The Watering Hole, Monday, August 6th, 2012: You Said It, Sister!

As some of you know, I have been invited to start my own blog on the local ‘Patch’ online newspaper. Before getting set up in my ‘new digs’, I thought I’d take a look around at the other blogs on the Patch site, to see what they looked like, what personal info showed, etc. While doing so, I ran across a blogpost from the Fourth of July, written by M. Doretta Cornell, RDC, of the Sisters of the Divine Compassion, and thought it well worth sharing.

While I do not agree with 100% of the good Sister’s sentiments, she makes excellent points, based on her interpretation of her faith, the Constitution, and in science. A few excerpts:

Our founders were declaring independence from rule by birth, by a class of people whose only claim to that rule was their parentage. No test of ability or morality or vision for the country and its people was necessary, only birth into the “right family.”

Hmm, sounds like a recent Republican President and a current Presidential hopeful we all know.

In our current economic crisis, we have much to reflect on:
– How faithful are we to this basic tenet of our country that all people are created equal and have equal rights to life, justice, ability to make a decent living – even happiness, as our founders claimed?
– How can we reform our laws and policies to create a nation in which all could prosper?
– What are we doing to close the rifts between races that are still deep in our culture, in spite of all the scientific evidence that race is a superficial characteristic?
– What are we doing to close the newer abysses that have been created between people of different religions, particularly since September 11, 2001?

Sister Mary Doretta certainly sounds like quite the liberal – just as so many of us believe Jesus would have been. Personally, I believe that today’s “Christians” would, at least figuratively, crucify him if he showed up now.

“Another aspect of independence that comes to my mind is that, for many people, independence today seems to be synonymous with egocentric individualism: the feeling that no one has contributed to this person’s achievements, and therefore that person has no responsibility for anyone but him—or herself.”

(Psst…Republicans, faux-Christians, and Libertarians, listen up, I think she’s talking to you. C’mon, even the god of the Old Testament got pretty pissed when Cain asked “Am I my brother’s keeper?”)

“…along with Independence, we must also celebrate today our Interdependence! Interdependence—not subservience. Subservience is what our founders were rebelling against in founding this new nation: the belief that some are inferior and others superior by nature, and therefore people have different rights.

Interdependence says that we all have the same “inalienable rights” and that these rights are intertwined, as are all elements of our very existence.

And here’s what I found most impressive and inspiring about Sister Doretta’s piece:

Over the last few decades, we have been learning just how deep our interdependence is, at microscopic levels of ourselves and of the world around us. Astronomy and cosmology teach us that each molecule of our bodies is inherited from one pool of matter, each breath we take is dependent on the exhalations of trees and other plants. Even the tiniest shift in temperature, or chemical makeup of the air, position of the sun, or radiation in the atmosphere would render Earth unable to support human life. We are all interdependent—people, animals, grasses, stars, Earth.

Independence, then, demands that we reflect on and adjust our understanding to the interdependence of all things and all people on each other. It also demands that we learn to act in ways that support that interdependence—ways all our moral and religious educations have taught us. And, as Jesus taught, “the greatest of these is love,” and understanding of the essentialness of each creature to the enterprise we call life.

If more Christians were this enlightened about the role of their faith’s principles and their implicit responsibility to each other and the planet that we call home, this world, or at least this country, would be an infinitely better place.

This is our daily open thread — Got anything you feel like discussing?

168 thoughts on “The Watering Hole, Monday, August 6th, 2012: You Said It, Sister!

  1. Personally, I believe that today’s “Christians” would, at least figuratively, crucify him if he showed up now.

    I can believe that because they certainly admire crosses so much so that they feel the need to wear them around their necks. I cringe every time I see a cross necklace.

    • That never used to bother me, Cats, but I admit that, like you, it bothers me a great deal today. Many so-called christians of today practice anything BUT christianity, yet wear crosses and crucifixes as a badge of honor.

    • I sometimes wear one. I stopped wearing it to market after one woman bought my products because I was wearing a cross. My faith is not a marketing tool. If anyone ever gives you a business card with the fish thingie on it, throw it away. It’s been my experience that these are the businesspeople most likely to try rip you off.

