect me, near as I can tell. Gay marriage? What’s the rub? Who cares? I would object if the law demanded that “I” marry a guy, but that doesn’t seem to be the case, for some reason or other.


        In more general terms, if there’s one fundamental point that seems to completely separates personal issues in the today’s right vs. today’s left scenario, it’s the concept of tolerance. The further left, the greater the tolerance; the further to the right, the less the tolerance. Interesting to watch, read, and try to understand the biblical overlay in the sense that it seems to be one of the few written documents available which ably fits the entire spectrum, including the extremes on both sides. I’d guess that in today’s Amurka, Jesus would prove himself to be a tolerant far left Progressive even as the right accused him of being funded by George Soros!

        Weird world, this one.

    • The fundigelical understanding of their religion is like the poo of a very young baby. Lacks consistency, spews uncontrollably, resembles nothing worthwhile and is disposed of by rational adults.

    • is this crap for real?????? i just went to the Kos and read that inbred sick FUX rant. . so WTF:
      GOD wrote the bible? I thought white male jews did.
      do any of us give a rats ass?

      please tell me.

      • You should see me on Sunday morning with F1 on BBC and This Week on tv. Then I’m switching to Crooks and Liars to keep up with Mugsy’s play by play of Fox News Sunday, still listening to the F1 audio.

        • So, have a busy and entertaining Sunday Morning! I’m just hunting around to find another picture of the day to post. The police in so many states are really obliging and make sure there’s plenty.

    • Aw crap. She brushed the wall and cut a tire with 14 to go. Finished 30th.
      Next year she runs the full season in Nascar.

  12. This Iowa Thanksgiving Family Forum “debate” is amazing bullshit. Not a debate, but candidates sitting around a table bashing Obama, the ACA and how how God is so huge in their lives, and generally pandering to the fundies with amazing tales of their triumphs and tragedies.

    Oh, and the Yellow Tie for Herm.

  13. Rick Perry, talking about what it takes to order troops to war, said he doesn’t think we should “let some Washington politician sitting in an air conditioned office make” the call.


    • What Newt said was worse.. When he said that we don’t care what anyone else in the world thinks, we’ll do what we want. That’s where I lost it. The crowd just roared in approval. Sick.

    • From the 1990 Supreme Court decision, Employment Division v. Smith. “To permit permit religious entities and persons to pick and choose which laws they could follow “would be to make the professed doctrines of religious belief superior to the law of the land, and in effect to permit every citizen to become a law unto himself,” ”

      They want to overthrow this precedent. Can you say Right Wing Utopia?

  14. From TPM:

    In what was a very powerful moment, Rick Santorum told the audience about not loving his disabled daughter enough because he knew she would die from birth complications.

    How is that “moving?”

  15. From TPM:
    Ron Paul: “I’m my own worst critic. I can’t stand watching myself on TV because all I see is my imperfections.”

    Finally something he and I can agree upon. That’s all I see, too.

  16. UCal-Davis Faculty Association Calls for Chancellor’s Resignation

    The DFA Board calls for the immediate resignation of Chancellor Katehi. The Chancellor’s authorization of the use of police force to suppress the protests by students and community members speaking out on behalf of our university and public higher education generally represents a gross failure of leadership.

    Apparently spraying pepper spray onto passive students as nonchalantly as you would use a paint sprayer is unacceptable to the thinking adults at this university! Good for them!

    • The flagrant arrogance of the m.f. cop can not be made to go away – no matter how hard and long the police chief tries to say the cops felt threatened. There a too many angles that show this cop has a sadistic streak. He goes and then down the line.

      Chancellor is a farce – feigned surprised the cop acted as he did.

      • My kn eejerk reaction is against the Chancellor, which frankly does not speak all that well for me. But the likelihood is that this Chancellor is like ours here at SIUC, a business-person who thinks a university is a corporation, students customers, knowledge a product, and everyone else either an employee or altogether otiose.

        I get so used to having my worst expectations fulfilled here that I forget to look for the rare occasion when they are not. And yet, what are the odds my expectations will be unfulfilled here?

        • She came to Davis in 2009 from your neck of the university world!

          Chancellor Linda P.B. Katehi

          Previous employment
          University of Illinois, Urbana-Champaign, Ill. (2006-2009): provost and vice chancellor for academic affairs; professor in the Department of Electrical and Computer Engineering and the Program of Gender and Women Studies.

  17. Hey zoobies… zoosters…. zoetropes and what have you ( zoogotes?)

    Apropos of OWS….

    Thus far I’ve been unable to meaningfully support OWS by actually joining them but I have contributed as best I could—helping set up an encampment in Journal Square, donating $10, giving then a hand crank radio that can also charge cell phones, providing a “space-blanket” and keeping them company for a few days during the course of which I got to know quite a few of them as a result of which I can speak of the OWS ‘demographic’ which is that it is not a bunch of lazy clueless unemployed hippies but a considerable cross-section of American society–men and women from their early twenties up to their sixties (and as we’ve seen even older people have joined the movement).

