The Watering Hole, Thursday, December 22nd: How ‘Bout If We DON’T Bomb Iran

From John McCain’s “Bomb, bomb Iran” (literal) song-and-dance in the 2008 Presidential campaign, through all but one of the current survivors of the Republican Presidential candidates’ gauntlet of debates, Republicans seem to feel that the ultimate answer to any question about Iran is “regime change.” Of course! Look at how well that…er, uh…worked…for us…sigh.

This near-solidarity amongst Republicans begs a couple of questions:

1. Are they crazy?
2. Do they remember anything about Iraq?
3. Are they just trying to demonstrate their ‘testicular fortitude”? Or, in Michele Bachmann’s case, ‘Thatchers’?
4. Are they more afraid of what Iran might do if it acquires a nuke, or of what Israel might do if Iran acquires a nuke?
5. Are they trying to tie up the Jewish vote well in advance?
6. Are they crazy?

As always, Ron Paul is the exception to the “regime change” rule, ergo the war-happy wing of the Republicans cannot back him. The rest of the candidates vary somewhat in their eagerness to resort to what should be the last resort, but they are united in their opposition to Ron Paul’s more isolationist views.

For a more tempered point of view, I found that one or two articles from Foreign Policy magazine served to talk me down for now, at least…but I’m sure that it’s only a temporary surcease from the bombardment of all-too-familiar, “deja-vu-all-over-again” arguments for “regime change” (and all that that implies) in Iran.

I’m as tired of the candidates’ posturing about Iran as I am of the candidates and the endless ‘debates.’

So, on a lighter note, here’s an odd story from one of our local online news headlines. I found the first sentence in the last paragraph hilarious.

This is our daily Open Thread. Join us and discuss..

183 thoughts on “The Watering Hole, Thursday, December 22nd: How ‘Bout If We DON’T Bomb Iran

  1. I would venture that a “well regulated militia” found the sign a threat and found it “necessary to the security of a free state” to take it out. The window was collateral damage.

  2. It would be fascinating, in a very grotesque way, to hear the justifications from Israel about how to keep a Holocaust from happening they had to visit one on Iran. Or how invading Iran, much as Germany invaded Poland, somehow protects them from the very persecution they fear yet are willing to use on a daily basis. Their Right Wing has truly become as deluded as the maniacs they decry.

  3. We can’t take on Iran. It’s mountainous. Herman KochCain is the only GOoPer that knows the futility of mountainous invasions.

    Speaking of mountainous, a foot of snow fell here last night and it’s supposed to snow most of the day today. Me and my shovel carved a path to the street so Debbie can walk to work … no way to get the old van out of the garage, much less go anywhere even if I COULD get it out. So, I’ll be shoveling most of the day, off and on, based on the premise that it’s a lot easier to move snow several times when it’s two inches deep than it is to move it once when it’s a foot deep. I’ll probably stream-in episodes of Hawaii Five-O between shovelings just to remind me that there’s another world out there. Somewhere.

  4. As to the bedroom window shot it could well have been a warning. “We know what you are doing in there and you better knock it off right now! Signed, The God Squad.”

    • I never thought that God was particlarly concerned with what you do in the bedroom… only the Republicans (oh, and Rick Santorum)

  5. Considering that the inevitable power play is now starting up in Iraq, we would be well advised to keep our noses out of the Middle East. We should have expected that the day after our troops left the arrest warrants for political opponents of the Shiite regime would be tacked up.
    This is all, and I mean ALL on the Bush/Cheney cabal.
    It will take months, not years for the next Iraqi dictatorship to emerge.

  6. Went out for a Solstice Sushi dinner with my youngest last night. They had a vegetarian roll with tempura fried sweet potato for filling. Yum.

  7. QOTD:

    “She lectures us on eating right while she has a large posterior herself.” — Rep. Jim Sensenbrenner (R-ump fetish) questioning Michelle Obama’s body shape.

  8. Herr Boner is in the shitter.
    He has no control over his minions, in that if he allows the Senate bill to come up for a vote, it passes, with only the baggeridiots willing to vote no.
    So he just passes (as in gas) and pontificates, and will now feel the brunt of the blame and perdition in the 2012 election cycle as the one who ‘raised taxes’ on the middle class…
    He’s still playing checkers or tiddlywinks, whilst the president just moved him into checkmate.

