The Watering Hole, Saturday, July 26, 2014: This Week In Crazy Right Wing Libertarian Talk

Cindy Lake wants to be a commissioner in District G of Clark County, NV. And she wants to because…it’s YOUR money. Good one, Cindy Lake. A more compelling argument I’ve yet to hear. Especially from you. Cindy Lake believes she has earned an important endorsement, that of Dr. Ron Paul.

​”Cindy Lake has worked for years as a citizen to fight for limited government and more personal liberties. She has also been a great supporter of mine. I am proud to endorse Cindy Lake for the Clark County Commission in District G.”

Vote for Cindy Lake because she supports me, way over here in Texas. Now who could argue with that? Besides me? Look, Ron Paul is a Conservative Libertarian, while I’m a Liberal Libertarian. We’re as different as Milton Friedman and Mohandas K. Gandhi. Ron Paul often has the right final opinions, but often for the wrong reasons. He rightly opposed the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan, but not because they were based on lies and misinformation, but because he opposes using the military anywhere else in the world. He opposes giving foreign aide to Israel (which usually takes the form of loans that are forgiven, so they can buy military weapons to kill innocent children; don’t get me started on what’s going on in Gaza, because this post is about insanity in America), but that’s because he opposes foreign aid to everybody. He’s sometimes right, but for the wrong reasons. So having him endorse you is not necessarily as good a thing as you might think.

But does that alone earn her a spot in This Week In Crazy Right Wing Libertarian Talk? No, of course not. It’s her stance on fluoride and chemtrails that does. Cindy Lake says on her website that she will “work to lower water rates and improve water quality.” What she doesn’t say is what that means. She is one of those folks who believes that the fluoridation of our water is a huge government conspiracy to…you know, I’m not quite sure what the motivation would be to poison all of us systematically, but that’s what they claim the government is doing.

Don’t let the scaremongers scare you. There’s good reason to doubt them, and little reason to believe them. Just because you won’t accept evidence that your crazy theory is false doesn’t mean you’re right. And the whole nonsense with chemtrails is a good illustration of that. The problem with trying to argue against the Great Chemtrail Conspiracy Theory is that it’s about a secret government plot, so naturally there would be no proof that they’re doing it. Which makes it perfect fodder for a conspiracy theorist like Cindy Lake. But chemtrails are nothing more than ordinary condensation trails, not unlike the cloud of breath you exhale on a cold day. I ridicule the idea that the federal government is spraying chemicals on us from these high-flying planes because what would be the point of doing that? From so high up, there’s no way they can be sure that the people being targeted are the ones getting sprayed. The wind could easily push anything being sprayed twenty miles away and poison, or whatever they were trying to do, the wrong population of people. It’s an extremely unreliable way of conducting any kind of experiment. And the idea that it still might be happening because it’s theoretically possible that they could do this makes for a ludicrous proof. Just because nobody can prove it’s not happening doesn’t constitute proof that it is happening. And falling back on the “government is hiding all the evidence”-excuse does not mean you have a persuasive argument, either. There’s a very perfectly rational explanation for why there’s no proof that the government is spraying us from 30,000 feet – it isn’t really happening. And the worst thing any Democracy can do is elect people who believe this nonsense to public office. They should be getting treated by the government, not put in it.

This is our daily open thread. Feel free to talk about chemtrails, fluoridation, your precious bodily fluids, or anything else you wish to discuss.

48 thoughts on “The Watering Hole, Saturday, July 26, 2014: This Week In Crazy Right Wing Libertarian Talk

  1. So, my first opportunity, to get a direct comparison between my $500 a month Silver Obamacare BC/BS of Alabama plan, and my employer-based BC/BS of Illinois plan, happened this morning. I just refilled my prescriptions, all four are generics.

    Obamacare – $24.91
    Employer – $32.71

    The employer plan costs me $44.60 every two-week check, or $96.63 a month average.

      • I don’t qualify for much of a subsidy. Alabama didn’t take the Medicaid expansion, like a lot of the red states, but that rate was on the federal exchange. I only had to pay it for May and June, before my employer plan kicked in.

        My Cobra policy that I had in 2009 to 2011 was $450 a month, but it was a much better plan.

  2. An organization called ‘Kids in Cars’ is working to get the government to require automakers to develop warning systems that remind parents their kids are in the backseat, so they don’t walk away and forget them.


    • This could open up a new realm in the smart phone app department.
      What will they call it?
      Kiddie Krush?
      Angry Turds?
      Car/Pet Bawlers?

