The Watering Hole, Monday, September 8th, 2014: Huh?

I guess I’m a glutton for punishment, but over the weekend I was looking at the TP thread about Dick Duck Dynasty’s Phil Robertson’s recent appearance (apparently as a religious/foreign policy expert?) on Sean Hannity’s RWNJ lovefest, er, ‘news program.’ Robertson was asked about the situation with ISIS, or, more correctly, ISIL. (The full transcript, if you can stomach it, is here.) Here’s the pertinent excerpt of Robertson’s response:

“In this case, you either have to convert them which I think would be next to impossible. I’m not giving up on them but I’m just saying either convert them or kill them, one or the other…I think converting them, maybe has that time come and gone… [I’d] much rather have a bible study with all of them and show them the error of their ways and point them to Jesus Christ…however if it’s a gun fight and that’s what they’re looking for, me personally I am prepared for either one.”

At the TP thread, after reading way too many comments (including this gem: “The next attack in U.S. the only people that will Truly stand against them are Christians”)   expressing the idea that ISIL is coming to a neighborhood near you soon – or they’re already here – and we’ll all be beheaded in our beds, so as a good christian nation we should just kill them all, this started:

Dennis Terry ·
“If the liberals had these murderous animals coming into their house, they would do just as Phil suggested, and so would I. We ARE our brother’s keeper, and we should stand in the gap for the innocent and protect them from the murderous bullies that vow to dominate the world. We should get rid of them while the numbers are still on the lower end of the spectrum.”

Me ·
“”If the liberals had these murderous animals coming into their house”

All of you hate-filled “christian” fearmongers keep using this type of argument. Do you believe what some of the R politicians are saying, that ISIL warriors are coming through our southern border disguised as refugee children? Get a grip, and realize that some of the warhawk macho ‘we’ve got the TRUE god so let’s kill all of those fanatics who are killing for THEIR “true god.”

I have no more fear of an ISIL hit squad invading my house than I do of your god striking me dead for not believing in him. I’ll sleep peacefully tonight while you all wet your beds.”

Dennis Terry ·
“Jane E. Schneider First of all, I will not be wetting my bed at night, I am NOT losing sleep over them or liberals, nor am I a “hate filled” Christian. Who the heck died and gave YOU the right to look down your self righteous nose at us when you know nothing about us? I might possibly be the best friend that you ever had. Why are you so angry? I am my brother’s keeper and I want ISIS stopped at any cost to protect the innocent people over there. Is that hating? I think that it is loving the innocent and being forced to destroy evil. I don’t WANT anyone to die, but with these animalistic beings, the only choice we have to stop them is by killing them, just like we did Hitler, or any other murderous personification of evil. If they would live and let live, we could all live together in peace, but these radicals will NOT do that- they have a WELL KNOWN agenda of world domination, so you must know very little about them. Do you NOT think that these people going around cutting people’s heads off and raping the women and cutting off the children’s heads and putting them on poles….do you NOT think that they are acting like cold blooded animals? Do you NOT believe in evil? Do these people NOT fit your definition of evil? Why are you so venomous toward Christians instead of ISIS? Doesn’t that strike you a bit odd? It does me. And YES, if you had a murderer or a rapist come into your house at night, you would either WISH that you had a gun to protect yourself, your children or other loved ones, OR you would call someone with a gun (police), and hope that they made it there in time. If not, you would be a fool…….but wait a minute… don’t believe in God, so, according to the Bible, you ARE a fool from the get-go, for a fool hath said in his heart that there is no God. You can sit there and marinade in your hatred for Christians and all other things spiritual instead of directing your anger toward the REAL evil, you have that right., but you are foolish for doing that.

Me ·
Dennis Terry, I went to Catholic school for 13 years, was raised by very devout parents who actually exemplified Christ’s teachings better than the majority of “Christian” leaders and “Christian” pundits on TV. The very idea of killing anyone for their religious beliefs is abhorrent and a complete contradiction to everything Christ said. That was how I was brought up.

