The Watering Hole, Saturday, April 20, 2013 – Do Guns Really Make Us Safer?

The important thing to remember is that nobody gets hurt, so watch the whole thing.

The National Rifle Association (or NAMBLA) likes to claim that “the only thing that stops a bad guy with a gun is a good guy with a gun.” The kindest thing I can say about that is that it is demonstrably untrue. But since I don’t feel like being kind where the gun nuts are concerned I’ll call it what it is – a flat out bullshit lie. Patricia Maisch didn’t have a gun, but she didn’t need one to stop the Tucson, AZ, shooter (why glamorize him by using his name?) from killing more people. The two men who tackled the gunman didn’t have guns, either, nor did they need them. The fourth one, Joseph Zamudio, did have a gun and he almost used it – on one of the two guys holding the gunman down! Fortunately, he hesitated and realized he was mistaken, then rushed over to hold down the gunman’s legs. Being “a good guy with a gun” was completely irrelevant in this case, as his gun had nothing to do with the restraint or capture of the gunman.

You can speculate all you want about why the gun nuts think having a gun makes everyone safer. It doesn’t. To say that the solution to the problem of too much gun violence (besides admitting there is one) is to have more guns is like saying the solution to the problem of too many car accidents is to have more cars. Wrong! Just as the solution to having too many car accidents is fewer cars and more better-trained car owners, so it is with guns – fewer guns and more better-trained gun owners. Besides, why do these people insist that guns are the ONLY answer to the problem? If someone had come up behind the Tucson gunman and hit him upside the head with a two-by-four, would the gun nuts think he did it wrong?

I agree that the world is a dangerous place but, unlike conservatives, I believe it can be made better if we stop dividing ourselves by how we’re different from each other, and reach out to each other through what we have in common. And that is that we are all human beings on this planet. Please remember that.

This is our daily open thread. Feel free to talk about guns, gun nuts, nuts in general (I like almonds in my chocolate) or anything else you want. Just don’t shoot anybody.

90 thoughts on “The Watering Hole, Saturday, April 20, 2013 – Do Guns Really Make Us Safer?

  1. Guns do not make us safer. The modern version is he comes in with an AK-47, and starts spraying. Many are dead in seconds. The rest pull out their own semi-automatic weapons and spray him and their own co-workers in the cross fire.

  2. After a week of bomber overload, I was hoping for an UP that covered everything else that went on.
    The fertilizer plant explosion deserves at least some coverage.

  3. Michael Waltrip drove the Sandy Hook car at Daytona in February with the number 26.
    This week at Kansas City, his team’s cars sport a modified paint scheme to honor the Boston Marathon victims. The car numbers on the doors are painted to match a marathon runner’s bib number, right down to the safety pins.
    Roush – Fenway Racing, half owned by a group that also owns the Red Sox and Fenway Park, will donate $100 for every lap led by one of their cars.

  4. Live from Wingnuttistan:

    THE SUN IS NOT A STAR!!

    How many of you have heard this before: “Our Sun is just another star. In fact, it is an average star – one of 100 billion – in the Milky Way galaxy”. What if it isn’t just another star? What if what we know about the Sun does NOT apply to all the stars we see in the night sky? Would it throw the big bang theory into irreconcilable doubt? I believe it would.

    The goal of this paper is to prove, using only the Bible, that the Sun is NOT a star. There are four major reasons from the Bible why I believe the Sun is not a star, and therefore the assumptions made about stars, their creation, their life, their death, their burn rate, the composition – basically every assumption we make about stars – are faulty. These faulty assumptions completely throw into doubt the theory of the evolution of the universe and the big bang theory.

  5. You only THOUGHT it was over – Glenn Beck threatens to expose the REAL Boston Marathon bomber Monday unless the government does it first. END IT OBAMA OR I WILL:

  6. Louie Gohmert Reveals the Real Lesson of the Boston Bombing

    Rep. Louie Gohmert (R-TX) stopped by The Blaze today to weigh in on the Boston Marathon bombing and the on-going hunt for the suspect at-large. During the discussion, he stated that Osama bin Laden had set up terrorist training camps in Chechnya for the purpose of targeting America and so all Chechens who have come to this country need to be investigated and deported “if there is any violence in their background.”

    The lesson that this entire saga is sending to potential terrorists, Gohmert said, is that “this administration will not eliminate people who are here and have even shown violence in this country, that if you can just get into this country – and shoot, the President may even give you amnesty, just get here however you can and then you may be able to shut down an entire city also and then do what Osama bin Laden charged Chechnyans (sic) to do many years ago and that is train so you can go kill Americans and other westerners”

    • Meanwhile, 46 Senators just let it be known that terrorists can still buy guns at gun shows without background checks.

  7. Gohmert: Boston Lockdown Shows Foolishness of Gun Control

    During his interview on The Blaze this afternoon on the Boston bombing, Rep. Louie Gohmert said we are living in one of those times that “the Bible talks about when right becomes wrong and wrong becomes right and people do not understand things that are spiritually discerned.”

    But, he added, what is needed now is simple common sense … like not trying to pass gun control legislation:

    “What hit me this morning when I heard the residents there around Boston and in the area where they thought someone might be were ordered to stay in their homes, businesses were ordered closed, public transportation was ordered closed. Let me ask you, if you’re sitting in your home and you know there are only two possibilities for people coming, one is law enforcement and the other is somebody who has already killed Americans and continues to do so, how many rounds do you want to be limited to in your magazine as you sit in your chair and wait?”

    • How many rounds do you need to kill one person? If you need more than ten, then maybe you shouldn’t have a gun in the first place.

      Any way of asking it is how many of your neighbors do you need to kill beside the one bad guy knocking at your door?

