The Watering Hole: Saturday June 9th, 2012 – Valid, But To What Point?

While tweeting the other day, I came across this tweet from someone pretending to be a fictional character, but unlikely to be the person whom we identify as the fictional character, but it would be cool if it were:

Later, in response to his later tweet, I wanted to look up the definition of the word, “valid:”

valยทidโ€‚ โ€‚[val-id] adjective
1. sound; just; well-founded: a valid reason.
2. producing the desired result; effective: a valid antidote for gloom.
3. having force, weight, or cogency; authoritative.
4. legally sound, effective, or binding; having legal force: a valid contract.
5. Logic . (of an argument) so constructed that if the premises are jointly asserted, the conclusion cannot be denied without contradiction.

So, in relation to the 5th definition, I replied with this tweet:

I believe that this is the fundamental problem between the prevailing views of the Right and Left: We disagree on the premises we can jointly assert, so it is impossible to reach a conclusion that cannot be denied without contradiction. We don’t agree on how to define the problem we want to solve, so we can’t expect to reach an agreed upon solution. We have facts on our side. The other side, through a judicious redefinition of the word “fact” claim the same thing about their views. Except that their “facts” tend to be based on a conviction that whatever certain people, or groups of people, assert is, by definition, non-factual. A vast majority of climate scientists (defined, as if it matters to them, as professional scientists working in the field of studying the Climate) tell us that the average temperature around our globe has been rising, and at a faster rate than it did historically, when humans weren’t around polluting the atmosphere. We believe them. Everything they say makes perfect sense, and who am I to argue? But the deniers say that this is nothing but a “hoax,” designed, apparently, to make us waste a lot of time and money (meaning “profits to corporations”) to fight a problem that doesn’t exist, and if it did exist, that there wouldn’t be any way to stop it, so we might as well try to find a way to make money off it. Okay, I probably made that last part up. but it sure makes a lot of sense, doesn’t it? So much so, that I think I’m going to decide it reaches my criteria to be called a fact. ๐Ÿ™‚

This is our daily open thread — share your facts!


86 thoughts on “The Watering Hole: Saturday June 9th, 2012 – Valid, But To What Point?

  1. I’ve been seeing a commenter for years using the screenname ‘Janeane, the Ascerbic Goblin’, who I wouldn’t be surprised to learn is really Janeane Garofalo, the actress.

  2. My most basic view of the difference between liberals and conservatives is, while both sides agree that there are people in the world who truly need and deserve help (that liberals believe only the government can be counted on to give, because the churches too often give coercive help), liberals are willing to have a system that prevents all from falling through the cracks, at the expense of having some people game the system who don’t deserve help, and conservatives don’t want a system that helps those who need it, because they can’t stand the thought that anybody would get anything at all who didn’t deserve it. The systems we have require enforcement to limit the fraud, which the conservatives also consider a bureaucracy and thus, a waste. The fight over these principles is where the arguments of validity of ideas come into play.

    Gone to the shop again.

    • House,

      When it comes to government, again the Left and the Right cannot jointly agree on their premises because we disagree on what the role of government should be.

      • Government should have but two functions: to repel invaders from without, and to quash rebellion from within.

        /debbilz advokate

    • I agree. I have so often observed this very fact. Conservatives can’t stand the fact that someone might be getting something that they didn’t earn…. that is until that particular conservative develops a necessity for that particular safety net.

      The contradiction comes when the conservatives fail to apply the same logic to, say, corporations that may be feeding at the public trough at the expense of the taxpayers.

    • My daughter will be sending my grandson to Catholic school this fall. He starts Kindergarten and the Catholic school offers full day which is not offered by the public school. My grandson can opt out of religion class. He will not be helped by vouchers. The students for the charter school are picked by random number and if he got chosen, it would require a long bus ride for him.

    • Hmmmm… a religious corporation, exempt from paying any taxes on its income, receiving taxpayer subsidies. Sounds like a familiar theme…

    • “Beware of all enterprises which require new clothes.”
      Henry David Thoreau

    • When I saw your retweet I tried to find a little more about the exchange but nothing yet. Awesome is definitely the word. Pigs like Loesch need to be slapped down more often.

  3. “When I was in the military they gave me a medal for killing two men and a discharge for loving one.”