Today’s U.S. religious leaders are a whole ‘nother kettle of fish, and nothing that they are preaching these days has anything to do with actual morality and ethical behavior. And just because they no longer do their conquering crusades with swords or torture devices does not mean that they’re any less dangerous than any other religious fanatics. They have lost their own spirituality, their own morals, their own souls, for power and money and domination of others. The only real difference between U.S. religious fanatics and Middle-Eastern religious fanatics is their methods – both of which I reject.

If you and the other “Christian” commenters here think that your religious views are being attacked, too bad, we “godless liberals” have been under deliberate coordinated attack since at least the ’50s, when “In God We Trust” was added to our currency to distinguish the supposedly-god-fearing U.S. nation from those “godless commies.” So we’re pretty sick of it, because we DO have morals, and family values, and we work hard and pay taxes, and we’re patriotic, too.

[Please keep in mind that it’s 2:00am here in NY, so I’m tired and jumping around a bit, since you decided to ask me “20 questions”, not all of which I’m going to bother to respond to as they have nothing to do with the topic of the thread.]

I do believe in evil, but not in the satan/biblical way; I believe that some humans either lack or have a particular DNA section that makes them sociopaths. Obviously, people such as those in ISIL take that to a higher level, and I am not defending them in the least. I’m just sick and tired of the hypocrisy of so-called Christians who use their religion as a shield and a weapon, and cannot see that the more they advocate for violence, the less Christ-like they become. Not to mention the danger that they put the U.S. in, loudly calling for their own version of jihad, which does not go unnoticed around the world. But that aspect never seems to bother the growing number of xenophobic and insular U.S. citizens.

I don’t hate all Christians; like Ghandi said, “I like your Christ, but I don’t like your Christians.” If someone who claims to be Christian acts like the Christ that I learned about, I’m just fine with that, I applaud them. Just because I believe that most organized religions are a menace and hinder human progress, doesn’t mean that the particular set of moral values ascribed to Christ is dangerous, it’s the exact opposite. But these days I guess Christ isn’t described as the “Prince of Peace” anymore, right?

You can sit their with your own shield and weapon of your “Christianity” telling me that I’m the high and mighty one looking down my nose at you, but you’re the one marinating in your own assholier-than-thou [HT Zooey] stew telling me that I’m the fool “from the get-go” for not believing in your god and your holy book. You mind your own soul, and I’ll mind mine, thankyouverymuch. Goodnight.”

~ later, not as a reply ~

Dennis Terry ·
Look, I was minding my own business and from out of nowhere, you started attacking me and my God and Christianity, and making very goofy accusations which you had NO clue about. And THEN, you made the stupid statement of “’we’ve got the TRUE god so let’s kill all of those fanatics who are killing for THEIR “true god.” “ What? Where did that come from? It has NOTHING to do with Who I follow or what god THEY follow- ISIS needs to be stopped, NOT because they are Muslim, but because they are vile, evil , murderous thugs, so why did you say something that bizarre to start with, and why did you attack me instead of them? I haven’t murdered anyone or cut off anyone’s head!

Then you said, “And just because they no longer do their conquering crusades with swords or torture devices does not mean that they’re any less dangerous than any other religious fanatics.” Again, a stupid statement- Protestants never engaged in the Crusades, that was strictly a CATHOLIC doings, and what dangers do Christians have in store? Post the 10 Commandments in our schools to teach them moral values to protect society and to keep them from a life of crime? Or teach abstinence instead of having babies out of wedlock? Or lead some prison inmates to the Lord so that they stop their lives of crime, and become law abiding citizens? Or give Hope to the Hopeless? OMGosh! Call the National Guard! What happened to you to make you so angry about religion, Christianity in particular?