  9. Rudepundit on the car bombings in Baghdad

    “When we in this nation think about the cost of the war, when we think about what we actually did to that country, when we think about what we’ve done to ourselves, when we think of all the people who got away with this crime, when we hear politicians who supported the thing in the first place now say, “If we knew then what we know now,” we should curl into a fetal ball and ask for this to be lobotomized from our national conscience. But we should be told that it can’t be cut out or erased. And the other worst part is that not only are we damned to remember, we are damned to arrogantly ignore it and move on.”

    • Rummy:

      And it is not knowable if force will be used, but if it is to be used, it is not knowable how long that conflict would last. It could last, you know, six days, six weeks. I doubt six months.

      TownHall Meeting At Aviano Air Base in Italy, February 7, 2003

      I don’t believe anyone that I know in the administration ever said that Iraq had nuclear weapons.

      At a hearing of the Senate’s appropriations subcommittee on defense, May 14, 2003

      • I saw some rumour somewhere that Condi is being considered a 2016 prospect.

        The worst NSA and SoS in living memory. A failure: failed to do anything to stop 9-11 and then failed to stop the War Pigs and ably abetted the lies in the 2003 SOTU.

        Followed all of that up with a filibusting lie session in front of the 9-11 committee.

        You’re not fit to be president of a kindergarten classroom, Condi – just f*** off OK?

        • That might actually be kinda cool. Too bad she isn’t gay. A gay, black female running as a Republican would probably cause the entire Right Wing to collapse from heart attacks or exploding heads.

        • True. I can’t help but cheer for a woman appointed to such a high office to succeed. What a great big f’ing disappointment Condi was.

    • My cat does the same thing to my mouth when I snore. But? She has claws so, sometimes, it draws blood. i also wonder if this cat is merely checking to see if the baby is ripe enough to eat. They are, after all, carnivores.

    • Isn’t it time for the lawsuits to begin? I know that there are a whole lot of lawyers who are eager to take a crack at the thugs. Every individual cop should be sued by those he arrested (Has anyone else noticed that there don’t seem to be any female cops in the videos of unprovoked attacks?) while the mayors, judges, and officials giving the orders should be dealt with as a class action.

  10. sampling the Reich-wing blogs, it looks like they have moved on to discussing choices for VP with Chris Christie getting a lot of attention. Is it possible that there just isn’t anything they can say about the POTUS candidates (see “clowns”) that paints them in a good light?

      • Actually, I let the lefty blogs sort through the crap for the interesting tidbits then I might follow a link or two. If I had to wade through all of said crap? i would probably throw myself in front of a bus.

  11. Check out your favorite websites, but it appears the Teathugs have caved, and are extending the payroll tax passed by the Senate.

  12. My made up quote of the day:

    Historically, Democratic Congresses have worked with Republican presidents for the good of the country. Republican Congresses have defied Democratic presidents for the good of their party.

  13. Headlines I would have loved to have seen:

    Backed into a corner, Boehner wets his pants…
    or
    After Sen Reid agrees to negotiate year long tax bill, Boner blusters, sobs…

  14. Interesting little side note about this cave in, and the details that are yet to be fleshed out. Small details in the original Senate bill will be changed, requiring this bill must now go back to the senate for unanimous consent , then back the house, and then to the president. Who wants to bet that Boner will want all of this to take place in the next two days, screwing up all xmas plans. Such a sad little boy.

  15. Holy crap!

    There’s a new Christmas song that seems to be a call for a boycott of any business that doesn’t scream Merry Christmas at every opportunity. some of the comments are hilarious, in a disturbing way.

    • Humorous open letter from the gay community to Amy Koch (who recently resigned as the majority leader in the Minnesota Senate due to having an extra marital affair):

      Dear Ms. Koch,

      On behalf of all gays and lesbians living in Minnesota, I would like to wholeheartedly apologize for our community’s successful efforts to threaten your traditional marriage. We are ashamed of ourselves for causing you to have what the media refers to as an “illicit affair” with your staffer, and we also extend our deepest apologies to him and to his wife. These recent events have made it quite clear that our gay and lesbian tactics have gone too far, affecting even the most respectful of our society.

