The Watering Hole, Monday, January 18th, 2016: ICYMI

Some updates on the Malheur National Wildlife Refuge situation from the weekend:

Yesterday, DailyKos had this story about Child Protective Services removing Robert “LaVoy” Finicum’s fourfoster children from his Arizona ‘ranch.’  I love the [literal] money quote:

“That was my main source of income,” Finicum said. “My ranch, well, the cows just cover the costs of the ranch. If this means rice and beans for the next few years, so be it. We’re going to stay the course.”

According to Oregon Public Broadcasting:

“That represents an enormous loss of income for the Finicums. According to a 2010 tax filing, Catholic Charities paid the family $115,343 to foster children in 2009…

Since then, Catholic Charities has increased payments for foster care significantly, but it does not itemize the dollar amount the Finicums were paid in subsequent years.”

On Saturday, January 16th, a few members of the Center for Biological Diversity tried to protest the occupation of the refuge.  From Raw Story:

“We’re here to speak up for public land, which belongs to the public,” the group’s executive director, Kierán Suckling, said. “These people are trying to take the land away.”

Pete Santilli, part of the occupying group, picked up a bullhorn and started shouting over him, calling the conservationists “communist,” “fascist,” and saying, “You’re under arrest for bull****ting.”

Ah, yes, Pete Santilli.  At first I had him confused with Rick Santilli, the idiot whose ranting on CNBC more or less started the Tea Party plague.  However, this Pete Santilli seems to be cut from much the same cloth.  Pete is the one who, on his radio show back in 2013, spouted the following regarding then-Secretary of State Hillary Clinton:

“I want to shoot her right in the vagina and I don’t want her to die right away,” he said. “I want her to feel the pain and I want to look her in the eyes and I want to say, on behalf of all Americans that you’ve killed, on behalf of the Navy SEALS, the families of Navy SEAL Team Six who were involved in the fake hunt down of this Obama, Obama bin Laden thing, that whole fake scenario, because these Navy SEALS know the truth, they killed them all.”

Santilli continued: “On behalf of all of those people, I’m supporting our troops by saying we need to try, convict, and shoot Hillary Clinton in the vagina.”

According to his bio, “Pete Santilli is a Former U.S. Marine, Consumer Advocate, Former Coca-Cola Executive, Corporate Whistleblower, Radio Talk Show Host. Pete Santilli is a professional hell raiser…”

Santilli also led a protest outside the FBI’s temporary setup at the Burns Airport on Saturday.  However, it appears that Santilli is merely a supporter of the occupiers:

“Asked about the demonstration outside the FBI’s headquarters, [Robert] Finicum said Santilli is an “independent journalist” and is not part of the group occupying the Refuge.”

On the agenda for today, according to The Oregonian, is a ‘lecture’ by KrisAnne Hall, who is described as “a Florida attorney and radio talk show host” (although she reportedly no longer holds a license to practice as an attorney in Florida.)  Ms Hall is planning to ‘sovereign-splain’ the supposed legality of the Bundy-led occupation of the wildlife refuge:

“Her assistant said she will cover two topics: sovereignty of the state and the constitutional limits of the federal government’s control.

Hall is an outspoken critic of the federal government who supports privatization of federal lands.

“The people are not acting lawlessly,” Hall said in [a] video. “It is the federal government that is acting lawlessly.”

For a tutorial on the warped version of the legal belief system that these deluded people are trying to establish, see this post on Friday’s ThinkProgress.

And for continuing updated coverage, The Oregonian puts up a daily “what you need to know” article along with related articles.

This is our daily Open Thread – feel free to talk about anything you like.

51 thoughts on “The Watering Hole, Monday, January 18th, 2016: ICYMI

  1. FYI, on the front page in Chrome this post has no title. Opened it with ‘leave a reply’ at the bottom. Once open, there’s a title. I pulled it up on my phone to ‘like’ the post, and on Safari mobile the title does show on the front page. To check, I went to IE on the desktop, and the title doesn’t show there on the front page either. Based on what was said last night y’all are dealing with new tricks in the WordPress.

    • I hate the new WordPress format. I didn’t think they needed to change anything. Now I don’t know how to do a some things that used to be easy to do, and I’m not exactly a dummy about these things. It’s enough to make me stop posting.

      • Relax Wayne, you’ll find out soon enough that you won’t be able to do many things you do now with the same ease, if at all!😦

    • No title in Mozilla either. Some months ago I accidentally put some html in the reply box and totally screwed how I view this site.Everything is tiny. If I mispell words, it’s because I can’t read my comment.

  2. Public Lands. I’m all for increasing the acreages — dramatically. And then keeping private enterprise OFF. Wildnerness, National Parks and Monuments, Wildlife Refuges — all good; National Forests, BLM lands — need some serious adjusting toward the goal of preservation, not “use.”

    A good place to start is Cliven Bundy’s ranch in Nevada. If that useless bum doesn’t pay the million he owes by, say, the end of this week, take it over, give him the boot, and turn it into a wildlife refuge or something equally useful. Start there, and it shouldn’t take too long to dramatically increase Public Land acreages. Sounds like, e.g., Lavoy Finicum’s AZ cattle ranch might also be available.

    Time to get serious about preservation is point one. It’s also time to get serious about getting rid of rancher welfare. Oh, and it’s also way past the time to quit fearing wingnut militias and their screwball notions; toss ’em.

  3. Foster children “my main source of income” – yeah, that’s some rugged western individualism and family values right there.

    • This seems crazy to me. I wonder how much is actually spent on the children.

