The Watering Hole: Tuesday November, 22 – We Decide

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Ht: Shayne via twitter @Zoocritter

My first reaction: I’d not buy from him until…well, hell freezes over.

We can influence what happens, we are not powerless. We still have our purchasing power. Not that there is very much left of it, we can still decide what we buy and who we buy from. Do we really want to give our money to corporations who lay off workers while still making huge, even record profits? I don’t. We can read the economy pages of our local newspapers and find out who’s hiring, who’s firing and whenever given the choice, we can support hiring businesses. We can reconsider our needs. Shutting down the TV set brings us a huge step nearer to that. Just let’s tune out the constant brainwash and reassess our needs. We can make Black Friday a huge failure for the retail corporations! By just staying at home. They’ll say that’ll cost more jobs! But remember, they are firing for profit anyway and they have done so for a very long time.

This is our open thread- Open Up!

312 thoughts on “The Watering Hole: Tuesday November, 22 – We Decide”

  1. Yes, I’m certain that the Obama administration has made life nigh impossible for….Crane companies? Odious regulations that cranes must be safe to operate, not kill people operating them! OMG! What a bucking furden…
    Yes, we can vote with our wallets. Buy local and homemade. Wuck Falmart, Target and the big boxes. China doesn’t need any more of our currency, they’ve got plenty.

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  2. Mittens is running the first ad of the season and it’s a really good indication that he’s as crazy and deceitful as any of them. He pulled the old “let’s condemn the candidate for quoting us but attribute the quote to him” trick. Here are the bullet points.

    The 60-second Romney ad quoted Obama as saying, “If we keep talking about the economy, we’re going to lose.”

    The full Obama quote, included in a Romney press release as part of an Oct. 16, 2008 speech at a Londonderry, N.H., campaign stop, was this: “Senator McCain’s campaign actually said, and I quote, ‘If we keep talking about the economy, we’re going to lose.'”

    http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/11/21/obama-campaign-romney-tv-ad_n_1106832.html

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    • My thought is that Obama needs to talk about the economy and lay the responsibility for it squarely on the shoulders of the immovable Republicans that won’t do a damn for anyone except the non-existent “job creators.”

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    • frugal, I was just thinking about that. Sad day. I was in study hall at my high school, had just started my freshman year two months earlier…

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      • I remember it like yesterday. My biochemistry class ended at 11:30 (AZ time) and I walked to my car in the adjacent parking lot. Got in, started up, headed home. Before I got out of the parking lot, the radio station interrupted its broadcast with this: “We interrupt this program to bring you a news bulletin from Dallas, Texas. President Kennedy has been shot. Stay tuned for further details as they become available.” By the time I got into my apartment and the radio turned on, he was dead.

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      • Hate was ever a powerful motivator and if you feel like many share the hate, you may think your actions justified. So this was a very interesting analogy Frank Rich made here. In 1963, however, the US was shock shelled by the assassination. I am not sure about what the reactions would be today. Limbaugh? Beck? Coulter? Palin? Look what they said when Gabby Giffords was shot.

        Btw, the comments section of the article eerily confirms Rich’s statements and the commenters don’t even realize it. Spooky really.

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    • That was journalism. We, the public, were kept apprised. Stunned we couldn’t seem to get enough news.
      Having moved, about a year ago, the box holding the newspapers about the assassination was still among my possession.
      I stopped long enough to peruse, recall and recall the utter sadness of the nation.
      I was in grammar school – our ‘music class’ consisted of listening to a classical radio station for one half hour— just so happened that day was 22 Nov. We were stunned to hear the news.
      School was dismissed soon afterwards – home we went glued to the b/w in the family room or listening with Mum to the radio in the kitchen.

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    • Thank you for finding and posting this – journalism was revered.
      Can you imagine if FauzNews were around then – with their nastiness?

