Watering Hole: Tuesday, October 2, 2012 – The Paulies

The other evening, I saw a pick-up truck that had a Ron Paul for President sign that took up half of the back panel.  It was huge and it made me think, “What will this person do on election day?  Will they write-in ‘Ron Paul’ or will they simply not vote for any of the presidential candidates?”

The Republican Party has been trying to ignore Ron Paul and his supporters and they even attempted to keep Ron Paul’s delegates from attending the Republican Convention.  There is no assurance that the “Paulies” will vote for Mitt Romney.

What the Romney campaign fears is that the Ron Paul supporters will never vote for Mitt.  The campaign had Paul Ryan address this problem at a recent Ohio rally in which Ryan called on the “Paulies” to vote for Romney.

Though Paul is no longer in the race, many of his supporters have vowed to “write him in” in ballots across the country. For them, the Romney/Ryan ticket doesn’t represent their ideals, and many believe there aren’t substantial differences between Mitt Romney, who, as governor of Massachusetts, signed into law a health care bill largely considered to be the blueprint for the unpopular Obamacare, and the current occupant of the Oval Office.


But now, Paul supporters seem to have the upper hand as Election Day nears and the Republican ticket seems to be scrambling to keep what has been — at least, until now — a close race to unseat President Barack Obama. And it remains to be seen if some of Paul’s most fervent supporters would give the Romney/Ryan ticket a chance, especially after numerous incidents during which they felt alienated by the establishment wing of the Republican Party as the GOP primaries unfolded.

The first debate is scheduled for tomorrow, October 3rd and only two candidates will be part of the debate.  There are other candidates that will appear on ballots across the nation, such as, Gary Johnson, Libertarian Party and Jill Stein, Green Party.  They were not invited to the debates.  Let’s face it.  On the national level, America is governed by a two party system.

This is our Open Thread.  Feel free to Speak Up!


189 thoughts on “Watering Hole: Tuesday, October 2, 2012 – The Paulies

  1. Let’s face it. On the national level, America is governed by a two party system.

    It’s the kind of binary thinking symptomatic of a brain incapable of seeing nuance. I have often argued for more diversity in our Congress. Not diversity of skin color or ethnic background, but of political parties. It always bothers me that anyone not a Dem or Repub is considered an “Independent” regardless of their actual party affiliation. That tells you something right there: It’s a two-party system, and the two major parties want to keep it that way.

    • Lest anyone think I’ve gone all Bigot, of course I want racial and ethnic diversity in our Congressional representation. It’s just not what I meant this time by “diversity”. I want political diversity, instead of just two parties who are, for the most part, pretty much alike. (Let’s be honest about it.)

      I’d like to have a party whose main concern is the Environment. I want a party whose main concern is Labor. I want there to be no party with a clear majority in either House. That way, they’ll have to listen to the other parties in order to get legislation passed.

  2. After Ralph Nader’s 2000 candidacy helped George W Bush steal the election, do you really want third party candidates on the left in the race for president? In a recent survey, most of us found our views more closely agreed with Ms. Stein than Obama, but in swing states, voting third party could be handing electoral votes to Romney.
    On the other hand, I am all for Virgil Goode’s appearance on the Virginia ballot, siphoning off votes from Mitt Romney. If the Ron Paul supporters break from the Republican Party because of the way their delegates were treated at the RNC, and vote Libertarian, I’m for that too.

  3. It’s a difficult break to make, choosing to vote for a third party, when that vote could mean Republican control of our government. The SCOTUS appointments upcoming as Justices Ginzburg and Breyer appear to be ready to step down are reason enough for me to choose between the two parties, and yes, that sucks.

    • The likely possibility of of SCOTUS appointments is a most important consideration in this election.
      Conservatives hate Obama for whatever reason – but liberals who are disillusioned that Obama couldn’t perform miracles, and choose to sit out this election will cause enormous harm to all of us if a Republican in the White House affects the SCOTUS.

  4. Word Play:

    Ron Paul
    Pauly Shore
    Shore Leave
    Leave us alone.

    Ron pauly shore leave us alone!

    • If I May,,,

      Ron Paul
      Paul Ryan
      Ryan’s Express
      Express train to Hell.