      • I’ve noticed the fish thingy phenomenon. I’ve also noticed that they tend to rip off their own. Ripping people off is bad enough, but ripping off your own community is particularly despicable IMHO. The thing is, they tend to be relatively safe for an awfully long time, since those ripped off seem reluctant to report someone sporting the fish thingy, even if they’ve been victimized them.

      • We needed to replace some windows a couple of years ago — the most prominent window company with a high-quality product was included in our search. We rejected them when we saw their brochures featured Bible quotes on the back, and the sign in front of their show room also pronounced “christian” messages.
        We bought a very similar product from a different dealer. And when I was at an convention for work, I happened upon the local window company booth — I stopped and told them why I did not patronize their shop.

      • The builder that started building our house, abandoned it without completing it and walked away with more money than he earned, had crucifixes all over his business office. As a result, I don’t trust doing business with people that wear crosses. There’s a time and place for everything.

  2. The Southern Poverty Law Center says that Wade Michael Page, the suspected shooter at a Sikh temple in Wisconsin, was a singer in a “skinhead” band called End Apathy.

    HuffPo has a big photo of the shithead on its front page. I won’t link.

  3. Well, the northwest is finally beginning to burn this hot summer, and we’re expecting a line of strong thunderstorms to run through here today. Woo hoo.

    • Why we need to return to the Eisenhower tax structures of the 50s & 60s for corporations and people. Invest it or pay it to Uncle Sam in taxes.

  4. August 6th, 1945. We view it through the lens of history and opinions are divided on whether it was necessary or was a war crime. I’ve read some of the perspectives of the prisoners, Laura Hillenbrand’s tale of the life and captivity of Louis Zamperini . I’ve also known personally one of the former prisoners (RAF based in Singapore), a gentler man I could never imagine, but his eyes used to get very cold when the subject of Japan came up.

    Anyhow for me – here’s my opinion. It was necessary, it saved many thousands of lives, especially the POWs and if the US didn’t do it in a time of war, then someone else would have done it in the years after. I think that Hiroshima and Nagasaki scared the crap out of enough of us to see what we were capable of.

    Orchestral Maneuvres in the Dark – Enola Gay

    Enola Gay, you should have stayed at home yesterday
    Aha words can’t describe the feeling and the way you lied

    These games you play, they’re gonna end in more than tears someday
    Aha Enola Gay, it shouldn’t ever have to end this way

    It’s 8:15, and that’s the time that it’s always been
    We got your message on the radio, conditions normal and you’re coming home

    Enola Gay, is mother proud of little boy today
    Aha this kiss you give, it’s never ever gonna fade away

    Enola Gay, it shouldn’t ever have to end this way
    Aha Enola Gay, it shouldn’t fade in our dreams away

    It’s 8:15, and that’s the time that it’s always been
    We got your message on the radio, conditions normal and you’re coming home

    Enola Gay, is mother proud of little boy today
    Aha this kiss you give, it’s never ever gonna fade away

    • Oh additional to my ‘necessary comment’ – it gave the Soviets serious pause in Europe and IMO how quickly the destructive technology progressed, what if Korea 1950 had been the first use of the Bomb? Or later – that first ‘oh f***!’ would have been a lot worse than the two relatively crude and small weapons used on 1945. A bit Realpolitik I know.

    • Thrilling!

      It was unbelievably exciting watching and listening to the JPL last night. (for once the west coast didn’t have to arise in the middle of the night for live action)

      Talk about science porn…the first photos coming from Mars were so damn electrifying!

  5. But climate change is merely a hoax.

    Thousands of fish die as Midwest streams heat up – Yahoo! News

    LINCOLN, Neb. (AP) — Thousands of fish are dying in the Midwest as the hot, dry summer dries up rivers and causes water temperatures to climb in some spots to nearly 100 degrees.
    About 40,000 shovelnose sturgeon were killed in Iowa last week as water temperatures reached 97 degrees. Nebraska fishery officials said they’ve seen thousands of dead sturgeon, catfish, carp, and other species in the Lower Platte River, including the endangered pallid sturgeon. And biologists in Illinois said the hot weather has killed tens of thousands of large- and smallmouth bass and channel catfish and is threatening the population of the greater redhorse fish, a state-endangered species.

