The Watering Hole, Thursday, 8/2/2012: AMORALITY

I couldn’t quite decide which characteristic (for lack of a better word, as it implies “character”) of Mitt Romney’s is the most offensive; but taken together, I finally realized that they all add up to (or boil down to) one word:


When the word ‘amoral’ came to me, I turned to bing(TM) and asked for ‘signs of amoral behavior’ – most of the sites that came up referred to “Antisocial Personality Disorder.” Wiki provided the outline of behavior traits which point to a diagnosis of Antisocial Personality Disorder:

“Antisocial personality disorder (ASPD) is described by the American Psychiatric Association’s Diagnostic and Statistical Manual, fourth edition (DSM-IV-TR), as an Axis II personality disorder characterized by “…a pervasive pattern of disregard for, and violation of, the rights of others that begins in childhood or early adolescence and continues into adulthood.”

It is characterized by at least 3 of the following:
– Callous unconcern for the feelings of others.
– Gross and persistent attitude of irresponsibility and disregard for social norms, rules, and obligations.
– Incapacity to maintain enduring relationships, though having no difficulty in establishing them.
– Very low tolerance to frustration and a low threshold for discharge of aggression, including violence.
– Incapacity to experience guilt or to profit from experience, particularly punishment.
– Markedly prone to blame others or to offer plausible rationalizations for the behavior that has brought the person into conflict with society.”

I think that we can safely and honestly say that “at least 3” of those traits are displayed by Mitt Romney. Next…

“The Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders, fourth edition (DSM IV-TR), defines antisocial personality disorder (in Axis II Cluster B) as:
A) There is a pervasive pattern of disregard for and violation of the rights of others occurring since age 15 years, as indicated by three or more of the following:
– failure to conform to social norms with respect to lawful behaviors as indicated by repeatedly performing acts
that are grounds for arrest;
– deception, as indicated by repeatedly lying, use of aliases, or conning others for personal profit or pleasure;
– impulsiveness or failure to plan ahead;
– irritability and aggressiveness, as indicated by repeated physical fights or assaults;
– reckless disregard for safety of self or others;
– consistent irresponsibility, as indicated by repeated failure to sustain consistent work behavior or honor financial obligations;
– lack of remorse, as indicated by being indifferent to or rationalizing having hurt, mistreated, or stolen from another”

Okay, I’m pretty sure that ‘three or more’ on this list are applicable; with probably some ‘partials’ among the others.

Now, I had already been speculating that a person who exhibited these traits, who did not have the kind of background and wealth of a Mitt Romney, would likely turn to a life of crime. The next bit confirms this indirectly:

“Psychopathy and sociopathy:
“Although there are behavioral similarities, ASPD and psychopathy are not synonymous. A diagnosis of ASPD using the DSM criteria is based on behavioral patterns, whereas psychopathy measurements also include more indirect personality characteristics. The diagnosis of antisocial personality disorder covers two to three times as many prisoners as are rated as psychopaths.

That’s right, PRISONERS.

One final thought: Try reviewing the above, substituting George W. Bush instead for Mitt Romney. It’s pretty obvious that, despite his slick exterior and veneer of sophistication, Mitt Romney is essentially George W. Bush without the accent.

This is our daily open thread — talk amongst yourselves!


169 thoughts on “The Watering Hole, Thursday, 8/2/2012: AMORALITY

  1. Interesting that Barack Obama doesn’t fit the profile(s) at all, that even with his flaws and shortcomings he’s roughly the opposite of those totally ‘amoral’ assholes such as Bush and Romney. How is it, then, that Bush got more than fifty votes in each of his runs for the presidency, and that it’s even possible Mitt Romney will get more than fifty votes? What’s that say about the US voting population? The US ‘culture’ in general? Not a hell of a lot that’s very good, that’s for sure.

    • People felt that they could have a beer with Bush and they feel that they can have a beer with Obama. Romney doesn’t stir those kind of feelings in people.

      • I suppose we could all posthumously convert some Holocaust Jews to Mormonism together …. that…. might be fun ….. er don’t knock it until you’ve …. er tried it?

