The Watering Hole, Wednesday, 11/13/13: Stopping Bad Guys With Guns.

The only way to stop a bad guy with a gun is a good guy with a gun. Recently someone (a good guy?) fired off some celebratory shots at a birthday party in a house crowded with teenagers. Someone else (another good guy) took it upon himself to open fire in response. Result: 2 dead and more than a dozen injured. By a good guy with a gun.

With so many guns per capita in the U.S. you’d think good guy vigilanteism would stop most of the mass killings. But, no. A survey of mass murders over the years reveals a surprising number of “bad guys with guns” kill themselves.

Two good guys with guns kill each other. oops.

2013: A bad guy with a gun opens fire at a Naval Yard, kills a dozen people before he is killed.

2012: Sandy Hook Elementary; 27 killed; gunman commits suicide.

2012: Aurora, Colorado; 12 killed; gunman dressed in head-to-toe protective gear is taken into custody.

2011: Seal Beach, California; 8 killed; gunman wearing body armor is arrested without incident trying to leave the scene.

2010: Manchester, Connecticut; 8 killed; gunman commited suicide.

2010: Appomattox, Virginia; 8 killed; gunman surrenders to police the next morning.

2009: A bad guy with a gun kills 13 people at Ft. Hood. Lots of good guys with guns. Bad guy not shot, is sentenced to death. Hmmmm….the death penalty didn’t stop this guy.

2009: Binghamton, New York; 13 killed; gunman commits suicide.

2009: Alamaba; 10 killed; gunman commits suicide.

2009; Carthage, North Carolina; 8 killed; gunman convicted of second degree murder, sentenced to 141 to 179 years in prison.

2007: Virginia Tech. 32 killed; gunman commits suicide.

2007: Omaha Nebraska; 8 killed; gunman commits suicide.

2005: Red Lake High School, Minnesota; 8 killed; gunman commits suicide.

1999: Columbine High School; 13 killed; gunmen commit suicide.

1999: Atlanta, Georgia; 12 killed; gunman commited suicide.

1993: San Francisco; 8 killed; gunman commits suicide.

1991: Killeen, Texas; 23 killed; gunman commits suicide.

1989: Louisville, Kentucky; 8 killed; gunman commtis suicide.

1984: San Ysidro, California, McDonnalds; 21 killed; Police sharpshooter kills gunman.

1984: Manley Hot Springs, Alaska; 8 killed; gunman is killed in a shootout with police.

1982: Miami Florida; 8 killed; gunman shot in the back by a witness who pursued him.

1982: Wilkes-Barre, Pennsylvania; 13 Killed; gunman committed to mental institution.

1973: New Orleans; 9 killed; police snipers kill gunman.

1966: University of Texas; 18 killed; police officers killed gunman.

So there we have it. Of the 20 deadliest shootings in U.S. history from 1965 to now, only once has a good guy with a gun taken out a bad guy with a gun (not counting the police, who are supposed to be the good guys with guns).

What’s the solution? Some throw up their hands in despair, there’s too many guns out there, there’s no way to stop it. Others point to Australia, that decided after one horrific incident that enough was enough, and had a massive gun riddance campaign. Others wrap themselves in the flag and flack jackets and openly brandish their firearms, threatening to use them if anyone dares impinge upon their “Second Amendment Rights.”

We’re coming up on the anniversary of Sandy Hook. Nothing has changed. Not enough kids have been slaughtered yet for Americans to say “enough is enough.”

OPEN THREAD

49 thoughts on “The Watering Hole, Wednesday, 11/13/13: Stopping Bad Guys With Guns.

  1. More suspected and confirmed cases of thyroid cancer diagnosed in Fukushima children

    …The latest figures show 12 people per 100,000 who were aged 18 or younger at the time of the accident developing thyroid cancer.

