The Watering Hole, Monday, July 13, 2015: What Should Be Done About The Confederate Flag?

Charleston Conservative Examiner Kyle Rogers posted a column claiming Lynyrd Skynard fans were “outraged” after the band’s sole remaining original member, Gary Rossington, announced they would no longer display the Confederate Flag at their performances saying that they didn’t want to offend anyone. Since the author of that article referenced a CNN appearance by Rossington it’s safe to assume that part of the story is accurate. As for the rest? Well, it’s clear the author is not a journalist. He writes, “However, there is a growing outrage among fans. Many say they have attended Lynyrd Skynyrd concerts for decades, but will never buy a ticket again. Twitter and Facebook have exploded with condemnation. Many are now calling the band a “fake,” who just own the right’s to the original band’s name.” He does not include any examples, however. Nor does he provide any links to this so-called “outrage.” Nor does he know the difference between plurals and possessives or how to use the apostrophe correctly. But he is clearly upset that the Confederate Flag is being rejected once again.

And why shouldn’t it be? I’ve been trying to find what the justification for continuing to fly that flag is. I read a lot that it represents “Southern Pride” and “Southern Heritage,” but I’ve been having a hard time finding reliable definitions of those terms. I found this from a Texas Progressive who claims that this heritage is based on white supremacy. And considering that it took a century for black people to even have civil rights because of opposition from the former states of the Confederacy, and considering that many Southern states STILL don’t want black people to vote and have said as much, it’s hard to see anything noble about the Southern Cause. A pro-General Lee Civil War buff, Joe Ryan, opened his excellent timeline of debates in Congress that led to the Civil War with teh assertion that it was caused by Racism, “plain and simple.” I have not had the opportunity to research this further, but the author of this article says that many Northerners did not feel it was possible to live with black people, and actually wanted the slaves to be free but to stay in the South. He says that had more Northern Members of Congress supported the Abolitionists and spoken up about how to resolve the issue of ending Slavery, the war might have been avoided. I honestly don’t know what the truth is on that subject. But one thing that is indisputable is that the Confederate States of America fired upon the United States of America, and their flag is the flag of Traitors. It does not belong on the public property of the United States of America. Despite all the hysteria from the right (including Conservative Democrats), we are not looking to ban the flag outright. Our primary goal at this point is to eliminate the Confederate Flag from public property, except inside museums. I’m conflicted on allowing an exception to any actual Confederacy Museums our govt maintains. If there are any, a small replica of it on the front yard sign would be okay. But not an actual flag flying from a pole. Not on public property.

As for flying it on private property, I’ll fully support your right to do so when you admit to me that it stands for White Supremacy and Enslavement of Black People, because that is historically undeniable. I’m not at all sure what the “pride” and “heritage” of the South is that the flag is supposed to represent. If it’s all about manners and hospitality then, yeah, but only toward white people. Jim Webb, who wants to be the Democratic nominee for President, but who will likely get no further than the short list of VP running mates, thinks the talk of taking down the flag is an attack on “Southern White culture.” Some wavers of the Rebel Flag, like the KKK and Neo-Nazi groups, freely admit that’s why they fly it. I just want any other citizen who flies it to publicly admit they’re doing it for the same reason. Then I’ll exercise my First Amendment rights and tell them what idiotic assholes they are. And, yes, I’m prepared to die for saying it. As a nation, we need to stop treating every opinion as if it’s a valid one, worthy of respect. Even mine if you find no factual basis in it. But an opinion on what to do with the Confederate Flag (General Robert E. Lee said it belongs in a museum) means nothing if the person holding it believes Slavery had little or nothing to do with the Civil War, or that it was just a side issue. Because that is not an opinion based on facts.

This is our daily open thread. Feel free to ridicule racist assholes who still fly the Confederate Flag, or anything you else you wish to discuss.

54 thoughts on “The Watering Hole, Monday, July 13, 2015: What Should Be Done About The Confederate Flag?