    • I have a feeling that the SUnday shows and much “news” for a while will go something like…

      “It was a good week for conservatives and guns. It turns out the Mooslims are out to get us and the gubmint closed down a whole city because the citizens weren’t armed.”

      • To which I would argue back (and you know they won’t), that a single Muslim bombing a city because of his religious beliefs (if that’s really why he did it) doesn’t mean all Muslims are out to get us any more than one Christian bombing abortion clinics because of his religious beliefs means all Christians are out to get us. And the reason they closed down a whole major city was because unlike conservatives, liberals care if innocent people get hurt.

        But they can go ahead and try to say it. Doesn’t make it a valid argument.

    • Except that no citizen needed to protect themselves nor were there any good guys with guns out in the streets gunning for the suspect. Mostly because they didn’t want to get shot.

      • Gee, you’d a thunk some folks in Boston have loaded themselves with all kinds of assault weapons jus’ so they can take to the streets and take out the bad guys. Why weren’t those guys roamin’ the streets. After all, we know we can’t trust the cops to protect us. We should’a had us some OK Corral action with guns a-blazin’ at everything that mooves, especially if it has dark skin.

        Boston Tea Party Patriots, I am sorely disappointed in you all. You let us all down by cowerin’ in your homes with your assault rifles and your multiple round clips instead of goin’ out in the open to join in the man-hunt fer them ferrin terrorists. Instead of manin’up, you relied on government employees to keep you and your loved ones safe, and you all know how incompetent the government is. And, after all, police are nothing but Socialized Security. And we all know we need to Privatize Socialized Security.

        I need another beer…..

    • Say, Louie-Louie, why don’t you see about investigating the murderers that own the fertilizer plant that blew up in your state. Oh wait, they just avoided government oversight which is a plus in your ilks’ addled brains.

  8. Fischer’s Simple Immigration Policy: Ban Anyone Who Believes in the Quran

    On his radio broadcast today, Bryan Fischer renewed his call for a ban on immigration from majority Muslim nations, claiming that our immigration policy should simply consist of the question “do you believe that the Quran is the holy book of God”?

    Anyone who answers “yes” is banned from entering the country

    OK, I’m done, my visit to Wingnuttistan is over, at least for the rest of the day. Time to take a walk, maybe figure out how the hell to relocate to a civilized country (assuming there might still be one out there somewhere).

    • our immigration policy should simply consist of the question, β€œdo you believe that the Quran is the holy book of God”?
      Anyone who answers β€œyes” is banned from entering the country

      Even a feebled-minded Quran reader: “No.”

      Immigration: “Ok, let ’em in.”

  9. CNN Quits Breaking News Becomes CNN Classic

    In a sweeping format change that marks the end of an era for the nation’s first cable news outlet, CNN announced today that it would no longer air breaking news and would instead re-run news stories of the past “that we know we got right”.

    The rebranded network, to dΓ©but nationwide on Monday, will be called “CNN Classic”.

    • Whereas I think Maureen Dowd if full of shit on this one. “The American President” is a work of fiction, and to fault Obama for not behaving like the fictional president is naive. When she’s sitting in the Oval Office, she can criticize how previous presidents did their jobs. The simple fact is that Republicans have historically ignored the will of the people and have single-mindedly made obstructing Obama their one and only legislative goal. Frankly, I’m not surprised the background checks amendment failed. There was never any reason to believe republicans would go for it, even if they said they would.

  10. I liked tonight’s Doctor Who a little better than the Russian sub one last week. There were so many shots fired, I kept expecting Captain Ramius to come out and tell them, “Be careful what you shoot at. Most things in here don’t react too well to bullets.” πŸ˜€

    • I looked at my TV listings, but it was only a partial listing. Question: If Dr. Who’s on first, What’s on second?

  11. Hi all, Just got in from a day trip to Yosemite. Still early spring there, falls going, but not great guns yet. Only a few Dogwoods in bloom. But excellent weather and a nice get away from it all, if only for a short while. Hope you enjoyed my snarks above.

  12. This asshole is our State Senator. I’ve argued with him in person. Looks like I’ll have to do it again the next time he does a Senate on Your Corner event. He lives near me, too.

    http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/04/20/greg-ball-torture_n_3122524.html?utm_hp_ref=politics

  13. The London Marathon started earlier today, with a moment of silence for the victims of the Boston bombing six days ago. The Bahrain Grand Prix starts in an hour, but marathon coverage means no live F1 for the Brits today. I like to watch both online and on domestic TV because the BBC has no commercials. Plus I enjoy Eddie Jordan and David Coulthard as announcers.
    Maybe Webber can have a good start for a change.

    • Webber is clear in 6th, with Massa ahead on the harder tires. Not bad. I think Massa and Sutil touched and Sutil had a flat tire.

    • Webber is now right behind Vettel after the first stops. Massa didn’t stay out significantly longer on the harder tires, presumably because of the front wing damage, Alonso’s DRS element is broken, so he’s toast. Rosberg falling back after starting from pole. Only the cars that haven’t yet stopped ahead of Vettel and Webber now. This may come down to a two stop vs. a three stop strategy.

  14. I’m glad there was this clarification. I heard on the radio that the older bombing brother was down on the ground with guns pointed sat him. Then they said he was dead, without giving details. I thought the police had shot him. (They said he had the laser sights all over his body.) Now we know. His brother drove over his prone body and dragged it down the street

    http://www.slate.com/blogs/the_slatest/2013/04/20/boston_bombing_suspect_dzhokar_tsarnaev_may_have_killed_his_brother.html

    Well, that’s the Boston PD’s story and they’re sticking with it. But I’ll accept it as an explanation until refuting evidence is presented.

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