The Watering Hole; Thursday July 28 2016; “Noise of Hammers”: RNC Convention; DNC Convention; Election 2016

Noise of hammers once I heard
Many hammers, busy hammers,
Beating, shaping, night and day,
Shaping, beating dust and clay
To a palace; saw it reared;
Saw the hammers laid away.

And I listened, and I heard
Hammers beating, night and day,
In the palace newly reared,
Beating it to dust and clay:
Other hammers, muffled hammers,
Silent hammers of decay.
(Ralph Hodgson)

So — the political conventions are over (or will be when the DNC shuts the doors later tonight), and their nominees have been selected: Donald Trump (R) and Hillary Clinton (D). The election will be held in early November, roughly 100 days from now (and presumably a week or two before Trump’s own Trump U scam trial is due to commence). According to current polls, Trump and Clinton are about tied, with Libertarian Gary Johnson and the Green Party’s Jill Stein, the nominees of their respective tee-tiny parties, snagging at the most a little over 10% of polled voters.

Bottom line: the next POTUS will be either Hillary Clinton or Donald Trump. The choice is a simple one: elect Trump and say goodbye to our America, or elect Hillary (and a Dem Senate majority, the bigger the better) and diminish their Amurkkka. It’s really just about that simple.

The single most salient issue in this election remains, and it’s a simple one: the Liberal/Conservative ratio of Supreme Court Justices. The next President will most likely name 3, maybe 4, possibly even 5 Supreme Court Justices. If Clinton wins, we’ll be assured of a Liberal-Progressive majority for decades. If Trump wins, we’ll be assured of a Christo-Fascist majority, also for decades.

The proper and logical choice is simple, at least to some of us (although clearly not to all of us). To demonstrate, below are a pair of brief comment-conversations on C&L. The first set I myself initiated by briefly spelling out what is, to me, the REASON we as a nation MUST defeat Donald Trump and elect, instead, the ONLY available Liberal candidate remaining on the scene (topical discussion follows).

The Kaine Pick: No Surprises But Big Questions

The choice is simple: elect either Hillary, or Drumpf. If Drumpf wins, kiss this country goodbye, and read up on all the joys of fascism. If Hillary wins, think possibly three or four, maybe even five, potential Supreme Court appointments (which will have a LOT to do with determining the country’s future) and don’t worry about Kaine. Veeps (aside from Cheney) typically don’t have a lot to say about much.

I’m a Bernie progressive, but understand that he’s going to remain in the Senate. I also understand that Hillary is the only available reasonable choice that has any chance at becoming POTUS. No need to worry about anything other than that. Elect her, or prepare to suffer the most hideous electoral consequences in the nation’s history.

P.S.: Kaine’s debut was impressive enough to cause me to no longer worry whether he can hold up his end of the campaign.

albabe to frugalchariot
I’m with you 100%.

But it is amazing how self-destructive and stupid some people can be.

s k to frugalchariot
I don’t vote for cheaters in either corrupt party.

How the DCN Stole the Democratic Nomination From Sanders:


Both parties will do the bidding of the Oligarchs that fund/bribe them.


You keep voting because of fear.

frugalchariot to s k
Nope. I keep voting for the possibility that we as a nation may eventually find a way to get rid of our ever-burgeoning supplies of Hitlers and Mussolinis. Fear? Nope. At my age this will probably be my last election anyway — assuming I make it till November.

s k to frugalchariot
Stop kidding yourself, with Trump or Hillary we have a Oligarchy, where the oligarch fight each other for control.

As Jimmy Carter said the US is a “Oligarchy with Unlimited Political Bribery”. He was the first Dem I voted for. I am not plying their bs game anymore.

frugalchariot to s k
I assume you’ve resigned yourself to national collapse then. Right?

s k to frugalchariot
It’s happening already, maybe you didn’t notice Obama is trying to pass his corporate Coup Trade Deals, that Hillary called the Gold Standard.

Why do you think Obama wants to pass the TPP. TTIP and TISA with his GOP Friends?

frugalchariot to s k
At this point I could care less about trade deals. They can be dealt with after the fact, IF and when the need becomes obvious. What can NOT be dealt with — for 2-3 decades — is a newly appointed Christo-Fascist (conservative) majority on the Supreme Court.