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  5. Here’s hoping the American Voting Public can put it’s ballot where its polling numbers are
    CNN/ORC Poll. Nov. 18-20, 2011. N=1,019 adults nationwide. Margin of error ± 3.

    Date / Should / Should not / Unsure
    “Increases in taxes on businesses and higher-income Americans”
    11/18-20 /11 / 67 / 32 / 1
    8/5-7/11 / 63 / 36 / 1

    “Major cuts in spending on domestic government programs”
    11/18-20 /11 / 60 / 39 / 2
    8/5-7/11 / 57 / 40 / 3

    “Major changes to the Social Security and Medicare systems”
    11/18-20/11 / 41 / 57 / 2
    8/5-7/11 / 35 / 64 / 1

    “Major cuts in military spending”
    11/18-20/11 / 40 / 60 / 1
    8/5-7/11 / 47 / 53 / 0

    “Increases in taxes on middle class and lower-income Americans”
    11/18-20/11 / 12 / 88 / 0
    8/5-7/11 / 12 / 87 / 0

    So we want the wealthiest and the corporations to pay their fair share, don’t want more taxes on the middle class, and want to cut domestic spending, but not so much the military.
    Looks like the stalemate in Congress will only be resolved by putting one party or the other in total control. Let’s hope it’s not the Repubicons.

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    • Great take on the presidential strategy at work to isolate the Repubicons and show them to the nation for the slavering toadies to the 1% that they really are.
      Now, we just have to elect a Democratic House and Senate (61 may be out of reach..) to get the nation moving again. With a new Senate majority leader who’ll have the guts to gut the fillibuster rules that cause the tyranny of the minority to prevail, we can move forward to repairing the nation.

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  7. Alabama’s latest “illegal” gets arrested as a non-American for not carrying a driver’s license, as required under the new anti-illegal immigration law. He’s also part of a company, Mercedes-Benz, that has brought a great deal of jobs and wealth to the state:

    “Tuscaloosa Police Chief Steven Anderson told The Associated Press an officer stopped a rental vehicle for not having a tag Wednesday night and asked the driver for his license. The man only had a German identification card, so he was arrested and taken to police headquarters, Anderson said.

    The 46-year-old executive was charged with violating the immigration law for not having proper identification, but he was released after an associate retrieved his passport, visa and German driver’s license from the hotel where he was staying, Anderson said.”

    Hey Alabama, terrify all your unskilled workers away, then humiliate all your foreign investors. How’s that anti-illegal immigration law working out for ya?

    http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/stories/U/US_ALABAMA_IMMIGRATION_LAW_MERCEDES?SITE=AP&SECTION=HOME&TEMPLATE=DEFAULT&CTIME=2011-11-18-20-16-23

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  9. Fox News On UC Davis Pepper Spraying: ‘It’s A Food Product, Essentially’

    “Pepper spray, that just burns your eyes, right?” O’Reilly asked Kelly.

    “Right,” Kelly said. “I mean, its like a derivative of actual pepper. It’s a food product, essentially.”

    … O’Reilly said. “We don’t have the right to Monday morning quarterback the police,” he said. “Especially at a place like UC Davis, which is a fairly liberal campus.”

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  10. Tell ya what, Megyn. Why don’t you make some nice chili. Chop up 3 or 4 habeneros, Make sure you work all the seeds out with your dainty fingers. And then chop up a nice big Vidalia onion.

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  12. [this is about the use of iodine to purify water for travelers/hikers]

    Federal agents say 88-year-old Saratoga man’s invention is being used by meth labs…

    For Wallace to comply, the state Department of Justice fingerprinted the couple and told Wallace he needed to show them such things as a solid security system for his product. Wallace sent a photograph of Buddy sitting on the front porch.
    “These guys don’t go for my humor,” Wallace said. “Cops are the most humorless knotheads on the planet.” Even so, Marco Campagna, Wallace’s lawyer, promised to strengthen security and make other improvements to allay the government’s concerns.