  1. A few quotes from Confederates as to the cause of the war, from an excellent essay written by a dear friend:
    “The central, motivating, pivotal purpose driving the South to secede was slavery. As Confederate General James Longstreet stoutly asserted after the war, “If it (the war) wasn’t about slavery, then I don’t know what else it was about.”
    Let’s also hear from someone we know locally—and I am in the first rank of John Mosby’s admirers: “The South was my country, but the South went to war on account of slavery.”
    Declining invitations to memorial ceremonies wherein wrong-headed speakers claimed slavery had nothing to do with the conflict, Mosby offered in response he was not ashamed to say he fought for the Confederacy— and did he ever! —but that the South must come to grips with the “true facts of history.” “

    • the South must come to grips with the “true facts of history.

      Exactly! No revisionist ‘history’.

  2. Summation/conclusions perfecto-mundo, Wayne.

    AFAIC, the Confederate battle flag has as much validity for public display as does the Nazi Swastika, both of which have a “historical” niche based on a defining philosophy of hatred and of white (aka Aryan) superiority. I have no reason to believe that those who defend, promote and/or display either flag are possessed by exactly that motivation and nothing else. And to me. that motivation is both disgusting and abhorrent.

  3. Beloved ‘Bloom County’ comic to return in 2015, says creator Berkeley Breathed

    http://www.rawstory.com/2015/07/beloved-bloom-county-comic-to-return-in-2015-says-creator-berkeley-breathed/

    Bill the Cat, Opus the Penguin, shyster lawyer Steve Dallas, Binkley’s Closet of Anxieties and other characters from the beloved Bloom County comic could be returning with the publication of a new series of strips, says the comic’s creator.

    According to BuzzFeed, author and illustrator Berkeley Breathed announced on Sunday that he intends to start publishing the comic again after a lengthy hiatus.

    In a Facebook post, Breathed showed himself drawing on a touch screen computer. The panel he is inscribing reads “Bloom County 2015″ and shows a faint outline of Opus, a talking penguin and a central character of the strip, which was a staple during the 1980s and 90s.

    “A return after 25 years. Feels like going home,” reads the photo’s caption.

    One commenter asked Breathed if the return of the strip had anything to do with Donald Trump’s entry into the 2016 presidential race.

    “This creator can’t precisely deny that the chap you mention had nothing to do with it,” Breathed replied.

    Bloom County originally ran as a daily black and white strip with a Sunday color edition from December 8, 1980, until August 6, 1989. It spawned two spin-off weekly series, Outland and Opus.

  4. Over the weekend I observed two young men masking a painting a neighbor’s house.
    They appeared to be doing a very good job and quickly got a coat of paint nicely sprayed on the house.
    I was contemplating asking them for a quote to paint my 11 year old home, but I spotted, on the dashboard of their beat up silver/gray Toyota mini pickup truck, a confederate flag.
    They probably don’t know or care that they just lost a prospective customer before they even knew I was interested.

  5. Roy Moore To RW Extremists: LGBTQs Need ‘God, Not Government’

    Dignity is given by God, not by government. And he gave dignity to man and woman. In fact, you all know that, when you consummate a marriage, that act is a dignified act. But we can’t change it to an undignified act and call it dignity

    Roy Moore has an interesting dilemma that someone should maybe point out to him. Anyone alive today and with a functioning mind can PROVE absolutely — within a moment’s time and without further question — that government exists. I’m willing to bet that even if given a million years, Roy Moore could not offer even a single shred of VERIFIABLE evidence that any god exists or has ever existed.

    His premise falls on hard times the moment it’s spoken or otherwise proposed.

    • If each person’s dignity is given to them by the Creator than any two people who consummate a marriage are performing a dignified act as long as they respect the dignity of their partner. Roy fails on every level.

