Watering Hole: Tuesday, August 13, 2013 – The Big Ass Mountain

I don’t have much to say today except this, imagine a National Park under the control of a Libertarian/Tea Party/John Birch Society controlled government.

Here’s some photos from the “Big Ass Mountain” in Washington.

“Big Ass Mountain” as seen from Paradise.


Fields of wild flowers located at the Big Ass Mountain.



Big Ass Mountain glacial flow that is decreasing every year.


Streams flowing from the Big Ass Mountain.



And a  Big Ass Mountain Hoary Marmot (chewing on a piece of chipboard).  This fell off my SIL’s coffee cup and as he reached down to pick it up, this little critter quickly grabbed it and began to eat it.  There was no arguing with the marmot.


My guess is that our national parks would be sold to the highest bidder(s) and the oil and gas industry would start their “drill, baby, drill” work.

This is our Open Thread.  Speak Up!

EXTRA:  Libertarians would love this idea.

92 thoughts on “Watering Hole: Tuesday, August 13, 2013 – The Big Ass Mountain

  1. I would like to say that there are Conservative Libertarians (like the Pauls) and Liberal Libertarians (like Nelson Mandela, Mahatma Gandhi, and though as important in the grand scheme of things, me.) It’s the RW Libertarians who think corporations are people who shouldn’t be taxed at all. Us LW Libertarians aren’t like that at all.

    Just sayin’. 🙂

    Beautiful pictures, Cats.

    • i’m afraid our community may become a statistic as well. the oil companies are pulling from our aquafir. we may move to costa rica sooner than we thought.

      • we live about 80 miles from Midland Odessa, in the SE corner of New Mexico. so all that shit that happens in Texas splatters over on us once in a while.

        nothing worse than a Texan…

        • Oh right Carlsbad/Roswell – seen any little green men thumbing lifts on the highway? :mrgreen:

          Used to tool through that way about 20 years ago between Victoria and the NM/Colorado Rockies for trips. Some good road trips heading out that.

          Pity the aquifers don’t respect political boundaries. At least NM can restrict the oil companies by law. I think.

    • Market will sort that out. If too many people die from thirst, that means less customers, so demand goes down, and production will go down. It’s all good. Except for the people having to die from thirst part. But that’s a market economy for you.

  2. This man is my hero. I nominate him for sainthood.

    The idea of beating the banks at their own game may seem like a rich joke, but Dmitry Agarkov, a 42-year-old Russian man, may have managed it. Unhappy with the terms of an unsolicited credit card offer he received from online bank Tinkoff Credit Systems, Agarkov scanned the document, wrote in his own terms and sent it through. The bank approved the contract without reading the amended fine print, unwittingly agreeing to a 0 percent interest rate, unlimited credit and no fees, as well as a stipulation that the bank pay steep fines for changing or canceling the contract.
    Agarkov used the card for two years, but the bank ultimately canceled it and sued Agarkov for $1,363. The bank said he owed them charges, interest and late-payment fees. A court ruled that, because of the no-fee, no-interest stipulation Agarkov had written in, he owed only his unpaid $575 balance. Now Agarkov is suing the bank for $727,000 for not honoring the contract’s terms, and the bank is hollering fraud. “They signed the documents without looking. They said what usually their borrowers say in court: ‘We have not read it,’” Agarkov’s lawyer said. The shoe’s on the other foot now, eh?

  3. Photos of Mt Rainier – quite something isn’t it? Took a tour of the other base camp lodge a week or so ago – Sunrise Lodge – has arguably better trails off along the foothills and lower slopes.

    Meanwhile, this, just in from Captain Obvious (actually Ricky Gervais twitter feed – one of 6 that Turtle has decided to follow (no offense Wayne, but you post the good stuff here anyway 😉 )

    • nice comment:

      Katie Shapland • an hour ago −
      Most atheists are brought up in one religion or another. They are just as brainwashed in childhood as everyone else. Overcoming such brainwashing/child abuse requires critical thinking… whether one agrees with their conclusions or not. It takes very few brain cells to simply believe what you’re told to believe, without evidence, and contrary to all scientific knowledge; rather more to critically examine what you’ve been told to believe and to reject it as, well, let’s say… superstitious claptrap.

