Live-blogging the 2nd 2012 presidential debate

President Obama and Mitt Romney will meet this evening at Hofstra University in New York for their second “debate.”  It will start at 9 p.m. ET, and will be a townhall style format, with CNN’s Candy Crowley moderating.  The questions will come from so-called undecided voters in attendance.  i don’t get the whole “undecided voter” thing, but there it is.

C-Span will have live coverage of the debate here.

Thinkprogress has five facts for us to remember:

1. The deficit is largely a product of tax cuts and wars. The newest report out from the Congressional Budget Office shows that we have a still-large but slowing budget shortfall, with the deficit at $1.1 trillion for 2012. But the issues that are adding the most to our deficit aren’t health care costs or the stimulus; wars and tax cuts are responsible for that.

Zooey:  And remember, it’s a filthy lie that Obama has increased the deficit in any way — he’s actually lowered it.

2. When US officials asked for more security in Libya, they wanted it in Tripoli, not Benghazi.The attack on the United States embassy in Libya was a tragedy that has had a confusing aftermath. Republicans have claimed that employees at the Benghazi embassy asked for more security in the days before the attack, but actually it was the embassy in Tripoli, not Benghazi where the attack occurred, that sought longer hours for its security guards.

Zooey:  Also, remember that the House refused to pay for increased security in our foreign embassies.

3. 72 million people would be uninsured under Romney’s health plan. A recent study of Romney’s health care plan shows that it would increase health care premiums for most Americans, and would leave 72 million people uninsured. If the Affordable Care Act were repealed, 60 million Americans would remain uninsured. Under Obama’s plan, that number is expected to drop to 27.1 million.

Zooey:  Remember, Romney’s plan will cover those with pre-existing conditions, BUT only for people who already have health insurance, which makes no fucking sense.

4. If the DREAM Act were passed, it would add $329 billion to the economy by 2030.President Obama has vowed the pass the DREAM Act — a bill that provides a pathway to citizenship for young, undocumented students and service members — while candidate Romney has said he’d veto it. According to a joint report by the Center for American Progress and the Partnership for a New American Economy, passing the DREAM Act “would add $329 billion to the U.S. economy and create 1.4 million new jobs by 2030.”

5. The “six studies” that Romney cites in defense of his tax plan are actually 3 blog posts, 2 right-wing reports and 1 op-ed. The idea that a Romney administration could give a 20 percent tax cut to everyone, and then pay for it by eliminating loopholes and deductions for the wealthy has been strong refuted by the Tax Policy Center. Romney has cited six other “studies” that confirm his plan could work, but those are dubious: One is a report by the conservative Heritage foundation, one is a paper from a former Bush adviser, one is an op-ed in the Wall Street Journal, and three are blog posts.

Zooey:  If you like this “study” I’ve posted for the evening, please click “like” and share it to your favorite social network.  Everyone knows that gives a “study” like mine more credibility.  😀

Have fun with the live-blogging, all y’all!  There are no rules, but alcohol and a sense of humor really help.  Just sayin’…


476 thoughts on “Live-blogging the 2nd 2012 presidential debate

      • Hi Shayne ~ I was napping at the USGS designated time of 7:12pm … about 10 minutes later I awoke to a loud “random” crash outside – dog seemed unphased … maybe related ?

        • Did something fall? The one earthquake we had here was in the middle of the night and the house just went thunk. My husband didn’t believe I’d heard or felt anything.

          • The last earthquake I felt was over ten years ago. The earthquake was in the Seattle area and I was in Moscow, but it felt like a huge wave just came all the way across the state. Made us feel queasy.

            • That was the only wave type earthquake I’ve ever felt. Usually they’re the jolt types that break windows and cause bricks to fall on people’s heads.

            • Usually when we were in LA the only way I knew was people would be sweeping crap off the sidewalks.

            • Yes I did. Especially because I was always lost in LA. Until I got a GPS the last year we went. One time I had to call a friend back in Chicago to find my way back to the hotel.

            • The Marin County quake was the rolling wave. A 2.2 near where I was staying; I thoight I was feeling a delayed hangover from the Sonoma/Napa outings the day before. Queesy indeed, Zooey!