      Ron Paul Ryan’s Express Train to Hell.

  5. Ed Kilgore nails the Republican debate strategery on WaMo this AM

    Liberal! Liberal! Liberal!

    Key Excerpt:
    “…Romney is going to stare into the cameras as often as possible and utter big, dumb lies aimed at low-information voters while reinforcing the more primitive of conservative “base” beliefs. The Obamacare-increased-your-taxes meme is useful because it take a lot of ‘splainin to rebut, as does the convoluted Romney claim that middle-class folks will do better than the wealthy under his own tax proposals.”

    • To me, about the only thing that makes this upcoming debate even mildly interesting is the report that Mitt is memorizing a litany of “spontaneous zingers.”

      Anybody else see the potential for Mitt to utter an epic FAIL when he tries out one of his pre-canned “zingers”?

      Pulling out “zingers” is engaging in a battle of wits, In this case, it means Obama will be battling a half-armed man.

      • Rmoney’s bringing a butter knife to a gunfight.
        Zingers somewhat lose their effect with an eight second time delay.

      • What amazes me is not the canned zingers (how else could Romney look spontaneous?) but the announcement or leak ahead of time that they were going to use canned zingers!

    • That’s probably how it will go down. If anyone calls Romney on any of his lies I will be very surprised. Even Obama will probably stay away from it.

    • I’m not going to read that because I fear contagion of idiocy, but as the rabbi said, thanks for the tip. I will be curious to see how this will all be spun after the election, and suspect that we’ll hear a variety of memes from the Right while they determine which excuse to use. Currently, the prevalent story is that the entire media is in Obama’s pocket.

  6. I think they had to keep working with him because he wasn’t getting them down properly. The synapses don’t fire as fast at 65 as they did at 35, or even 50. Given time to deliberate, he might pull out the appropriate ones, but time is at a premium in a debate.

    • I see the makings of an SNL sketch – Robin Williams trying to teach Mitt how to be spontaneously funny.

        • How can you have rehearse zingers when you don’t know what the other person is going to say. Hillary said, “I think I’m likable.” Obama said, “You’re likable enough Hillary.” Zing.

          • Let’s see..hmmm. let me look through these forty or so index cards I’m palming, wait, that’s a, no, OK, then, not that…wait! how about this one…Told you SO!!

  7. The US 2-party system is so entrenched now, it will take a revolution to unseat it. With Congressional ‘Stagnation’ in excess of 90% – that’s right 90% of seats in the US Congress are not in play in each election – due to gerrymandering by *both* sides.

    Chomsky sees it as a one party state – the party of business – or the ‘f’ word

    Obama’s failure to pursue the banks after 2008 is the only data point you need to support Chomsky’s thesis.

    There is very little true democracy left in the US, frankly.

    • At least at the local level here, there seems to be plenty of democracy. Of course, as a liberal in Leftie Land it might just be that I’m encouraged by the near invisibility of the Wacky Right.

  8. Ow, that had to leave a mark Scott ‘I’m not a Republican really until I vote like one’ Brown chose Nino as his fav SCOTUS judge … and got instant crowd feedback. He tried to save himself with a Palin-esque ‘I like/read all of them’ …. but he may have made one of his last swirls around the pan last night.

    • If Obama really has a 30 point lead in MA, Brown is circling rapidly in a counter-clockwise manner. Alongside the forty squares of TP it took to wipe that skid mark from the crack.

      • Beth really needs to simply tie Brown to Rmoney and Scalia. She’s already doing it with Rmoney …. her inexperience and the Kochsucker money is the only thing keeping that empty suit in it. Come on Beth, honey, put the boot in.

    • He clearly couldn’t think of one off the bat…Scalia was the first to come to mind.

  9. You reap what you sow.

    Michele Bachmann’s Chicago Synagogue Visit Drives Attendees To Leave, Donate To Her Opponent

    Rep. Michele Bachmann (R-Minn.) swung by a Chicago-area synagogue for a worship service on the eve of Yom Kippur last week, upsetting congregants and provoking one man to mount a campaign for her Democratic challenger before the end of the night.

