The Watering Hole, Monday, September 26, 2016: Look Who’s Talking About Trying To Get Away With Lying?

Well, the moment many of us have been waiting for to be over is nearly upon us. The first of the Election 2016 Presidential Debates between a well-qualified, well-experienced woman and an unqualified, inexperienced man-child will be held 9:00 PM EDT tonight at Hofstra University, in Hempstead, NY. (For those unfamiliar with New York, it’s out on what we call, “The Island.”) The format, as determined by the Commission on Presidential Debates, will call for lirpas in the first round. If both survive, battle continues with the Ahn’woon. The moderator for the first debate will be NBC News’ Anchor and Keith Olbermann-sound alike Lester Holt, who took over for the much ridiculed Brian Williams after the latter made claims about his first-hand experiences that could not be verified by other people who were actually there, some whom of also claimed Williams wasn’t. The final straw for Williams came when he boasted he was the first “on the scene” to interview Neil Armstrong as he set foot on the moon. Alert fact-checkers noted Williams was only ten years old at the time, and raised considerable doubt about the possibility the Williams family could afford to send Young Brian to astronaut school. The story was later deemed by the majority of fact-checkers as “Mostly False” and Williams was suspended for six months.

The media’s practically prepared to name Donald Trump the winner tonight if he doesn’t trip on the way out to the podium and mess his adult diapers. Hillary Clinton, on the other hand, will be declared to be “hiding something” if she can’t answer questions based on false premises, or adequately (to the Republican side) explain why she hasn’t mitigated their outrage over Benghazi, when the facts and the evidence showed the Republicans did more to kill Ambassador J. Christopher Stevens, Information Officer Sean Smith, and two CIA operatives, Glen Doherty and Tyrone Woods, than Secretary Clinton ever did. She asked Republicans for more funding for security specifically at Benghazi, among other places, and was turned down. There was never any order by her or anyone else to “stand down” and not send a rescue team. Every lie they’ve told about her has been debunked. But since people aren’t convinced by facts (it’s a problem we all have), it’s hard to convince these people that everything they want to do as a result of the Benghazi lies they believe is no longer justifiable. They’ll say to do it anyway because it’s what they want to do to her.

It should come as no surprise that the Trump Campaign is calling for moderators not to be allowed to fact-check the candidates. Newt Gingrich, a Terran-based life form with aspirations of invading and colonizing the Moon, actually defended this by tweeting

Gingrich has defended the theory that the way to a Republican voter’s heart was through the emotional door of his psyche, not the rational, fact-based, reasoning part of his brain.

Former CBS News Anchor Bob Schieffer, a personal friend of the Bush family and a former presidential debate moderator himself, had a suggestion. He said to let the candidates have the first crack at fact-checking in their responses, and if they don’t correct the record then the moderator should before moving on. And this infuriates Conservatives because they don’t believe important decisions should be based on a calm, rational review of the facts of the situation. They feel reaction to a crisis, especially an attack of some kind, should be swift (even if not all the facts are in), decisive (even if decided wrongly, because that honestly doesn’t matter to them), and over-powering (even if excessive). What matters, they’ll tell you, is that it felt like it was the right thing to do. Because that’s how they think you should govern, by doing what feels like the right thing to do, not by doing what actually is the right thing to do. You can expect Trump to Gish Gallop and spew one lie (or false premise, or extreme exaggeration of a technically true point) after another, inundating Clinton with so many false premises, straw man arguments, rambling fragmented sentences, innuendo and meaningless gobbledygook that a coherent yet accurate response will be impossible. And they’ll make a big deal out of the fact that she couldn’t, or wouldn’t, address the question asked of her even though the “question asked of her” was based on the fantasy worldview of someone so frightened by the truth that he’ll stop at nothing to prevent being exposed. Trump is a liar and a con-man, and his entire income structure is based on maintaining a completely false image as a shrewd businessman, unafraid to take on a political system he personally bragged about exploiting. And that’s why he wants no fact-checkers. He won’t be bringing any to the debate.

This is our daily open thread and may also possibly serve as our live-blogging of the debate itself. Come join us.

18 thoughts on “The Watering Hole, Monday, September 26, 2016: Look Who’s Talking About Trying To Get Away With Lying?

  1. Donald Trump’s Week of Misrepresentations, Exaggerations and Half-Truths

    We subjected every statement made by both the Republican and Democratic candidates — in speeches, in interviews and on Twitter — to our magazine’s rigorous fact-checking process. The conclusion is inescapable: Trump’s mishandling of facts and propensity for exaggeration so greatly exceed Clinton’s as to make the comparison almost ludicrous.

    Though few statements match the audacity of his statement about his role in questioning Obama’s citizenship, Trump has built a cottage industry around stretching the truth. According to POLITICO’s five-day analysis, Trump averaged about one falsehood every three minutes and 15 seconds over nearly five hours of remarks.

    In raw numbers, that’s 87 erroneous statements in five days.