      Forgive us. As you know, we are not church-going people, so we are unable to fully appreciate that “gay marriage” is incompatible with Christian values, despite the fact that those values carry a biblical tradition of adultery such as yours. We applaud you for keeping that tradition going.

      Thank you.
      John Medeiros
      Minneapolis MN

      It’s a hoot.

  16. So I wonder how Perry’s idea would work. He wants to drug test everyone who gets federal aid.

    Most, if not all, of us get federal aid, but in not so obvious ways. For example, I drive to work on an expressway that received federal dollars for construction. Would we set up toll booths, where instead of tossing a quarter, you urinate into the tube. If you’re clean, you get to go on to the next one.

    If you’re a passenger, you must also pass a drug test, as the air traffic control system is funded by the feds. Of course, with everything else they do for you to fly, would anyone notice?

    And don’t any of you dare take advantage of any of the science that the space program has brought to us; what with it’s federal dollars.

    Of course, we all still enjoy our (sort of) freedom thanks to that publicly funded military that keeps us safe.

    And of course, everything in Washington DC was built with federal money, so everyone there (and yes that includes all the lobbyists, politicians, and foreign dignitaries) would have to be drug tested around he clock, for doing something as minor as walking on the federally funded sidewalk.

      • Oh, that raises an interesting dilemma Pete. Once you’ve been drug tested, which is also federally funded, you’d have to be drug tested for being drug tested. It’s a never-ending cycle.

        So essentially what Perry and Gingrich are proposing would bankrupt the country!

      • Taxes! Raising! NoNoNO…You see, the person getting the aid would have to fund their own tests, especially is they have no health insurance.
        Please, these are Republicans touting this plan!

    • “Would we set up toll booths, where instead of tossing a quarter, you urinate into the tube. If you’re clean, you get to go on to the next one.”

      But, but, think of the JOBS that would create! Millions of urine samples to be collected, transported! a truly pissy economy!

  17. Perry … “wants to drug test everyone who gets federal aid.”

    I’d settle for mandatory IQ testing for everyone running for public office with the proviso that in order to run every candidate’s IQ has to be 90 or more. Doing so would surely eliminate the Republican party.

    • Perry … β€œwants to drug test everyone who gets federal aid.”

      Well, then, since corporations are people, then all CEOs, CFOs, board members of all corporations that receive subsidies from the government need to be tested as well. And all of the contractors in Iraq and Afghanistan and all other becky becky beckystans….

    • I love wrapping gifts, but I’ve been recycling gift bags for a few years. Easy peasy!

      Not a problem this year, since I haven’t purchased a single gift!

  18. Ok, you culinary marvels… I couldn’t find racoon in the grocery case or out and around town, so I settled for Duck for Christmas Dinner. Anyone have any suggestions for cooking up this bird? I’ve never cooked duck before, but it was sitting next to the cornish game hens and I bought it on a whim.

    Anyone have a good recipe?

    • I’ll back up Zooey on the grease control…
      Other than that, any recipe with oranges, slivered almonds and cardamon sounds good to me.

        • It’s a spice not all that common any more, but you can find it if you look, in a health foods store at last resort. Swedes like it, that’s why I know.
          Turks too, they put it in their coffee.

            • Hard to describe, it’s very unique. It has a mint/nut/evergreen taste.
              As if that makes any sense.
              A food co-op or health foods store might have it in bulk or as a sample where you could smell it.
              Happily there is a company (Zenners) here in Oregon that makes the traditional Swedish potato sausage (korv), it’s pretty good, but it lacks CARDAMON!
              Turkish coffee is thick, black, and has lots of cardamon in it.

            • OK, I’ll check it out. Thanks for the suggestion. I think I know someplace that I can look for it.