    The Chicago Tribune reports that Rabbi Michael Siegel of Anshe Emet Synagogue observed protocol by offering a customary greeting to Bachmann during the services. While elected officials are traditionally acknowledged during such events at the temple, the presence of the conservative Minnesota firebrand prompted particular displeasure.

    Some reportedly walked out of the ceremony, while Gary Sircus, a 25-year member of Anshe Emet Synagogue, voiced more active opposition to Bachmann’s attendance.

    “The holiness of the room and the holiness of the evening was greatly diminished for me, if not completely destroyed,” said Sircus, according to the Tribune. “Our congregation values and embodies tolerance, compassion, respect for individual rights, intelligence, science — all of the things that I think Michele Bachmann stands against.”

    • WTF? So she’s too busy to debate her opponent or actually face questions from her constituents but she can visit a synagogue in Chicago? It’s especially maddening because those crazy enough to vote for her will assert that she “works tirelessly for her district” when all she does is wander the country doing TV interviews and bothering people who don’t like her.

      • The incumbent House GOPers are not debating their opponents because they don’t want the voters to recognize the names of the opponents when they go to vote. It’s all about keeping the name of their opponents away from the voters.

    • Good luck convincing the Secret Service that the juxtaposition of your firearm and the “Welcome to Tennessee” message doesn’t imply a threat, asshole.

    • it’s come down to two factions…

      the sensible liberals and the conservative haters.

    • According to these bozos, there is only ONE amendment to the Constitution that is worth fighting for and that is the 2nd Amendment. To them, all other amendments are of little value especially any amendment that protect the right to vote.

  10. Could someone try visiting Think Progress and let us know what happens? I’m getting a strange warning message from my browser about the site being an “attack” site, but when I click through to the explanation, there doesn’t appear to be any indication of malicious software.

  11. I’ve just discovered Respighi’s Fountains of Rome.

    Of course they weren’t lost, but I just heard it for the first time this weekend, and I’m very enthralled.

    There’s so much joy in encountering a beautiful piece of music for the first time.

    • Why is it Holy Rollers never pay attention to the Beware False Prophets part of the End of Days insanity?

    • OK, normally I wouldn’t do this, but…
      Ralph Reed, I pray that you be given the gift of a lung lesion.
      I pray that you visit your doctor and be told, after a couple of CT scans, perhaps a PET exam that the “tumor board” at your hospital tells you to “wait 90 days and come back for more testing”.
      During that 90 day waiting period, pray a lot that the tumor doesn’t spicolate and start spreading the cancer to your lymphatic system. Pray that your death panel request for you to wait isn’t your death sentence. Pray, Ralph, Pray.

    • All Ralph Reed wants is for his supporters to just keep sending him money. If Romney were to be elected, it would be bad for Reed’s business unless he started attacking Romney’s religion. That might keep the coffers filled.

    • I read something recently (Slate?) about the Bush Gore debate, the one with all the sighs. This person had gone back and sat through tape of the entire tape, concluding that there were very few sighs and that the immediate survey of viewers clearly gave the victory to Gore. The press, however, played those sighs, compressed in time, over and over and pushed the line that Bush had won the debate.

      In other words, watch out for the after-debate “analysis.” In all likelihood, the media will reach a consensus and then push that without any self-examination.

  12. Todd Akin: The gift that keeps on giving.

    And what sort of places do these bottom-of-the-food-chain doctors work in? Places that are really a pit. You find that along with the culture of death go all kinds of other law-breaking: not following good sanitary procedure, giving abortions to women who are not actually pregnant, cheating on taxes, all these kinds of things, misuse of anesthetics so that people die or almost die…

    *evil laugh*

    • Not to mention prescribing exhorbitant amounts of pain killing medications to fat, stupid radio talk show hosts!

    • While I don’t believe anything Akin has said, or is likely to say in the future, we’d have a lot more abortion providers to choose from if the morons would quit shooting them, threatening to harm their families, and following their children to school with chopped up fetus photos.