  6. And a hearty RUC Welcome to Scott Wanker, newest passenger in the already crowded Klown Kar!
    Welcome, and here’s to your campaign, as it savages your idiot compatriots in the hopes of getting more than just Iowa and Wisconsin to vote for you. Make sure you take your best shot at Jebster and Mario, and tag Rick Perry for the vacuous slob he truly is.
    Make sure you take credit for giving away the farm to the Milwaukee Buc$ so they can have a new stadium at taxpayer’s expense. Your reich wing fans will love to hear that.
    Another flat tire on the Klown Kar.

    Here’s an appropriate video to celebrate his puppet candidacy

  7. Who said this after the 2012 election:

    “The Republican Party will continue to lose presidential elections if it comes across as mean-spirited and unwelcoming toward people of color.

    Republicans didn’t have anything going for them with respect to Latinos and with respect to Asians.

    The Democrats didn’t have a policy for dealing with illegal immigrants, but what they did have going for them is they weren’t mean-spirited about it. They didn’t know what the policy was, but what they were is they were kind.

    Romney’s solution of “self deportation” for illegal aliens made no sense and Republicans do not care about Hispanics in general.

    {Romney} had a crazy policy of self deportation which was maniacal, It sounded as bad as it was, and he lost all of the Latino vote. He lost the Asian vote. He lost everybody who is inspired to come into this country.

    The GOP has to develop a comprehensive policy “to take care of this incredible problem that we have with respect to immigration, with respect to people wanting to be wonderful productive citizens of this country.”

    G’head, betcha can’t guess what egotistical blowhard billionaire said this.

      • It’s just in case they need to drag a couple of the locals handcuffed to their fender – you never know

  8. Scott Walker Says His Presidential Bid Is ‘God’s Plan’

    My relationship with God drives every major decision in my life. Each day I pray and then take time to read from the Bible and from a devotional named Jesus Calling.

    IOW, god hates poor people, teachers, science, unions, minimum wages that make survival possible, along with everyone anywhere who gives a shit about something other than the Koch bank account balance. “It” apparently likes cross-eyed idiots with a shiny bald spot, however.

    Vote Walker.

    Yeah, sure, ya betcha.😯

    • God ‏@TheTweetOfGod

      Yes, Scott. Running for president is the first part of “My plan for you”. The second part: your humiliating defeat.

      • While you’re at it, God ‏@TheTweetOfGod, please make sure his humiliating defeat is in the general.

      • Well, the Grand Old Party IS the loony bin and has been for at least 35 years — Walker defines the words “perfect fit” I’m thinking.

    • What’s the difference between this weasel and Jeff Dahmer? Both of them listened to the voice sin their heads. Arrogant little gobshite.

    • I just thought of a question that someone simply must ask Scotty.

      “So, Gov. Walker, which Kock Brother is the Supreme Being? David or Charles?”.

  9. Cross my heart and hope to die.
    Stick a needle in my eye!

    I know what it’s like to have an injection in the eye. This was the second time and I’ll have one for each of the next two months! An odd feeling to say the least. About three – four drops to anesthetize before the actual injection of medication.
    (it is to reduce edema in the back of the eye)

    • Imagine that!
      Common sense is lacking. Or could it be the ‘pared down’ history of the Civil War taught in some southern schools?

  10. ‘Arrogant’ Dinesh D’Souza has to do way more community service than he thought

    Conservative scribe Dinesh D’Souza has to perform a lot more community service for breaking campaign-finance laws than he thought, with a federal judge saying Monday that D’Souza has to do eight hours each week for the entire five years he’s on probation and not just the eight months he was confined to a halfway house.
    The judge also read aloud a report from a court-appointed psychologist who called D’Souza “arrogant” and “intolerant of others’ feelings.”
    Powerhouse defense attorney Ben Brafman was surprised when Manhattan federal court Judge Richard Berman clarified the sentence he handed down after D’Souza pleaded guilty last year, which means D’Souza will have to do over 1,600 hours more service than he initially thought.

    Tee…hee…hee…

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