      • Been there done that, allathat. Became a non-theist right about the time science caught up with and went roaring past the Christian mythology into which I’d been immersed as a little feller. My sainted mother was a very kind and loving Christian, the type which appears to be rather rare these days. My dad was a non-theist; went to church only because he knew my mother wanted him to come with her, found a way out whenever he could manage. Last time I was in any sort of church for any purpose other than photographing very old Spanish Missions was in the summer of 1995 when I attended my uncle’s funeral. Have no plans to ever darken a church door again. If I have one wish worth granting, it’s that ALL religion disappears once and for all and forever. Shouldn’t take but maybe one or two significant mutations in the human genome to raise the average intelligence an order of magnitude above that of Wingnuttistan, after which . . . Nirvana. Or whatever world it is that, say, cats, dogs, wolves, butterflies, cockroaches, etc. already live in; that world where real is real, where no false “creator” is out there lurking somewhere in the shadows, or for that matter, even imagined, even needed.

        Propaganda, be it religious, political, corporate . . . is well worth ignoring, if not banning completely.

    • As a teenager, I was perplexed by the claim of most religions to he the one, exclusive, true faith. Growing up in the Catholic Church meant agreeing to every tenet, no matter how ridiculous it might seem.
      It defies one to be intelligent, and stay within those boundaries.

      • It is an epiphany (scuse the borrowed term) of the most profound sort to meet and discuss beliefs with someone of a different faith – especially one that mirrors your own’s view that everyone *else* is going to helendammnayshun4evah! because they eat pork or whatever.

        The various sects of Christianity do a bang up job of making each look ridiculous – Jesus comes back to Missouri to preach to the Lakota? You what? Barmy that is, even after you swallow all the Jesus-tripe. I wonder if the Jews get pissed off that the Christians helped their religion jump the shark, because the Christians ought to be pissed off at the Mormons for helping theirs over the shark for sure.

        Cue the late, great Christopher Hitchens nails them all with simple logic

    • No offense taken although if you do follow me on The Twitter, you can see the other things I retweet that I don’t post here. And I don’t post all of it here. In turn, you may find OTHER people you’d like to follow.

      The choice is yours. 🙂

  4. I shudder to think of what would happen to the National Parks in the Tea Bircher world – they would never have been created and set aside to begin with – Ted Roosevelt was indeed a Hercules among small, greedy men in his time. Where are the new Hercules?

    There would be Scouring of the Shire if the Tea Birchers ever get what they want.

  5. And, you’d be charged for entry, parking, food (no food may be brought in) would be available from greasy kiosks selling burgers, fries, hotdogs, fries, cotton candy, fries and sodas. No water would be available.
    Then you’d be required to take a guided tour, at an exhorbitant rate per minute.
    As you leave, you’d be required to fill out a survey, and your exit fee would be based on how much fun you stated you had. (Hint: complaints may result in higher exit fees, up to impounding of your automobile…)
    Welcome to MarketingWorldNationalPark!

    • Any vehicles with “liberal” or “Democratic” stickers, signs, etc. would be immediately impounded.

      And the owners of said vehicle would be arrested for tresspassing.

    • I believe that would happen. Since we are seniors, we paid a one time $10.00 fee to obtain our senior card which allows us to go to enter any National Park free of charge. The age for this card is 62 and over.

      • I have one of those, and have gotten my ten bucks back hundreds of times, mostly via half-price campground fees in National Forests. The good ol’ Golden Age Passport! Never leave home without it!

  6. Canada Train Blast: Lac-Megantic Rail Firm Sanctioned

    Canada has suspended the operating licence of the rail firm involved in last month’s Quebec fuel train disaster, officials say.

