The Watering Hole: February 24 — Punking the Imperial Walker

Part 1:

Part 2:

I listened to the entire twenty minutes of this conversation — the things I suffer through for my Zoosters — and I am not going to ask the same of you.  Here’s a brief run-down:

Scott “Imperial” Walker, who is apparently notoriously unavailable to the phone, readily takes a call from “David Koch,” who is actually Ian Murphy of the BuffaloBeast.  I admit it, I was astonished to hear Scott Walker begin to report to “David Koch” as if it were nothing new or unusual.  It was absolutely mundane, run-of-the-mill ‘here’s what’s going down in Wisconsin’ reporting to his loathsome corporate over-lord.

 

Can an Imperial Walker get some walkies?

Ian Murphy as “David Koch” just allows Scott Walker (sorry, I won’t call him Governor) to ramble on and on, talking about his cleverness in stopping the paychecks of the Democratic members of his legislature, by a devilishly clever plan to lock the checks in their desks in the statehouse; blathering on about ‘agreeing’ to talk to the minority leader if all fourteen runaway members come back to the state, but it’s all a ruse to get a quorum, and dammit if those Democrats are too stupid to figure it out; and gushing one and on about how tough he is, and how he’s like Reagan dealing with PATCO and the Berlin Wall all rolled into one super-fabulous package.  Damn, the public sector union members in Wisconsin really don’t know what they’re dealing with, do they?

Walker is a guy who says Andrew Breitbart does “good stuff” and Joe Scarborough is “one of us,” so are we really surprised that he gleefully planned for his little union killing “bomb” to drop immediately after the totally awesome Super Bowl win by the Green Bay Packers?  It’s in the phone call with “David Koch,” people, I listened to the whole thing.

Here’s a gem, spoken by Walker himself:

This is about public sector unions.  You are actually having taxpayers money being used to pay to lobby for spending more of taxpayer’s money.  It’s absolutely ridiculous.

That’s rich, isn’t it?  Walker is funneling millions of taxpayer dollars — money Wisconsin apparently can’t afford to spend because of the looming “budget crisis” — to the very rich and big business, in the form of tax cuts.  But that’s A-okay, because as long as wealth is being re-distributed UPWARD, it’s not a fucking problem in Rightwing Fucktard World.

Bottom line:  What’s happening in Wisconsin, Ohio, Indiana, and elsewhere is a coordinated effort by Republican governors to do the bidding of self-interested billionaires, who couldn’t care less about the “small people” in this country, and crush the unions and the middle/working classes in the United States, in order to wring the very last dollar out of our pockets and leave us a destitute Third World country.

What!?  Isn’t that a bit over the top?  No, not at all.  People like the Koch brothers no longer need customers to buy their wares.  They are too rich to care.  If their portfolios drop by a fraction or two because Americans are too poor to buy what they’re selling, they will simply pull up stakes and move to another country — and start all over again.

I’d say the Koch brothers et al are trying to kill us, but to do that they’d have to care.   They won’t actually kill us.  They’d rather leave us in poverty, to suffer like the scum they believe us to be — and that includes you, Governor Scott Walker of Wisconsin.

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144 thoughts on “The Watering Hole: February 24 — Punking the Imperial Walker

  1. Itcould very well be that what is happening in Libya and what happened in Egypt may be coming to Wisconsin, Indiana, Ohio.

    Rick Scott is rejecting the high speed rail funding so it will probably go to California or another state.
    I think that is Okay because this is the corporate rapist that the teatards elected and this is the product they get in return.
    Florida is already like a trip back in time when you cross over interstate 10 and he plans to keep it in the plantation days.

  2. As if Governor Walker isn’t disgusting enough he sucks on his spit while he’s talking. Gross.

  3. A couple of days ago on the Zoo I said I thought Walker was trying to emulate the GOP God, Reagan, when he fired the air traffic controllers to break that union. Of course in this punk’d phone conversation Walker proudly confirmed that.

    Yeah, it’s dominoes alright Scotty, but they ain’t gonna fall the way you thought.