Then you said- “So we’re pretty sick of it (being attacked), because we DO have morals, and family values, and we work hard and pay taxes, and we’re patriotic, too.” But you are an atheist, so why do you have morals? Aren’t you a biological accident from some primordial slime? Aren’t morals God’s values? They aren’t biological in nature. The Bible talks about people like you, having a FORM of Godliness, but denying the Power thereof. This is going to sound mean, but I don’t intend for it to. I am GLAD that you had some wonderful parents that taught you morals, and that you are honoring them for that, but you need to get your priorities straight about what you are going to believe. If you are an atheist, act like an atheist and give up EVERYTHING pertaining to God, including morals and values.

Why are you liberal atheists “under attack”? Because a small, handful of atheists go out of their way to take Prayer and Bible out of school and our sporting events and our graduation ceremonies and are trying to remove ALL aspects of Christianity from society, even though the VAST MAJORITY do NOT want them removed. We KNOW that Christianity teaches those same morals that you are so proud of having, taught to you BY CHRISTIAN parents, and we know that THAT is WHERE your parents got them from to teach to you in the first place! Can’t you see the hypocrisy there? You have morals and values, that YOU ARE PROUD OF, TAUGHT TO YOU BY CHRISTIAN parents, yet you want to prevent other people from being taught those same vales and morals that you seem to hold so dear! The Bible, once again talks about atheists who in the Last Days will call GOOD-EVIL, and will call EVIL-GOOD.

You say that you believe in Evil, but NOT in a Biblical way, but evil “IS” a moral judgment FROM God. From an atheistic, evolutionary point of view, we are animals, and animals do whatever they do, there is NO right or wrong, good or evil- THOSE ARE moral judgments, straight from a Moral God. The atheistic, evolutionary view is, Survival of the fittest, kill or be killed- THESE are natural events and actions WITHOUT God, without Morals. THAT is why atheistic regimes and dictators murder multiple-millions of their people, their subjects, to make examples out of them to keep the rest in line to maintain their death grip on their selfish, atheistic power.

And then you sink to your atheistic true colors by calling me, “assholier-than-thou “ comment. I would NEVER say that to you, and I believe that your atheism is overshadowing your “moral” upbringing.

I don’t understand the double mindedness, and double standards of atheism, or why you work so hard to fight against something that you claim to NOT believe in. There are people who believe in unicorns- I DON’T believe in unicorns or UFO’s so why in the world would I waste my time fighting them for their beliefs? Something to consider- WHAT IF, the Bible “IS” TRUE, and where the Bible says, If God is NOT your Father, then you are of your father, Satan, what if- your hatred toward Christianity and all things pertaining to God is actually a SPIRITUAL matter, and you atheists are pawns, being used by Satan and not realizing it? That’s something to consider.”

Adm Andrew J. Walker ·
“Good arguments my friend. An atheist wouldn’t actually have the time to debate a religious article because they would see it as a waste of time (a total rejection of all forms of theology or anyone who practices them.) It sounds like this guy is looking for justification for deviating from what he was taught growing up by attacking others. The goal is to see if his arguments stand, so that he can feel better about his decision to reject what he or she learned at an early age.

So basically the comments on the message board are his or her way of dealing with repressed feelings of anxiety about the afterlife. Better not to let someone drag you into a circular debate that at its root isn’t actually about religion, or the lack-there-of, at all.

What I am really saying is that there are some mommy/daddy issues here.”

Dennis Terry ·
“Adm Andrew J. Walker I believe that is very perceptive of you. But atheists do this all the time, and the person I was talking to, there is a double mindedness that she is proud of, yet hates and wants to destroy, all at the same time, so something else is brewing underneath the surface it seems. I truly believe that it is spiritual warfare, and these people, as I said, are being used as pawns, and have no idea of what is REALLY going on. She said things about the Catholic church which I wonder is the root of her hatred, and if so, I can understand it, as the CC has ALWAYS had many, multiple conflicts with the Bible, and a history of unBiblical, unhealthy, spiritual issues. Thanks for the comment my friend!”