    • Breathe deep the gathering gloom,
      Watch lights fade from every room.
      Bedsitter people look back and lament,
      Another day’s useless energy spent.
      Impassioned lovers wrestle as one,
      Lonely man cries for love and has none.
      New mother picks up and suckles her son,
      Senior citizens wish they were young.
      Cold hearted orb that rules the night,
      Removes the colours from our sight.
      Red is grey and yellow white.
      But we decide which is right.
      And which is an illusion?

    • Sure wish the President would ask him what he did in response to witnessing the living conditions in that factory…

  13. We ARE live-blogging the debate tomorrow, right?

    The question I’d ask Willard:

    What are the main differences between your domestic and foreign policies and those of the last Republican president, George W. Bush?

    • eh, eh, eh, tomorrow is domestic policy only. We have to roast Willard on that side first.

    • Whoa cowboy, that long sentences with big words will confuse him just like it would W. In fact i think W was smarter.

    • She did a great job. Some mean girls at Taylor’s school called her fat when they went to the beach. Upset her so bad one of the boys took a bus back with her to school. Thank FSM for gay boys.

      • Taylor? Your daughter who could give angel’s singing lessons? Please tell her that jealousy is not even to be listened to.

        • Thank you both. It’s amazing how emotional freshman college kids are. Not just Taylor but all her friends. One boy got a full ride USC for music composition and even he’s not thrilled to be there. I think it’s hard because they realize they’re not babies any more. Anyway those bitches got Taylor at a really vulnerable time.

    • We did have an aggressive boar who hated my husband. No one who handles large animals should ever lose sight of the fact that they can kill you. If I collapsed in the hog pasture it’s even possible the hogs would try to help me. It’s also possible they would eat me. I did have a pig die a few years back and its herdmates did not eat it. Some aggression may be due to the way the pigs are raised. I’ve gotten a lot more careful though since I lost my ability to run fast.

      • My husband always midwifes Lili, she loves him and probably thinks he’s the daddy of the her pigs. Last time one squealed when he picked it up to check it. She didn’t go for him, but she gave him a look that made him believe he should never do that again.

        • Speaking of aggressive pigs, New Mexico is being inundated by herds of feral hogs. Those things are nasty, and they’ll hurt you. Feral hogs on top of Javelina/Peccary

  14. Just got a personal email from Nancy Pelosi. The DCCC raised $10 million in September from grassroots contributions–average $35 per person. I doubt it’s realistic that she could get her gavel back but I can always dream.

  15. Email from Beth:

    “Terry — At last night’s debate, Scott Brown was asked to name his model Supreme Court Justice.
    Scott Brown’s answer? Antonin Scalia.
    Scalia: the same judge who said he was “adamantly opposed” to Roe v. Wade. Who opposes equal protection for women. Who even opposes the right to contraception.
    Yes, that Antonin Scalia.

    This wasn’t a trivial question like “who’s your favorite superhero.” It matters.
    Four Supreme Court Justices are over the age of 70. As a United States Senator, Scott Brown gets a vote to confirm our Supreme Court Justices. He gets a say as to whether the Democrats or Republicans control the Senate Judiciary Committee.

    If the Supreme Court was filled with a majority of Antonin Scalias, our country could move in a terrifying direction for all of us.

    Forward this email to your friends. Share the video clip on Facebook and Twitter. Massachusetts voters need to know what sort of people Scott Brown wants to see on the United States Supreme Court.

    Smooches, Beth”

  16. From Terry’s dad, today 😦 He got both barrels:

    “If you don’t know GOD, don’t make stupid remarks!!!!!! A young soldier was taking some college courses between assignments. He had completed 3 tours of duty in Afghanistan.
    One of the courses had a professor who was an avowed atheist and a member of the Canadian Civil Liberties Association (CCLA).

    One day the professor shocked the class when he came in.He looked to the ceiling and flatly stated, “GOD, if you are real, then I want you to knock me off this platform… I’ll give you exactly 15 min.”

    The lecture room fell silent. You could hear a pin drop. Ten minutes went by and the professor proclaimed, “Here I am GOD, I’m still waiting.”

    It got down to the last couple of minutes when the soldier got out of his chair, went up to the professor, and cold-cocked him; knocking him clean off the platform. The professor was out cold.

