The Watering Hole, Monday, February 11th, 2013: Fugitive From and/or For Justice?

On Sunday, February 3rd, Monica Quan and Keith Lawrence were found shot to death in a parking garage in Irvine, California. Thus began the now nationally-covered, still-ongoing saga of former LAPD officer Christopher Jordan Dorner vs the LAPD. The Los Angeles Times provides a timeline of this saga through last night, February 10th.

Christoper Jordan Dorner with Chief William Bratton (formerly NYC Police Chief)

Christoper Jordan Dorner with Chief William Bratton (formerly NYC Police Chief)

In the course of the LAPD’s “manhunt”, they have now shot or injured two white women and one white man, purportedly because they drove vehicles which “matched the description of” Dorner’s pickup truck. From the LA Times on the two women:

“As the vehicle approached the house [“of a high-ranking Los Angeles police official, which was being guarded by a group of LAPD officers”], officers opened fire, unloading a barrage of bullets into the back of the truck. When the shooting stopped, they quickly realized their mistake. The truck was not a Nissan Titan, but a Toyota Tacoma. The color wasn’t gray, but aqua blue. And it wasn’t Dorner inside the truck, but a woman and her mother delivering copies of the Los Angeles Times.”

Regarding the man who was “mistakenly” injured, the LAT says:

“David Perdue was on his way to sneak in some surfing before work Thursday morning when police flagged him down. They asked who he was and where he was headed, then sent him on his way. Seconds later, Perdue’s attorney said, a Torrance police cruiser slammed into his pickup and officers opened fire; none of the bullets struck Perdue.

His pickup, police later explained, matched the description of the one belonging to Christopher Jordan Dorner — the ex-cop who has evaded authorities after allegedly killing three and wounding two more. But the pickups were different makes and colors. And Perdue looks nothing like Dorner: He’s several inches shorter and about a hundred pounds lighter. And Perdue is white; Dorner is black.”

These stories alone make one wonder about LAPD’s “finest.” But, Christopher Jordan Dorner’s story tells a lot more.

On February 7th, Dorner published a lengthy “manifesto”, recounting several incidents where he, as an LAPD Officer, tried to report unethical behavior by other LAPD officers. In it, Dorner named names, cited BOR (Board of Review) results in which the named officers were officially “cleared”, and provided additional information regarding LAPD personnel, lawyers, etc., who he believes are involved in the cover-up and whose actions eventually led to Dorner’s termination.

Amidst Dorner’s accusations and subsequent threats against the lives of the named officers and their families, Dorner describes himself, his career, and his own personal ethics. And while the murderous tactics which he is now employing to bring attention to the corruption within the LAPD are deplorable and inexcusable, his words depict a formerly ethical patriot who, at the end of his rope, believes he has been forced to take these tactics. Here are a few excerpts:

“I’m not an aspiring rapper, I’m not a gang member, I’m not a dope dealer, I don’t have multiple babies momma’s. I am an American by choice, I am a son, I am a brother, I am a military service member, I am a man who has lost complete faith in the system, when the system betrayed, slandered, and libeled me. I lived a good life and though not a religious man I always stuck to my own personal code of ethics, ethos and always stuck to my shoreline and true North. I didn’t need the US Navy to instill Honor, Courage, and Commitment in me but I thank them for re-enforcing it. It’s in my DNA.”

“From 2/05 to 1/09 I saw some of the most vile things humans can inflict on others as a police officer in Los Angeles. Unfortunately, it wasn’t in the streets of LA. It was in the confounds of LAPD police stations and shops (cruisers). The enemy combatants in LA are not the citizens and suspects, it’s the police officers.”

“People who live in glass houses should not throw stones. How ironic that you utilize a fixed glass structure as your command HQ. You use as a luminous building to symbolize that you are transparent, have nothing to hide, or suppress when in essence, concealing, omitting, and obscuring is your forte.”

LAPD Headquarters

LAPD Headquarters

Chief Beck, this is when you need to have that come to Jesus talk with Sgt. Teresa Evans and everyone else who was involved in the conspiracy to have me terminated for doing the right thing. you also need to speak with her attorney, Rico, and his conversation with the BOR members and her confession of guilt in kicking Mr. Gettler. I’ll be waiting for a PUBLIC response at a press conference. When the truth comes out, the killing stops.