  4. What I find most interesting (actually, it’s ALL I find interesting, and in the grand scheme of interesting, not very) about Scott Walker is his bald spot. It’s seldom visible, but every now and then, boing, there it is in the top-rear-center of that otherwise black bush he wears on his head. From what I can tell, it’s about the size of a sow’s ear, looks kinda like he might sleep on a small belt sander, or some sort of similar device.

    I hope the next time “Koch” calls Walker he asks about it. I know I would.

  5. I just realized that the the usually vocal GOP senators and representatives have been absent from many of the news programs since the marches in Madison started. And then Ohio and Indiana decided to abandon their union busting plans. Walker thinks he’s Ronald Reagan (yuck) but he’s going to end up more like Richard Nixon before this is over.

  6. “As if Governor Walker isn’t disgusting enough he sucks on his spit while he’s talking. Gross.”

    I wonder if that is all the time, or only when he’s, erm, engaging a big Koch?

    • One thing I left out of this post, by accident, was that when “Koch” said that after Walker had “crushed those bastards,” he’d fly Walker to “Cali” for a good time.

      Sure, accepting such a trip proves Walker is completely owned by the real Koch brothers, but Walker didn’t even hesitate when “Koch” referred the people of WI as “bastards” and not even a hint of an objection regarding “crushing” them.

      These are the people of the state he governs! That is shocking behavior.

  7. i’m hopelessly optimistic by nature, and i see a new wave of grass-root progressives morphing out of this total abortion. the teabigots have had their moment in the sun, and they’re about to be bulldozed by a new waive of left leaning, young middle class voters.

    facebook has lit up with conversation and comments regarding this whole assfucking of a free society. many young people have discovered they were sucked into an back whole during the 2010 elections, and have learned a tough lesson…..bring on 2012!!

  8. Having heard and read numerous excerpts of Walker’s conversation with the fake Koch, I can reliably, I think, confirm a new and refreshed meaning to the concept of “Koch Succor”, and I’d like to herein and hereby publicly thank Scott Walker for his inadvertent expansion of English language subtlety.

  9. Shep Smith on Fox News telling the truth about Wisconsin, saying that it’s union-busting and not about the budget.

    Read it over at HuffPo

    Shep must have some pretty good blackmail material on Ailes or Murdoch in order for him to tell the truth, go against the “agenda” and still keep his job at Fox.

  10. Goldman Sachs Says GOP Budget Plan Will Hurt Economy

    The GOP spending cuts have been criticized again.

    A Goldman Sachs economist has warned that the $60 billion package of spending cuts proposed by the Republicans to counter President Obama’s proposal could slow economic growth.

    And if budget wrangling between the Obama administration and the Republican-dominated House of Representatives led to a shutdown? That, according to Goldman, could cost $8 billion a week, the Financial Times reported.

    Goldman’s warning follows Treasury secretary Timothy Geithner’s recent claims that the Republican plan would cost jobs.

    In the confidential report, obtained by ABC News, among other news outlets, Goldman Sachs economic forecaster Alec Phillips said the GOP plan could slow economic growth by up to 2 percent. Even a compromise deal, with $25 billion in cuts could slow growth by 1 percent.

    If Wall Street doesn’t like a GOP plan that tells you how bad it really is.

  11. “facebook has lit up with conversation and comments regarding this”

    The problem with trying to draw any conclusions from this is the highly “self selecting” nature of FB networks. One is opening up to the fallacy of the Hasty Generalization in a manner akin to Paulene Kael’s lament about Nixon(?), Reagan(?) (I’ve seen both claimed): “How could he get elected? Nobody I know voted for him!”

  12. RUC, I agree. It’s ironic that Walker’s talking about laying off workers. He’s going to get laid off as well.

  13. From “The Crusades Weren’t That Bad” category:

    Santorum (heh) spreads the word. I must say it’s oh so much fun for a pro-life fanatic to embrace a Christianity that endorsed mass murder. But, again, one wonders what world today’s far right (which now runs the GOP) lives in. George Bush insisted that America was not engaged in a Christian war against Islam, but a democracy’s war against terrorism and tyranny. But even after the misadventure in Iraq, the hard right has moved toward a war of civilizations rhetoric:

    http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0211/50054.html

    Commentary’s Jonathan S. Tobin spanks Ricky:

    “Santorum’s shaky grasp of history is bad enough, but by using the same speech in which he defended the Crusades to speak in praise of contemporary American military intervention in the Middle East, he has made a colossal blunder…. ”

    http://www.commentarymagazine.com/2011/02/23/rick-the-lionheart-santorum-forgets-you-don%E2%80%99t-have-to-hate-christendom-to-hate-the-crusades/

  14. A Goldman Sachs economist has warned that the $60 billion package of spending cuts proposed by the Republicans to counter President Obama’s proposal could slow economic growth …

    Actually, I’ve seen zero evidence that the Republican goal is anything other than to ‘slow economic growth.’ Understand that for those addicted to Koch Succor, the only things that count are power and authority they gain by handing ever more money to billionaires, and the best way to achieve those goals is for them to regain full power of the state ASAP; to accomplish that Obama must go, and the Democrats must be humiliated with the blame for the economic collapse, for the lack of jobs, etc. ad inf. It’s really just that simple.

    We live in a world where liars tend to rule, and where the dumb and naive tend to support rulers who are liars.

  15. Santorum’s rewriting of the history of the Crusades sounds exactly like former TP regular, Trajan, who claimed that the invasions were entirely defensive in nature–and that the Muslims were always completely in the wrong, and deserved to be driven out of Palestine.

    • This was a weird article. Wonder if this is going to blow up into something monstrous..
      Another Runaway General: Army Deploys Psy-Ops on U.S. Senators by Michael Hastings, RollingStone.

      “The U.S. Army illegally ordered a team of soldiers specializing in “psychological operations” to manipulate visiting American senators into providing more troops and funding for the war, Rolling Stone has learned – and when an officer tried to stop the operation, he was railroaded by military investigators.”

  16. frugal, I sadly agree with your analysis. It’s too hard for some people to seek out more than one source of information, takes them out of their comfort zone.
    Let’s hope the working class in America wakes up in November 2012.

      • From TPM:

        At a time when some Republicans are calling to defund public broadcasting, the Corporation for Public Broadcasting has added a link on its homepage to an appearance Fred Rogers made before the Senate Subcommittee on Communications on May 1, 1969, when President Nixon was proposing to cut federal funding for public broadcasting from $20 million to $10 million.

        What a great video. I used to watch Mr. Rogers ever day after school growing up. So did the oldest of my children.

  17. Thanks for the Mr.Rogers link, Muse. He was, indeed, special. My kids loved him. But of course, he had no corporate sympathies so he was a convenient target of the Republican right.

    Amurka. What a wonnerful country. Indeed. Only money counts, and only when directed into the proper hands.

  18. The insanity continues.

    Providence, RI Issues Dismissal Notices To Every Teacher

    In a statement, Mayor Angel Taveras said that because the deadline for informing teachers about employment changes came before the budget for next year could be determined, the move was necessary.

  19. Ebb, sweet. The teachers should stay home and file en masse for unemployment. When parents call about how their children are going to advance to the next grade, forward their phone calls to the Mayor.

    Stupidity has consequences.

  20. badmoodman, where do you find your excellent avatars?

    Just between you and me, in a little place called……….the internet.

    Shhhhh….

  21. Well, on my screen the internet is only 17″, diagonally speaking.

    Technically, I guess it’s only 16.4″.

    😉

  22. Of course, it would be far cheaper overall if education was only made available to those who could afford to pay top price to privately educate their children. I mean, think of all the money we’d save as a country. Think how many more listeners Beck and Limbaugh would gain.

    I can see, really, how most any Republican would have a hard time seeing ANY downside to the equation. And I mean, really, what possible downside could there be? Why in the world do the poor, even the middle class, need to be educated? And think of the savings! No more school construction or maintenance, no more need for those horribly expensive and basically useless public libraries — I mean, if people can’t read, what the hell good is a library? And think how many colleges and universities we could close! Think how much money THAT would save!!!

    YES! (I’m getting excited here!) No more of that education shit and there’s all that money currently being wasted that could be put into the pockets of politicians and rich dudes! Yee haw!

