The Watering Hole: September 24 – Join or Die

Ben Franklin, 1754

Benjamin Franklin, in 1754, used a snake to illustrate a point. He sketched, carved, and published the first known political cartoon in an American newspaper. It was the image of a snake cut into eight sections. The sections represented the individual colonies and the curves of the snake suggested the coastline. New England was combined into one section as the head of the snake. South Carolina was at the tail.

It was a plea for unity in defending the colonies during the French and Indian War. It played off a common superstition of the time: a snake that had been cut into pieces could come back to life if before sunset you joined the sections together.

Later, with the signing of The Declaration of Independence he said "We must all hang together, or assuredly we shall all hang separately."

While separated by more then 20 years, these two sentiments illustrate of the thoughts and sympathies of the founding fathers beyond mere independence.

After the end of the war, a loose Confederacy was founded and the result was a microcosm of the situation in Europe at the same period. The Constitutional Convention (also known as the Philadelphia Convention, the Federal Convention, or the Grand Convention at Philadelphia) was called to rectify this situation. Franklin served as a delegate from Pennsylvania to the convention. The purpose of the convention was to eliminate the legal and trade barriers that existed in the Confederacy. The result was a federation of the 13 states – The United States.

Franklin was a harbinger of this federation. He, along with the other founding fathers, wanted to create a nation with common bonds between its parts. The rights were spelled out for each of the states that made up the federation.

Current feelings of certain groups today seem to say that these objectives for a common bond no longer apply. They try to link their aims as if they were the basis for the Revolution and the Constitutional Convention. They are asking for neither.

This is our Open Thread. What are do you think? The founding fathers want to know!

78 thoughts on “The Watering Hole: September 24 – Join or Die

    • Good morning, ebb and vinylspear.

      Yes, that tell-all article was posted here previously, but it’s definitely worth taking the time to reread and bookmark it. In conjunction with David Brock’s “The Republican Noise Machine”, the article confirms the Republican agenda which so many of us liberals have suspected for a long time.

    • I’m glad you reposted it. I didn’t catch it the first time around. He points out what I’ve observed, as well. Unfortunately, he uses too many big words & concepts. The folks still in the cult aren’t able to comprehend his elucidation.

  1. Walt, great post. What an amazing man Ben Franklin was! Of course, any liberal these days who had the balls to put out the idea of “Join, or Die” would be vilified as promoting the killing of political opponents. (eyes rolling)

    Why does our country no longer have prominent visionaries in the mold of Franklin and the other Founding Fathers?

    • They exist but they are vilified by the media.
      Mr. Franklin also had a strong scientific background and was well educated.

      Palin, Romney, Perry, Paul, all appeal to the Roman circus mentality.
      As long as someone is dying they’re cool with it.
      It’s like there is a certain pride that goes with being dumbed down and telling the world about it.

      it’s called Christianity.

    • Prominent visionaries shake up the Status Quo, hence are silenced, one way or another. It’s amazing Obama was allowed to move forward. But he got as far as the White House. Then he became their whipping boy: “I hope he fails”.

      I recall that someone once remarked that my comments on TP were akin to the writings in the Federalist Papers. But those comments have been lost to posperity due to the “upgrades” at that site, and I did not have them backed up anywhere. Thus chance and circumstance operate to limit my voice to this humble corner of the internets.

      Even here, our voices can easily be silenced, should the corporate powers that be shut down wordpress.

    • Oh there’s a conspiracy all right.
      I think the NRA is buttsore because this administration isn’t romancing them like the former administartion.

      For me to buy a legal firearm I need:
      A legal form of I.D.
      Not a Felon (this can be circumnavigated too)
      Fill out some paperwork.
      For me to become a pilot (which keeps me broke and doesn’t hurt anyonre, usually)
      I must comply with 14 CFR part 61.102 through 14 CFR part 61.217
      I must comply with all of 14 CFR part 91
      After proof of completing approved study courses and passing the tests I then must demonstrate the skill set or no flight certificate.
      I must show compliance of recurrent training and compliance yearly and biennially.
      They also prefer that I not be crazy and be of good moral character but I’ve seen that go out the window once in a while with some pilots.
      I also must undergo an extensive physical examination.
      By this point being a whacked out terrorist is no longer convenient or practical.

    • Thanks House. I was going to post a link to that via C&L. By LaPierre’s “logic”, just because Obama hasn’t killed all of us white folk in his first term doesn’t mean we should be lulled into a false sense of security.

    • Well, you have to admit, Obama is a ni$$er.

      The NRA spent a fortune successfully convincing gun hoarders that Obama needed to be defeated in 2008 or he would take away all their guns and ammo. Gun manufacturers wet their pants in glee as the gullible cleaned all the stock from gun shops.

      Here we are in 2011 and the administration has done zero to take away their guns. Damn. How are we going to sell thousands more? They’re not skeered enough of the Mooslims. A dilemma.