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  13. Alan Grayson spoke before the Florida DemProgressiveCaucus recently:

    Alan began by talking about the Republican presidential candidates. Here is some of what he said:

    Sarah Palin: “I was disappointed that Sarah Palin was not running. But I understood why. She realized that she count not fit the Oath of Office on her palm.”

    Mitt Romney: “There’s somebody who spends all day trying to figure out whether he should flip or flop.”

    Herman Cain: “I hope he gets the nomination because clearly, if both parties nominate African-Americans, every racist in this country will have to commit suicide. . . . What is his business genius? That he paid people $8 an hour to deliver $15 pizzas.”

    Rick Perry: “Rick Perry tried to pick a fist fight with Ron Paul on national TV. A 76-year-old man. He doesn’t want to just cut Social Security. He wants to beat up everyone on Social Security.”

    Newt Gingrich: “Somebody said to me recently, ‘I actually listened to Newt Gingrich, and he sounded really crazy to me.’ I said, ‘Look, Newt Gingrich has been listening to Newt Gingrich for 68 years. If you listened to Newt Gingrich for 68 years, wouldn’t you be crazy?’”

    Ron Paul: “I’m going to disregard Ron Paul, because everyone else does.”

    Michele Bachmann: “I’m not going to say anything about her, because we actually have an agreement between ourselves. The agreement is that if I don’t tell the truth about her, she won’t lie about me.”

    What They Have in Common: “Their favorite TV show is ‘Father Knows Best.’ . . . And to show how ‘groovy’ and ‘with it’ they are, their favorite song is Jefferson Airplane’s ‘Don’t You Need Somebody to Hate.’”

    And this: “Last time, the [Republican] nominee was named McCain. Now the person who is leading in their race is named Cain. You have to consider the possibility that it’s because of the name.

    “You have to consider that possibility. It might just be the name.

    “And what is that story? I mean, think about it. Why would they be so attracted to somebody named Cain? As I recall the story, he killed his brother with the jawbone of a donkey, which probably meant he wanted to blame it on the Democrats.

    “And then when God said, ‘Where’s your brother?’, Cain said, ‘Am I my brother’s keeper?’ As if he had no idea.

    “And that is actually the fundamental question that separates us from them, right? Am I my brother’s keeper? Our answer is, ‘Yes, we are.’ We are.”

    Wish there were more people like Mr. Grayson.

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  15. Carlsberg has made a commercial where they filled a movie theater with a bunch of thuggish looking people with only two empty seats. Then they sent couples in and filmed their reaction.

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  16. For those who may have missed it…

    Mittens has started airing the first attack ad of the season. As we should all expect by now, the kindest word that could be used to describe said ad is “deceitful”. I really don’t know how or why people can pull these tricks but, in my case, I have a conscience.

    The 60-second Romney ad quoted Obama as saying, “If we keep talking about the economy, we’re going to lose.”

    The full Obama quote, included in a Romney press release as part of an Oct. 16, 2008 speech at a Londonderry, N.H., campaign stop, was this: “Senator McCain’s campaign actually said, and I quote, ‘If we keep talking about the economy, we’re going to lose.'”

    http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/11/21/obama-campaign-romney-tv-ad_n_1106832.html

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  17. I posed a question rather late last evening. Remember the “Oath Keepers”? They are a group of alleged current and former soldiers and cops who swore that they would never obey an order to attack the teabaggers. And yet? I haven’t heard of any “Oath Keeper” condemning the police assaults on peaceful protestors. Shouldn’t they be out there standing between the cops and their victims? I guess that they have to amend their oath to only cover old, white, teabaggers.

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  20. This just in from Fox News. Emails from the nebulous leaders of the OWS movement indicate an escalation of action in the near future. Fox News has heard some people say they are supposed to rely more heavily on Mexican food, particularly refried beans made by illegal immigrants to establish a means to combat pepper spray. Rumor also has it that George Soros will be providing coupons to assist in this insidious retaliation. More news at 5.