At one point, Dorner admits to severe depression, but describes it as a means for future scientific study:

“If possible, I want my brain preserved for science/research to study the effects of severe depression on an individual’s brain. Since 6/26/08 when I was relieved of duty and 1/2/09 when I was terminated I have been afflicted with severe depression. I’ve had two CT scans during my lifetime that are in my medical record at Kaiser Permanente. Both are from concussions resulting from playing football…These two CT scans should give a good baseline for my brain activity before severe depression began in late 2008.”

Dorner also has a lot to say about gun control:

“If you had a well regulated AWB [Assault Weapons Ban], this would not happen. The time is now to reinstitute a ban that will save lives. Why does any sportsman need a 30 round magazine for hunting? Why does anyone need a suppressor? Why does anyone need a AR15 rifle? This is the same small arms weapons system utilized in eradicating Al Qaeda, Taliban, and every enemy combatant since the Vietnam war. Don’t give me that crap that its not a select fire or full auto rifle like the DoD uses. That’s bullshit because troops who carry the M-4/M-16 weapon system for combat ops outside the wire rarely utilize the select fire function when in contact with enemy combatants. The use of select fire probably isn’t even 1% in combat. So in essence, the AR-15 semiautomatic rifle is the same as the M-4/M-16.”

“I can buy any firearm I want, but should I be able to purchase these class III weapons (SBR’s, and suppressors) without a background check and just a $10 notary signature on a quicken will maker program? The answer is NO. I’m not even a resident of the state i purchased them in. Lock n Load just wanted money so they allow you to purchase class III weapons with just a notarized trust, military ID. Shame on you, Lock n Load. NFA and ATF need new laws and policies that do not allow loopholes such as this. In the end, I hope that you will realize that the small arms I utilize should not be accessed with the ease that I obtained them. Who in there right mind needs a fucking silencer!!! who needs a freaking SBR AR15? No one. No more Virginia Tech, Columbine HS, Wisconsin temple, Aurora theatre, Portland malls, Tucson rally, Newtown Sandy Hook. Whether by executive order or thru a bi-partisan congress an assault weapons ban needs to be re-instituted. Period!!! Mia Farrow said it best. “Gun control is no longer debatable, it’s not a conversation, its a moral mandate.”

Personally, I cannot disagree with that. In addition, I cannot disagree with most of Dorner’s political likes and dislikes. After berating the LAPD’s lack of respect and outright racism towards President Obama, Dorner states the following (some of which has since been redacted in many media venues):

“Wayne LaPierre, President of the NRA, you’re a vile and inhumane piece of shit. You never even showed 30 seconds of empathy for the children, teachers, and families of Sandy Hook. You deflected any type of blame/responsibility and directed it toward the influence of movies and the media. You are a failure of a human being. May all of your immediate and distant family die horrific deaths in front of you.

Chris Matthews, Joe Scarborough, Pat Harvey, Brian Williams, Soledad Obrien, Wolf Blitzer, Meredith Viera, Tavis Smiley, and Anderson Cooper, keep up the great work and follow Cronkite’s lead. I hold many of you in the same regard as Tom Brokaw and the late Peter Jennings. Cooper, stop nagging and berating your guest, they’re your (guest).”

“Ellen Degeneres, continue your excellent contribution to entertaining America and bringing the human factor to entertainment. You changed the perception of your gay community and how we as Americans view the LGBT community. I congratulate you on your success and opening my eyes as a young adult, and my generation to the fact that you are know different from us other than who you choose to love. Oh, and you Prop 8 supporters, why the fuck do you care who your neighbor marries. Hypocritical pieces of shit.

Westboro Baptist Church, may you all burn slowly in a fire, not from smoke inhalation, but from the flames and only the flames.”

While any civilized person deplores Dorner’s decision to take the law into his own hands and use cold-blooded murder to make his point, I personally believe that he DOES have a point. It would be nice to think that he may surrender to authorities without further bloodshed, but I fear that those authorities would not hesitate to kill him on sight; not to mention that Dorner himself, throughout his “manifesto”, not only promises more killings, but also admits many times that he will likely not live through this ordeal.

One line in particular in Dorner’s writing struck a chord with me, that should reverberate throughout this rotting country:

“Sometimes humans feel a need to prove they are the dominant race of a species and they inadvertently take kindness for weakness from another individual. You chose wrong.”