    The young soldier went back to his seat and sat there, silently.The other students were shocked and stunned, and sat there looking on in silence.The professor eventually came to, noticeably shaken, looked at the soldier and asked, “What in the world is the matter with you? Why did you do that?”

    The young soldier stood up and calmly replied, “GOD was too busy today protecting soldiers, who are protecting your right to say stupid crap and act like an idiot. So He sent me.”

    The classroom erupted in cheers!


    • As long as we have people who think violence against others is some sort of act of god, we will be doomed to war and violence. If God won’t fight his own battles, he’s sort of a peace loving hippy.

      • That was the essence of my response Hooda, I closed it with:

        “In keeping with the news, how about this?

        Professor: ““Allah if you are real and Mohammed is your prophet why don’t you come and knock this infidel down?”” is this still ‘good’?”

    • I knew dragonflies were pleasing to the eye, but butterflies are pallets of perfection presenting to beholders a bounty of beauty! 😉

  17. I’ve now seen three Romney/Ryan signs: one in Clarkston, one in Lewiston, and one in Orofino.

    He’s on a roll!!

  18. Well I’m not a believer but this touched me.
    Dogs In Heaven?

    An old man and his dog were walking down this dirt road with fences on both sides, they came to a gate in the fence and looked in, it was nice grassy, woody areas, just what a ‘huntin’ dog and man would like, but, it had a sign saying ‘no trespassing’ so they walked on. They came to a beautiful gate with a person in white robes standing there. “Welcome to Heaven” he said. The old man was happy and started in with his dog following him. The gatekeeper stopped him. “Dogs aren’t allowed, I’m sorry but he can’t come with you.”

    “What kind of Heaven won’t allow dogs? If he can’t come in, then I will stay out with him. He’s been my faithful companion all his life, I can’t desert him now.”

    “Suit yourself, but I have to warn you, the Devil’s on this road and he’ll try to sweet talk you into his area, he’ll promise you anything, but the dog can’t go there either. If you won’t leave the dog, you’ll spend Eternity on this road.”

    So the old man and dog went on. They came to a rundown fence with a gap in it, no gate, just a hole. Another old man was inside. “S’cuse me Sir, my dog and I are getting mighty tired, mind if we come in and sit in the shade for awhile?”

    “Of course, there’s some cold water under that tree over there. Make yourselves comfortable”

    “You’re sure my dog can come in? The man down the road said dogs weren’t allowed anywhere.”

    “Would you come in if you had to leave the dog?”

    “No sir, that’s why I didn’t go to Heaven, he said the dog couldn’t come in.
    We’ll be spending Eternity on this road, and a glass of cold water and some shade would be mighty fine right about now. But, I won’t come in if my buddy here can’t come too, and that’s final.”

    The man smiled a big smile and said “Welcome to Heaven.”

    “You mean this is Heaven? Dogs ARE allowed? How come that fellow down the road said they weren’t?”

    “That was the Devil and he gets all the people who are willing to give up a life long companion for a comfortable place to stay. They soon find out their mistake, but then it’s too late. The dogs come here, the fickle people stay there. GOD wouldn’t allow dogs to be banned from Heaven. After all, HE created them to be man’s companions in life, why would he separate them in death?”

    (Based on the “Twilight Zone” episode “The Hunt” written by Earl Hamner Jr.)

      • Just this side of heaven is a place called Rainbow Bridge.

        When an animal dies that has been especially close to someone here, that pet goes to Rainbow Bridge. There are meadows and hills for all of our special friends so they can run and play together. There is plenty of food, water and sunshine, and our friends are warm and comfortable.
        All the animals who had been ill and old are restored to health and vigor. Those who were hurt or maimed are made whole and strong again, just as we remember them in our dreams of days and times gone by. The animals are happy and content, except for one small thing; they each miss someone very special to them, who had to be left behind.

        They all run and play together, but the day comes when one suddenly stops and looks into the distance. His bright eyes are intent. His eager body quivers. Suddenly he begins to run from the group, flying over the green grass, his legs carrying him faster and faster.

        You have been spotted, and when you and your special friend finally meet, you cling together in joyous reunion, never to be parted again. The happy kisses rain upon your face; your hands again caress the beloved head, and you look once more into the trusting eyes of your pet, so long gone from your life but never absent from your heart.