So. If Christo-Fascism is what drives you, either stay home or vote for Green, Libertarian (neither of whom stand a ghost chance in hell of accomplishing anything more than grabbing votes from R and D caandidates) or vote for Trump. Vote for, i.o.w., the final demise of a country that currently teeters on the brink. Or, if you believe in the shrinking possibility that conservative Christo-Fascism can ultimately be destroyed, vote for the remaining candidate, i.e. H.R. Clinton.

Your choice. If you use your head, the only viable option becomes quickly obvious.

On the opening night of the DNC, again on C&L, I posted a comment, again describing what I see as the only salient issue in the election, and again got one positive response along with a few that suggest embedded skepticism, with no forward thinking apparent.

Democratic National Convention Live Thread

How this campaign goes depends a lot on Hillary. She has to find a way to get the liberals to back her and that may put her in a compromising position with her big money backers.

I want to see how she tapdances around that.

frugalchariot to didnotpa
AFAIC, the ONLY remaining issue in this election is the future of the Supreme Court. Elect Trump and turn the court into a Christo-Fascist entity for the next 30 years, or elect Hillary and turn it (finally!) into a liberal ‘we the people’ oriented entity.There’s one vacant seat now, and there will likely be anywhere from 2-4 more during the next 4-8 years.

The consequences of a Trump win in November could not be more dire.

Pokthecat to frugalchariot
Thank you!!

Stephen See to frugalchariot
It’s not a given that Hillary is going to make good SCOTUS decisions. In fact, it’s another opportunity to say “well Trump would have been worse so suck it up”.

frugalchariot to Stephen See
It’s ‘a given’ that Trump will make horseshit SCOTUS choices — he’s already released a list of his top eleven choices, and if you like Christo-Fascists you’ll love it.

John F A to Stephen See
I know, right? it’s not like Hillary is known for her great choices or making amazing decisions.

frugalchariot to John F A
And Drumpf is, of course. Right?

Well then I expect Hillary to work extra hard.

Don’t expect liberals to roll over this time.

ian m to didnotpa
I, on the other hand, expect Hillary to lose, if what’s past is prologue

And next, a pair of Right-Wing Watch links that explicitly delineate the right wing plans “to infuse their priorities throughout the federal government’s executive branch” and to, with Trump in the White House, turn the Supreme Court into what would amount to a conservative (fascist?) nightmare — at least for Americans with an IQ greater than, say, 75.

Revealed: The Right-Wing Movement’s Agenda For Trump’s First 180 Days

The Conservative Action Project . . . a network of more than 100 right-wing leaders created in 2008 as “an offshoot” of the secretive far-right Council for National Policy, making it part of an array of conservative coalitions that bloomed around and after the election of Barack Obama. . . .

Among the proposals, which signal the intense desire of right-wing organizations to infuse their priorities throughout the federal government’s executive branch agencies:

*Immediately rescind all Obama Executive Orders consistent with recommendations by Constitutional and trusted advisors such as The Federalist Society, The Heritage Foundation, and other conservative advisors and transition committees.
*Terminate all executive branch individuals still within their probationary period and freeze hiring for all regulatory positions.
*The President should eliminate taxpayer funding of Planned Parenthood using executive action and seek a permanent legislative solution.
*The President should freeze and withdraw all regulatory activity on the Obama energy and climate agenda.
*Submit legislation to repeal Obamacare in its entirety.
*The President should support the rule of law and reject amnesty proposals and fully enforce and strengthen interior enforcement measures in the United States.

[. . .]

Among its 2016 releases was a March memo urging Senate Republicans to be resolute in refusing to consider a nominee from President Obama to fill the Supreme Court seat that became vacant with the death of Justice Antonin Scalia. Here’s an excerpt from the group’s thoughtful and rational rhetoric:

“The president and his liberal allies know what is at stake and so do we. It is nothing short of their intent to eradicate precious constitutional rights. These leftists have made clear their first target is our 1st Amendment right to political speech and the silencing of conservative voices. They mock the 2nd Amendment right of the people to protect themselves and their families and are determined to take away our constitutional right to bear arms. They welcome the prospect of unleashing unaccountable federal agencies like the IRS and EPA to impose a liberal policy agenda that will harm Americans and punish any who dare to disagree with their worldview. And not least of all, they vow to use the Court’s power to impose an “unconditional surrender” in their cultural war against our fundamental institutions of faith, family, marriage, home, and school — and will wipe out any pro-life protections, instead imposing abortion on-demand, up to the moment of birth, paid for by the taxpayers.”