    • The old saying, “Give a man a fish and he won’t be hungry today. Teach a man to fish and he won’t ever be hungry again.”

      So how does poach a river full of fish fit that?

  6. The local Rheichwhiners are busy spinning the Wisconsin shooting. “Guns don’t kill people” is, as always, popular and they are sprinkling in some “Nazis are libruls” for good measure. Of course, all the “good Christians” are disavowing any possibility that the ravings of fundamentalists might have played a part in pushing the shooter over the edge. But? The really disturbing ones are those claiming that Democrats are filled with glee every time there’s a mass shooting because it’s an excuse to take guns away from teabaggers. I’m starting to wish their fears had some basis in fact because there’s no way that they will actually engage in a serious discussion of means to prevent psychopaths from amassing arsenals.

    • Its their lack of knowledge about actual history. They have this strange idea that the Wild West was some sort of utopia where everyone carried guns. What they don’t see is how quickly the Wild West was tamed. It didn’t take very long for local citizenry to hire law enforcement that required the checking of guns. Most of the ‘heroes’ such as the Earps, quickly learned that lots of people in town carrying guns meant lots of problems.

      The actual period where everyone carrying guns was accepted was short. People didn’t want to have to carry guns to feel safe.

      • A few years ago I was in an online discussion with a couple of gun nuts who were in favor of EVERYBODY being armed, all the time. I told them I never carried a gun, didn’t own one, didn’t want one, and wouldn’t carry one even if it was ‘the law’. One of the nuts asked me, “What would you do if you happened to run across five armed black guys coming after you in a dark alley late at night?”

        “Probably make murderers out of them,” was my response. Crickets.

      • Why use just one bullet when you can have an assault rifle on semi or full automatic to make absolutely sure that moose, squirrel or other two legged game gets chock full o’ holes…?

      • The true meaning of the real America: After 236 years we can finally have our country become the armed camp it was truly meant to be. To protect the rights of the psychotic, the normal must be armed.

  7. Meanwhile in Joplin…

    It’s not confirmed to be arson (yet), but the blaze to the same mosque earlier this summer was arson.

    Joplin mosque razed in fire; 2nd blaze this summer – Yahoo! News

    JOPLIN, Mo. (AP) — A mosque in southwest Missouri burned to the ground early Monday in the second fire to hit the Islamic center in little more than a month, officials said.The fire at the Islamic Society of Joplin was reported about 3:30 a.m. Monday, the Jasper County Sheriff’s Office said. The sheriff’s department said the building was a total loss. No injuries were reported and no charges have been filed.

    • Boy, them teabaggin rednecks sure do know all about what our Foundin Fathers wanted to leave as their legacy!
      Religious intolerance, corporate control of our democratic institutions, …wait…

  8. One of the minor tiny little links on the NBC news site today asks the burning question:
    Will Romney deliver a compelling speech at the RNC?

    My answer:
    No, he’ll deliver his usual pap, word freedom salad with Obamacommunism stiff as a board socialists! delivery ho economic liberty hum stuff.

    • “Can Willard Rawmoney break with long standing tradition a deliver a speech that isn’t cadged from numerous previous attempts that will actually have some sort of meaning? Also tonight, late breaking photos that might be Nessie.”

  9. Slow day today, perusing the Bing searchcrap and find….
    The former “Queen of Porn” Jenna Jameson, 38, is supporting presidential candidate Mitt Romney (latest on his campaign) in the upcoming election (when is Election Day?). Jameson (find out her net worth) apparently made her pick because she wants to keep her low tax rate (what did she say about Romney?). However, after recent comments from Romney’s aide, she may want to rethink her decision (what does Romney want to crack down on?).

    what does Romney want to crack down on…? Anybody want to take this and run with it?

    • There was some irony that one of the companies Rmoney is connected with (Marriott) has shut off (so I am told) the naughty channels in their hotel rooms. So Miss Jameson – the MIttser is already helping to hit you where it hurts and yet you want some more?

      I had heard that Miss J had publicly gone out with her endorsement as a deliberate attempt on her part to link Mittster (1) to naked, silicone-enhanced actresses (2) to the ‘Richie Rich supports Rmoney’ meme. If that’s so that’s funny, she is the only person in Amurka who might have taken up more positions than Mitt.