    Sigh. Ok, go ahead, someone shoot me. I admit it: I’m a traitor to the Amurkan dream.

  23. I think it’s actually in the GOP’s interest to keep the economy tanking. They’ll blame it on Obama, and use it to try and keep him to one term.

  24. If you hate Palin (duh) you’ll love the latest manuscript leakage. You know you wanna look:

    1) Todd and Sarah Palin Had Marital Problems, Neglected the Kids

    2) Palin Sent Letters to the Editor Using Other Names, Praising Herself

    3) Palin Calls Her Political Career a ‘Divine Calling’

    4) Todd Palin Laughed at a Doctored Nude Photo of His Wife

    5) Palin Couldn’t Remember Her Public Stance on Abstinence

    6) Bailey: Palin Blamed Me for Troopergate

    http://www.thedailybeast.com/blogs-and-stories/2011-02-23/sarah-palin-tell-all-more-details-marital-problems-nude-photo-more/?cid=hp:mainpromo7

  25. 3) Palin Calls Her Political Career a ‘Divine Calling’

    She obviously picked-up the wrong phone – there’s nothing ‘divine’ about this screecher.

  26. “Isn’t there a sleazy massage parlor in Wassilla named the Divine Calling?”

    I don’t know, perhaps we could ask Todd?

  27. Ebb: “there’s nothing ‘divine’ about this screecher.”

    Reminds me of a line by Emily Dickinson:

    “… when the Wind is within — / Can the Dumb — define the Divine?”

    Good ol’ Miss Emily D.!

    I have a dollar that says Sarah P. has never heard of Emily D. (and even if she has, wouldn’t be able understand a word).

  28. Terry, Zooey did a post on that from the Mother Jones article on Tuesday. Then she moved it down the page with the weekly ‘toons’.

  29. OK found it finally. Douglas Adams wrote a satire of the New Gilded Age several decades ago.

    In ‘Life the Universe and Everything’ , Arthur, Ford and Slartibartfast find themselves on a heavily-armed, airborne party, one which has been going on for centuries. Heavily armed because the descendants of the original party-goers have to defned themselves from the remains of the society below on the planet, who have to put up with their rapacious privations as the party sustains itself by stealing resources in order to sustain itself

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Life,_the_Universe_and_Everything

  30. A bit off topic, but I have apparently learned something today. I’ve been trying to figure out what’s up with online booksellers, why sometimes their sales page for a particular book reads either “Temporarily out of stock” (Amazon), or “A new copy is not available … at this time” (B-N), or “Sorry: This title is not currently available” (BooksAMillion). Turns out (so I’m told) that those statements usually mean that those sellers don’t have a hard copy in the warehouse. What it doesn’t say is that the book remains just an order form away. Since it’s in ‘virtual’ (unprinted) form, it might take an extra day or two, but other than that, no worries.

    From the horse’s mouth (??), publisher says, in answer to my query:

    What they [online sellers] do is when a
    customer orders the book the request to print the order quantity is made,
    and shipped directly to the customer through a special retailer to
    distributor to printing facility to customer process. This means they do not
    have to actually pay for the books until the books are purchased by
    customers.

    Works for me. Next up, e-books. Another publishing maze. I’ll see what I can manage in that department.

    This author shit is harder than working for a living used to be!

    Oh, one last detail. The publisher also has an online sell-purchase thingee. “Mine” is http://sbpra.com/plnelson

    Ok, I’m done. Back to the real world.

  31. Would someone be kind enough to delete the 2:07p comment? The link finally took in the 2:09p comment. Thank you!

  32. The beginning of the end of an era.
    Godspeed to the astronauts for their safe journey and return.
    30 some years of the space shuttles, and two were lost along the way.
    Not to natural disasters but shoddy maintenance.

  33. No, the last scheduled launch of Endeavour is set for April 19 and will be commanded by Mark Kelly.

  34. Frugal,

    Digital printing technology has come a long way in the last decade. Your book could have easily had a production run of 25 or fewer copies, and as you mentioned, be replenished in a few days when they need more. When I started in the print business, the business model was print and then distribute. These days, we do it the other way around using machines that are similar to (but more robust than) office copiers.