            • Shayne, the dog was being a total tweeker before my nap. I just thought she was acting up because I had been away for the weekend … She KNEW! And it is the same stamping/whining she does pre-hurricane … then when the first raindrop falls, she relaxes. Maybe the “crash” made her “chill”? 🙂

            • Hi Jane! That rolling one was just as you described … And all I could think to do was to surf it (sans board, of course). Still would have rather felt the water and seen the shoreline 🙂

          • Checked outside where the “crash” sound came from … didn’t see anything (it was dusk).
            The other quakes I felt (Marin County 1999 and last year’s ” I don’t remember where the epicemter was” were the rolling and shaking sensations. All a little unsettling.

            • Hi, Lass!
              I’ve been in both types of earthquakes, albeit small ones. The ‘jolt’ type in San Diego, building shaking, things falling off of shelves, etc. The ‘wave’ one was weird, it felt more like an underground train heading straight toward the house. I felt it coming from the north, it rumbled underneath the house then continued south and ‘disappeared.’

      • The little quake Va had a year+ ago made my house dance. I didn’t know a structure could be so noisy.

  1. I have a small business and I don’t need any help from Romney. If we cleared $250K a year in profits I’d be thrilled to pay taxes.

      • We need customers with enough money to pay for the repairs they need. People who desperately need 4 tires only buy 2 because they went flat.

  2. My Congressman Judy Bigger was on a debate Sunday. The district was redrawn and I think the guy she’s running against was already a Rep too. Anyway Biggert is barely functioning She appears to have some sort of dementia. Watch the idiot Republicans around here vote her in again.

  3. I don’t even know how to comment anymore. And I accuse somebody else of having dementia. The nerve of me.

  4. Some guy on Thom Hartmann today (I think) said the way Romney stared at Obama and smiled is a symptom of a psychiatric disorder. Can’t remember which one.

    • He stares at everyone that way. I’m not coming up with the disorder though. Damn wine! That’s my excuse anyway.

      • Well I wasn’t even sure it was Thom’s show so I certainly wasn’t going to remember who said it. Didn’t he say people like that are dangerous.

        • They’re the kind of people who are socially awkward with people they aren’t familiar with, and they slap an adoring look on their faces because they’ve learned that putting on a “don’t give a flying fuck” look on their face doesn’t work as well. Damn, I wish I could remember what it is!

          • Taylor thinks he has mild autism. There’s always a lot of autistic kids in the music program. Now in her music ed piano class there’s a one armed trombone player. The piano teacher in the lab can hear them on earphones and forgets and keeps asking him why he’s only playing with his one hand.

  5. Steve Schmidt succinctly and accurately described what each candidate needs to do tonight. Speaking to people who haven’t decided after all this time between two vastly different men, you MUST avoid the wonkiness and numbers and go for the gut, and be simple with your answers.

  6. It seems to me that if people are still undecided, and there is so little enthusiasm among the electorate, those people will probably just stay home.

  7. I’ve got to go watch this thing with my family. I hope it doesn’t make me want to curse.

    • Yeah, she shut him down as she should have. I’m sure the RWNJ’s will be whining about that.

  8. Tell me why they couldn’t use lapel mics on these guys instead of them having walk around holding the phallic symbol.

  9. WTF is Willard talking about?? These people don’t know either but it sounds ominus.

  10. Over $4./gallon … that’s inexpensive. We’re nearing and some have surpassed $5./gallon here in California!

    • Glad I’m no watching. Only listening. And that’s bad enough as hios

      “Not true Gov. Romney”

      Fuck OFF Mittens.

  11. FUCK YOU Romney!

    Will the RWNJs call him out for the rudeness and disrespect to the President?

  12. So if gas is $8 a gallon under a Romney presidency, who will be to blame?

    The president doesn’t control gas prices.

  13. My sister is busily deleting my comments on her FB posts. I guess I’ve alienated my last sister.

    I’m not thinking it’s a great loss right now.

  14. Mitt never said the wealthy would pay a dime more in taxes, they are already too well off with the status quo.

  15. Romney wants to reduce rates and eliminate deductions. Think about it. The middle class get screwed by this. Businesses always have deductions. I know. I had a business.