  10. The real problem we face is at least 2,000 years old. It is based in ego. Odd that every aspect of civilization has advanced (when the church/government was weakest) with the sole exception of spirituality. Yes, this is in the Western world but it does effect the rest. The only place where advancement has happened is outside religion. And religion has done its best to restrict even that.

    Its all about control of society. Nationalism and religion have been in lockstep for over 1,000 years. And both have done all they can to insure that humans never lose the focus on the idea that they are subservient to either a god or a nation or both. All 3 Abrahamic religions are based on subservience to a god none can see or comprehend. All 3 tell their followers they are incapable of understanding divine guidance without interpretation. Only Judaism is honest enough to accept that humans are really slaves to the divine.

    The entire essence of Christianity and Islam is submission. Man is not capable of doing a pecking thing unless it has been submitted to and through an authority. Since we can’t know the divine, we have to submit to the earthly emissaries who are in tune with the divine, even though humans can’t know the divine.

    Therefore, the bits of ego allowed the nondivine crowd means they have to rely on the massive egos of the divine crowd. And that means those who have accepted the guidance of the nondivine crowd now have the duty of accepting they know what everyone else needs to know.

      • In some ways you can’t blame Patsy. He comes from a religion that has destroyed so many civilizations in the name of his God that he has to be confused.

      • Wouldn’t God just toast the atheists if they bothered him?
        If God were into toasting folks that displease him, I suspect ol’ Pat would be toast.

      • The beer will taste a little sweeter the evening I hear that Patsy has shuffled off this mortal coil. And I won’t even guess by which bizarre mechanism he uses to lay the blame for this on “atheists”; especially when he has fanned the flames of religious xenophobia for decades. Even if the shooter turns out to be a non religious white supremacist it would seem that he worshiped white/Christian supremacy. Either way; that’s pretty much the opposite of atheism.

      • To an atheist or a non-theist (e.g. moi), there is no god to hate. How can one hate something that doesn’t exist and never has? It’s both possible and I suppose even reasonable for some to hate the “concept” of god, the “concept” of a supreme deity that remains responsible for the constant production of human idiots such as Romney and Robinson, et al., et al., but to “hate god”? Impossible.

  11. Sikh Temple Shooter Part of Growing Trend of Anti-Sikh Violence

    Several reports out this morning indicate that Wade Michael Page, the army veteran who is suspected of killing six and injuring three at a Sikh temple in Oak Creek, WI, over the weekend, was a white supremacist and a “skinhead.” According to the Southern Poverty Law Center, Page — who was killed in a firefight with police — even played in a white-power band that had ties to neo-Nazis.

    The American wingnut right wing teabagger movement IS in philosophical alignment with the plague that infested Germany beginning with the rise to power of Adolf Hitler in the 1930’s. It’s my considered opinion that the time has arrived to ignore those who maintain that it’s not ‘proper’ to mention Hitler and the German Fascist movement in any sort of American context. Facts are facts, trends are trends, and this type of movement — a movement based solely on fear, hatred, and white supremacy — demands to be called out, exposed, and put to sleep BEFORE it finds the means to become THE political driving force in D.C.

    All it’s lacking at this point in time is the American version of Adolf Hitler to take charge and gain full power of the state. It’s not Romney, but somewhere out there ‘it’ is waiting and watching. Woe be to the world if and when …

    • That really is the one thing that doesn’t parallel Germany in the 30’s. There is no one in the Republican pantheon who has that crazy house painter’s charisma. There is lots of crazy but no serious.

      The one that worries me is Jeb.

    • Do the meteoroligists really believe that “feels like 3 degrees below hell” would make people feel cooler?
      I don’t quite understand the reasoning behind mentioning such an insignificant number difference.