    • Short of putting an implant in either your child (unlikely) or your dog (maybe), how would they know it’s your child left in the car as opposed to your dog?

      I suppose a signal could go off if there is a seat belt buckled in an occupied seat. That assumes parents are buckling their kids in. If they’re not, the warning system should be for the authorities to come rescue that kid from its parents.

      I’m not so libertarian that I think the govt shouldn’t protect kids from bad parents, or that kids are the property of their parents.

      • Honestly I don’t think implants are all that far away, people or pets, and it won’t be the government doing it.
        All in the name of Carparent Personhood and the Almighty Dollar.

  3. In re government ‘conspiracies’, about all I can say is that if ever there should happen to be a government conspiracy to rid the country of wingnuts (by whichever means, all options on the table), I’ll support it, even contribute five bucks.

  4. I don’t think a long term conspiracy is even possible, unless it only involves a very few people. Someone always talks.

          • It is beautiful!
            In the middle of berry season here, I’m on overload. Raspberry, blueberry, loganberry, boysenberry and of course (snicker) MarionBerry… plain old blackberries are considered an invasive specie… srsly.
            It’s very funny watching the cedar waxwings in the blueberries, they manage to get 3 or 4 of the huge globes into their crops before flying off, their heads hanging low with the weight.

            • Our berry season has ended (except for Marion, but we don’t hear much from him lately). I miss the blueberries already. Aren’t you supposed to be picking and selling berries rather than enjoying watching the birds eat them?

            • I’m careful to maintain clear boundaries regarding division of labor here on the farm. From time to time the owner says she’s going to write up a “job description” for my position, I just smile and the subject gets dropped.

  5. [Cindy Lake says on her website that she will “work to lower water rates and improve water quality.”]
    The work on lowering water rates is well under way. Look at Lake Mead, Lake Foul and all the mountain reservoirs in California. Lowest rates since they were built.
    As far as improving water quality, this would suggest Cindy Lake is going to take on the fracking industry…
    Cindy Lake will be drying up shortly.

    • Probably considers herself an ‘expert’ since her last name is Lake.

      Cindy Lake will be drying up shortly.


  6. No need for some expensive and secret government program.
    Fox News and Consumer Capitalism are doing quite well poisoning society, and the populace even pays for it themselves!

  7. Ukrainian military forces have begun a campaign to take back the eastern separatist region of Donetsk, according to multiple reports on Saturday.

    Troops are pushing against pro-Russian separatist groups that have taken control of the regional capital for months, and which western leaders say are being backed by Moscow.

    Reports indicate that Ukrainian forces have gained momentum in the push and on Saturday were concentrated on the town of Horlivka, north of the regional capital of Donetsk. From that city of about 300,000 people, the army reportedly eyes a clear path towards Donetsk.

  8. “An organization called ‘Kids in Cars’ is working to get the government to require automakers to develop warning systems that remind parents their kids are in the backseat, so they don’t walk away and forget them.”

    IMHO this organization is barking up the wrong tree. The auto industry is having a hard enough time making cars that don’t blow up, keep running or come to a stop when the driver wants them to and shouldn’t be tasked with this responsibility.

    I feel this is the responsibility of the public and commercial establishments where people park to do business at.
    -Wal-Mart greeters can simply add “Did you forget your kids/pets/shopping bags in the car?
    -Grocery stores could announce the same query in their sales pitches over the store PA systems, with the notice that your “rewards card points” will not be honored for 30 days.
    -When you punch in at work a prerecorded announcement will state you’ll be docked an hour for every 15 minutes your child/pet/elderly relative has been left unattended.
    -Surveillance cameras on parking meters will monitor each space for movement inside vehicles, and emit loud bawling and/or barking alarms if it records you walking away after putting money in the meter.
    -Gun shops could have a sign by the door which states “The last person who left their kids in the car here received a used magnum clip of .40 caliber hollow points.”

    • How many times have people locked their keys in their car, despite the obnoxious pinging sound? The government doesn’t need to pass laws on this.

      We need to teach people to get into the habit of leaving themselves a visual cue, like a stuffed bear sitting on top of their briefcase or purse — or putting their damn phone in the back seat.