  16. Obama missed an opportunity to say to the last questioner: did you notice he didn’t answer your question?

  17. If Crowley was a football ref, she would be throwing the flag at Romney at the end of every one of his turns. He won’t stop when his time is up!

  18. Obama has an annoying habit of circling around the KEY point to an answer and prefacing it with a word salad.

  19. Obama should have contrasted the Repub vote on Lily Ledbetter. All the male Repubs voted against, and all the women voted for it.

  20. This is hard to watch someone who lies as easily as he breathes. My god, it’s just stunning.

  21. Obama flunks his opportunity. It’s easy: Bush wanted tax cuts as the magic bullet; so does Romney; Bush wanted to invade Iraq; Romney wants to attack Iran. And yet Obama does not bash Bush

  22. Reagan recession vs Bush recession is 5-6 million manufacturing jobs different. Apples and oranges.

    • Romney – who said that Bush was in a different era and couldn’t be compared with him today – and then uses Reagan’s recovery crap.

  23. The first fuck you occurred at 9:20. Obama is bringing it. Romney is flailing. Romney actually said 0% tax on interest, dividends, and capital gains. How helpful is that to the middle class?

  24. I hate when Mitt says his grandparents were American, They left the Utah Territory so grandpa Romney could keep his several wives. Once the polygamous men left Utah became a state!

  25. Don’t round ’em up, just make ’em really miserable so they’ll leave.

    • Yes, that question was certainly contrived. Security was never requested for Benghazi, as it wasn’t an embassy, it was a consulate for visas mainly.

  26. Romney’s bulldozing through these questions, talking over Obama and Crowley, and makes him look like a bully. And Romney heckled Obama. Whadda DICK.

  27. Automatic weapons are not illegal, they just require special permits. Mitt’s wrong again.

  28. In the transcript of the Rose Garden press conference, we have the following sentence:

    “No acts of terror will ever shake the resolve of this great nation, alter that character, or eclipse the light of the values that we stand for.”

    He did not even mention the inflammatory video. Romney was wrong. Crowley was right to call him on it.

  29. I know what it takes, I know what it takes, I know what it takes. He’s a fucking broken record. He knows what it takes but he doesn’t feel the need to share it with the voters.

  30. When Romney stuck with outsourcing to China and investing off shore he tells Obama that does he know where the money in his pension comes from? WTF. Why should he?

    • Not if your legislature can run all over you the way Mitt’s did. He could have stayed in Utah.

  31. “Government does not create jobs.” Government creates the presidents job you stupid fuck. Mitt is accusing President Obama of fighting dirty. Obama didn’t release the tap of you talking about the 47% you big dick.

  32. You want to tell us more about your church Willard. Feel free. We don’t have to settle but you won’t tell us how you’re going to make changes.

  33. Romney is describing himself. Mr. “born with a silverspoon in his mouth” is trying to show that he understands. I notice that everything is superficial with him. He is a shell of a person.

  34. Well if Willard wins because they believe this crap we are all going to be suffering a terminal case of buyers remorse.

  35. Axelrod said Obama heard Chris Matthews’ critique of the first debate. He didn’t have to hear it on TV, he could hear it without the TV! 😀

  36. Willard believes Fox News when they said Obama didn’t say it was an act of terror for 14 days. That’s what was wrong with Bush/Cheney. They watched Fox and only believed their own propaganda.

    • Mittens obviously thought the talking points that play with his base would pass muster nationally.

  37. Striking wsn’t it that the man who’s in his early fifties has more gray hair than the dude in his sixties.

    • Willard has had the same two-tone look since the last Ambassador station wagon rolled off the assembly line.

  38. Romney said that Obama quadrupled regulations on small businesses. Here’s what Bloomberg has found:

    Obama’s White House has approved fewer regulations than his predecessor George W. Bush at this same point in their tenures, and the estimated costs of those rules haven’t reached the annual peak set in fiscal 1992 under Bush’s father, according to government data reviewed by Bloomberg News. The average annual cost to businesses under Obama is higher than under his predecessors, the Bloomberg review shows. The increase is estimated to total as little as $100 million or as much as $4.1 billion, or at most three one-hundredths of a percent of the total economy.