This is our Open Thread. Your thoughts?

136 thoughts on “The Watering Hole, Monday, February 11th, 2013: Fugitive From and/or For Justice?

  1. Pope Benedict XVI Resigns

    Pope Benedict XVI is to resign at the end of this month in an unexpected development, saying he is too old to continue at the age of 85.

    He became Pope in 2005 following John Paul II’s death.

    Resignations from the papacy are not unknown, but this is the first in the modern era, which has been marked by pontiffs dying while in office.

    Well, that’s different.

  2. If or when the police (death squad) catch up to Dorner it’s a safe bet he’s going to get at the very minimum the Rodney King treatment.

  3. Dorner is a dead man walking. No way he is going to survive this. He is another example of the “violence solves problems” crowd never mind he shares some of our ideas. He shouldn’t be able to have all those high power arms in the first place. He was talking about a .50 Barrett sniper rifle, to take out armored vehicles. Hell, your society is a war zone if a civilian can own one of those.

  4. If Mr Dorner is as smart as he seems to be he will go deep to ground for a bit. His manifesto is having the same impact on LAPD as 911 had on America. They are in a full blown panic and their actions are speaking loudly in defense of his words.

    I truly hope he comes to justice alive, partly because that is the way our justice system is supposed to work but mostly because it seems that the LAPD doesn’t want it to be so. This reminds me of the Gauntlet so much.

  5. EV, yes, our society is now a war zone, and I truly wish that Dorner had not willingly decided to join that war. There HAD to have been another way for him to get his message across without outright murderous violence. There are many among us who have felt the same outrage at how our country has changed, and how law enforcement, and notoriously the LAPD, seem to have gotten out of control since the officers who beat the living shit out of Rodney King got away with it. But the vast majority of us have fought back with words, not violence.

    I think that the lack of ethics in our law enforcement has, in at least a minor way, contributed to the gun nuts’ argument that they have the right to as many guns as they feel they need to “protect their homes and their families.” If they can’t trust the police, they feel that they have to take on the role of the police.

    Unfortunately, Dorner has sealed his own fate by his wanton actions. Like Hoodathunk, I can only hope that he is brought to justice, and not gunned down by those who have every interest in silencing him forever. But even if he is brought in alive, I have this Jack Ruby-like image that he would not live to stand trial.

  6. Btw, I was at the Northridge, CA Lowe’s store about one hour before the police descended upon the place and locked it down. Damn, I could have used a new car too.

  7. It’s sad that this corruption in the LAPD has pushed Dorner over the edge. He is a one man army taking on the LAPD and he is sacrificing his life to expose the corruption within the department.

    • It is the corruption of the LAPD that allowed OJ Simpson walk after murdering his wife. Can’t really blame a jury for not believing anything they said.

  8. This (Dorner) is what happens when the rule of law breaks down. He tried it the right way. He blew the whistle. It is easier to villify the whistle-blower than get rid of corruption.

    With bankers now too big to jail, with the ruling elite above the law, where the law fails to balance the scales, where the only alternative left is violence, violence will break out. Dorner is not the first whistle-blower to “go postal.” He won’t be the last. But, hey, why regulate gun sales? He does make a point there.

    Those who blow the whistle face death. The death of their career. The death of long-standing friendships with co-workers. The loss of income puts a strain on family relationships. The downward spiral begins. All because of some inner drive to do the right thing.

    I know. Been there, done that.

  9. The second shooting incident in Torrance is a fascinating read. The cops pulled over a white guy in a black pickup headed for the beach and let him go. Minutes later his truck was rammed and shot up. Thankfully the driver wasn’t shot but was injured in the ramming and his truck was totaled.

    I want to see how that one gets explained.

  10. Universal Health Care.

    I would suspect in his case, it’s not the government abandoning him personally. He didn’t get to retirement (which is typically 20 years) so he forgoes benefits.

    SEAL who shot bin Laden speaks out | The Lookout – Yahoo! News

    Plus, he said, “my health care for me and my family stopped. I asked if there was some transition from my Tricare to Blue Cross Blue Shield. They said no. You’re out of the service, your coverage is over. Thanks for your 16 years. Go f— yourself.”