    The Canadian Transportation Agency (CTA) says the company did not have enough third-party liability insurance.

    The CTA’s order covers both Montreal, Maine and Atlantic Railway (MM&A) and its Canadian subsidiary.

    No question it was planned to be under-insured, as well as very limited in assets. Most of the rolling stock in the rail business is leased. The Reich-wing would have people believe that requiring adequate liability insurance is job-killing over regulation. Tell that to the survivors in West, Texas and Lac-Megantic.

    The price of insuring rail freight lines should go up for any hazardous cargo. A lot.

    • “The price of insuring rail freight lines should go up for any hazardous cargo. A lot.”

      Here here. Especially if said hazardous cargo goes anywhere near higher density population. Although that could cause major changes in transport of hazardous goods.

  7. Illinois Pipeline Blast Sends Flames 90 Metres Into Air

    A fuel pipeline beneath a western Illinois cornfield has exploded, sending flames 90 metres into the sky and prompting dozens of evacuations, fire officials said.

    The massive Whiteside County fire was reported around 11:15 p.m. Monday after residents heard a blast, said Scott Melton, the assistant fire chief in the community of Erie. No one was injured, but the towering flames could be seen for kilometres.

    Well, now they know where the weak spot was at the pressure they decided to attempt in that pipeline. At least innocent people weren’t hurt or had their property destroyed. This time.

  8. Are there Teatards in Russia too?

    In an interview with World Football Insider, Russia’s World Cup chief chose some interesting words to defend the legislation, which bans “propaganda of nontraditional sexual relations.”

    Among other things, Alexey Sorokin put gays in the same category as Nazis.

    “The Olympics and World Cup are not a stage for various views …,” he told the Internet publication. “Not for Nazis, not for any other ways of life.”

    Sorokin was also quoted as saying: “Would you like a World Cup where naked people are running around displaying their homosexuality? The answer to that is quite obvious.”

      • ““Would you like a World Cup where naked people are running around displaying their homosexuality?”

        It sure would give a new meaning to the soccer term, header.

    • Twould be at least equal to the spectacle of fully clothed heterosexuals competing in athletic events. In business formal attire.
      How rucking fidiculous.

  9. Ted Cruz’s dad, as quoted in the DesMoines Register:
    “Socialism requires that government becomes your god,” he said. “That’s why they have to destroy the concept of God. They have to destroy all loyalties except loyalty to government. That’s what’s behind homosexual marriage.”
    That apple didn’t fall too far from the crazy tree.

  10. Here’s what the Rude Pundit wrote on May 15, 2006, about NSA surveillance of Americans’ phone records (all the links are probably fucked up since, well, it’s from the scary past):

    Hand Over Your Phone Records For the Good of America:
    Here’s what the Rude Pundit wants to see: he wants Republican Senators Bill Frist, Jon Kyl, Jeff Sessions and more to have a press conference, big fuckin’ press conference, with your CNNMSNBCFox in attendance, and he wants to see those sour-faced white men hold up some papers. Yeah, the Rude Pundit wants Bill Frist to announce, “These are our phone records for our home phones, our office phones, and our cell phones, personal and business. They contain every phone number called from those phones. We are handing them over, personally, to the White House, and we trust this administration to use these records fairly, with no fear of misuse now or in the future.”

    The goddamnedest pathetic and funny sight this weekend was watching Republicans proudly state that they could give a shit less if an unchecked, secretive White House, at will, with no law or oversight, collected the phone records of millions of Americans so that they can justify the budget of the intelligence services for another Osama-less fiscal year. See, without offering any kind of tangible result from the program, we are supposed to believe that all the NSA is doing is looking for call patterns that’ll prevent, oh, let’s say, the ubiquitous dirty bomb from blowing up, because, you know, terrorists who are smart enough to acquire nuclear material and create that kind of weapon are too stupid to suspect they might oughta be careful about who they call. (Actually, that should be the mantra of many of these spying programs: “The NSA: We’re Going After the Dumb Ones.”)