  2. Irony on parade or a double dip of Dookie.

    I realize that he just may be the stupidest face at FAUX”News” but really: simple projection is sooo transparent to sane people that the implication about him and his audience is too apparent to require further elaboration.

    • I guess no one has caught on yet. The pro-equality folks boycott Chick-Fil-A. The good fundies rush to support the bigoted owner by consuming large quantities of greasy chicken of dubious origin, thereby shortening their own lives. It’s diabolical.

      • I was thinking along the same lines. I boycotted Chick-Fil-A years ago when I learned about the factory chickens that they use. My second reason to avoid Chick-Fil-A is that the food is full of fat, sugar, salt and MSG which are all unhealthy. As for the bigotry of the owner, to hell with him. I can choose where I spend my money and when possible, I spend my money at places that have good politics.

        August 1 is our anniversary and I will NOT allow it to be known as the “Day to celebrate biogtry” or the “Day when Americans lost their Religious Freedoms”. It is the day that nonewhere and cats made a commitment to each other.

  3. I think most corporations also show at least 3 of the above traits too, Jane

  4. Joe Klein slams Mitt for his smug ignorance of the Palestinians:

    “It’s important to distinguish Palestinian political culture from its business and professional culture.

    Indeed, Palestinians are widely known, and often disliked, by their Arab brethren for their entrepreneurial ability–as well as for the disproportionate number of professionals, especially doctors and lawyers, in their ranks. Palestinians, including Yasser Arafat’s father, owned the construction companies that built the Gulf States. They dominate the business class in Jordan. And there is good cultural reason for that: Like the Jews, the Palestinians have been a displaced people. Business and, especially, professional skills are portable. They don’t depend so much on land as farming and ranching does.”

    Just for kicks, Jared Diamond sticks the boot in:

    • Actually, it’s true that the Palestinians are a displaced people. We had a conversation with a man from Lebanon last night and he has a very interesting perspective on the Middle East. I’ll post the conversation on next Tuesday’s Open Thread. I don’t have time to tell you more because I must leave for my dental appointment. Ouch!

    • “What does Willard read?”

      Umm, what does RUC read? That’s what’s in my post just above yours.


    • Are there Mormon versions of those old Bible Classic comics that used to be in my dentist’s office back in the 60’s?

    • Mittens is smugly assured that he can’t lose any votes no matter what he says. If not? He wouldn’t claim to have read Diamond’s book. Prof. Diamond utterly rejects the notion that a given society can dominate another because of any inherent superiority or divine providence. Needless to say; that’s not a popular view among Reichwhiners.

  5. Ezra Klein sums up the entire GOP policy approach in one paragraph:

    “The reason Romney’s plan doesn’t work is very simple. The size of the tax cut he’s proposing for the rich is larger than all of the tax expenditures that go to the rich put together. As such, it is mathematically impossible for him to keep his promise to make sure the top one percent keeps paying the same or more.”

    Facts (and math) have a librul bias.

  6. Jennifer Rubin continues her careening path to the right but she got one thing right. The coverage of Mittens is a disgrace to the 4th estate. It’s disgraceful because they are afraid to tell the simple truth that he is in no way qualified to be president. The world media had him pegged the second they took a look at him. Funny. They did the same with with Dubbya, even going so far as to downgrade our credit rating the moment he was selected, and the “librul media” swept it under the rug. They are doing the same thing again and the potential harm might be even greater.

      • Not to mention millions, hundreds of millions of dollars from corporate bastards corrupting our political process & democratic institutions.

  7. QOTD:

    “Aly Raisman gave us the greatest display of Jewish-American gymnastics since Kerri Strug,” – David Brooks.


    • I demand equal time for Uzbekistanian Americans! And Catholic Americans, And Non-native Americans!

  8. Quite possibly the most disgraceful exploitation of a child you’ve ever seen that doesn’t involve actual physical abuse:

    • Under his 1st grade school picture it says: “Most likely to die during an armed standoff with law enforcement”. Still; at least he’s about the same emotional age as most parents who would even consider doing such a thing. Does anyone else guess that his father is a preacher of some sort?