    • Romney lies about deficits under Bush. Bush never included Emergency war spending, the Medicare Doc fix, or the Alternative Minimum Tax fix in any of his budgets, and Obama has from day one.

      • I can’t count the number of people I have told these same facts to over the past 4 years. It’s fun watching their eyes glaze over.

  39. OMG, my middle sister actually un-friended me.

    Well, that’s it then.

    Critters and Zoosters, you are my family now!

  40. When you have to go to the “D” list politician, like that Prick-Pataki, you’ve lost.

  41. I think Obama intentionally let the lie that he didn’t call the attack on the embassy terrorism hang in the air because he knew Mitt would use it. I wonder if they showed Candy Crowley the video so she’d be able to tell Willard he was wrong.

      • Plus Obama plays poker, chess & basketball. He knows strategy. Romney’s idea of strategy is to say whatever people want to hear to close the deal.

        • I’m sure that has worked for Mitt in the confines of the boardroom. It doesn’t work when you treat every audience as a discrete entity without regard to the fact that your contradictory positions will become obvious.

  42. CNN first results. Obama wins 46-39, and they admitted that their sample even has a larger percentage of Republicans than the national averages. This is huge.

  43. Ezra Klein said actually Bush did want to voucherize Medicare, but Obama said he didn’t. If Repubs call him on it, it only highlights something people don’t want. They lose either way.

  44. I wonder if those women in the binders were paid as much as the men that held the same job? Maybe Mitt was looking for binders full of women because he knew he could pay them less. Sort of a reverse Lilly Ledbetter.

  45. While y’all were watching the debate, you may have missed a critical piece of news: Tigers win and now are 3-0 against the Yankees.

  46. Okay, so my sister didn’t un-friend me, she just blocked me. Totally different, right? She’s got “very important stuff” coming up, so she can’t deal with me.

    Yeah, I’m flattered.

    You know what? If she can’t handle this shit, she shouldn’t start trying to handle it.

    Whatever. I’ve got plenty of sisters and dads who hate me.

    • Make her come crawling back to you. Sisterly bonding is way over rated if your sister is a bitch.

    • Yikes! You tried to distract your sister from “very important stuff”? Shame on you, I had no idea your sister was trying to negotiate a fair peace in the Middle East. Is this the fundie sister?

      • Yes. She tries to claim to be a “moderate,” but she exposed herself tonight.

        It makes me sad, but knowing where I stand is valuable.

        • It makes me sad too. I had one sister who died in 1978. We disagreed on some things, but she’d have defended my right to my own opinion to all comers. Perhaps your sister doesn’t really appreciate the value of having someone you can both love and argue with. Perhaps you threaten her insular worldview. I suspect she has no idea of the worth of what she’s willing to give up.

          • Outstanding, she’s always been able to prioritize in her life. I have never made the cut, and she has never realized it.

            The ball is in her court — which is what I’ve been saying about my youngest sister for years.

            I’m glad I have my sisters of choice.

          • I was once offered the information that a persons greatest challenge in life is to survive their families.

  47. Debate: Reader’s Digest Version:

    Mitt: I care about 100% of the people.

    Obama: 47%

    TKO: Obama.

    • Romnoid and the complex he represents care about the 100% as it relates to control.
      As in total control.

    • These people, not all, are clueless, and attention whores. The young woman who says she’s leaning towards Romney because of his success in Mass. is totally clueless. Are you fuckin kidding me? Give me five minutes with her. Christo redemptor forgive me.

      • They’ve already decided, but they won’t admit it themselves. They’re ashamed of their decision, so they deny it.

        • Maybe…yeah you’re probably right. It is just frustrating to hear that shit after 18 months of primary debates, forty thousand acres of print,

  48. Well, that was a much better debate than the first one, President Obama came out swinging, Bully/Coward Romney showed his true colors, and Candy did a pretty damn good job overall.

    Now I can sleep a little better. Goodnight, all!

  49. Can’t listen to this anymore. Must watch some Doctor Who and then sleep.

    Jeebus, I hope I’m not hungover in the morning.

  50. It’s all good, regardless of TtT and badmoodman. Just poking at you guys. 😉 Bonne nuit all…

    • For the moment, all is right with the world, nwog.
      Drift into the arms of morpheus and awakened refreshed!

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