    • The difference between a LW and RW…. the LW will disagree with both the Obama position on the NSA programs (“give up the power? really, no way mudderfuggers, we decide who the bad dudes are – trust us”) and that it all started under the Chimpy-Vader presidency which was also a bad thing.

      The RWNJ? Bush? Who? – it’s all Obama and my liberties.

      Note the appearance of Michael Hayden in there from 2006 – the architect of this under the Emperor Ming the Merciless at the DHS, now being invited on the news shows (yes, you Schieffer you ring licking toady) to talk up the program, smear Snowden for blowing the whistle, all the while drawing a huge paycheck with afore-mentioned Ming the Merciless’ ‘Chertoff Institue for Generating and then Cashing in on Fear’ …… its right in front of your face…. every day America!

  11. THE MATH

    500,000 Active gas wells in the US X 8 million gallons of water per fracking X 18 times a well can be fracked

    72 trillion gallons of water and 360 billion gallons of chemicals needed to run our current gas wells.

    • The Republicans see America as “The Executive” and “The Labor”. About 99% of the country they view as “The Labor.”

      Of course, “The Labor” have no class — they are little more than unwashed animals.

  12. Corporate America at its best. First Papa John forces his employees to take shorter hours rather than have to give them health insurance under Obamacare (at a cost of a few cents per pizza)

    Now Papa ‘its all mine you fooking peasants – look at my big fook-off moat around my house’ Schlatter doesn’t want to tell you what his ‘better ingredients’ are.

    There are so many I’ve got on my ‘first against the wall when the revolution comes’ I’ve forgotten where this fascist is on the list. I’ll never buy his bloody sh*t though I tell you that. Costco pizza!

  13. He was famous before?

    Edward Snowden: ‘I’m famously paranoid’ – Yahoo! News

    Edward Snowden says he knew he could trust Laura Poitras, a documentary filmmaker working for the Guardian newspaper, to shoot the interview unmasking him as the source of the National Security Agency leaks because she was “more suspicious of me than I was of her, and I’m famously paranoid.”Snowden’s comments came during an encrypted interview conducted by The New York Times Magazine for an upcoming cover story on Poitras and Glenn Greenwald, the journalists who first broke the story on the NSA spy program.

  14. Since the numbers aren’t to their liking, the wing nuts (check the comments of the link) are clinging to the “but Obama’s vacations cost more” lie.


    Obama’s vacations and golfing by the numbers – Yahoo! News

    As of Aug. 13, 2013, Obama is on his 15th vacation trip, covering all or part of 96 days total. He’s spending this vacation in Martha’s Vineyard with his family. At the same point in his presidency — Aug. 13, 2005 — George W. Bush had made 51 visits to his ranch in tiny Crawford, Texas, totaling all or part of 335 days. (Note: Bush sometimes used the property to host world leaders.)

    • I beg to differ. You can’t count all the time Bush spent away from Washington while he and Cheney were waiting for Al Qaeda to give them their ‘Pearl Harbor-type event’. That was clearly foreign policy downtime.

  15. So, one argument from the wing nuts is that the 130 or so years of temperature data isn’t really enough to conclude anything on a planet nearly 6,000 years old. Yet, if you want to DISprove climate change, a decade’s worth of data is more than enough.

    What Global Warming? 2012 Data Confirms Earth In Cooling Trend

    (CNSNews.com) – The National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration recently released its “State of the Climate in 2012” report, which states that “worldwide, 2012 was among the 10 warmest years on record.”
    But the report “fails to mention [2012] was one of the coolest of the decade, and thus confirms the cooling trend,” according to an analysis by climate blogger Pierre Gosselin.

    • But, but…sixteen years ago it was just as hot, so we haven’t been getting warmer after all. 😯

      What the hell is Gosselin’s first graph supposed to show? What does the scale along the left side even represent?