    • I feel sorry for that child. He has to live with ignorant parents. Hope that he meets some intelligent people in his life so that he can have a real mentor and not have to follow the lead of a couple of dumbf**ks.

    • I’m a small business owner. I am not being over-taxed, over-regulated, and personally denigrated. I just need more customers. With just a little more demand I would have to hire someone to help me, at least part time. If Mitt allows middle class taxes to increase to protect and/or enhance tax breaks for the wealthy, it would probably reduce my sales. The average guy with $20 less to spend a week is likely to skip flowers and pork chops.

      • Thank you for stating that you are a small business owner.
        I despise the term self employed.
        I have noticed a difference in the way people treat me from when I used to tell them I was self employed compared to when I tell them I am a small business owner.
        Once I was telling someone that I was self employed and they said, “what does that mean, you’re a pimp?”
        That was my turning point on verbage.
        If you were within driving distance, I swear I’d be buying pork chops.
        Now you have me thinking about stuffed pork chops.
        Or some carnitas…

    • WillardRat’s plan translated:
      Increase access to domestic energy resources

      • Streamline permitting for exploration and
      development – give huge tax breaks to giant multinational energy companies and they might hire a few ‘small people”

      • Eliminate regulations destroying the coal industry
      -especially those poor damn mining companies who disregard those pesky safety regulations and kill their employees due to their negligence.

      • Approve the Keystone XL pipeline – that’ll bring tens of jobs to middle Amerika, but mostly to Canadians.

      WillardRat, you suck.

  9. Does anyone think the drought stricken ranchers and farmers of the midwest are likely to turn down federal aid in the name of self-sufficiency, or that Eric Cantor et al will insist that spending on such aid be offset by budget cuts as was done for those towns who suffered the awful tornadoes?

    • Until and unless those farmers gather in their churches and town halls to denounce the GOoPers; Cantor will do exactly that. Even then it might not have any effect. The old analogy of the horse with the bit in its teeth is an apt description of the mad Reichwhiners. And the black guy in the White House will probably prevent any mass revolt against those who are doing their all to cause a big enough crisis that the Dems will be blamed for the indefinite future.

  10. Ann Romney’s horse fails to win dressage but avoids offending British

    Rafalca, owned by Mrs Mitt Romney, was impeccably behaved and well received by Olympic equestrians in Greenwich

    Never for a second during her seven-minute performance did a hoof stray dangerously mouthwards, nor did she do anything at all to offend or upset the host nation. From the moment she entered the Greenwich Park equestrian arena at 12.15 on Thursday afternoon, the most famous political horse since Caligula toyed with making a consul of Incitatus seemed in her element.

    • Congratulations. Husband and I will have been married 32 years in January. Isn’t it a great thing to find your soul mate?

        • Wow!
          I do think you, Cats, and I could have picked better months to marry. August and January?

          • There’s “better” months to get married? What’s wrong with those two? Besides, my anniversary is 7 days after my birthday.

            • I guess I’m being provincial. In VA August is really, really hot and January is often really cold. I’d have picked October or April, instead we married 4 days after husband was divorced. I didn’t want to wait as I was tired of explaining to stepson’s school who Miss Outstanding was.

        • Have a happy 34 year celebration to you and the Mrs. As Outstanding has stated, it is great to be able to find one’s soulmate. It took me two tries. I got lucky on number two. It’s not always easy. It’s about the love and all that love encompasses.

      • I would have been married 35 years this year, and I’m SO happy it didn’t last. 🙂

        I’m glad y’all have found such great happiness!!

  11. Mittens finally did something good. He forced Chuck Grassley and a couple other GOoPers from Iowa to say something that makes sense. It won’t last long and Mittens will just claim he’s always been in favor of subsidizing wind power, then he’ll reverse himself on that, but I do like to give credit where it’s due.

    NOTE: I’m also confident that Grassley will still vote against any environmental or energy bill sponsored by Dems but I’ll still enjoy it.