        • My comment was all very tongue in cheek… people don’t “forget” their kids are in the car, it’s just the excuse they throw out when caught taking a gamble on dashing in to do the weeks grocery shopping or having a couple drinks with some other single parent after work. Or worse…
          I hear “Oh, I forgot…” all the time, it’s probably the most common excuse for having made something else more important. Besides being a lame excuse, it’s also a neuro-linguistic reinforcement for forgetfulness. Repeatedly using the phrase enables the behavior.
          Over time, and not all that long either, I have substituted the phrase “I am remembering..” (to do something I need to do, or take with me). Not only does it bring into the present the thought or action needed, it reinforces memory. It works. Saying “I forgot” is going back into the past, reinforcing that past action, applying it to the moment at hand and projecting forgetfulness onto the future.
          Try it, next time you remember something. It’s like telling the truth, once you start doing it it becomes habit. 🙂

        • That’s what I do too, Wayne. It works really well.

          Having thought about it for a while, and assuming that there are more children being left in cars than ever before — not that we’re just hearing about it more — I think fatigue and distraction are a large part of the problem. Not talking to their young children is another part of the problem, but to a lesser degree.

          People are working harder than ever, most likely giving their employers A LOT of free hours, and they see all around them the evidence of disposable workers, unpaid bills, foreclosed homes, etc. This contributes to a constant level stress and fatigue, which leads to worry and distraction. Pile on top of that any deviation from routine, and it’s easy to see how forgetting a quiet child is possible.

          The other part of the problem — not talking to pre-verbal children — is one in which I’ve noticed an increase over the last several years. Social and economic status don’t seem to factor much in this problem, as far as I’ve seen. Parents will just push their kids around in a stroller or grocery basket, completely ignoring anything coming out of their child(ren): Talking, questions, crying, babbling, screaming — whatever it is just doesn’t seem to register AT ALL. I talked to my men (in adult-speak) from the minute they were born, and I know my friends used to do this as well. How else are kids supposed to learn what language sounds like, and know that their parents actually hear them (aka trust)?

          So there’s dad, driving to work on a summer day, having been asked to drop the baby off at daycare, because mom is taking the older child to the dentist. It doesn’t occur to him to actually interact with the baby, since it can’t talk anyway, and leaving himself a visual cue has never even occurred to him. It so happens that the baby is quiet that morning, and dad, being worried about “the big meeting” and how he’s going to pay the bills this month, that he just drives to work as usual, completely forgetting that the baby is in the back seat, strapped into a car seat, where it will die in agony within a few hours. I’m surprised it doesn’t happen more often.

          Of course, the god-damned phones are another issue, but I hardly need to go into it in-depth.

          • I suppose it is possible to forget that one has a child with them, and never having gone through the process I’m not very qualified to make any assumptions on the matter.
            You have hit a whole bunch of nails squarely Zooey, the frenetic pace of modern life leads to many opportunities for forgetting all kinds of things. Add to this the perceived need to inform everyone in your address app at all times your current whereabouts, social status and present state of mental health and it’s a zoo. Pardon the pun.

            #oh, hey everyone, it’s 5:54 pacific daylight @savings time and if i go now i can get a pizza and maybe a few @chuckles with the semi-good looking youngish single mom who works there on #Saturdays and even though i’m an old guy she thinks i might be a better deal than the #guy she had the kid with… anybody know where i left my hat? i have to @wear a hat cause she doesn’t know i’m bald… or maybe she does… Oh gawd what am i gonna do if she does know but thinks i think she doesn’t know… #oh gawd….

          • OTOH, that couple recently investigated for the death of their infant left in a car on a hot day seemed to have given it some thought. There’s evidence both of them did searches on their computers for how long a baby can survive in a car on a hot day.

  9. Driftglass on Andrew Sullivan

    What Mr. Sullivan has never come to terms with — and will never come to terms with — is the clear, damning and irrefutable lineage of American Conservatism. The fact that the eggs which Reagan’s Conservatism and Nixon’s Southern Strategy laid in our body politic hatched, and all beasts that are now stalking the land and freaking out poor, academic, Beltway True Conservative fops like Mr. Sullivan are the result.

    And the reason those beasts survived to adulthood is because, all along the way, people like Sullivan nursed them. Helped them find their legs. Gave them intellectual cover as they grew to monstrous maturity. And assisted them in building an impregnable Reality Denial grid fueled by hippie punching.

    And now he is shocked and horrified that what Liberals have warned him about all along has turned out to be true.

    • An apt description of professional dim bulb David Brooks as well. I don’t think he’s really evil; he just worships evil and he’s too dim of a bulb to realize it. Plus; his adolescent crush on Raygun distorts any information that actually reaches the buried thought centers of his brain.