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    • I think they are just playing games with the Republican field. I mean they stood up Herman ‘Caligula’s Horse’ Cain by simply manipulating the media to talk about him. Likewise they are keeping Ron Paul out of the discussion. They are simply spending money here and there to manipulate the race whichever way in a given week. they must be laughing their asses off.

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  24. The rise and fall of GOP candidates in one easy graph. Are we going to run a pool on how long it will take for Newt to suffer the inevitable collapse once the “librul media” starts covering him? Considering that the shut down for the holiday might queer results; I’ll say that he will start dropping Tues. the 30th. This will allow for everyone to remember what he has done in the past.

    http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/11/22/newt-gingrich-polls-lead-experience-knowledge_n_1108422.html

    (NOTE: Guesses must be registered before the commencement of tonight’s “debate”. if previous debates are any indication, it’s entirely possible that he will start his fall tonight but I have to give the old goat credit for, mostly, staying above the fray.)

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    • Gotta wonder if one of the more religiously bent candidates will associate Newt with the word ‘fornicate’ before the debate is over tonight…>>?

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    • I’d say December 10th, 3 days after Newt declares that Roosevelt started WWII to impose his socialist agenda on this nation of rubes and dupes.

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    • Newty has astonishingly high disapproval numbers, for good reason. Any voter not blinded by: a. at least he’s a conservative; b. at least he’s not a Mormon; and c. at least he’s not colored will be creeped out by him if they haven’t already been so. Gingrich is a completely unlikable individual.

      It wasn’t all that long ago that he couldn’t really be bothered to run for President — whoops, need a vacation! — was deep in debt and abandoned by his staffers. And now he’s somehow in the lead? WTF?

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      • Goering would have been proud of FAUX “News”.

        Naturally, the common people don’t want war; neither in Russia nor in England nor in America, nor for that matter in Germany. That is understood. But, after all, it is the leaders of the country who determine the policy and it is always a simple matter to drag the people along, whether it is a democracy or a fascist dictatorship or a Parliament or a Communist dictatorship. …voice or no voice, the people can always be brought to the bidding of the leaders. That is easy. All you have to do is to tell them they are being attacked, and denounce the pacifists for lack of patriotism and exposing the country to danger. It works the same way in any country.

        — Hermann Goering

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    • “The same day, advice animal image macros featuring various photos of Megyn Kelly captioned with dismissive statements about violent acts were posted to Reddit.[30]”:

      “Bamboo under fingernails? It’s a manicure, essentially.”
      “Rape? It’s surprise sex, essentially.”
      “Auschwitz? It’s a summer camp, essentially”

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    • I’m not torn a bit. I’ve followed Batscat’s career, in horror, since she was a State Senator hiding in bushes to spy on a gay rights event. She deserves to have scorn heaped upon her until she crumbles under the weight and then be buried under even more scorn. I think the band should have continued with the song until she slunk off the stage in shame.

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  28. More crazy lady:

    Bachmann says she and her husband Marcus have “raised” 23 foster children – all girls – in addition to their biological children. Bachmann usually took the children in when they were teenagers, and has not named them out of concern for their privacy.

    All girls, hmm? I wonder why.

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    • Duh! She doesn’t trust the Fabulous Marcus around boys. I also seem to recall that none of the 23 alleged foster children were in her home for more than a year and some were only there for less than a month. They, essentially, operated an outpatient boarding house for girls being treated for eating disorders and were paid, by the evil government, for their service.

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  29. I heard a funny on the radio.

    FAUX”News” is just like the twilight films. They both feature attractive women living in a fantasy world that’s being threatened by hairy foreigners. And? both have one black guy.

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  32. A shot every time Newt Gingrich uses a variation of the following words:

    total/totally

    profound/profoundly

    frank/frankly

    utter/utterly

    complete/completely

    You’ll be soused after his second answer.