    Thanks for the story, so far it’s very engaging and fun to read.

  35. oooo, check the second photo down on this page – magnificent – especially with a raptor, to the right, of the launching shuttle.

  36. What’s scarier is that just 52% of Americans know that the health care reform bill is still in place.

    I’m a little surprised that MORE people don’t think the bill was repealed. It’s all the GOP yaps about and it doesn’t help when you see ads for REPEAL OBAMACARE at sites like TPM. Geeze, just take anyone’s ad money, eh?

  37. wrocky – the novel is a grabber, isn’t it? It’ll keep flowing along – until you are looking for a sequel!

  38. Zxbe, we keep running into that same 20% just about everywhere. It’s a shame any of them vote.

    I’m starting to wonder if we are going to see these wide swings in the electorate every two years. Every election, the side that loses gets all fired up to get back on top. Obama had better pick a new vice president for the second term, who can win in 2016. Biden will be too old by then.

  39. Westboro Church hacked by Anonymous

    Anonymous, the loosely organized group of Web “hacktivists,” and the Westboro Baptist Church, known mainly for soliciting publicity through protests at funerals, have been locked in a war of words for the last few weeks. Thursday, Anonymous put those words in actions, taking down the Westboro Baptist Church Web sites. Advantage: Anonymous.

    • The problem with that persistent 20% is that they ALWAYS show up in the voting booth. ALWAYS.

      As evidenced by the 2010 election results, Dems tend to get all pissy and stay home. That’s a deadly mistake, and we’re paying for it now.

  40. ” On Sunday, Westboro responded on the church’s Web site, telling the “crybaby hackers” to “bring it.”

    One thing I learned several years ago, by observation, is that you cannot mess with 4Chan!

  41. Listened to it all. I was intrigued by the (several) long pauses, at which time Walker could have just shut up and waited for “David” (Ian) to say something. But he didn’t, and proceeded to pontificate at further length.

    But there were some nuances (well, to my ear, anyway) — when the conversation begins, Walker is at the moust nervous point of the conversation (at least in his vocal mannerisms), sounding much more confident by the end of the call.

    Walker didn’t let the call just end — “David” (Ian) had made parting comment — the conversation was, for all purposes, over — and Walker suddenly burst into another couple of minutes of babble concerning how great he was.

    Early in the conversation Walker is eager to explain “the situation” there, including a fairly detailed assessment of his political strategy in this matter, and by the end he is telling personal anecdotes and geenrally prancing out his (self-appointed) awards for “David”.

    While sharing the political strategy information, Walker sounded like a (very nervous) soldier giving a debriefing to his commander. He was clearly far more interested in telling “David” everything “David” wanted to know about than guarding what he was saying or sharing. In the “Fluffery” part, Walker was clearly not feeling like he was talking to an equal — he was clearly speaking to a person he believes is in a superior position to him, and whom he needs (or will be advantaged by) impress(ing). (Lord, that was clumsy….)

    Well, that’s my take.

    • ThinkProgress has learned that NBC’s Meet the Press today booked AFL-CIO President Richard Trumka for Sunday.

      I say we pressure them to have a liberal or progressive voice EVERY WEEKEND.

    • Well, look who the cat dragged in — cagey cretin!! Long time, no see!

      I feel the same way about that phone call, cagey. It was cringe-worthy in several spots, and shameful the rest of the time.

  42. wrocky, thanks for the input. I’m new at this and sometimes it’s hard to figure the details, but I think I’m finally getting a grip. It’s the technology, bless it’s pea-pickin’ heart, that enables the changes. Every day I get closer to figuring things out. Maybe by a year from now ….

    And Ebb, thanks. Again!

  43. Hello, Zooey! Hello all.

    Yeah (sheepishly looking at foot, while scuffing the dirt), I’ve been lurking a bit, though. I lost my password and username here, and didn’t know I could recover them with my e-mail. Hey, I had an Atari 400 home computer when they came out… I just didn’t really keep up much with technology after that. 🙂

  44. I had a Cosmac Elf. I should say, I built a Cosmac Elf. I was a subscriber to Popular Electronics when, in 1975, it published the very first personal computer kit.