  10. Republican Bizarro World Strikes Again

    Fertilizer Makers Put Blame for West Blast on City

    Two fertilizer companies sued following the massive explosion in West last year that killed 15 people are claiming the small town is partly to blame.

    El Dorado Chemical Co. and CF Industries contend in court filings that West failed to properly train first responders and had lax protocols in place to battle the April 2013 blast.

    The Waco Tribune-Herald ( ) reports that motions filed in state court in Waco seek to designate the city of West as a “responsible third party” in lawsuits filed against the companies.

    It’s difficult to train responders to confront a danger that isn’t supposed to exist.

  11. Bush Administration Lawsuit Hearing Scheduled for Sept. 11th

    If all goes well, the announcement of a start date to the Bush Administration trial could be just six weeks away.

    Last summer, Inder Comar, Esq. filed a lawsuit against the Bush Administration on behalf of Iraqi refugee plaintiff Sundus Shaker Saleh. It is a noble attempt to hold the Bush Administration accountable for war crimes and a case that Quiet Mike has been following from the beginning.

    Earlier this year, the Department of Justice, who is defending the six Bush Administration officials, responded to the lawsuit by requesting that the case be dismissed. The Bush tribe is claiming that the planning of the war occurred within the scope of their employment and therefore they have immunity.

    At this point, I don’t care if prosecuting the Bush Administration takes down Obama too, as long as the war crimes are judged as such.

    The term ‘judicial estoppel’ sent me to the Google. What an interesting principle. Why, that could keep the Supreme Court from invalidating Obamacare.

  12. I just finished watching ‘The Sixties: The British Invasion’ on CNN, and I was reminded of this quote of John Lennon:
    “Christianity will go. It will vanish and shrink. I needn’t argue about that; I’m right and I’ll be proved right. We’re more popular than Jesus now; I don’t know which will go first—rock ‘n’ roll or Christianity. Jesus was all right but his disciples were thick and ordinary. It’s them twisting it that ruins it for me.”

    As John Fugelsang says about Jesus: “I love the guy, but a lot of the fan clubs really freak me out.”

    So far, we still have Christianity, and rock and roll. Rev. Dr. William Barber’s Moral Mondays may keep Christ around for a while yet, and I don’t see rock and roll going away anytime soon either.

  13. Star Wars’ James Earl Jones And Carrie Fisher Only Recently Met For The First Time

    Both Carrie Fisher and James Earl Jones are true legends of the Star Wars franchise. The former, of course, played the beautiful and heroic Princess Leia in the original sci-fi franchise, while the latter lent his deep, booming voice to the dark, foreboding presence of Darth Vader. Because one was on the set while the other was doing all his work in a recording booth, however, the two never actually got to meet… that is, until they both guest starred on an episode of The Big Bang Theory.

    Earlier this morning, the writing staff of the CBS sitcom was on-stage at San Diego Comic-Con, and while discussing the Season 7 episode “The Convention Conundrum” and the cameos made by both Fisher and Jones, showrunner Steve Motaro revealed an interesting new bit of Star Wars trivia. According to the writer, the two actors’ time on set was actually the first time that James Earl Jones and Carrie Fisher had actually met. What made the story really great, however, was Fisher’s reaction to seeing her co-star: she raised her arms in the air and called out, “Daddy!”

    I laughed so much at this, I thought I was about to wet myself. 😀

    • On the first film, Jones said he did a day’s work and got paid a day’s wages. It’s too bad our local independent grocer went out of business. I used to see Jones there once in a while and enjoyed chatting with him.

        • I never actually spoke to JEJ, but I was on line one or two people behind him at the register one time when he got shorted on his change. He was counting his change as he started to walk away, and in the meantime the cashier, who had her back to him, started on the next person’s groceries. JEJ waited patiently while the cashier chatted with the customer, but I got her attention and said ‘I think Mr. Jones has a question.’

          It was kinda weird to see him buying bread and toilet paper just like everyone else. Although at the time he WAS driving a Hummer, not very common here in Pawling.

          • The closest I ever got to Hollywood was Harry Towns. He retired here, and I met him in a court hallway because we both had cars vandalized/burgled by the same crooks. Still he was famous enough for my folks to point him out every time he was on a show we were watching.

    • The officers tried to catch up but the Mercury eluded them and last was seen heading north on Broadway from 18th Street.

      No doubt the police are singing:

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