  12. QOTD:

    “Out and out politicians are anathema to rock-n-roll, so I hesitate to attempt to connect the two. But on important issues, I am saddened to admit that Obama represents everything bad about humanity and Romney pretty much all that is good. It is really that stark.” — Ted Nugent

  13. Speaking of American Nazis, here’s one, a prominent one:

    Emails From ALEC Member Russell Pearce Show Anti-Immigrant Law May Have Been Racially Motivated

    […]Russell Pearce email “We are much like the Titanic as we inbreed millions of Mexico’s poor, the world’s poor and we watch our country sink,” reads one email obtained through the open records request. “They create enclaves of separate groups that shall balkanize our nation into fractured nightmares of social unrest and poverty,” reads another of the emails …

    • Blazing Saddles has become as prophetic as 1984. Two lines:

      “Alright. We’ll give some land to the Niggers and the Chinks but we don’t want any Irish!”

      “The Sheriff’s (President’s) a Nigger!”

      Of course. Mel was writing comedy and George was writing a cautionary tale while neither were writing a instruction manual.

      • Back in the 70’s Mel was writing comedy. That it has become social commentary today just says he knew more than he admitted?

  14. It’s not that these schemes are illegal, but they really don’t sit well with the common folk. Those who don’t have the luxury of moving their money around to avoid paying taxes. Remember, tax avoidance is legal, tax evasion is not. But tax avoidance really only favors the wealthy. And this pisses off Main Street.

    Romney Persona Non Grata in Italy for Bain’s Deal Skirting Taxes – Bloomberg

    Mitt Romney skipped Italy on his swing through Europe. That was probably prudent.
    That’s because Bain Capital, under Romney as chief executive officer, made about $1 billion in a leveraged buyout 12 years ago that remains controversial in Italy to this day. Bain was part of a group that bought a telephone-directory company from the Italian government and then sold it about two years later, at the peak of the technology bubble, for about 25 times what it paid.

    Bain funneled profits through subsidiaries in Luxembourg, a
    common corporate strategy for avoiding income taxes in other
    European countries, according to documents reviewed by Bloomberg
    News. The buyer, Italy’s biggest telephone company, now has a
    total market value less than what it paid Bain and other
    investors for the directory business.

    • Alas. The rest of the world seems better at spotting American buffoons than a large part of American society. The world’s press had Mittens pegged the second he opened his mouth but the “librul media” will never, ever, admit the same. At least as long as the ad money keeps pouring in.

    • The bizarre thing is that the controversy has reignited the “where’s the birth certificate” stuff despite the fact that said birth certificate has been confirmed every which way since before the whole thing got any legs. Mittens, unlike President Obama, can’t claim “I already did” when people demand that he provide tax returns.

      • An interesting take on Rmoney’s intransigence on the tax returns, from a comment at The Plum Line:

        Perhaps Romney’s returns would indicate that he may have been tithing less than 10% to the Church, thus receiving Temple Passes by deception. A grievous sin indeed, which would explain Romney’s absolute refusal and McCain’s apparent indifference.

        Harry Reid, as a practicing Mormon, is then responding as he sees appropriate for the Romnian Deception.

        I admit, that would never have occurred to me.

        • I wondered about that, and it does make sense that Harry is making this accusation. I can see why Mittens would be afraid of losing the LDS vote — and he would lose it, if he’s shorting on the tithes.

          • I’m not so sanguine. I think that Mormons are overrepresented by sneaky chiselers and even those who condemn said chiselers would still vote against the black guy. After reading much of the Book of Mormon I did a fair amount of research about the LDS. Logic, consistency, and reason are in short supply. Heck! Ol’ Joe Smith was a proven con artist of the lowest order before he even dreamed of his religious scam.

            • In thinking about it, I think you’re right, pete. The Mormon church is extremely rich, and Mitt would instantly be forgiven for his “mistake” when the fat check arrives at headquarters. They have bigger fish to fry in getting Obama out of the WH and keeping the gays from getting equal rights.

            • This is actually a reply to you, Zooey.

              The whole reason the Mormons moved to Utah is that they thought they would forever be out of reach of any real authority. In many ways they are the original “libertarians”. They make their own rules and, since said rules are created in a vacuum, they are mutable.

            • I hate to say it, because I think it may be bigoted, but I really dislike the LDS church and people who are Mormons. I don’t trust any of them.

            • There is a difference between distrust and prejudice, Zooey. I find it impossible to trust Mormons myself. Either they truly believe the weirdest stuff this side of Scientology or they lie about believing the weirdest stuff this side of Scientology in the name of wealth and power.