  11. Fox & Friends Weekend used the manhunt for alleged cop-killer Christopher Dorner as an excuse to play a thinly-veiled race card against Rep. Maxine Waters and other African Americans. The pretext was a discussion about how Dorner has garnered some fans on Facebook and Twitter as a result of his manifesto alleging racism and corruption in the Los Angeles Police Department, his former employer. But instead of doing any real work and reporting any real facts about the state of community relations with the LAPD or even relaying what the fans are saying, the three hosts dismissed any concerns about police brutality and racism and suggested that race-crazed African Americans are using the case to justify violence. For good measure, host Tucker Carlson baselessly suggested that Congresswoman Maxine Waters is part of Dorner’s fan base.

  12. the Connecticut effect:

    Though the NRA had been tight-lipped about how the Newtown tragedy would affect their efforts, lobbyist Bob Welch, who represents the Wisconsin NRA group, was anything but during their yearly meeting.

    “We have a strong agenda coming up for next year, but of course a lot of that’s going to be delayed as the ‘Connecticut effect’ has to go through the process,” Welch, a former Republican state senator, told the Wisconsin’s NRA State Association during the legislative update. The group’s president, Jeff Nass, had previously mentioned that they would push the Republican-controlled legislature to pass a Stand Your Ground law, the likes of which became famous following the shooting death of Trayvon Martin in Florida.

    Welch went on to bemoan the fact that the public’s focus on Newtown was preventing the NRA from pushing such bills through the legislature, but his remarks soon turned to braggadocio about the NRA’s legislative influence. He relayed an anecdote about how, following the Connecticut shooting, a pro-gun Democrat in the legislature had mentioned his desire to close the gun show loophole. “And I said [to him], ‘no, we’re not going to do that,” Welch boasted. “And so far, nothing’s happened on that.”

  13. So I have an evil mind at times but I can’t help but wonder where southern CA would be right now if Dorner had last been reported driving a late model luxury sedan with tinted windows.

  14. Energy Secretary Steven Chu Responds to Onion Article About His Wild Party Night

    “I just want everyone to know that my decision not to serve a second term as Energy Secretary has absolutely nothing to do with the allegations made in this week’s edition of the Onion. While I’m not going to confirm or deny the charges specifically, I will say that clean, renewable solar power is a growing source of U.S. jobs and is becoming more and more affordable, so it’s no surprise that lots of Americans are falling in love with solar.”

  15. On Feb. 11, 1913, Mary Harris “Mother” Jones was arrested while leading a protest of conditions in West Virginia mines. She was 83 years old at the time.

    ‎Mother Jones, honored today by the political magazine that bears her name, lived in a time when women were not allowed to vote. “You don’t need a vote to raise hell,” she said about that. “You need convictions and a voice.” She perhaps is best known for her saying, “Pray for the dead, and fight like hell for the living.”

    “Typically clad in a black dress, her face framed by a lace collar and black hat, the barely five-foot tall Mother Jones was a fearless fighter for workers’ rights—once labeled “the most dangerous woman in America” by a U.S. district attorney. Mary Harris “Mother” Jones rose to prominence as a fiery orator and fearless organizer for the Mine Workers during the first two decades of the 20th century.”

  16. “Yesterday while driving down the street I saw a woman on a bicycle in obvious distress, and as a result in serious danger of being hit by a car.
    “I stopped to help her and she confirmed she was indeed very ill but couldn’t articulate what was wrong. Then a fire truck was driving by and I waved them down and the woman went into hysterics at the prospect of the cost of an ambulance ride and hospital visit….

  17. The Westminster Kennel Club Dog Show begins today. Part One airs tonight at 8 PM ET on CNBC. Part Two airs tomorrow night at 8 PM ET on USA Network. People who like this sort of thing will find this the sort of thing they like.

  18. Celebrating the 4th of July 2013:

    The Man In The Moon
    An American Story
    From the Moon’s Perspective

    Yes it is a Beckian world
    if one can stomach…here’s the ‘grand idea’ from the oaf himself
    (warning it is a link to ‘The Blaze’)

  19. Our stupid Governor, transvaginal Bob, has directed community colleges to limit the hours of part time workers to 29 to avoid providing health insurance.