    • Very good article, muse. I really respect David Kay Johnston’s knowledge.

      This interesting…

      Politifact.com has a Wisconsin operation and it was also among those that got it wrong – 100 percent dead wrong — because it assumed the facts as stated by Gov. Walker and failed to question the underlying premise. Further, contrived assumptions make it is easy for the perpetrators of the misrepresentation to point to data that support a false claim, something Politifact missed entirely, on at least two occasions, in proclaiming false statements to be true.

      So they’re good, but they ain’t that good. 😉

  45. Oooh… build your own computer days. I got as far as the frame and most of the frame for one arm on a robot. Never got to the electric and mechanical parts though. Damn lazy kids…..

  46. I was mightily impressed with this Ian fellow when I first read about it. Mightily impressed.

    And I’ve been thinking, “Wouldn’t it be cool if we had groups of people all around the nation whose job it was to get at this information and bring it to the public? To keep light in the dark corners of our government and private establishments (etc.), and to inform the people of the findings. To protect the interests of the people by keeping them informed, and by investigating and verifying facts so that they do not tell a lie. An institution whose core ethics are Truth and Verification. An institution that prides itself on accuracy. What a great thing that would be, and a priceless tool for helping to preserve freedom and equal opportunities for everyone. If only it could be done…..”

    Then I realized that, oh yeah, we DID have that and in my lifetime.

    We used to call it the news.

    And even more disturbing was that, back in those days of the “Real News” (R.I.P.), I would have looked on this Ian’s stunt with, at best, slight mirth (because I don’t find prank calls all that funny, for myself that is), and at worst dissappointment at something that I would have considered just a “juvenile prank” because there was a professional establishment, operating within the law and bound by certain ethics, that took care of this kind of thing.

    My how times have changed.

    Go Ian!

  47. cageycretin,

    If you haven’t already done so, I highly recommend you read David Brock’s excellent book, “The Republican Noise Machine.” It gives a great history of how Conservatives have destroyed the news we see on our TV machines by insisting on the very un-journalistic approach of providing “balance” to the news. The news does not need to be “balanced.” There is the truth and there are the lies of the people who don’t want us to know the truth. Conservatives have managed to convince too many people that you have to hear both sides of the story and that they be given equal weight when presented to the viewer, and let the viewer decide who is telling the truth. In short, it’s how we ended up with Fox “News” Channel.

  48. Zooey,

    It’s enough to make one wonder what definition of “crisis” they are using. The primary reason most of them are having budget problems is because they insist on cutting taxes. Taxes may be evil, but they are a necessary evil, and they are the price we have to pay to have a civilized society. Conservatives, who truly do not believe in government, are driving this country toward anarchy. I honestly believe that if they had their way, all roads would be owned by private corporations who could charge any fee they want to let you drive on them; police and ambulance services would all be by subscription only; and all education would be controlled by private for-profit industries. Conservatives believe that if you can’t make money doing something, it isn’t worth doing at all. Which is precisely why Conservatives should never be allowed in public service (or running it, at least.) They have entirely the wrong approach to governance.

    • Wayne, I think they are purposefully breaking it in order to rebuild it (our government) in their new image, that wanted by their corporate puppet-masters, which will benefit them (politicians) but REALLY benefit those pulling the strings buying up Congress and all the judges.. I don’t like the way this is headed. I really can’t see anything stopping this. It feels like this country is evolving into something completely different and there is nothing we can do to stop it. They hold all the cards at this point.

    • Wayne,

      Those who call themselves “conservatives” and “tea partiers” have lost sight of what it means to be American. They focus so intently on the rugged individualist idea of Americans, that they forget about the commons — the things we all use and benefit from. These are the things we should gladly pay our taxes for, not complain and whine about the government “stealing” our money. To me, that is shameful.

  49. Zooey,

    I respect the Tribes (Humans, as they like to call themselves) because they respect Nature. They will not hunt the bison to extinction, or try to profit from killing them. They hunt for food and out of necessity. They would be the only ones I would allow to hunt bison. And I think it’s cool that they are able to revive an important part of their culture. We “non-Humans” have a lot to learn from these people.