  12. I Googled “Mitt Romney is the devil and got 3.3 million hits (in less than half a second, amazing!). I haven’t looked at any of the pages or videos yet and perhaps never will
    because I have my own theory:

    Mitt Romney is really Iblis, the Islamic Devil whose main characteristics include hubris. I can imagine that Romney, a Bishop in the Mormon cult, had a hand in starting the practice of Baptizing dead people, Jews in particular. Can’t you see the evil genius in this theory? Willard is really an Islamic Devil. Unfortunately for Mittens, (From Wiki) “The primary characteristic of the Devil, besides hubris, is that he has no power other than the power to cast evil suggestions into the heart of men, women, and jinn.” and “Muslims traditionally derived the name from the Arabic verbal root balasa بَلَسَ, meaning “he despaired”; therefore, the meaning of ʾIblīs would be “he/it that causes despair”. Do you think over the years in his role as owner of Bain that he may have brought despair into peoples lives?

    Now let me step over to this whiteboard and show you the evidence that points to the possibility that in addition to Harry Reid’s ironclad proof that Mitt’s unseen tax return’s would show there were years Mitt paid zero taxes, zip, nada, rein, in addition to that, now hold on to your seats, in addition to having paid no taxes some years there was one year he paid a negative rate, meaning he got money from us, you and me, the overworked, under paid and unappreciated backbone of this great nation…..

    Now if you’ll excuse me I’m going to finish off this joint I’ve been toking on. 🙂

    • It comes as no surprise that most of them can’t even spell “Chick-fil-A”. What’s that term I’m looking for?

      Brutally stupid.

    • Why is it so damn difficult for the haters/bigots/idiots to learn the difference between your and you’re? Never mind…


      Boycott of #ChickFilA by homosexuals will make the restaurant even more attractive!
      Nobody sneezin HIV on the wings (a silly little smiley thing-a-ma-bob)

      Considering HIV isn’t an airborne threat not to worry; however, this person should worry about the hygiene of the workers…hand washing is the law that isn’t always followed!

    • Can’t find any fault there.
      Real horsemanship is a screaming aborigine clad in a loin cloth with (her) knees clamped around a galloping steed, putting a ton of dust in the air and heading straight towards me…

        • Likely a lot closer to the original Olympics.
          Q: What do you think the ancient Greeks would have thought of dressage?
          A: Eat the sissy horse and, um, well, uh…. ride the rider.

  13. I haven’t the desire to look it up and compile the data, but the net worth of the US basketball team must be not too distant from the GDP of Nigeria!

    • I’m certain the GDP of Nigeria does not include the oil and mineral wealth siphoned off by multi-nationals.
      If it did, and the citizens of Nigeria shared in that wealth, then they might have a kick ass basketball team.

      • There’s a fair bit siphoned off by Nigeria’s super class I’m sure.

        If only they got sponsored by The Grateful Dead.

  14. Oh dear! I haven’t checked out the Raptards in some time but this thread is remarkable. Some poor fool tried to inject a little sanity and the responses are priceless. I only read the first and last page but I’m fairly certain the ones in the middle are just more of the same. The moderator even changed the title of the thread because the OP said they “hate” Obama. Frankly, I’m surprised the original poster wasn’t banned and the thread removed. I guess they just can’t resist an opportunity to spew their bile about Obama.

    On a related note:

    “How can you tell you’ve been born again? Everything you say sounds like you are screaming the fluid out of your lungs while hanging from your ankles!

    • “How can you tell you’ve been born again?”
      Very funny pete… that one will be remembered and tossed out at an opportune moment…

    • How can you tell you’ve been born again? Everything you say sounds like you are screaming the fluid out of your lungs while hanging from your ankles!

      You sound like Bobcat Goldthwait? (Turns out there is no “e” after all. Silly me.)

      P.S. My spell checker did not recognize “Goldthwait” as a correctly spelled name, and suggested that perhaps I meant to type “Goldwater.”

      This is why I will never use a device that uses autocorrect. 🙂

    • Love for your fellow man = Unchristian
      Guns, torture, and financial shenanigans aimed at defrauding honest working people = Christian
      How sad.

      • Sad indeed. At least they represent the narrow rim of a fringe element. Actually, the hatred for “libruls” is refreshing compared to the threads where they try and outdo each other wishing for the end of the earth and their glee at the prospect of anyone the least bit unlike them suffering in Hell.