    Hillary mainly lies about her personal miscues, while Trump lies about everything. I expect a veritable Gish Gallop to come out of Trump’s mouth throughout the debate. He won’t be able to stay on topic either, as he tends to ramble from subject to subject.

  2. Fact checking Donald Trump is, for all practical purposes, automatic since everything he ever says about anything or anyone anywhere is false.

    Seriously: can anyone recall anything he’s ever said to be true? Only thing I remember is when he said if Ivanka wasn’t his daughter he’d . . . you know. But even there, the “wasn’t his daughter” part is probably false because . . . well, you know.

    Not sure I’ll be able to muster the guts to watch the debate tonight or not.

    • Checking Trumpy’s facts is also all but useless. Anyone who is still even considering voting for him is likely to get all their “news” from FAUX”News” and hate radio and/or white supremacists. So? They will continue to believe the opposite of the truth no matter how many members of the “librul media” prove that Trumpy is lying. They also seem to be genetically incapable of recognizing irony, hypocrisy, and contradictions on their own so our only real option is to outnumber them at the polls in sufficient numbers to ensure the election isn’t close enough to steal.

      • Amen. Their sole inspiration comes when they conclude that their candidate shares their hatred for ____________ (whatever it might be). Trump is very good at sharing hatreds and making the gullible think he’ll do exactly what they want, and more.

  3. It is a telling tale of the state of our governance process that one candidate intends to lie his ass off, and has effectively gagged the moderator from disputing the lies he intends to tell.
    The rest of us will merely be gagged by the untruths and blatant bullshit that will be foisted upon us.
    Hoping that Clinton figures out how to come off as affable, competent and unruffled by the blarney Drumpf vomits.

  4. Anyone interested in live-blogging the Great Emasculation? It could be fun!

    And by “fun” I mean sickeningly infuriating.

    As Wayne said, we can use his post for the live-blogging, or I can put up something else. If you have any thoughts either way, leave a comment!

    • I vote for a new page, posted around an hour prior to the start of the debate. Notification of said new page can be posted on this page.

      BTW, the screen on my laptop went totally white. The warranty expired in July! I almost died because all my research and digital file are on it but I am able to turn it on and access the file through the network. Yes, I have downloaded copies of those files to the refurbished desktop I acquired about two months ago. Before I get the screen fixed I need to replace my water heater which is leaking, and the toilet flapper needs replacing and …

      • Are you running Windows 10? Mine did an automatic update, which I thought I had disabled, and it killed my internet connection. I finally ended up doing a complete system restore, after the bootloader got corrupted, so I had to start out with a brand new, 5 year old, Windows 7 computer. I was able to save almost everything but I lost my free Windows 10 upgrade.

        • My local computer repair jockey said that whatever I do, do NOT upgrade to Windows 10. He said he spends almost as much time helping customers back to win 7 as he does with genuine repairs. I’m still with 7, and have had not a single problem. Meanwhile, milady’s computer at her job was upgraded to 10 and she says it’s a bummer and not worth having.

          • I’m comfortable installing and reinstalling operating systems and I’m positively anal about setting backup and restore points so I decided to give 10 a try while it was free. Since my first response to any computer question is “I hate Bill Gates” I figured that I would, essentially, sign up for beta testing and submit data because they did get a lot right with 10.

            I kind of liked it for a while. The main thing that they got right is that it actually loads fewer worthless apps than 7 unless you tell it to. Other than that? Nothing special. But? At least it worked up until the damned auto-update. Now that I have a relatively pristine Copy of 7 I realized that part of my relatively slow boot time was my own doing.

            I think, given time and using a newer computer, 10 will be a winner. It is certainly much better than “Vista”, which I consider a complete disaster, or 8. And, when worse comes to worst, I can still always fall back on my Linux box for everything but doing my tax returns.

        • Yes, I’m running 10 and gotten somewhat used to it. I went through a recent update that took several hours and everything was fine. I’ve absolutely no doubt that the cause of my problem is due to some Windex cleaner that ran down the screen while I reached for a paper towel. I’m pretty sure it fried something!

      • I like pachy’s idea – new page for the live-blogging. I’ll either be on the twitter or watching the Mets game. If they were out of it I’d definitely watch the debate. But they’re still init, so I’m conflicted.

        Zooey, can you set that up for tonight? Thanks. 🙂

        • Yep, just about to work on it.

          Cats and I will be watching together, but only I will do any live-blogging — so I don’t open any major arteries.

          EDIT: Okay, the post will come up at 5 PT.

          • Actually we are going to watch the debate. The Mets are playing the Miami Marlins, who lost one of the best young pitchers in the game, Jose Fernandez, in a boating accident over the weekend. He was 24 years old.

            They had an emotional pre-game ceremony. And the first Marlin batter hit a home run on the third pitch he saw. It’s 7-0 now. Jane and I decided, “Screw it. Let them have this one. They need it to help them get through their unbelievable loss. We’ll watch the debate.

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