  50. Time for beddie-bo-bo’s, or I’ll be all cross in the morning.

    Conservative: Binary thought in a digital world.

  51. Good night, cagey. Thanks for stopping by. Looking forward to seeing you visit more in the future. Unlike TP, we don’t have a troll problem. They are, in fact, the reason this site was founded.

  52. I’ll go one step further and say that if Tribal people want to hunt bison, that’s fine with me. It’s part of their tradition, their history, their heritage, and was born of both necessity and respect.

    Plus, such tribal privilege might just piss off white numb-nutted gun freaks. That can be fun to watch. From a distance, of course.

  53. Zooey, Bison Hunting…

    Totally against it. The herd is not big enough to warrant a thinning and they’re allowing the killing of these animals as they venture out of the bounds park during the severe Yellowstone winter when they’re foraging for food for their own survival? They pose no threat. To warrant the killing of an an endangered animal for an ancestral honor is beyond the pale.

    I’ve seen these animals in Yellowstone. They’re magnificent. They’re endangered. The folks who want to kill these animals can get in their pickups and drive to the local store for meat.

  54. Zooey,

    Maybe we should try a new strategy to convince Tea Party-types of the wrongness of their thinking. If they get their water from a public water supply, we should shut it off. Let them dig a well for their water. We should block off the end of their driveway so they can’t drive on public roads. We should put a block on their phones so they can’t call 9-1-1. Prevent them, non-violently, of course, from using any of the Commons they take for granted. There are other things we could do in this vein, too, but the idea is to show them how much their lives are dependent on the Commons. Then explain that if they wish to use the Commons, they have to help pay for it, just like the rest of us.

      • Goodnight, frugal.

        I hope you get very very old, and continue to grace us with your presence at the Zoo for years to come. 🙂

        • Personally, I’m torn on the issue of bison hunting by Native Americans — hence, asking for your thoughts.

          I agree with what everyone has posted so far, which is so very contradictory, but there it is.

          We’ve taken so much from the Native Americans, from their hunting traditions to their very dignity. How can I begrudge them salvaging some small part of that?

          On the other hand, I visited Yellowstone with my men in the summer of 2001, for our most excellent vacation of a lifetime, and was truly moved by the elegant beauty of the bison (and a bazillion elk). Knowing they were brought to the very brink of extinction by people who look very much like me, just because they could, was very humbling.

          Suffice it to say that I feel strongly both ways. 😐

          • Fuck those people, muse. Srsly, fuck them.

            Murder is not legal, and there is no way they can fix things so that it’s okay to kill abortion providers. They never actually say what their real purpose is, but that’s what it is. It’s open season on doctors in this country…as well as on teachers, police, firemen, etc.

          • muse, I’ve never seen Sheen’s show, but he’s just off the rails.

            It seems to me that he’s an addict, and needs intensive treatment. Of course, if he doesn’t recognize a problem, he will never move toward recovery. It’s sad, because he seems to have talent, but he’s destroying himself.

  55. Early sack here too. It’s been a long day, for some odd reason. Maybe if I’d wait till five to get up, grab that extra hour … yeah, right. In my dreams (and probably a wet bed). It’s a bitch to get old.

    Reminds me of an old story about the three old guys in the nursing home …. Maybe later. 😉

  56. But, whomisspoketoday, it’s not like they’re going to go out and kill every last bison in the country. They use as much of the animal as they can and don’t do it strictly for the sake of doing it, like many others would.

  57. Zooey, car salesman conduct psyops on folk looking to buy a car. It’s really no more than trying to manipulate folks to think your way by understanding human behavior and exploiting others weaknesses. Still..the military of all folks should be trying to encourage lawmakers to avoid conflict, not just fund it better.

    • I understand what you’re saying, Outstanding.

      I wonder if our Congress people would be vulnerable to such tactics, and would be so very disappointed if they were. Of course, the military psy-ops people are highly trained to make things work their way, and we are still in Afghanistan…

  58. “Psy-ops”: “Psychological Operations,” basically forms of psychological manipulation that have been “refined” by nominally scientific methods. Against a general population it is probably not much more sophisticated than Madison Avenue advertising stuff.