  4. From the files of “We’re so fooked!”:


    ” the food chains of the world’s oceans are at risk of collapse due to climate change, overfishing and localized pollution.”

    And that none of the monkey-poo flinging spectacles called the ‘DOP(e) debates’ have featured the words ‘climate change’ as far as I know ….none of those chimps are qualified to lead this country. Nor for that matter are the panel hosts qualified to run even a kindergarten debate for hall monitor.

    • Interesting read, Gary, I enjoyed that. Some details, being Johnny Foreigner and all of how King justified and set up his opposition. I happened to read the chapter concerning King in Hitchens’ ‘God is Not Great’ this past weekend and then this critique of Hitchens’ thesis on King.

      The repeated distortion of who is and who is not a Republican by Republicans desperate to shake off the stench of Strom Thurmond, Gov Wallis, Nathan Bedford Forrest, Cliven Bundy, Jesse Helms and Trent Lott is galling chutzpah. I think I will just accuse them of being liars from now on, since your point about the Dixecrat defection in the 60s is high-school US history is sustained.

      Then I read Rudepundit’s MLK would still fook your sheet up, 2016 edition is my last reflection on MLK I can read today. Maybe we will see Ammosexual Bundy put out a statement about how he is MLK with a cowboy hat today – that would be fun to go to town on.

      • I struggle to say anything … measured … about Dawkins and Hitchens, so I try to avoid saying anything about them (by name) at all. I skimmed the Lauer piece, and the whole, “King wasn’t a Christian because he wasn’t vicious” thing from Hitchens does not surprise me. Oh, and the bullshit about plagiarizing his doctoral *DISSERTATION* (NOT a thesis, that is only in the sciences) is just long overdue to have a fork stuck in it. He was writing his dissertation at the Dexter Avenue Baptist church off of a pile of 3/5 note card. It is not as though he had access to a research library, or that his diss directors might be in any way confused about who said what. And this was in the time leading up to that little “Rosa Parks bus thing,” so it is not as though he enjoyed any of Hitchen’s luxuries of research and composition.

        • It is an interesting case of how the same revealed religion was interpreted by one group of people to justify centuries of oppression, slavery and inhumanity and by another group reading the same religion and coming to a different point-of-view and driven by more belief, prevailing. Hitchens doesn’t give credit where it is due – he starts with the answer that since religion in involved, no good can come of it, and Coulter-like fits his square argument in the round hole. One of the links was to one of Coulter’s books – he reviewed for Vanity Fair – it is a masterpiece of casual dismemberment by a verbal rapier.

          • Much the same division as appears in any form of interpretation. Consider how people “read” the Constitution depending on how high or low they score on Altemeyer’s RWA scale. One of the sadder examples of anti-intelligence is the insistence on a “literal” reading (as though any such thing was even possible!) when the people who wrote the books of the Old Testament themselves understood they were talking in metaphor, analogy, and poetic imagery. Conservative’s see scripture as a closed door that provides all answers; liberals see it as an open door that invites deeper questions.

  5. Okay, got that fixed. Apparently she inadvertently clicked that this was a Link post instead of a Standard post. Once I clicked the right button and saved it, the title came back at the top of the page.

    I still hate the new WordPress format.

    BTW, I went to “Settings” under “My Sites”., then clicked on “WP Admin” on the bottom which brought up the familiar looking page from which I could click on the Thumb Tack for posts and get the old style posting page, which we all know and love.

    Victory is mine!

  6. You don’t have to contribute, but if you could share on your own Facebook and Twitter accounts, it would help my family spread the word. Thank you very much for anything you can do to help. Jimmy is my oldest nephew, born just five days after my 16th birthday. I love him very much.

        • Thanks, Gary. Any kind of help is appreciated, even just spreading the word. That’s how those things work. Spread the word around enough, and eventually it reaches people who do like to contribute to things like that. You hear stories about millionaires who just lost someone, and want to help a stranger. Hey, it could happen. Jimmy’s a smart, decent kid. I’m sure if he can find a way to communicate, he will. I’ve been told that he’s aware of his situation and has expressed a desire to live, not be allowed to be taken of life support. His mother and I went to high school together; she’s only two years older than I. I’ve known her a long time and she’s a very dedicated mother and grandmother. And she’s going to stay by his side forever, if need be.

          Thank you for the kind words, my friend, and for sharing his story.

          • I too passed this along to my FB friends. I sincerely hope that Jimmy gets relief from this terrible attack on his body.

            • TYVM, nwoldguy. It’s the sharing of it that gets it passed to the most people quickly, considering how social media works today. I think Gary would agree it’s become a very effective way of raising money today for the common person, not connected to anyone famous. And whether you’re able to contribute or not, just sharing it helps. Again, my sincere thanks.

    • LOL the comments – someone thinks he looks like Grandpa Munster as a younger man.

      • I voted for Grandpa Al Lewis when he ran for Governor of NY on the Green Party ballot. If their candidate for governor got enough votes, the Green Party would not have to get signatures to put candidates on the ballot for the next four years. I’m trying to break the two-party system in my own way. I think we should always have more choices than just the two standard corrupt ones.

        I’m also in favor of the National Popular Vote, a constitutional way to get around the Electoral College. If it’s implemented by the 2016 elections, I’ll change my voting strategy.

      • See if you can guess which reality star/politician’s son was just arrested for drunken domestic abuse involving a firearm. Somebody from Alaska? You’re on the right Track.

  7. Meghan McCain: Ted Cruz is ‘the thinking man’s Donald Trump’ because he can quote the Bible better.

    That’s like saying, the thinking man’s potato.

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