    • And that, my friends, is how the GOoPers intend to prove that “government doesn’t work”. Once they get elected they do everything in their power to screw things up while they blame it on democrats who might have been dead for a few decades. The really ironic part is that they don’t have to work even an hour to “earn” their government managed health insurance.

  20. If they do let Ted Nugent in tomorrow they need to do a complete cavity search. Especially that big, gaping whole between his two ears.

    • They shouldn’t let him in. He has actually threatened the President and threatened armed insurrection against the lawful government of this country. We have the right to speak our minds but words have consequences. They shouldn’t even let him in D.C. without Secret Service chaperones since it’s impossible to predict when he will carry out his threat to get himself killed or thrown in jail. The POS deserves no more respect than a dollop of dog poo on my shoes. In fact, were I to accidentally step on Mr. Nugent, I would probably burn said shoes. Dog poo can be washed off simply enough but no one could possibly predict what kind of strange germs grow on that freak or what measures would be necessary to sterilize any surfaces he might contaminate.

      • I should probably admit that, if I actually met the guy and lost control and kicked the crap out of him, I would have my boots bronzed rather than simply destroying them.

  21. Alan Grayson Returns Emboldened

    Grayson said the House historian informed him the victory, a 43-point swing from his 2010 loss, was the biggest comeback in history of the House.

    Extenuating circumstances aided his drastic swing, but he’s still in a pretty safe seat from here on.

  22. I am so proud of what we have here. And I mean the quality of our posts. I just came back from doing what I never did before. Writing to an ombudsman of a world renowned newspaper. My place to go for nutwingery among he mainstream media is Jennifer Rubin’s Right Turn” on the WaPo website. Today she’s clinched it. Beneath lowest bar, honestly. Every single writer here does a far better job and that includes our commenters. I wish I was rich and could pay you all, after all Rubin gets actually paid for her drivel.

    Here’s what I wrote:


    I am a regular reader and regular commenter (European_Elitist) on the blogs of The Washington Post. The WaPo has replaced the NYT as my first stop for News and Opinion for a while now. I appreciate the fact that there is a tangible effort to have both sides of the picture and I do respect differing points of view a lot.

    I am only human, however, and this time Mrs Rubin has crossed a line. Her column “Obama makes the pope’s resignation all about him”

    ( )

    does not hold up to any standard that I want to accept from a renowned publication. I chuckled when she obsessed about Chuck Hagel in one non-sequitur after the other for the umpteenth time. I took all her obvious cut and copy writing in good humor. I am a blogger myself ( admittedly liberal, and surely not an aspiring professional, but a happy amateur ) and I know we’re not all cut out for a Pulitzer. Today’s piece, however, is the most pathetic, low quality, limbaughesk, political mud wrestling I’ve read in a long time. I would not tolerate such a low standard on our own small 1’000 views per day blog. So, with all due respect, I kindly ask you for a replacement of Mrs Rubin as a conservative blogger. She is an embarrassment.

    Thank you very much for your attention.
    Kind regards,


    • I don’t like that place. New comments make the page scroll down automatically, jerking the page away as you try to read other comments.

    • Well stated, EV!
      By no stretch was Obama’s ‘thank you and good luck’ statement to the pope all about the President.
      (Rubin runs the typical Repub’s game of absolutely detesting the Black man in the White House. Doing any and everything to tear-down the President is what seems to take up most of her day)

    • Thank you, EV. I’ll take that as a compliment.

      Ms. Rubin is indeed a nasty piece of work. Kinda like Dana Loesch when she takes her meds. And she is a sterling example of what’s wrong with American media. The corporate entities that control the “news” need conflict to sell copy and airtime. So? They will cover both sides of any issue even if there is only one side that’s grounded in reality. Hacks like Rubin and professional dim bulb David Brooks are the best their side has to offer and neither of them would have passed journalism 101 waaaay back when I was in school.

      • It is totally meant to be a compliment. I appreciate your comments a lot. I don’t answer all that much lately, I am going into day 16 of a migraine and trust the doctor to have no clue, so I lie low mostly, but I really read all comments if I can make it.

    • Yuk. I don’t barf all that often these days, but I think I may have just fouled Jennifer Rubin’s shoes. At least.

      I have to wonder: is she REALLY that hollow, or is she just able (and willing) to convince her followers that she is? She writes:

      Since becoming Pope in 2005, Pope Benedict XVI has served the Church honorably, particularly through his work promoting charity across the globe.