Finally, this from James Inhofe (R-OK):

Inhofe urged Republicans to rally behind Donald Trump’s presidential bid, pointing to the future of the Supreme Court. Metaxas said that “it’s kind of game over for republican democracy” if Hillary Clinton appoints liberal justices to the bench.

“How can we possibly remain America if you have six or seven Sotomayors on the court?” he asked.

Inhofe said that while the court is admirably delaying many of the Obama administration’s environmental initiatives, its direction would shift if Clinton were allowed to fill the current vacancy.

“Stop and think how significant it is if they make one change,” he said. “It doesn’t have to be all Sotomayors, it could just be one more change and we’re through.”

As I noted above, The consequences of a Trump win in November could not be more dire. The bottom line is that we may not win a Senate majority this year, and we most likely won’t win the House. But one thing is certain: IF we win the Presidency, we also win the Supreme Court which, if we lose, the consequences are too damn dire to contemplate. We can work to take the Senate and House every two years, but if the SCOTUS becomes majority conservative, it’ll likely be 20-30 years before we can even make a dent.

I.O.W., vote for Hillary, or . . . 

Noise of hammers . . .

Anyone? You know the ones:

Hammers beating, night and day,
In the palace newly reared,
Beating it to dust and clay:
Other hammers, muffled hammers,
Silent hammers of decay.


P.S.: Jim Bakker: If Trump Loses, Supreme Court Will Shut Me Down

If that’s not a grand reason to vote for Hillary, I don’t know what is.


38 thoughts on “The Watering Hole; Thursday July 28 2016; “Noise of Hammers”: RNC Convention; DNC Convention; Election 2016

  1. This liberal has, in fact, rolled over. I like the ACA. I like NATO. I mostly even like people, even those who are different from me. A Trump presidency would harm more people than a Clinton presidency. One could argue that a Clinton presidency would help more people if she were more progressive. She could certainly help more people if she had a Congress more willing to work with her. Perhaps the progressive purists could quit mourning their revolution and seek to make one within the establishment by doing what the Tea Party did and running more like-minded candidates for local and state offices. I

    • Touche. I’m at least as much of a Democratic Socialist as Bernie, and I supported him all the way in any way available. Now that Hillary is the candidate I’m not overly thrilled. But neither am I blind and dumb — I KNOW what would happen should Trump win, and I KNOW that both the short and long term effects would be devastating to say the least. So I bite the bullet, will vote for Hillary, and continue to support and work for the Sanders ‘revolution.’

      It’s just that simple.

      • I think of it as my political revolution not Sander’s. Oh he came out with a megaphone this past year with an older language that I grew up with; understanding the code of my youth. I’m thankful for that, and it was strangely fun, but worn out too. It’s past time for a woman to tackle this shitstorm.

        • It’s past time for a woman to tackle this shitstorm

          Amen. And though I’ll not live to see it, it’s also way past time for a Native American, an Asian American, a Hispanic American, a Polynesian American, a Muslim American — plus any American of any blend of the above — to tackle and hopefully SOLVE once and for all the nonsensical shitstorm that believes that only old white men have the ‘right’ — or even the ability — to serve as President.

          Oh, and while we’re in the process of expansion, let’s also add the restriction that any man who has hairdo multiple comb-overs is suitable for no job anywhere that’s higher than that of a min. wage casino toilet scrubber.

          • You and I may not, but forward, frustrating baby steps, but forward with care and empathy for those who don’t share my white privilege.

  2. Fox getting the most out of one guy holding a sign. The headline mentions a “Bernie Army” and seems to be cheering lack of unity.

    I was a Bernie supporter. I still am. But he’s not the nominee. Sometimes your candidate advances, sometimes they don’t. But as Frugal so aptly pointed out, allowing this one to go to Trump just because is simply not acceptable. HRC will make a fine president in my opinion. The same simply can’t be said of Trump.

  3. I’ll vote for Hillary, but only if it’s close in my state. If she’s going to win New York easily, then I will use my vote to help the Green Party get 5% of the national vote. If they do, then they will automatically get ballot access to not just the POTUS election in four years, but the Representative and Senate races in two years, as well.