  2. Solyndra Executives Take The 5th At Congressional Hearing

    As expected, executives with the bankrupt solar panel company Solyndra took their Fifth Amendment rights at a hearing on Friday.

    “On the advice of my counsel, I invoke the privilege of the fifth amendment and i respectfully decline to answer any question,” said Brian Harrison, president and CEO of Solyndra.

    So, is the failure of Solyndra a result of green energy technology being uncompetitive, or a white collar crime yet to be fully divulged?

  3. If these protesters were carrying the Gadsden flag and misspelled racist signs, the media would be all over the Wall Street protests. But they aren’t, so apparently it’s not happening.

  4. Remember Cindy Sheehan?

    She got a decent amount of media attention, which seems a bit weird in casual retrospect until one remembers that the MSM concentrated solely on her, not on the larger, general, anti-war protests nor of course on the very sound case of the citizens who publicly opposed the Iraq War/Occupation.

    The MSM completely ignored the Iraq Veterans Against War (even when some were bloodied by NY police in one instance, and little interest was shown in the provably unlawful mass incarceration of over a hundred anti-war protesters in NYC.

    Amazing how the MSM and the authorities view clearly peaceful protests as a threat, yet let the right-wingers bring weapons to some of their events. .


    • (great to be reading you this a.m.)

      …yet let the right-wingers bring weapons to some of their events. .

      Second amendment – second amendment – second amendment
      The First amendment does seem to suffer –
      It’s a little more difficult to police free-thought so they must corral, beat and attempt intimidation on anyone using the First amendment.

    • I’ve met Cindy Sheehan, and flew to D.C. in 2005 to participate in her State of the Union Protest – that’s when she got arrested for wearing a tee shirt that listed the number of American war dead in Iraq.

  5. Alec Baldwin is hosting the season premiere of SNL tonight and considering the recent AFA kerfuffle, I’m hoping for a redux of Schweddy Balls.

  6. I was asked a question and I don’t know how to answer it.

    Why is Israel called a “state” and not referred to as a country?

      • It’s why we’re called the United “States.”

        Outside of the United States, the terms “State” and “Country” are synonymous.

        • I guess that works.
          I was trying find specific definitions.
          The person was asking a good question and I was just as curious.
          For once I could say “that’s a good question” and mean it.

  7. Franklin was his own MSM of the day…so he could foment change from without and within! Our Founding Fathers were great thinkers and doers.

    • We’ve gone from “freedom of the press” to “controlled by the press.”

      The ruling class controlls the media, the press, which then influences low information voters, turning them into misinformation voters, who then vote to advance the power and position of the ruling class.

  8. Outstanding and all the east coast inhabitants of theZoo – is this affecting you?
    Sounds damn nasty – after Irene and the TS. Do hope Mother Nature finally gives you folk a chance to dry out before the snow.

    Big East Rain, Flooding Unfold through Saturday

    • We had a lot of rain yesterday, today is lovely. No flooding problems in VA, that I know of, but it’s been hard to make hay and clear up flower beds. I was glad we had no rain at market this morning so my son was happy to go. He’s sold, with mom’s help, almost 400 lbs of pork these past two months.

            • Vaguely – it been decades vinyl. I went to high school with Mary Bumb (her dad a/o uncle founded SJ Fleamarket).

              How’s that for an oxymoron — the Bumb’s are millionaires!

            • When I lived in North Portland some years back, we had a door-to-door bee guy. Very sweet man (heh) who walked the neighborhoods with a bucket full of honey quarts and, sometimes, beeswax candles. You couldn’t find a harder working man, but he just couldn’t make enough money. In my case, I loved his honey but how much can anyone eat?

              The candles were awesome.

          • 20-odd years ago, when I worked for the local civil engineer, one of our customers was a beekeeper. He told me that he used bee stings to help his arthritic knees. Made the best honey I’ve ever tasted, luckily he gave us some as a parting gift when we finished his project.

        • Absolutely! He’s also becoming quite social, I heard him discussing bees with a total stranger this morning. His salesmanship still needs some work, but it’s great seeing him interact with folks. Today he met a lovely Guatemalan family by marching right up, asking where they were from, and then declaring “That’s my country!”

    • We had steady rain, sometimes downpours, all of yesterday, today is overcast/some light occasional drizzle. Just checked, it looks like showers and scattered thunderstorms all the way through Thursday. Damn – at work we have to give a week’s notice to take a vacation day, and, after checking the 10-day forecast, I decided to take this coming Monday off ’cause it looked like it would be at least partially clear. Now Monday shows 81 degrees and scattered thunderstorms – so much for working outside!

      My area doesn’t get terribly flooded, but a little further south definitely does.