      But if 2012 is only the 8th or 9th warmest and we are told again and again that almost all the warmest years occurred since 2000, then it can only mean that 2012 was one of the coolest so far this century.

      His theory makes no sense, except to a denier. So what if 2012 was a cooler year than seven other years since 2000? One year doesn’t make a ‘trend’.

      • Assume you can round off any average temp to the nearest integer, or natural number (since, in this case, they’re all positive), which for purposes of this experiment is sufficient. The set of natural numbers is well-ordered, which means that for any non-empty subset of this set, there is one element that is less than all the others. (The Well-Ordered Theorem can be proven if you take Mathematical Induction as an axiom. Interestingly, if you take Well-Orderedness as an axiom, you can prove Mathematical Induction. You need one to prove the other, but you can start with either one as an axiom. But I digress.) That means that for all the average annual temperatures for this century, one of them has to be less than all the others. So there is nothing inconsistent about saying that 2012 was one of the warmest years on record while at the same time being one of the coolest this century, because (I believe) ten of the ten warmest years on record have been this century (or close to it), a fact I wouldn’t doubt the author ignored.

        It’s easy to misuse statistics. As of about five months ago, Bill Gates was worth $67 billion. If Bill Gates were standing in a soup kitchen with three nuns and sixty-three homeless, penniless people, the average net worth of everyone in that room would be $1 billion, but it’s still Bill Gates and 66 other poor people.

  16. Cory Booker is winning the New Jersey Senate primary with 60% of the vote with about half the precincts already reporting.

        • I know you wouldn’t want Steve Lonegan to win TtT. Baby steps, long term strategy, and I will bitch about it with you at my side. But maybe Booker can be reasoned with. That is the choice in NJ. Better Booker than a teabagger.

          • when the owners ot this country pay both sides, we get a couple of votes on issues which don’t matter a heck of a lot to them and business as usual everywhere else. The time to reason with booker has already passed.

            • So reasoning is passe? Purity above all else! Sit at home, and count on your rightousness to get us through this mess? REVOLUTION, GOLD, POT!!!!!! I’m yanking your chain TyT,
              but respectfully disagree.

            • booker’s just another paid vote – ive no enthusiasm for electing these people,

  17. It’s a shame that Kal Penn is buying into Mike Bloomberg’s lies and crap

    Read this NYCLU Myths and Facts sheet about S-Q-F.

    • Maybe Kal believes with his, so far, limited success in Hollywood, he’s beyond profiling. So Kal, wear a hoody, and strut your shit down 32nd ave. and get back to us jackoff. You’re a brown man Kal, in America. Get a grip on reality.

  18. Thanks for the “early” congratulations, my natal time comes at 4:20 PM. I didn’t know that until 1970 when I was working as a refrigeration mechanic. I was replacing a compressor on a refrigerator, a 3 hour job in a woman’s kitchen on a Saturday morning. The woman was an astrologer. She went into another room after I gave her my birthday to do what ever astrologers do and them she came back and asked for my time of birth. I didn’t know but realized mom would know and I called her and got the time. A little while later the woman came back into the kitchen saying she wished she hadn’t asked to do my chart. I asked why? She informed me that within a month something would happen that would change my life, and not for the better. I laughed it off.

    Two weeks later while out on a job I had to call in to the office. The dispatcher informed me of an emergency phone call she received for me. It was my neighbor who called to inform me that my wife had moved out that morning. That something did change my life into a living hell. I quit my job and joined the Longshoremen’s union. When I went back for my final paycheck the man who hired me offered me a 50 cent/hour raise. I explained I was no longer capable of dealing with customers and their problems. Then he informed me my wife had called him telling him he should fire me. To this day I never understood the vindictiveness my wife displayed. She got worse with her 2nd and 3rd husbands, both who were men of means compared to me.

    Tonight I’m maudlin, as in “weakly and effusively sentimental.” At 4:20 PM I expect to be maudlin as in “drunk enough to be emotionally silly.”

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