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    • I’m completely and utterly drunk already and frankly I am totally sure that I will not be profoundly changed by the GOP fake debate tonight.

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  33. Dang, my computer doesn’t like CNN – it loaded and I saw three introductions and now it’s loading again.

    I noted CrazyShelie: hair down and no pearls.

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  52. A trade zone will cure Pakistan of its historic suspicion of India? That’s Rick Perry for ya. Go back to west Texas, ya dolt.

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  55. They let Fred Kagan ask a question??? Now if I had any doubts about CNN, they are all gone now. I know exactly where they are leaning.
    Fred Kagan is a member of AEI, he (and his father and brother) were signatories to the “Project for the New American Century” manifesto titled Rebuilding America’s Defenses (2000), and he authored the “real Iraq Study Group” report as the AEI’s rival to the ISG report of James Baker and Lee H. Hamilton in December 2006, he won the ear of GW Bush, and he was one of the “intellectual architects” of the surge plan in Iraq under GW Bush.
    He reportedly influenced Gates’ decision to support sending 30,000 additional troops to Afghanistan. He has also been at the lead for beating the drum to go after Iran. He and a number of others who co-wrote the article I linked to who were members of the “”Project for the New American Century”. They are the top neocons..
    They are responsible for taking this country down a rabbit hole..
    And CNN lets HIM ask a question? This is a joke.

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  68. With all their Muslim bashing, and suggesting that we should ‘profile’ MUslims, like they are the ONLY people who are the terrorists, do they not realize that there are 5 MILLION Muslims living in the US – who are all American citizens and love this country too? What the hell are they thinking?
    Someone recently did a listing of all the terrorist actions in this country over recent history, and only a few of them were committed by Muslims. It was a long list. Yet, the press zeros in on the Muslim stories. It is so dangerous.
    I didn’t hear anyone speak of the terrorists who bomb womens’ health clinics, or walk up to doctors in their place of worship and shoot them dead..
    This latest story in NY of the “Muslim terrorist” wannabe was basically mentally disturbed. He wasn’t capable of doing anything. It was why the feds didn’t do anything with it. This story was purely for political purposes.

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    • They also don’t mention the 30 odd “isolated incidents” of Christian American terrorists who have either struck or been caught since President Obama was elected. If they want to use troops to make us safe i would suggest that they send a squad to the homes of your average member of Free Republic and similar communities.

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  73. The only people on that stage that even come close to making any sense are Jon Huntsman and Ron Paul. The others are just ridiculous. I hope the people in that audience didn’t have to pay an entrance fee to get in there.. Sheesh.
    Our country is in serious, deep doo-doo if one of these bozo’s makes it to Washington.

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    • His arrogance and level of believed self-importance just knows no bounds.. The arrogance alone takes my breath away. I have to step out of the room till he’s done talking.

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  77. Who’s going to put up the money to put those oil fields into production, Newt? Historically, the oil companies have waited for the government to cover the up front costs. That’s why they are sitting on millions of acres of leases and have thousands of capped wells in U.S. territory.

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    • I should also add that we need future reserves. Once the cheap, easy, oil from overseas is gone we will need those reserves. what these freaks want is for us to use our reserves before taking measures to conserve them. Madness!

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  80. I wonder if anyone will bring in the fact that catching OBL happened on this president’s watch.. (That president they keep referring to as a failure as Commander in Chief)..
    WOW.. Perry is calling for Leon Panetta to resign?? Why??

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  90. The majority of this panel opposes any defense cuts, would end the healthcare cost-controls in the ACA, will not budge an inch on tax increases, and yet wants to balance the budget soon. Seriously.

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  91. Silly question, but just WHY do they sing the national anthem before every debate? Do the Democrats do that? Is that supposed to symbolize that the Republicans are the REAL patriots..? I almost lost my cookies when they started singing again.
    And one more thought from earlier in this debate.. Someone started talking about profiling Muslims, that they wouldn’t need to question “Christians” standing in line so that people could move through airports faster. Really?? REALLY?? Will Christians start carrying I.D. cards? Will Muslims start having to wear bands on their arms? Any of this ringing any bells?