  9. Crazy Shelly never fails to entertain.

    In a letter posted to her congressional website Thursday, Bachmann accused the administration of allowing the tech company LightSquared to “put millions of Americans in harm’s way” by activating a wireless signal that will jam global positioning systems, which would affect both civilian and military operations.

    In fact, the Federal Communications Commission has blocked the company, LightSquared, from operating in the wireless spectrum until it resolves the interference issue.

    Bachmann charges that LightSquared is benefiting from “crony capitalism” because one of its top investors, Phil Falcone, donated to Democratic campaigns. She suggests that the billionaire’s political largesse is the reason that the FCC recently granted a waiver allowing LightSquared to accept contracts from communications companies interested in using its innovative satellite and land-based broadband network.

    Yeah, but Falcone is a registered Republican and 2/3rds of his contributions were to Repubs. And the original permit was granted by the Bush era FCC.

    • I’m always curious to know if Bachmann actually reads what her handlers give her AND she changes it to suit the ‘occasion’ (hate-filled twisted logic) OR she actually has the total misinterpretation because her synapses just don’t correctly.

      • At this point, I have to believe that her handlers are just as stupid, hateful and ignorant as Bachmann. Either that, or she has them cowed like Palin had her family and everyone else.

        • I think it’s the former, gummitch. Maybe it has happened and I missed/forgot it, but I don’t remember any of her handlers coming out and backtracking any of Batshit’s dozens and dozens of idiocies.

          I’m too lazy to check, but wasn’t it Ed Rollins who quit being Batshit’s campaign manager? If so, i guess he was too reality-based to keep going, although he pleaded ‘health issues.’

      • I heard Ed Rollins talking about Crazy Shelly last week, I think. Maybe the week before and he said that she reads about 2/3s of something and then doesn’t read the rest of it and jumps to conclusions only based on the part she did read. He said it was frustrating.

  10. From today’s Daily Kos Hate Mail, this little gem:

    You are some of the sickest people on earth and guess what idiot morons fascists are left wing. They all are and have always been. But why would you know that. I have never met an intelligent liberal in my life. Or one who was not an arrogant conceited ass who did not deserve to be hit over the head with a brick and dropped into the ocean.

    This knowledge font could well qualify to become one of Ick Perry’s ‘handlers.’ Is that the word?

    • I read comments like this all the time frugal, in our local paper and on the Washington Post’s website. I have met intelligent conservatives, people who I could respect even though we disagreed on some things. I have no idea how to deal with the new crop and find the way they view me, and anyone different from themselves, increasingly difficult to live with.

  11. If you had any doubts after the last 2 GOP debates held in Florida that the state isn’t certifiable, the results from today’s straw poll have Herman Cain with 37%, far outdistancing 2nd place Rick Perry with 15%.

    Her. Man. Cain.

    Floridians tried to redeem themselves though putting Bachmann in last place with 1.5%.

  12. Fox News/Google Debate Most-Watched GOP Primary Debate Yet

    Debate—-Network—–Total Viewers—-A25-54
    Sept. 22–Fox News—–6,107,000——1,701,000
    Sept. 12–CNN———–3,600,000——1,100,000
    Sept. 7—-MSNBC——-5,411,000——1,728,000
    Aug. 11—Fox News—–5,053,000——1,430,000
    June 13—CNN———–3,162,000——–918,000
    May 5—–Fox News—–3,258,000——–854,000

    Even though Fox had more viewers on September 22, the MSNBC debate numbers reflect viewers who watched in spite of the nearly 2.8 million who watched O’Reilly instead of the September 7 debate. MSNBC still led in the key demographic, head to head. Either way, it’s sweet that the upshot of more Republicans watching these debates is the inevitability that what they have to offer is all damaged goods.

  13. I listened to Mike Papantonio this morning an heard a pretty interesting statistic. It seems that 40% of the American public thinks that they are in the upper 1% of income earners in the country. And 56 % of Americans think that they will be a millionaire or billionaire someday. This includes retired people that are living entirely on Social Security.

    The truth is that very few Americans ever reach millionaire status.

    There used to be the term the “idle rich” that were vilified for lounging around the pool. Now they are “celebrated” as one of us.

    No wonder that the Republicans can convince them to vote against their own best interests and “work a little harder” so the rich can get their tax breaks. That’s some PR that the trust fund babies have.

    I blame reality TV starting with “lifestyles of the rich and famous” back in the 80’s.

  14. dang – there are two or three comments in ‘da bin’.

    Please rescue just one – thanks.

    Seems there may be some links WP doesn’t like.

  15. “Perry is appearing less capable of telling them the lies that they want to hear and Mitt Romney is telling them every lie that they want to hear, but they know he is lying.” Anon

  16. Hi, all!

    I’m home after a lovely day with nwmuse and her hubby. We visited the Yaquina Head lighthouse, and saw whales in the heavy surf — what a treat! Just finished a wonderful dinner at the Blackfish Cafe. All in all a great day with amazing people. 🙂

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