      • Any kind of crust composed of nuts, like walnuts and/or almonds would be delightful.
        If you’re going totally native, stuff it with acorns and squash…
        Serve wearing a loincloth.
        πŸ˜‰

    • As far as I’m concerned, no one understands how to cook a duck better than the Chinese, but it’s a lot of work.Cook’s Illustrated adapted the basic Chinese approach and start by steaming the duck in the oven, then removing it and cutting it into basic pieces and finishing the roasting at a high temperature.

      It’s a fairly time-consuming bird.

      • That the only place that I remember eating duck… in a Chinese restaurant and it was very good. I don’t think that I have the chops to do that, but the package directions just read like roasting a turkey…

    • I can help. I’m doing duck too. In fact; I’ve cooked ducks, domestic or wild harvested, since I was in middle school; a long, long time ago. The main thing about duck, IMO, is that it needs to be roasted on a rack so it doesn’t stew in it’s fat which can make it pretty strong tasting. It really needs to be rendered out a bit depending on taste. Many recipes replace the fat with milder liquids from bacon fat (one just covers a, well perforated, roasted duck with strips of bacon and broils it until the bacon is nearly crisp). I don’t much care for a classical stuffing either. The dish that I’m making Sunday uses just about half a sliced apple as the “stuffing” and I discard it after about the first half hour. Rather than giving unsolicited recipes I’ll just hit my favorite methods rather than individual recipes because it varies by taste. So…

      I always roast duck for some or all of its cooking time. I prefer them whole but I like a stronger taste. For the mildest (read less greasy) recipes I split them in half. I ALWAYS roast duck on a rack but some recipes finish the roasted duck in a sauce or with other ingredients.

      Now that you have your roast duck, whole or halves, done or nearly done it is again a matter of taste.

      I’m afraid I’m distracted at the moment but I’ve given you a start and I’ll be able to be more help when I have more time and you can give me a hint of what result you would like. Moist or crisp? Whole or halved? Roasted for their whole cooking time or finished with other ingredients?

      I’ll get back to you.

      • Take your time, I am multitasking myself.

        Probably a moister bird… Other than that I don’t really have a clue. I am also serving some ham (as per request), so if I totally mess it up, there is no real worries, but I would like it to be fully cooked, no sense going to the ER for food poisoning if we don’t have to. (I’m not too scared of messing it up, but I don’t really want to hover over the darn thing the whole time either.)

        I usually roast my turkeys with oranges, celery, carrots and onions in the cavity and cook any stuffing outside the bird.

        I probably need to keep it a little simple since it will be my first time… If the family likes it, maybe I’ll try it again another time.

        Anything special that you serve with it?

  19. Reading up on roasting the duck, you are so smart! Very fatty, but piercing the skin before cooking seems to be a must and even pre-melting the fat…

    interesting reading…

  20. Sorry to just jump in here and talk about my own thing, but it tickles me that my “born again” family members simply have absolutely no clue how to respond to this post on FB:

    As promised, a repeat as we approach the celebration of the birth of the human world’s ultimate radical:

  21. Cardamom: try Frys in Phoenix, they always had it when I lived there. We can get it here in Colorado at the local Kroger, which in Phx is Frys.

    Roast duck: always use a rack. Pierce the skin all over with a serving fork, then roast for the first half hour at 400 — that should render lots of the fat. Reduce heat to 365 or so for another 45 minutes, max. Uncovered.

    We also used to do duck in a Dutch oven over and under hot coals on desert campouts. Can’t control the temp with much precision, but we always made it work. Always stuffed them with wild rice as well — made it with cooked wild rice, pork sausage, chopped onions, fresh mushrooms (sliced), and celery. Never comes out greasy if you roast as above because the fat renders through the pierced skin (double the coals for the first half hour).

  22. Hope our fundies are too damn busy fighting the war of christmas to interpret gawd’s word on why ..

    Christchurch rocked by earthquakes

    A series of earthquakes have terrified many already-frazzled Christchurch residents this afternoon, starting with a 5.8 magnitude tremor at 1.58pm. It was followed by a 6.0 magnitude aftershock at 3.18pm, centred 10km east…

  23. Read where Gingrinch wants to drug-test all recipients of federal aid.

    Am waiting to find out how they will get a Corporation to pee in a cup.

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