    That compares with an average of 1.7 people per 100,000 in the general population between the ages of 15 and 19 who contracted the cancer in 2007, according to statistics taken in four prefectures, including nearby Miyagi…

  2. Guns don’t kill people, bullets kill people. So: how about a gigantically heavy tax on gunpowder (any and all bullet propellants regardless of composition), also on bullets themselves, on cartridges, on firing caps (or whatever they’re called — the propellant igniters)? Maybe set it up so it costs, say, ten million bucks for one usable cartridge/bullet thingee? Also, how about a fine of, say, a million bucks (or ten years in the can) for even a non-fatal discharge of even a single cartridge/bullet of any description?

    I don’t see any constitutional problems — the right to keep and bear arms has not been infringed, only the ‘right’ to kill something is ‘infringed’ (as well it should be) and unless I’ve missed it, the constitution says nothing about a guaranteed right to kill anyone/anything with a gun.

    If we think it’s impossible to rid the country of guns, maybe we could make them useless for anything other than wall art (or in a few years, maybe plowshares)?

    • Gun insurance. Every gun must have a $1million strict liability policy. If a bullet from that gun kills someone, the victim’s estate gets a million bucks. (with perhaps an exception for self-inflicted gunshot wounds).

      Insurance companies can figure out how much a policy like that would cost. Free market capitalism at its macbre best.

      • Yes, that could work, ‘cept I think I’d make it $100 million. Of course, not every gun owner would buy the policy, so maybe the cost of the policy should be paid by the gun manufacturer? Raise the price of even a Saturday Night Special to what, $50,000 instead of the usual $50 (or whatever is the cost today)?

        Capitalism works really well to keep people from being able to buy health care, or housing, or even food. Great idea for Capitalism to keep people from buying guns as well!

    • I think it was Chris Rock who said bullets should cost $5000 each, which makes total sense to me. Gun nuts have a right to their guns, but the Constitution doesn’t say anything about ammo. 😉

  3. Daily Kos discussion of Washington Post columnist Richard Cohen’s obvious racism; Cohen wrote:

    Today’s GOP is not racist, as Harry Belafonte alleged about the tea party, but it is deeply troubled — about the expansion of government, about immigration, about secularism, about the mainstreaming of what used to be the avant-garde. People with conventional views must repress a gag reflex when considering the mayor-elect of New York — a white man married to a black woman and with two biracial children. (Should I mention that Bill de Blasio’s wife, Chirlane McCray, used to be a lesbian?) This family represents the cultural changes that have enveloped parts — but not all — of America. To cultural conservatives, this doesn’t look like their country at all.

    All I can add is that the greatest thing that could EVER happen to this country would be for it to PERMANENTLY cease IN EVERY POSSIBLE WAY! looking “like their country . . .”. Only then will there be ANY possibility for human progress. Here. In America.

  4. She’s a ‘firebrand’, she’s a ‘darling’ (why yes she is), she’s one of the few people in this country Wall Street is afraid of….

    She’s my crush, Beth Warren

    “Warren needs to hire a full-time taster, and avoid any small plane flights with enemies like what she’s making. Sounds paranoid, but i’m not so sure anymore”

    – she needs to watch her back or she could be Wellstoned…

    • “The U.N. deems all Israeli settlements on land occupied during the war of June 1967 to be illegal.”

      Not something you will here on *any* US news outlet anywhere, anytime. Israel was for the UN, before they were against the UN and before they were again for the UN…..

      If you want to lump countries together that invade their neighbours regulalry and ignore UN resolutions on a regular basis, then you have to put Saddam’s Iraq and Israel in the same bed.

      • And let’s not forget that Gaza is nearly a moral equivalent of a concentration camp. The war cry of the foundation of Israel was “never again”. The rest of the world just seemed to ignore the next bit which states; “unless we’re the perpetrators”.

  5. Creationists: Thorns On Plants Debunk Evolution

    In an Institute for Creation Research radio bulletin, Dr. John Morris claimed that thorns on plants are proof that evolution is nothing but a myth. He told co-host Chris O’Brien that Genesis 3 includes a curse on plants as “thorns and thistles are a direct result of Adam’s sin.”

    He claims on a certain ryegrass, a certain fungus sometimes “grows unchecked” and “chokes out the plant” because “a particular gene in the fungus was turned off through mutation.”