        Then you cross Rainbow Bridge together….

  19. More good news in Pennsylvania. Governor Corbett and House Majority Leader Turzai are being sued by registered voters, just to name a few.

    The plaintiffs in the lawsuit charged that their federal constitutional rights to work together and cooperate in an effort to elect Obama is being violated by Corbett and Turzai who are using the power of the state to unlawfully interfere with their First Amendment rights.

    Someone should go after Tom Corbett’s ass for his negligence in handling the Sandusky scandal.

    • A coworker of mine is in Denver right now, waiting for news of his brother who is in ICU with pneumonia and some hideous disease that inhibits the antibiotics needed for the pneumonia. Or something something I didn’t understand. Said brother is 24 and was married in July. He and his wife are both working and studying and his health coverage is through the college. My coworker went over today to pay his brother’s tuition so the college would have one less reason to deny coverage. And, of course, there’s no way to know how much the coverage will pay. And, of course, the odds are he’ll die. At 24.

      • Sounds really awful. Another issue that doesn’t get the press it deserves is the “super bug” epidemic. If it’s not “flesh eating” it doesn’t make the news but the fact is we are losing ground in an evolutionary war with bacteria and viruses. My old friend, Chuck, recently lost another 3 inches of leg because his MRSA reappeared in his femur. If it comes back they are going to remove his leg at the hip.

        • That’s just terrible, pete. I’m sorry to hear this.

          Chuck must be colonized with MRSA, and now it takes every opportunity to attack.

          • Yeah, he’s pretty down. It hits whenever he gets a sore on his leg from learning to use the prosthesis and that’s something that can’t really be avoided. Now they’re telling him he should wait a full year before he tries again but that will just make the risk of injury higher.

            • That’s what happened with my mom. I tried to tell her that she shouldn’t try to use the prosthesis, but she was SO determined to get her life back — who could blame her!!?? Eventually, she wasn’t strong enough to use the prosthesis, so the MRSA began attacking her COPD ravaged lungs.

              It’s very frustrating.

      • They can try aromatherapy/essential oils. Put some on a napkin and let him smell the napkin. The medical profession in England is using essential oils to treat antibiotic resistent bacteria with success. I would suggest, thyme and rosemary as these are very potent. Get good quality oils. Don’t go for the cheap stuff because chances are they are nothing more than artificial scents which won’t work.

      • Hanta virus?

        That’s really dangerous stuff, even to the young and healthy. I hope he pulls through. God damn health care system.

      • How sad. Drug companies won’t develop new antibiotics because there’s not enough money in them I guess. We need government to work on it. But Congress wouldn’t allow it I’m sure.

  20. It looks like TP’s issues are resolved.

    We’ve confirmed with Google the source of the problem and removed it. The site is back up and safe, though the error message will display until Google rescans.

  21. So the Republicans are pulling out Rev. Wright again. The Mormon issue is a lot more serious according to ex Mormons. Wouldn’t now be a good time to bring it up. They have this White Horse Prophesy thing.

  22. Today has been a perfect fall day — crystal clear, cooler, and windy. Even a few leaves fell. So very nice…

    • We are having some glorious weather too, Zooey. Mid 70s, dry as a bone, and light but gusty winds that make flying my gliders an exhilarating experience. It’s supposed to come to a crashing halt tomorrow night when we drop 30 degrees in a few hours followed by killing frost the next few nights that will probably bring leaf season to an abrupt end.

      Then, of course, the local papers are full of comments like “the leaves are turning; where’s this global warming?” Never mind the fact that leaves that depend on temperature are still vibrant green and we are in the grips of a severe drought.

      • Gawd, people are stupid. 🙄

        Apparently, the temps are going to drop significantly up on top, but here in the valley, things are a bit more moderate.

        I’m supposed to provide the vehicle for my son’s move on Saturday, so hopefully the temps will be nice.

  23. I can’t believe Mitt ever ran a business. He seems clueless. If he limits tax deductions to 17K, what happens to subchapter S corporations and other entities (like farms) that report their business income and business deductions on their individual tax returns? Does Mitt hate small business?

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