  15. Woo-hoo!

    There’s a local brewery called Summit that puts out seasonal “samplers”. It’s a 12 pack composed of four seasonal beers. The Fall Sampler, that my local booze store just got in, is definitely composed of a higher alcohol content than their Summer Sampler. Since I’m basically a “happy drunk”; I must confess that I’m already full of goodwill towards just about everyone whether they deserve it or not.

    • We finally got ‘high gravity’ beer here in Alabama a couple of years ago. I’ve got an Abita Abbey Ale (22 oz x 8%) chilling in the fridge for a little later with a pepperoni calzone for dinner. I only brought the one home, because if I drank two of those tonight, I wouldn’t make it to work tomorrow.

      • Many years ago I tried a German dark malt liquor that was 14% by volume. I think I enjoyed it but I can only base that assumption on my alleged activities as reported by people who might derive enjoyment from embellishing my odd behavior.

  16. I can’t believe I forgot to mention the hookers.

    I was on the way to the store the other day and noticed a couple gals who were “presenting” in a rather obvious way. I thought; “they must be open for business” but didn’t really mean it. Well? On my way to the store today the same two gals were standing on the same corner and one of them asked if I was looking to “party”. Alas; I have already allocated my disposable income for the month so all I had to offer them was a “good luck”.

    • reminds me of the time I saw a gal flashing a “peace” sign while pulling her “daisy dukes” down to the five o’clock shadow….

      “Don’t touch that! You don’t know where it’s been!”

      • I can’t remember the last time I read any comments on TP.

        don’t want to, either. and to think, one time I was willing to work on their staff…just for the opportunity to move into that part of the world. they turned me down… their loss.

  17. DailyKos:

    “Remember the DHS report about Veterans being recruited to Right-Wing terrorist groups which was leaked and led newly appointed Homeland Secretary Janet Napolitano to initially defending the report but later having to apologize and withdrawing the report after she was thrown under the bus by her own party (Bennie Thompson, Congressman from MS) & severely criticized by Republicans.”

  18. QOTD II:

    “It’s as if words no longer have any meaning, and Americans politics has become so blisteringly stupid, candidates believe they can say literally anything and get away with it.” — Steve Benen referring to Romney’s loathsome lies about the Ohio voting lawsuit.

    • That sounds about right. As I keep saying; the world’s press announced that Mittens is a idiot the second they paid any attention to him while the “librul media”, here at home, is beholden to the myth that he’s a viable candidate. They are very handsomely paid to maintain that myth.

  19. Anyone notice how quiet John McCain is regarding Harry Reid’s alleged big fat lie? He’s the only one who’s seen Mitt’s tax returns, right?

    • Ol’ Flippy McSpin likes Mittens less than Bible Spice. Considering that Bible Spice ensured that America would elect a black man named Barack Hussein Obama…?

    • ‘ “Everything was fine,” McCain told reporters on Capitol Hill. “I can personally vouch for the fact that there was nothing in his tax returns that would in any way be disqualifying for him to be a candidate.”

      When pressed about whether Romney might be shielding his returns because he paid no taxes, McCain refused to discuss such specifics.

      “Please, I am not going to get into that kind of conversation,” he said. “All I can tell you, and I can tell you again, is there was nothing disqualifying in his tax returns. And that is a fact.” ‘

  20. ALERT!!!

    All you Misties must watch the short at the start of this experiment. Nothing they say can make the subject matter any funnier or creepier. I’ll try to remember to give it a bump tomorrow.

    G’night, good people.

  21. My goodness gracious, for pete’s sake, there’s lots of swearing going on this librul site. Cleanliness is Gawd’s way, and I would think you atheists, on the chance, you heathens do like games of chance, albeit your vile mouths, need a soaping. Or as my leader says, Poppycock!

  22. I was reading about the shallowness that is FauxSnooze – opining about Gabby Douglas’ hair. Petty! The woman is in the Olympics for stars sake…the Olympic, meaning she’s accomplished!

    Why aren’t the talking about that silly Sheldon Adelson’s hair
    Dumpy Trump’s?

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