    • Comments in our local newspaper on the joy of standing up for the right to dislike folks for who they are make me want to vomit nearly as much as my one and only Chick-Fil-A sandwich did.
      Also, these folks don’t seem to understand that boycotting the business of someone who uses his right to free speech to spread ideas one finds abhorrent is just another form of free speech.
      They also call a short circuit a “shortage”, which drives me crazy, but that’s a different topic altogether.

    • On a more serious note: Wouldn’t it be wonderful if American journalists actually follow the example of their European brethren? And I don’t mean bloggers and the good people at MSNBC and Current. I want to see this reported on the major networks’ evening news.

    • A “B” in biology? The fundies aren’t going to like that. Mittens will have to admit that he either believes in evolution or LIED to get a grade.

      • I believe his Church, shall we say, “allows some leeway” when to comes to lying to advance oneself. That may or may not be related to the character of the founder of said Church. I could only speculate about that.

        I think it’s bad.

      • pete,

        Mitt shows originality and imagination. He has had some
        trouble with Genetics.

        That may tell us he hasn’t truly grasped the concept!

    • Mitt is doing well. He is a more responsible citizen this year.

      Of course you realize the RWNJs will now shout that Obama must release his University transcripts as if that would equate to this high school nonsense.

  15. (an endearing face on that Otter)

    “Super Mom” Sea Otter, Joy, Dies

    The Aquarium is sad to announce the death of Joy, its “Super Mom” who raised a record number of stranded sea otter pups, many of which were returned to the wild, where they’re raising pups of their own.

    …Joy was always willing to play with her exhibit mates as well as toys, which endeared her to Aquarium guests. As with all exhibit animals raised here, her name comes from John Steinbeck’s writings – in her case, a character from In Dubious Battle.

    • a very wise face…
      My eldest loved otters, I had to swim with him clinging to me for years.

  16. Gosh, if only there were something could show us that would PROVE Harry Reid is a liar.

    Romney: Reid’s claim about unpaid taxes ‘untrue’ – Yahoo! News

    WASHINGTON (AP) — Put up or shut up, says Mitt Romney. Just sayin’, retorts Harry Reid. For both men, it’s a taxing situation.Romney demanded Thursday that the Democratic Senate leader back up the story he’s been passing around this week that an investor with Romney’s old firm, Bain Capital, has told him that Romney didn’t pay any taxes for 10 years.

      • As I see it, there are only a few possibilities as to why Romney won’t release his tax returns.

        1 – He didn’t pay any taxes during some of those years (as Reid asserts).
        2 – He’s done something illegal on his taxes during some of those years
        3 – He’s ashamed of being rich
        4 – He’s got vast sums parked offshore and this would be politically embarrassing
        5 – It shows that he’s been lying about his involvement in Bain
        6 – He’s an ass

        I’d say it’s some combination of the above (except for maybe #3)

  17. July Jobs Report: 163,000 new jobs added, and unemployment up .1 to 8.3%.

    You see, when there is hiring taking place, long-term unemployed people apply for those jobs, and get counted as ‘actively seeking work’ again, which can increase the unemployed number slightly. Only two more monthly reports before election day.

    • I thought you’d been here long enough to know you should never express impatience with late open threads. Especially when it’s Zooey’s day to post. 😀

  18. Some ominous news about Super PACs:

    “Three-quarters of Americans have either heard “a little” (36 percent) or “nothing at all” (39 percent) about “increased spending in this year’s presidential election by outside groups not associated with the candidates or campaigns.” In an even more stunning finding, when prompted with four choices as to what a super PAC actually was, just four in 10 said it was “a group able to accept unlimited political donations” — the right answer. Forty-six percent had no opinion or didn’t know what a super PAC was, while 9 percent said it was a name for the congressional committee charged with reducing the deficit (that’s the “supercommittee”), and another 4 percent said it was a term for the government cleanup at hazardous waste sites (superfund). One percent of those tested said a super PAC was a “video game for a smart phone.”

    • One percent of those tested said a super PAC was a “video game for a smart phone.”

      PacMan updated////

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