      She said nothing about his protection of pedophilia in the Catholic Priesthood. Wonder why?

        • Heh. Makes me wish I was an “old” and “white man” . . .

          Oh shit. Wait one . . . I am! Bote o’ dem!

          If ‘they’ make me pope, do I really have to wear that silly cap? And that robe?

          Or, can a non-theist in blue jeans and a black tee really be Da Pope? Hmmm. Now THAT is a decent concept!

          “I do hereby nominate moi to be the next pope! White puffs from the chimney, please! 😯

        • He was in the Hitler Youth and that doesn’t even count to me as Nazi. Not at that time in Bavaria. He had other failings, many, but he was a kid then and only went where all his peers were. Catholics, btw. were more resilient against Nazism than Protestants. I could write a post in that, it was part of my early University work on the early stages of Nazism. I stopped studying the history of this after I helped myself to serious trauma and sleepless nights by reading too many horrible eyewitness accounts. I have a problem dealing with the topic ever since.

  23. Ron Paul Whines to United Nations Agency For Help

    Former Rep. Ron Paul (R-TX), who once filed legislation to end the United States’ participation in the United Nations, is now turning to the international organization for help in obtaining two domain names, the Texas Tribune reported Monday.

    The former presidential candidate and congressman filed a complaint Friday with the World Intellectual Property Organization, a United Nations agency, against the owners of and so he could gain control of the domains, according to a blog post published on the site.

    Kinda sucks when those free market solutions bite you in the ass, eh doc?

    • Joe’s employment has been terminated through no voluntary act of his own…

      Oh, really, Joe…if you’d governed with your constituents in mind, perhaps you’d still be employed…never mind. The MUCH better candidate won that seat…Hurray Tammy

      • That line really does stick out, doesn’t it? Is he blaming the “librul media” “Unfair tactics” by his opponent? Or how about; “I wouldn’t look like such a creep if the rest of the country hadn’t installed a black guy in the White House”?

        I might even go so far as to say that any “man” who depends on winning an election in order to house, feed, and clothe his children should not have procreated in the first place. I would might even go so far as to say that I would love to be the presiding judge but I have a sneaking suspicion that ol’ Joe doesn’t bother to appear at court proceedings in person. Still. It would be fun to tell his lawyer to “drag your client into court or I’ll dispatch the police to drag him in here”.

      • I know any number of women, who are almost as old as I am, who would be happy to sign up and I would gladly hold him still if their aim isn’t what it was 20 years ago. I also know a few women who are much younger than I am who would probably be even more enthusiastic for an opportunity to cock punch the SOB. I would still offer to hold him still because I’m a gentleman. I would offer myself as proxy to cock punch him for Margaret and Helen but I think they would be more than capable of pulling it off on their own.

  24. Nugent: ‘I Will Be Taking On Media Orgy’ After SOTU

    “We know that the president will have the state of the union stacked and jammed with props, children, and victims of violent crime,” [Ted] Nugent said. “And my friends wanted me to attend to counter that the way that I do: with facts, statistics and common sense and logic and a celebration of self-evident truths. So I will be taking on the media orgy following the State of the Union Address.”

    Nugent said the media does not realize he is a “force to be reckoned with” and therefore he will “dominate them.”

    Nugent managed, perhaps inadvertently, to thereby perfectly describe the impact of, on any of “them”, a really great beer fart. Why, I wonder, am I not surprised by his … ummm … ‘eloquence’?

  25. Hola, y’all! I’m back in Portland now. The coast was AWESOME, as usual. I’ll be driving back home tomorrow, and will then get ready to move into my new apartment. In Idaho. Boo.

    It is a great apartment though. 🙂

    • Fuckin’ Geraldo is nothing more than a POS who believes the tripe churned out by his publicist. And? He was one of the first, and most highly paid, on-air “talents” who legitimized gossip as “news”. He has done as much damage to rational debate as any of the freaks who followed him. I hate him as much, if not more, than I hate the overtly Reich-wing freaks because they just built on his example and he became the first one to lend FAUX”News” a mantle of misplaced legitimacy. It is entirely possible that TV news would still aspire to the standards of Walter Cronkite if Fuckin’ Geraldo had never been born and our country and world would be better for it.

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