Becky Marsland-Hill ·
“Wow, that is spot on Dennis……I am sorry someone attacked you. But those are truly words of wisdom you replied back”

Dennis Terry ·
“Becky Marsland-Hill Thanks Becky. I’m not saying that I am perfect or that I am wise in anyway, but I “DO” know God and He wants us to take a stand against evil and to help others in need. God Himself waged wars against evil doers to protect the world, and His people. He also had a lot to say about those who would reject Him and His incredible sacrifice to purchase our Salvation. This person was spewing hatred toward the Christianity for the Crusades, and that was bogus. It was NOT Christianity- it was the leadership of the CATHOLIC church, of which she, herself was raised! The leadership of the CC was NOT acting as agents of Christianity- they were engaged in unGodly activities such as murdering Christians, and burning the Christians and anyone else who DARED to disagree with them at the stake. They went around in the Crusades and other areas DOING EXACTLY OPPOSITE OF WHAT JESUS TAUGHT! They were doing exactly what atheists have always done- silence those who disagree with you, however you have to do it, and isn’t smart enough to see that she is hating Christianity for what the atheists were doing, under the guise OF RELIGION! Anyway, I feel so sorry for people like her and wish her well”

Wow – just wow.  As badmoodman commented on this last week, “Irony facepalms itself, then throws up its hands in unconditional surrender.”  Perfect, bmm.
This is our daily open thread, please talk about anything you want to.  I’ll just be over here banging my head against the wall.

36 thoughts on “The Watering Hole, Monday, September 8th, 2014: Huh?

  1. Adm Andrew J. Walker: “. . . An atheist wouldn’t actually have the time to debate a religious article because they would see it as a waste of time (a total rejection of all forms of theology or anyone who practices them.)”

    He at least got part of that right — it is, indeed, typically a “waste of time” to “debate a religious article” (religious ‘belief’ of any sort) because a good debate requires factual arguments, and theology of any sort has no factual argument available to it, only fantasy.

    Seems to me I remember JC saying something like “Love thy neighbor as thyself” — he should have said “HATE and FEAR thy neighbor as thyself” and then it would work for zealots of most any “faith.”

    As my old college roomie noted fifty-plus years ago during a conversation on how to improve the quality of humanity, “If only we could get rid of ‘faith’.” He was right.

  2. That camo headband looks almost like a turban, and the hair and beard would do any muslim cleric proud. Radical religious zealot

  3. Convert or die! the muslim cried.
    And clothed himself for war.
    Convert or die! the christian replied;
    Now both are covered in gore.

    For neither will convert the other,
    And so the killing begins.
    Professing god’s love for one another,
    In a war that no one wins.

  4. Dennis Terry seems to think “I am my brother’s keeper” really means, “I am my brother’s killer.”

    I think he just doesn’t understand that “brother” means the whole of humanity — not just people who think and believe the way he does.

  5. Ok, I know I’m way out of touch with the modern world, but . . .

    Who the hell is “Ray Rice” and why in the world is his name headlining all over the web? He plays football and is screwed up? So? That’s a long way from ‘headline unique’, no?

    • The conservative asshats talk about the country’s morals not being up to par…
      gee, wonder why? The commentators tell people it is ok to bash and abuse as long as it isn’t videotaped.
      Shame on those idiots calling themselves ‘news’.

  6. QOTD:

    “Do not try to do too much with your own hands. Better the Arabs do it tolerably than that you do it perfectly. It is their war, and you are to help them, not to win it for them. Actually, also, under the very odd conditions of Arabia, your practical work will not be as good as, perhaps, you think it is,” – T.E. Lawrence.