    But this operation was likely focused down to the individual, which would involve extensive and intensive data mining and personalization of the various manipulators applied from multiple angles and modalities. Particularly if one does not know that this is being done, the effect could be quite disturbing to the individual. Lacking an accurate context to interpret what was going on, the person would be having all of her or his very own buttons pushed repeatedly and from all directions without any sign that someone was responsible for pushing them.

  59. Oh, all of the above is very generic. But likely we’ve all known people who were extremely crafty at manipulating others around them. The techniques of the user’s manipulation are tailored to the individual and the situation.

    • That is deeply creepy, Gary, and to think that our military would use such tactics on our own civilians is horrifying — especially to achieve a goal of remaining in a war zone which was an utter failure.

  60. My son is studying US History. So far, in spite of the use of the term Indians to describe Native Americans, the topic of European exploration of this hemisphere is dealt with rather fairly. He knows the Spanish claimed to want to bring the natives Christianity, but mostly robbed and enslaved them. The French also had their missionaries, but were primarily driven by a desire to trade, and the English ran into a conflict with the natives over ownership of land, otherwise they might have been able to cooperate better. Anyway, the reasons for the long descriptions are:
    1. I spend hours every night on this stuff in hopes he will learn.
    2. He might be learning as he had drawn angry faces all over his Spanish explorer notes, smiley faces on the French ones, and just sort of grumpy faces on the English explorer pages.

  61. “to think that our military would use such tactics on our own civilians is horrifying”

    Also illegal. There is pressure mounting to have the General responsible not only fired but Court Marshalled. It is a direct violation of Posse Commitatus. (The military cannot be used for civilian or criminal control.)

  62. “But this operation was likely focused down to the individual”

    It was indeed. Research on the background of the visitors was compiled prior to their arrival.

  63. G’nite Gary. Sleep well.

    Zooey, my family has been ashamed since we as a nation sacrificed every principle we ever held dear as a nation in order to pursue war against a handful of terrorists. I wanted to believe in the whole “death before dishonor” thing, but my country decided to just go with “dishonor”.

  64. This is from

    Dangerous Intersection Human Animals at the Crossroads:

    More than crossing a line, I wonder if this is a crossing of the Rubicon. Congress is supposed to serve as a check on the ability of the Executive branch to wage war. In this case, the military is expressly seeking to undermine civilian authority by manipulating members of Congress into providing increased funding and troops to fight an increasingly unpopular war.

  65. I’m uncertain if we’ll ever know ‘exactly’ what the psyops manipulations were – ‘top secret’ and ‘national security’ crap will be spewed for not divulging such treachery.

  66. Well I consider it high praise to be confused with Ebb, though she may not wish to be thought a pig.
    I’d best off to bed, at least tomorrow is Friday.

      • I’m just roaming around the web a few more minutes before I head off.

        Julian Assange will be extradited back to Sweden where he will then be extradited back to the US (beings the leader of Sweden just won his election thanks to karl Rove), where he will be sent to Guantanamo and never heard from again. Or, he will be tried and executed on some trumped up charge. I don’t know how they could call it treason beings he isn’t a US citizen, but they’ll find a way.

        So if they send him off to Guantanamo, will they do the same to all the newspapers and publications who also published those secret US State Department and military documents? If we don’t know what our government and military are doing in the dark and in secrecy that is wrong, abhorrent, and goes against what we as a country are supposed to stand for and support, how can we correct those things and get rid of those people?

        I don’t think this is about Assange as much as it will send a very loud chilling message to whistle-blowers everywhere to keep their mouths shut and their heads down. Very mafia-esque. I am a strong believer in truth and transparency, and I strongly support whistleblowers wherever whistles need blowing…

        • muse, I truly believe that if they manage to “disappear” Julian Assange, a poison pill will drop to blow worldwide corruption wide open.

          It’s probably something we need to learn about. It will get us out into the streets.

          Of course, that’s a best case scenario…unless Dancing with the Stars is on…

  67. “…though she may not wish to be thought a pig.”

    Not at all. “Babe” & “Wilbur” are two of my favorite pigs!

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