    I met a young man with a degree in engineering and a $50K college debt who couldn’t find a job and was thus now studying for his master’s degree just so he could defer his student loan payments–a tactic which will of course put him in further debt, which he well-knows.
    I met a physically frail but still spirited woman who had marched with Martin Luther King and had protested the Vietnam war.
    I met a quite rotund 40-ish woman with a variety of health issues who nonetheless was prepared to camp-out.
    There was a young-ish well-educated Hispanic who had a job, a mid-40s female postal worker (still working), a working mother, a local Indian ( Desi) businessman who was financially self-sufficient but who also an advocate and helper of the local homeless even before OWS, an Asian college graduate, a ridiculously demure female beauty whose ‘rightful’ place ought to have been at some ‘cotillion’ instead of mucking-in with some radical hippies–and, it has to be said, in the minority a couple of people who were a bit strange and/or with self-centered agendas.
    In short the 15-or so-OWS participants that I met over a few days certainly represented the polyglot majority of American society; old, middle-aged, young, students, employed, retired, unemployed, white, brown, male, female, natural-born, immigrant, single, married, divorced, childless or parent.

    So, anyway, the Occupy Journal Square offshoot of OWS has after two weeks effort. disbanded, —a fact which doesn’t imply a lack of fortitude or or an inability to organize as OWS critics have claimed, but because the site was proving to not be worth the effort.

    So that’s, that, but wait there’s more….and it’s IRONIC…and you all will have to read on in my follow up comment which will appear shortly……



  18. Sooooo…..OWS….

    The ONLY work I have been able to find in the last 12 months has only appeared in the last TWO months, and that work is being distributed to me, piecemeal between two companies.

    Without giving too much away, one of these jobs (very weirdly and IRONICALLY) allows me to be privy to some of the corporate and Wall Street world-view,

    Remember how the financial media went on and on about how “uncertainty” was preventing the financial industry and large corporations from growing and hiring?

    From my newly acquired insider perspective over the past two months I can tell you that,neither Wall Street financiers nor industrial strategists have had ANY “uncertainty” about their present and future prospects for sustainable and improved profit.

    Contrary to the claims of their GOP puppets who persist in blaming Obama for the present economic slump, of the now dozens of mineral, manufacturing, logistical, technological, retail, and service industry representatives that I have heard speak regarding their own business economics and the national economy EVERY single one has been clear that their sspecific economic difficulties, and the reduction in the general US economy began in the late summer of 2008—NOT when Obama took office.

    Furthermore, not ONE of these corporate representatives has expressed ANY dismay as to their future prospects and thus the prospects for their investors. Every one of them sees opportunity and increased growth for their respective businesses and markets.

    In this strange job I have, I don;t usually get to parse much information, but this week I heard someone talk about “headcount”–specifically how the company had recently reduced their “head count” by about 7,500, which would have the affect of ensuring a specific and desirable return for investors.

    “Head count” is of course a substitute phrase for employees–or in this case, suddenly former-employees. The good news was of course that the reduction in “head count” helped bolster the investors’ return, ensuring a robust X cents per-share profit; never mind that each individual “head count” actual represented a family without a bread -inner, and never mind the concomitant loss of expertise.

    Employees are ‘beans’ to be counted, consumed or discarded according to .the needs of investors (which include the upper echelon management who depend on stock-market.ROI performance to ‘earn’ yet more multiple millions of tax protected dollars).

    As to the future, which for millions of formerly working Americans is indeed uncertain, as is the future off many who still have a job to cling to for the moment, every upper-echelon corporate manager is and I quote “excited”–without fail–about their corporations’ and their investors’ prospects until 2016.

    As for the 99%, or even the 50%, are they also exited about the present and near future? Hell no!

    But they are just beans, so fuck’em.


    . ….

    • It’s just a great deal easier to eff with people’s lives if you don’t actually think of them as human. Game pieces – pawns – never give a thought to anything beside the bottom line.

  19. I listened to a representative of an energy (oil and gas) company based in….Midland, Texas ( Dubya’s home turf) who blithely talked about the production efficacy of ‘fracking’ and his company’s cost-effective pumping of already used ( i.e. highly toxic) fracking fluid from one gas-filed to the next. for re-use ( without any cleaning process in-between) .
    This person also proudly described the company’s hedging strategy of buying ‘call’ and ‘put’ options on the energy commodity market so that whatever the world market did, they’d profit from a general increase or decrease either way, regardless of their own productivity or reduction thereof. ( in other words, the energy company just as much in the business of speculating as it was in extracting energy resources).
    He gleefully described how this strategy worked out so well when oil hit $140 a barrel, and then sadly opined that he doubted that oil prices would hit such a level again.

  20. Anyway, that’s my two cents for tonight, I’m off to bed.

    Sorry i haven’t been as regular a contributer as i used to be–I just don’t seem to have the time I once had.

    Best to all, ad see you tomorrow,.

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