  7. That Dennis Terry left one more “comment” to me:

    “You do NOT go to Hell because you don’t believe in God. Believing isn’t enough, Satan believes in God, yet hell was created for him and his demons. We go to Hell because we have ALL sinned, and we ALL deserve to go to Hell, and there is NOTHING that we can do on our own power to be good enough to go to Heaven- nothing whatsoever! God knew this, and THAT is why He devised a plan to restore us to a place where we could be forgiven of our sins. The Bible says that without the shedding of blood there is NO forgiveness of sin. Why the shedding of blood? I have no idea, God never shared that part with us, but suffice it to say that Salvation requires a blood sacrifice. Jesus, who IS God, laid down His divine nature in Heaven, and humbled Himself, and came down to earth in the form of a human being, and walked among us and taught us of His ways, and how we should act, and was tempted with EVERY sin that is common to all of mankind, yet He never yielded to any of the temptations, and THAT is what made Him the “Lamb of God” Who takes away the sins of the world. God is a just God and being so, He has to Judge accordingly, someone had to take the punishment of sin. The Bible says that Jesus became sin for us, He took the rap for us, fulfilling God’s requirements for Salvation. Jesus made a WAY to get to Heaven, actually, Jesus said, “I (Jesus) am the Way, the Truth and the Life, NO MAN comes to the Father except through Me.”. The gift of Salvation is FREE to anyone and to everyone that will accept Jesus’ sacrificial gift, and you do that by asking Jesus to forgive you of your sins, and come live inside of you and be your Lord and Savior, die to self and let Jesus live His life through you. That’s it, that’s all you have to do. The sad thing is this, God went to a LOT of trouble to purchase our Salvation and to make a WAY for us to get there, and so many people, atheists, agnostics, Muslims, whatever, will go to Hell needlessly, all the while, Jesus is standing there, with a gift of Salvation, just for you, and the majority of people will walk right past Him and will SEND THEMSELVES to Hell, for NO reason whatsoever, and what a huge waste that is. I know that you don’t believe this, but it is true. Now the question is this- what if I am right? Yes, only a fool would walk past Him and reject such a Great Salvation. I too was a fool- for years- and was on my way to Hell, I am no different than you. The ONLY difference is that NOW, I believe- no, let me rephrase that- I KNOW that God is real. How do I know? I have a personal relationship with Him, and I’m sure that you won’t believe this either, but He talks to me on occasion, yes- with a literal, voice on the inside of me, which is reasonable since the Holy Spirit lives inside of me. Ask most any Christian, and I guess that most will tell you the same thing, although we don’t sit around and talk about things like that, because it’s pretty personal, but that is only one of NUMEROUS reasons why I KNOW that He is alive and Who He says that He is. Regardless of what you think of me, I do NOT want you to go to Hell. If I lead you to the Lord, that wouldn’t get me extra points or anything, and I have no reason to spent this time on you, except that I have experienced something GOOD, and I want to share this Good News with everyone, including you! Now, am I perfect or higher than you? Certainly not, I am just a sinner Saved by Grace, and as a result of that, I know that if God did it for me, He can certainly do it for you and everyone else also! He said is Jeremiah, “Seek Me and you shall find Me, when you search for Me with all of your heart.” Put Him to the test, and can assure you that He can and will reveal Himself to you, but you have to search for Him. I would suggest that reading the Bible, would be a good start. Do like you Daddy did- sounds like he was a good AND a smart man. I would suggest starting in the Book of John. Take care.”

    I have to read it in bits and pieces, it’s so mind-boggling.

    • Definitely needs to be taken in small doses!

      I got as far as

      Why the shedding of blood? I have no idea, God never shared that part with us, but suffice it to say that Salvation requires a blood sacrifice.

      before I skimmed the remainder.

      (It may not be rambling enough to be Darryyll, it is along his lines)

      • Well that’s a load of rationalizations honed over centuries of delusional
        made-up dogma. It’s almost a paste and cut job out of any numerious fundamentalist manifestos. I’ve always enjoyed, in a macabre way, all the blood letting, human sacrifice stories, but I’ll leave it there. (h/t JW)

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