    In fact, if everyone living in the die hard red states, the ones that Hillary doesn’t have a chance in hell of winning (like the deep south) voted for Jill Stein, it would help the Greens and not hurt the Dems in the least. The electoral votes are all-or-nothing, so casting a vote for her knowing she won’t benefit from it really is wasting your vote.

    I can understand wanting to be a part of history, but use your vote wisely. Despite what the Republicans insist is happening, we only get one vote.

    • I live in Purple Colorado, so no matter how Green is my attitude, if I vote Green I’m effectively supporting Drumpf – a mortal sin of the worst kind. I used to live in Arizona which was, until recently, bright Red. Today, however, the Hispanic vote is approaching large enough to turn the state Purple. If I still lived in AZ, i.o.w., I still couldn’t vote Green, I’d have to vote for Hillary because she remains our sole hope for a long-term liberal SCOTUS.

      Actually, if you think about it, the only hope for eventual Green Party significance is to make damn sure that RED is disappeared for good.

  4. Many on the right won’t vote for Hillary because she liestm. They don’t trust her. Yet, they’ll vote for Trump. Within a single sentence he often contradicts himself. And certainly if you go back into time, anything he says now is pretty much the opposite of what he’s said in the past.

    There was a meme a few weeks ago, when the e-mail investigation concluded and cleared her of any criminal wrongdoing; someone said “Just admit that you hate her for no reason.”

        • Couldn’t agree more. Hate and fear are anathema to life, and have no basis in a genuine reality. For me the idea goes way back. I spent my first 18 years in S. MN (NR), and never was exposed to hate or fear. I was carefully taught that people were people, that everyone was fun to talk with, and that they all were interesting, each in his/her own way. I still feel that way. I can strongly dislike someone — Trump, e.g. — but that doesn’t mean I have to hate and fear every blond headed European immigrant derivative (were that the case, me looking in the mirror would scare the shit out of me). So I started there and am still waiting to find people to hate. Teabaggers are almost there, but that’s another story. 🙂

    • They just parrot what they’ve been told. They trust no sources other than those that confirm their beliefs. This is why, in spite of numerous investigations, we still hear “BENGHAZI!!!!!!”.

      • And the right-wing noise machine is so incredibly efficient at propagating the lie. So this happens to me a lot on FB:

        RW “friend” posts some crap.
        I think, “that can’t be true, but since I’m not sure I’ll look it up”
        So I google it.
        I find page, after page, of right-wing websites that have spread that lie.
        (At this point, I’m pretty certain it’s not entirely truthful.)

        I change my search to include the word “snopes” or “politifact” so I can try to ascertain the real story.

        And most often what was posted by the RW “friend” is of course a lie.

        • I have the same experience, and post what I find. No one ever addresses the evidence, or responds in any way. At least they’re friends, if I do the same in different forums the response is to call me a “libtard”.

          • “Libtard” is, I assume, a rather clumsy abbrev. for ‘Liberal Retard.’ Interesting that there need be no ‘abbrev.’ for “Republican Retard.” “Retard” alone suffices as THE abbrev. for “Rep . . . ” etc. 🙂

  5. What an interesting point in history we are living. The Republican Party running an inept, unqualified candidate, Scalia’s timely demise, the Fox Follies, ahhh ain’t life sweet!

    I saw O’Reilly calling the faithful to circle their wagons to hold off the progressive, hard left onslaught against Fox and to protect big brave O’Reilly because he thinks people like us Zoosters want him dead.

  6. My sister just read this on her smart phone:

    When you’re dead, you’re dead. The only pain felt is in others.
    It’s the same with stupid people!

    • Funny how the words “stupid people” have, this day, come to simply mean “Trump.” Wonder why that is? I mean, when I was a college kid, “trump” and “no trump” had more to do with various applications requiring a deck of cards and had little or no connection to either ‘stupid people’ or politics or . . .

      Oh. Wait. Never mind.

  7. MSNBC – Breaking News: Tonight Hillary Clinton Accepts Nomination

    They are doing this just to vex me. Telling me shit I’ve known about for weeks and calling it ‘breaking news’ doesn’t impress me as reporting.

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