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    • These “debates” would be a lot better if the moderators, who aren’t idiots, would simply say “that’s not true” when the candidates predicate their entire answer on a lie.

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      • I found this video a while back that puts Wolf Blitzer in perspective – with his own words:

        I have no problem with people who are Jewish. I have a lot of friends who are Jewish. I have friends who represent many different faiths.
        But, I DO have a LOT of problem with the politics of the Israeli government, their policies, and their influence on a global scale.

        Hello. Wolf has an agenda, a definite slant. No wonder this debate is in sync with The Heritage Foundation and the AEI. I guess I won’t be getting any more news from CNN.

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  101. If Man-dog Boy says “shining city on the hill” again I might do something desperate. Even if we reclaimed any ownership of that name it was pissed away the moment the first bomb fell in Iraq.

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  118. I just keep bursting into laughter every time they say this president is a failure with international issues/national security. They only wish they could have his successes..

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    • We were having something of an American century, back when even Republicans valued education, science, and technological progress. Those Repubs are dead, retired, or in hiding.

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      • Here you go.

        Naturally, the common people don’t want war; neither in Russia nor in England nor in America, nor for that matter in Germany. That is understood. But, after all, it is the leaders of the country who determine the policy and it is always a simple matter to drag the people along, whether it is a democracy or a fascist dictatorship or a Parliament or a Communist dictatorship. …voice or no voice, the people can always be brought to the bidding of the leaders. That is easy. All you have to do is to tell them they are being attacked, and denounce the pacifists for lack of patriotism and exposing the country to danger. It works the same way in any country.

        – Hermann Goering

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  124. We’re getting a good idea of what would occur under these various potential presidents. Under Romney, Santorum, Bachmann and Perry, a complete return to Bush-Cheney with a mindset created by the Cold War.

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    • The last 60 years of American history are about telling people to be afraid of something to distract from the stealing, lying and cheating going on behind their backs…

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  136. Oh crap! I forgot.

    We had to shut down our community BBQs due to weather and some resistance from the property managers but we are going to put on a turkey dinner, with all the fixings, for the kids on Saturday. The “fixings” will include turkey fajitas and a big bucket of Angelina’s divine tamales.

    G;night, g’night, again and again.

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  137. I find it baffling that sensible people like y’all can stand to watch these carnie freak shows. If these really are the End Times, then all those creatures on stage are merely personifications of Beelzebub, and if you squint just right you can see the clouds of flies emerge in a fetid stream whenever one of them speaks.

    I’m going back to the TiVo. ‘night!

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  138. [my suggestion to the Repugnant Party: a super huge map of the world projected on to the wall]

    From the 19 Oct. ’11 clown-fest:

    Bachmann shows her geographical brillance:

    “The president, he put us in Libya. He is now putting us in Africa. We already were stretched too thin, and he put our special operations forces in Africa.”

    —

    From Sanitorium, this evening circus upon the stage:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ve0Jjr9EC0Q&feature=youtu.be

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  139. I don’t know how anyone can watch the debates – they only offer a statement on the total failure of the American education system since I went through school. Jon Huntsman was the only one on that stage who verged on the inner boundary of sanity on that stage tonight (Zoo time.)

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    • Knowing that whatever comes out of their mouths is pure rubbish and doomed to failure if ever enacted is quite entertaining. Yes, it’s frightening anyone would actually vote for any of the clown-fest participants.

      As you pointed out – the failure of the education system: Cain must have just learned Iran has mountains and needs to spread that little geographical tid-bit. He may want to study The Kush – guess what “Herb”, the U.S is already occupying/fighting/losing in a mountainous country.
      Bachmann & Santorum seem to think Africa is a country.

      It would be exceedingly ‘bad for business’ if any of those on stage were to end up in the White House.

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