    That’s on the headstone of

    Sgt. Leonard Matlovich
    Matlovich was a highly decorated soldier and was the first to go before the Supreme Court challenging the military’s exclusion of gays and lesbians. He was featured prominently in Time magazine in the 1980’s during this case. He died of AIDS in the late 1980’s.
    On September 8, 1975, Latter-day Saint Air Force Sgt. Leonard P. Matlovich Jr. appeared on the cover of Time magazine, declaring “I am a Homosexual” to the nation…

    An interesting article that also relays how the LDS (Mormons) took to this.

  4. Once a year my kids’ former high school publishes a really nice magazine. Nice photography, classy layout, articles on things like a young women’s conference held at the school, global learning outreach, many art, athletic and science accolades, alumni profiles and “goodbyes and hellos” which has birth and death announcements.

    And there on page 39, at the bottom of the middle column on the page is a small high school photo headshot of him and next to the photo:

    Andrew Breitbart ’87

    I didn’t realize he went to my kids’ school.

  5. Somebody suggested that I might want to follow john Fugelsang. I said I already do.

    The next thing I know, I get a notification that John Fugelsang is now following me on Twitter. So I got that going for me. Which is nice.

        • I just spent some time reading your tweets. I’m now on the edge of the twitterverse. I mentioned a couple of your tweets to my wife and she rolled her eyes and said ‘I’m sticking to the news paper”!

          I am watching the Mets-Yankees as well. At least until the Kings-Devils game starts up. My Jays lost to those annoying tomahawk chop people again!

        • John Fugelsang is one of the few comedians who Tweets funny stuff. Most of them only tell you where they’re appearing and are too stingy with their jokes. I don’t think he follows me back though.

  6. In Memoriam: Ray Bradbury

    Talk about giants…

    In November, 1971, the Mariner 9 space orbiter was about to make history. It was rapidly approaching Mars, making it the first spacecraft to orbit another planet. … Just days before the Mariner 9 reached Mars, two of our greatest sci-fi writers, the dearly departed Ray Bradbury and Arthur C. Clarke, shared the stage with two eminent scientists, Carl Sagan and Bruce Murray, at a symposium held at Caltech. At one point, Bradbury captivated the audience when he read his poem, โ€œIf Only We Had Taller Been,โ€ and gave an almost spiritual inflection to the Mariner 9 mission, reminding us of something that Neil deGrasse Tyson once said: the line separating religious epiphany and feelings created by space exploration is awfully, awfully thin.

    • Krugman is the best surrogate the Obama has out there besides Clinton. Too bad Obama doesn’t take more advise from Krugman.

  7. <——– My Honeybump, before her eyes got cloudy.

    Just downloaded pictures off of my mom's old camera.

    • Awww…

      I always wanted a dog when I was young, but my parents never got us one. They gave me a parakeet for my birthday when I was about 12, but it wasn’t until, I think, my junior year in high school that I snuck a cat home that I got from a classmate.

      Kinda odd, I met Wayne’s family’s collies l when I was young, but didn’t meet Wayne until 2 decades later.

      • Wayne must have been hard to train and the family kept him on a short leash, as it were!

      • I knew this picture was on my mom’s camera, and I finally had a chance to get to it when my dad left for CA. She’s such a sweet dog, and I’m going to miss her when she’s gone.

        I’ve had both cats and dogs over my lifetime, and I think I prefer dogs, but cats are awfully nice too. I just like to keep them indoors, because my last outdoor cat brought me a baby owl — doing what comes naturally, but that broke my heart.

        Funny how life makes circles sometimes, huh?

  8. Writing about gravatars, Pachy that appears to be an ‘up close and personal’ look at a dragonfly.
    Is it?
    I love the look!

    • Cecile knows Mittens and his kind – good for her calling him out!

      I volunteer for PP quite frequently. Used to be a clinic escort. Recently helping with mailings; phone banking; contacting elected officials, etc.
      Just last week helped move one of the satellite offices – a few doors down in the same complex.
      The e-mail never states where the assistance is needed – until you go to a secure web site. Safety is of the utmost importance.

      The day we moved the office there were half a dozen people, who hadn’t known about the relocation, looking for services — that’s how important/vital PP is to the community. We’re fortunate living in a large city there are a few satellite offices in which patients can be seen.

      • I’m glad that PP takes such pains to ensure the safety of it’s volunteers and workers. It’s a pity it has to be that way.

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