    “Mutations are thought to be the main mechanism by which evolution occurs but every mutation we see is harmful, not helpful as evolution requires,” Morris argued. “Face it Chris, evolution just doesn’t work, it doesn’t fit the facts and it certainly doesn’t agree with the ‘back to Genesis’ truth of creation.”

    http://www.rightwingwatch.org/content/creationists-thorns-plants-debunk-evolution

  6. My apologies if this has been covered but I’ve been pretty busy lately and might have missed something. Am I the last person on earth to find out that the head of CBS News is a FOXbot? Could anything be more damning than hiring a news director away from FAUX”News”? I guess that the rot at CBS is coming from the top down. From the linked article:

    “But here’s another angle that’s gotten little attention so far, and I’ll do more on it later: Few seem to realize that a former Fox News exec became the head of the CBS News in February 2011. He is David Rhodes. His bio at CBS declares:

    He directs network newsgathering for all CBS News platforms including television, CBSNews.com, and CBS News Radio.

    With CBS News Chairman Jeff Fager, Rhodes has led a division-wide rejuvenation of the storied CBS News brand, emphasizing the Original Reporting of top broadcast journalists around the world. A rededication to the news division’s hard-news roots runs through every broadcast.

    Pardon my chuckle over that last sentence.

    The bio also reveals:

    Rhodes began his career as a Production Assistant at the newly-launched Fox News Channel in 1996, where he later became Vice President of News. At the network he managed coverage of three presidential elections, wars in Afghanistan and Iraq, hurricanes including Katrina, and was the channel’s Assignment Manager on the news desk the morning of September 11, 2001.”

    http://www.thenation.com/blog/177082/60-minutes-benghazi-scandal-fox-news-connection

    • That reveals a great deal as to the lies CBS was/is spreading with impunity.
      Rhodes still hast the Faux mantra/motto/value running around in that empty head of his:
      “We stand by the lie.”

      • Indeed. I can’t think of a single thing a “news” organization can do, short of resurrecting Herr Goebbels, that is more damning than hiring talent from FAUX”News”.

      • You drive with the radio off and the windows down so you can hear tires on the road!

        We’re having ‘earthquake weather’: warm, semi-overcast, and still. The East Bay has had three or four small quakes since yesterday.

        • Well? I have used the yellow lines to guide me home in both fog and snow. This includes one instance where we were coming home from duck hunting and got caught, in the middle of nowhere, by a blizzard. I went about 5 miles holding the door open so I could see said line while my buddy looked out for approaching headlights. A 20 minute drive took 4 1/2 hours. The worst bit was when we were forced to stop for an accident on a bridge and the wind blew my car and boat off to the shoulder.

    • And that is something that science deniers will never understand. It is far more exciting to find out we were wrong than it is to confirm we were right. If someone actually managed to disprove evolution or global warming? The scientists that did so would be honored along with Newton and Einstein.

  7. Check out the photos of this building at the link.

    1970’s brutalism architecture at its finest (or worst)?

    Seems like something you’d see in a Terry Gilliam movie.

    The Ponte City, Johannesburg | Story of Bing

    When we had first arrived in Johannesburg, one of buildings we had spotted was the iconic Ponte City. There’s no way one can drive about in the city and not notice this tall residential building. With a striking bright red advertisement by one of the largest communications provider, Vodacom, this towering cylinder building is the most prominent structure of the skyline of Johannesburg.

  8. And here is the really, really, disturbing part of the human emission of CO2. As someone who has kept aquariums for over 50 years; I have a keen understanding about how disastrous a miniscule change in water chemistry can be. I gave up on trying to maintain light and chemical levels in a narrow enough range to maintain corals and other delicate species and just let “nuisance algae” keep my tank healthy enough for fish. Do the rightwhiners really think that China will keep selling us cheap corn syrup if the Western Pacific basin stops producing enough protein?

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-24904143#sa-ns_mchannel=rss&ns_source=PublicRSS20-sa the Western Pacific basin stops producing enough protein?

    • The RWNJs are not forward thinking and place the entire mess in ‘god’s hands’.
      Never take responsibility is the call of the Repugnant Party.

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